[2bigears]

  mr big, calm down man. Price and value are not the same. This little amp for the $$ is serious. I hope it works for a long time and only time will tell.  It really sounds well past the price powering my D-48's.  Some people !   

[catluck]

Genjamon and 2BigEars make important points, do they not? Look at reviews of amps/speaks by the Late, Great Art Dudley, Herb Reichert, John Atkinson, etc., etc., and these folks almost always try the gear under review, again, typically amps or speaks, with various amps and speakers looking for synergy.  Often various combinations prove more musical than others.  Genjamon's point is, therefore, taken seriously by, and the regular practice of, professional reviewers.  Also, I know from personal experience that any given amp/speaker combination may or may not be as musical. The MiniGans with M3's seem to possess that synergy I've been looking for for so long.  Not as much synergy with the Merlins upstairs but still enough that my tube gear sits dormant bested by the MiniGans. So listening to one amp or another, without actually "tasting" the MiniGans does not constitute, and cannot be, a relevant statement concerning the MiniGans. Obsession over price may satisfy those who otherwise have difficulty discerning value.

[jnschneyer]

One of the things I've really enjoyed about this forum is how infrequently, practically never since I've been participating in it, it degenerates into ad hominem attacks or patronizing or sarcastic comments, so it's disappointing to see this discussion begin to deteriorate into squabbling.  All it takes is one to say something bordering on the personally insulting to change the tenor of a conversation, and, potentially, the site generally.  Even if you strongly disagree with another's comment, or feel a judgement is being passed without sufficient or credible supporting information, much more is gained by respectfully making your case than by being snide or sarcastic.  One, you're much more likely to get a sensible response, possibly even a concession, and, two, it keeps the debate palatable for others on the site looking for information and not an argument.  I'm not being Miss Manners here (though I could be worse), or trying to come to anyone's defense or take a position in this debate - I'm aware we're all adults and can fend for ourselves - but I do love coming here to read the varying viewpoints and decide for myself who's opinion in a given discussion I find worth attending to.  The bickering is just that, bickering, not informative or entertaining.  I know I sound like I'm scolding, which probably isn't much help either, but I'm just disappointed to see even a hint of the tone that's turned me off reading at least two other hifi forums, and I just hate to see it. 

On a related side-note, I've got one of the Orchard Audio GaN amps that's been making the rounds coming my way in a couple of days.  Right now I own a Don Sachs Valhalla integrated amp, which replaced my Classe SSP-800 pre-pro and CA-2300 amp, powering a pair of X5s.  I'm really curious to see where I'll fall in this discussion.

[Charles Xavier]

Plus 2 on the Orchard Audio owner

[catluck]

jnscheyer - while I wholeheartedly agree that ad hominem attacks typically demonstrate an unwillingness and/or inability to counter another's position and are rarely designed to instigate thoughtful conversation, sometimes a harmless jab spices up the conversation a bit.  A little controversy can be fun to follow.  Further, the threads above do seem to expound a truism worth noting and taking to heart - one ought to be very careful about expressing an opinion on a subject about which one is wholly ignorant.  I am utterly astonished at how often I hear opinions expressed and when I inquire about the factual basis for the opinion, well, nothing there.  I think that's worth noting and pointing out.  Otherwise how to keep a conversation honest? In any event, a little controversy keeps the fans watching. In truth, I don't suppose anybody here really means to insult another member but, rather, to make a fair point.  That's all I've seen here. If you disagree I'm OK with that! 

[RonN5]

Unfortunately, people often state their preferences as absolutes and then defend them as truths.

[MttBsh]

Yes, the French like to say "vive les differences" meaning celebrate the differences. We could all benefit from accepting that others have and always will view things differently from us, what a boring world it would be if everyone agreed on everything. I've gotten pissed off a couple of times over the years here too, but this isn't politics, it's a hobby for crying out loud   disagree tactfully and maintain a sense of humor and all will go well. End of speech.

