[topround]

Found this on the gon

http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1207598730

looks just like sp tech

[JoshK]

amphion has been around a while.  Not sure who came first, not sure that matters.  Amphion is based out of Scandanavia (Finland maybe?) and first went after that market and then expanded here as I know it.

[Aether Audio]

Mike,

Fear not... looks can be deceiving.  Although I will admit that they look similar, there are a couple of major differences.  First, they use an aluminum dome tweeter.   Second, their waveguide is broken. Oh wait a minute, that's right... it can't be broken.  It never worked correctly to begin with.

OK... let's put it in more succinct terms.  Thankfully... they never optimized their waveguide to extract the full potential waveguides have to offer.  That probably because they don't know my secret. aa

-Bob

[AJinFLA]

First, they use an aluminum dome tweeter.   Second, their waveguide is broken. Oh wait a minute, that's right... it can't be broken.  It never worked correctly to begin with.

Bob, your speakers should (and do) stand on their own merit. Those sort of statements about competitors are silly. What is "shake head" with aluminum domes? How has their waveguide "never worked correctly to begin with"?

OK... let's put it in more succinct terms.  Thankfully... they never optimized their waveguide to extract the full potential waveguides have to offer. 

Why don't you put it in factual, measured data terms so that we have some evidence of what you are claiming? I would certainly be interested in seeing what you have measured from that brand that is causing these type of comments. Please share.

cheers,

AJ

[opaqueice]

amphion has been around a while.  Not sure who came first, not sure that matters.

Amphion has been selling speakers like that since at least 1999. 

Dunno about SP Tech - 2003, maybe?

[Aether Audio]

AJ,

Lighten up my friend, it was just a joke.  That's why I used the laughing emoticon.  But... fair enough questions none the less.  Should have known I couldn't leave it at that.  My bad.

OK...pure opinion here - haven't done the quantitative analysis to back it up.  Nevertheless... I've NEVER heard an aluminum dome dome that I liked.  Why?  Probably because of their "oil can" resonance right above 20KHz.  Virtually all of them have so much mass that the driver designers are barely able to push that huge, high "Q' resonant peak up out of the pass band.  So what, it's stilll beyond audibility - right?  Yep.  But the sub 20KHz intermod products that result from the beating of that resonance with audible band tones sounds like crap - clearly audible IMHO.  You (the system designer) can't put a high enough order filter above 20KHz to knock that resonance down either - to complicated, too sensitive to component tolerances and too many parts.  A lower order filter would just roll off the top end.  You're screwed.  You live with the ringing and the resulting IMD and hope nobody can hear the difference. 

Fact here:  Check Amphion's frequency response.  Look for the dip at crossover.  Most likely their tweeter/waveguide's roll-off slope before any filters are applied is 3rd order.   Can't use a simple first order electrical in series to achieve a 4th order alignment to net the resulting ideal "in phase" summing with the woofer.  Why?  Not enough protection for the tweeter.  Could use a 1st order higher up but then that would raise the crossover frequency too high.  That would then waste most of the waveguide's advantage.  Could use a series 3rd order electrical to achieve an acoustical 6th, but that's a bit sensitive to component values - the production engineer would hate your guts - and has more parts/costs more anyway. 

Whaddaya do?  Get funky with some screwed up "Q" version of a 2nd order electrical to try and minimize the dip in the response and then live with whatever dip that remains.  If only their waveguide had more acoustic gain at the low end such that they started out with a 2nd order roll-off.  Then they'd get perfect phase summing with the woofer like we do.  Too bad.  There are so many possible variations to the waveguide you go nuts trying to find the right combination.  Close enough is close enough.  Get on with production and start making $$$.

Then check out their crossover frequencies.  Anywhere near 600-700-800 Hz? Nope.  They're lucky to hit 1KHz.  Why? re-read previous 2 paragraphs.  Then...

Thankfully... they never optimized their waveguide to extract the full potential waveguides have to offer.

Why not?

That probably because they don't know my secret. aa

So...there's my argument.  Not as flippant as you might have thought, eh?   I always have a reason.  I just may not give it out right at first.

Thanks and take care,
-Bob

[2bigears]

  Bob,for gosh sakes man,get off that dam computer and send those Revs north please.... it's -40* up here  and we need some sweet tunes !!!!!  i don't want to hear how warm it is down there either.... 

[Aether Audio]

Pat,

Hey...give me a break.  A guy has to go in the office to get warmed up once in a while.  Besides...did you check your e-mail today. aa

-Bob

[2bigears]

   Bob,just giving you a hard time,what are good customers for ????  take it easy my friend is what i really was saying,feet-up for once a crack a cool one,stay warm.waiting for those speakers to crack the border,phone ya tomorrow on the shipping thing.

[Double Ugly]

Are you in hiding, Pat?  I just called, but was told you aren't home. 

Are you stuck in a snow drift, maybe riding someone's unsecured WiFi and cruising AC while waiting for the tow truck to arrive?   

[2bigears]

   hey Jim,you be nice,did you read our current temp,frick is it cold .how's things down there these days ???? what's up in your audio world these days ????

[Double Ugly]

Ah, you know I'm only kidding, my friend. 

Yeah, I saw the temp.  Aside from Scandinavia (where the women are *amazing*), I've always wondered why someone would want to live in a place that cold.

Not saying you do, but from where I'm sitting (at a cold-for-here 43*F), it seems like a valid question. 

Not much new on the audio front.  Spoke with Bob today about getting the Mundorf treatment for my Timepieces, so that'll be nice!  aa

It sounds like you may be in for a treat soon.  You have an amp for 'em yet?

[2bigears]

   Jim,i got a SM DNA-500 off Joe M. here on AC.I can't say much bout it till the Rev's hit the air waves.F-18 pilots like this cold as more hp from the turbines.More G's = more fun  You need to tell us more bout these Scandy females 

[Double Ugly]

  Jim,i got a SM DNA-500 off Joe M. here on AC.

That's right... should've remembered. 

I can't say much bout it till the Rev's hit the air waves.

True 'nuff. 

I hope you'll post something about the pairing after you've spent a few weeks with them.  Ted really likes his with the Revs, but he has the super-duper crossovers.  It'll be interesting to know what you think of it with the standard crossovers.

F-18 pilots like this cold as more hp from the turbines.

I have no doubt! 

More G's = more fun 

Hmmm... then they must be awfully young.  The veracity of that equation is highly debatable IM(old)HO.

You need to tell us more bout these Scandy females 

Unfortunately, my first-hand experience is limited to family members and girlfriends of Dane, Swiss and Norwegian chaps with whom I flew. 

Even so, they were all knockouts, each and every one.  Even their mothers were nice looking (most of 'em, anyway), and flipping through their family photos was akin to looking through a modeling magazine.

Not that I've ever done that.