[mcgsxr]

I have been using my Bolder modded SB3 via the analog outputs directly into my amp for years now, and happy with it.

I notice others posting about using DAC's via the digital output, with their streaming music devices.

One of the reasons I like the unit I have, is that it is my source/DAC/pre.

For those out there using a DAC - are any of you not using a pre?

I like the digital volume control, and simplicity of the modded SB3, but am interested to learn of the approaches of others.

[roscoeiii]

I'm not familiar with the Bolder mods to the SB3, but in general you are losing digital information when using a digital volume control, particularly at low volumes.

There are some DACs that have an analog volume control to better serve as a pre. The Beresford DACs come to mind (they also can accomodate up to 4 digital sources), but there are others as well.

From my experience, a good active pre (Musical Fidelity kW) made a big improvement in my system's sound, but others swear by bypassing a pre if possible. As in most audio things, I think it can be chalked up the mysteries of system synergy and personal preference. I'd recommend playing around with various combinations of components if possible to see what brings you closest to the type of sound you prefer on the music you listen to.

[ecramer]

As  a general observation of listening to various systems using digital sources i tend to favor the one's with a pre-amp  as to my ear they gain that little more in dynamics. I noticed it quite a bit out at RMAF this year YMMV and this is in no way an opinoun from extensive listening but rather an observation and several conversations i had with some people at RMAF and various other get togethers

ED

[roscoeiii]

I agree on the pre and dynamics. to put it in more technical language, an active pre gives a little more oomph. The trick is finding an active pre that  gives that oomph without sacrificing detail that you get from no pre or a passive pre.

[mcgsxr]

Good points so far - for me, in this iteration of my system, I sold off DAC, pre etc, as the Bolder SB3 sounds great straight into the amps.  I am not looking to make a change per se, I am trying to understand those who use a DAC and a streaming music device, but no pre.  I had not thought of if the DAC includes a volume control, either remote or physical - good point about those.

The SB3 can change the volume from the analog or digital outputs - so in theory you could connect a DAC, and use the digital volume control from the SB3 - anyone doing that?

As for bit loss, and the digital volume control in the SB3, I have seen lots of threads on that, and the consensus relates to volume - in my system, with the modded unit outputting only 1v, I am usually running 60-90 of 100 steps on the volume control.  As I recall, if you get below 30, you are dropping bits, using an SB3.

My system is dynamic enough for me in my room, the drivers are very efficient, so even with just 3-5wpc, it makes plenty of volume in the big basement space.

[drphoto]

Yes, you can control the volume w/ SB3 running through an external DAC. I tried it. However I quickly went back to my Tempest pre, as my SB3 is stock and I get much better sound from my transport, or even from my cheap DVD player via optical out to the DAC, requiring some sort of volume attenuation.

I'm strongly considering the Sonic Euphoria autotransformer passive pre. Solves the problem of loss of dynamics of resistor based units. However, I gotta' put a hold on audio purchases for the time being.

[gitarretyp]

I use a SB and DAC with no preamp and am quite happy with the setup. I found an external DAC to have significantly improved dynamics and detail as compared to the modded SB's analog output. As long as your DAC has sufficient output capabilities to drive your amp (all four of the DACs I've had in my system have never had any trouble), it should work well sans preamp. I've tried a couple of preamps between the DAC and amp and always noticed degraded sound.

One caveat, the digital volume control does introduce some oddness with the NOS DACs I've tried. Otherwise, I've found the digital volume to be relatively transparent.

[JLM]

I run transport/DAC with Scott Endler attenuators (the standard 4 dB steps) between analog interconnects and my monoblocks.  Not as convenient, but no loss of bits either.  For passives, this is the place to put the attenuation to keep the high frequencies from being lost/dampened.

[ctviggen]

I have a Bolder modified SB that I used to run through a Proceed preamp into my speakers. I then took the Proceed pre out of this system, but the SB lost a lot in my opinion.  One thing it lost was volume -- I can turn the SB all the way up and it's still not loud enough.  It also seemed to lose dynamics, but this could be because it doesn't have the volume.  I purchase a buffer to put in between the SB and my amps, to get back some of the lost volume.  I haven't used this yet, so can't comment on it (my room is under construction/reconstruction).

[konut]

I have eschewed preamps for 15 years. During that time I have used a Creek OBH-12 remote passive attenuator, which is now discontinued. Different sources have different output. I use a Red Wine modded SB3. At first I used the analog outs which had enough drive for the amps I was using, which had a gain of 28db, and a sensitivity, for full output, of 1.5 volts. I then switched to the digital out because I got a Bryston BDA-1 DAC and AV123 X-Amps that have a gain of 36db. The point I am trying to make is that without a preamp it is much more important to make sure that the components from source to speakers are compatible from the standpoint that  the output of one must couple to the input of the next in such a way that the ultimate result is satisfactory. Why not just use a preamp? Because anything short of a $3k-$4k unit will add noise and distortion. To quote Henny Youngman, "Don't DO that!". 

[TomW16]

You can go without an active preamp but you must do your homework to ensure that the other components will play together nicely.  As konut mentions, drive is one aspect but also watching impedences is also important.

I have heard that using digital volume can throw away bits.  I haven't tried it but it seems counter intuitive to good sound.

Cheers,
Tom