[Phil A]

Yes, the French like to say "vive les differences" meaning celebrate the differences. We could all benefit from accepting that others have and always will view things differently from us, what a boring world it would be if everyone agreed on everything. I've gotten pissed off a couple of times over the years here too, but this isn't politics, it's a hobby for crying out loud   disagree tactfully and maintain a sense of humor and all will go well. End of speech.

Well said.  That's why I just linked another thread about the amplifier.  There are varying opinions on the amplifier within the thread.  I'm here to absorb information and give whatever information is relevant to a question posed.  An adult can look at what is said about the amplifier and reach their own conclusions.  I tend to stay away from various subjects to avoid some of the stuff which goes on.  In avoiding these things that doesn't mean I agree or disagree with anything.  I've been in the hobby for 45+ years (since I was 5 years old of course ) and have had separates for about 43 of those years.  Whatever anyone wants to do or believe is fine with me.  The internet has positive and negatives.  It allows lots of information at our fingertips but also leaves room for lots of misinformation.  I enjoy my systems and everyone is entitled to enjoy theirs based on their own preference and beliefs.

[Mr. Big]

Correct we all have to our ear which sounds right for us/me. I have zip-against-class D amps if you like them that is what is important, but when one says I've never heard them; I have over the many years. Always staying open-minded because I love to have an amp at my age that does not weigh 100 lbs plus. But they all have a common sound which is not my cup of tea, but that means others cannot enjoy them, by no means have I said that. Many absolutely love the Benchmark AHB2 amp, I don't does that mean they cannot, no of course not, many owners say it is the most transparent amp they have ever used, and class D amps are included in that assessment, but lovers of them say they are. So again each ear is drawn to a sound they enjoy.

So if you own them and enjoy them that is great and because I feel that I don't enjoy them as much should get any feathers into an uproar.

I think also this site/group here was for Spatial Audio speakers, with so much feedback on the Gain amps they should be in an amplifier discussion area where others might weigh in more and be helpful in their feedback. I grew up on tube gear which is my core, I no longer use tube gear but SS sounds great, do I miss tubes at times, I do, do I miss the cost nowadays of retubing amps and preamps, nope. So SS. for me but you would never hear me say is that much better, they are both different, and some tube gear today is voiced to sound more like SS than tube gear.

[RonN5]

From what my musician friends tell me, you can have 3 violinists on a stage with each playing the same brand of violin and the same tune and they will sound different from each other.

Which one is correct?

Answer…. The one you prefer.

It’s ok if I prefer class d and you prefer class a… what is interesting is what are we each hearing or not hearing that relates to our preferences.

[genjamon]

Cheap, Cheap, Cheap. This is what the value is for this amp. If interested go for it.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649943581-mini-gan-5-class-d-amplifier/

I read that to say that the only value of the amp is it’s cheapness. Not its sound quality, size, or other attributes. This is more than a statement that you personally don’t like the sound, but that sound quality simply is not a virtue of the amp period. You may have heard other class D amps, and one of them was a high priced GAN amp by Merrill, but all class D amps don’t sound the same, just like all class A or A/B SS amps don’t sound the same, just like there’s a wide variety of sonics to be found with tube amps, even using the same tube complements. Accordingly, I (respectfully now, for those concerned about decorum) submit that anyone who has not heard the amp cannot credibly speak to its virtues in terms of sound quality.

[Mr. Big]

Having owned 20 or so amps over 35-plus years I've heard plenty of amps, by major manufacturers of high-end audio. Some I liked more than others and those that were not my cup of tea are still in business and doing well, so I am the only one who won't make or break a company that is for sure because I did not buy it nor keep it, reviewers have that power I am just in the hobby for enjoyment.   

My favorite speaker for pure reproduction is Quads, but I traded that off for a speaker I could also enjoy and be able to rock out or push with no fear of damaging the speaker, and for change's sake, though most of the time I don't play the M3 any louder than I did the Quads ESL 63's. Clayton was great to speak with and was upfront about my gains and losses going from Quads. Great guy making a solid speaker that sounds good.

So I fully understand you have to compromise at times. So far, I have not been able to do that with the Class D I have heard. But perhaps one day.

[franSSS]

I agree with the idea of being decent.

What is not decent is belittling a product any individual person has not heard in person and feeling superior because we keep other gear.

From time to time, we do well to do a reality check. Someone's stone is another man's Diamond.

[jnschneyer]

jnscheyer - while I wholeheartedly agree that ad hominem attacks typically demonstrate an unwillingness and/or inability to counter another's position and are rarely designed to instigate thoughtful conversation, sometimes a harmless jab spices up the conversation a bit.  A little controversy can be fun to follow.  Further, the threads above do seem to expound a truism worth noting and taking to heart - one ought to be very careful about expressing an opinion on a subject about which one is wholly ignorant.  I am utterly astonished at how often I hear opinions expressed and when I inquire about the factual basis for the opinion, well, nothing there.  I think that's worth noting and pointing out.  Otherwise how to keep a conversation honest? In any event, a little controversy keeps the fans watching. In truth, I don't suppose anybody here really means to insult another member but, rather, to make a fair point.  That's all I've seen here. If you disagree I'm OK with that!

Hi, Catluck,

I'm completely sympathetic to your astonishment at how often some, many, people express with great confidence opinions on which they know virtually nothing.  It is both astonishing and, sadly, so endemic to, well, everything, that it shouldn't be astonishing at all, or at least not surprising.  I'm also sympathetic to feeling goaded into snarkiness by even the perception of such an unfounded opinion being expressed.  My dismay was at seeing even the infant stages of the personal squabbling that permeates so many other hifi forums (so many other forums generally, but save that for, with any luck, never).  I suspect the folks on this forum, however goaded they might feel, would abandon an argument as a bad job before it got completely out of hand and polluted the forum entirely.  I think there are ways of keeping the conversation honest without throwing jabs of any kind.  Coincidentally, I'm in the business of throwing literal jabs, and they are never harmless, always have a purpose, and that purpose is to wound.  But I get that people feel differently about these things, and can readily see how someone could feel that another's perhaps overbearing or dismissive comment warrants a rebuke.  I guess it's a matter of how one delivers that rebuke, or how it's received, that determines whether or not things will devolve into cattiness or stay on point.  Also, in this case, to be fair, it isn't accurate to say the poster is wholly ignorant about the subject.  He may not have experience of this particular amp, but, taking him at his word, he has extensive experience with hifi gear generally, some with this topology, and enough to speak generally to the typical relation of cost to quality.  No doubt, sometimes expensive is not good and, conversely, inexpensive can be surprisingly good, and clearly some feel this is one of those times.  But it is not the norm.  Typically, allowing for diminishing returns as you go up, to bring in another truism, you get what you pay for.  So saying he's wholly ignorant isn't true.  Could he have expressed himself better?  I think so.  But pointing out a flaw in an argument and proposing a better one is different than simply jabbing someone, albeit more time consuming and perhaps less gratifying.  I don't mean to make an aria about this - I think you're right, that it's unlikely anyone on here means to straight-up insult anyone else - but, to me, the controversy you speak of, is repellent, not entertaining or instructive, both of which are what I come here for.  I'm all for debate, even spirited, passionate debate.  I just like it to be about the object or subject in question, and not about the person making the argument.  But I'm fully cognizant that I'm only one reader and contributor among very many.  I offer my own take with the customary grain of salt.  In any case, I appreciate your civil reply.  I suspect we're much more in agreement than disagreement.  Until next time.       

[Tyson]

If anyone is interested in my modded MiniGan I am selling it.  Will post an ad here on AC soon.

[catluck]

Jn- here's, perhaps, the major difference in our positions: I accord virtually no weight or deference to someone expressing an opinion about a matter concerning which they're largely, if not wholly, ignorant.  But, if you haven't heard a piece of kit, you're not "largely" but, rather, "wholly," ignorant IMO about the piece  and its sonic merit. For instance, if I asked a person, "well, what did that piece sound like to you?"  They would/could have no credible, i.e., informed, response if they hadn't actually heard the piece. Not some other gear, not something kinda' like it..., but the gear in question.  And, to the greater point, if I hadn't actually experienced a piece of gear I certainly wouldn't discount, diminish, or otherwise disparage the gear even if only implicitly or circumspectly. No big deal though. 

[Phil A]

  They would/could have no credible, i.e., informed, response if they hadn't actually heard the piece.

Exactly, that's why on the first page I linked the thread from my review of it and I noted in the review "So I'm going to give my take about the mini-GaN amp from actually listening to it."  In any profession or hobby, there are people who hold themselves out as experts but are not.  While we all may have opinions about ourselves on certain subjects that have bias merely due to the fact we see ourselves differently than others do, it is never a good position that something isn't good based on hearsay.  Hearsay is something that is not considered an absolute fact in a court of law or what someone believes or relies on from a source of inadequate information where something is not even listened to.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

The title to the thread where I posted my review was "Has anyone heard a Class D Audio "Mini Gan 5" amp?"  So the original poster was looking read about opinions from people who heard the amp and looking for positive or negative feedback from actual hands on experience.  I would never post a response if a question was asked 'has anyone ever measured the mini-Gan amp to see if it meets their published specifications' as I have nothing to offer (and that's overlooking the fact that the place cited had a problem getting readings from the amp and then magically did and I noted in my review about the case being magnetic and in another thread noted that property can cause anomalies with an oscillascope, which are basics).  If I have nothing to offer based on the question posted, regardless of my opinion, I don't comment.  I wouldn't want to turn anyone into me (a semi-crazy audiophile and I have friends who are not audiophiles and when I help them it is according to their preferences and budget - not mine).  There appears that there are many people who just feel the need to impose their preferences.  Some people may like tubes, solid state, single driver speakers, etc., and that's OK.  Everyone is entitled to their preferences.

[Early B.]

Jn- here's, perhaps, the major difference in our positions: I accord virtually no weight or deference to someone expressing an opinion about a matter concerning which they're largely, if not wholly, ignorant.  But, if you haven't heard a piece of kit, you're not "largely" but, rather, "wholly," ignorant IMO about the piece and its sonic merit. 

Just because someone has heard a component doesn't put them in a position to disregard comments from those who haven't heard it. There are many other factors to consider beyond a few people's perceptions of a component's sonic merits such as price, build quality, alternatives (other similar components in the price range), customer service, parts availability, brand, designer, appearance, size, weight, features, specs, manufacturer's location, measurements, professional vs. customer reviews, seller's reputation, spousal acceptance, associated costs (i.e., cables), etc.

For instance, parts quality can tell you a lot about how a component will sound. Cheap parts = cheap sound ---> there's no way around it. What differentiates "high-end audio" from enthusiast gear is parts quality (assuming both are designed well), so that's a worthy discussion with any piece of gear. Anyone knowledgeable on parts quality should be encouraged to add their perspective, even if they haven't heard the component. In fact, the level of build quality can dissuade someone from wanting to hear or demo a component and there's nothing wrong with discussing that, too. 

[Daryl Zero]

Just in my experience in working with the Mini GaN 5, I found it to do well with some speakers and not so much with other speakers. Many variables.

[catluck]

Early B - the quote you reply to specifically notes its concern with and about "sonic merit." PERIOD.  I don't care about any of the considerations you mention unless and until I find sonic merit. Then, and only then, do I consider other factors.  I don't buy gear because I like it's looks or construction quality or whatever... What is so difficult about understanding that a person has no useful opinion about a piece of gear he/she hasn't heard when "sonic merit" is the subject matter of the conversation?

You're entitled to your opinion that "cheap parts = cheap sound" whatever "cheap sound" is.  But, at a minimum, unless/until you LISTEN to gear, you have NO USEFUL OPINION on the gear's sonic merit, i.e., sound quality, regardless of its price, build quality, alternatives, etc.   Particularly is this true when confronting a new technology.