[HT1278]

I have Encore X-LS Front Speakers, a X-CS center, and X-On Wall for rear speakers. 

I would like to try some Atmos height speakers.  I see that the Emotiva's have a ribbon tweeter, not sure if there are any glaring issues that would stop them from integrating well with the GR Research speakers for home theater purposes.  I will be using a Denon receiver with Audissey.

I did notice the Emotiva speakers are 4 Ohm, not sure if that "matters" or stops from integrating well with the other 5 GR X Series GR Research speakers?  The AVR is a Denon AVR-X2700H.

Specs & Downloads
General
Configuration: Two way wall or ceiling mounted surround or height channel loudspeaker.

Cabinet tuning: Sealed.

Driver Complement
High frequency driver: 32 mm Airmotiv folded ribbon tweeter.

Low frequency driver: 5-1/4 inch woven fiber cone.

Electrical Specifications
Efficiency: 85 dB (2.83V/1m).

Power handling: 80W continuous / 150W peak.

Nominal impedance: 4 ohms.

Frequency response: 70 Hz – 28 kHz (+3/-3 dB).

Mechanical
Dimensions: 12-1/2 inches high x 7 inches wide x 8-1/2 inches deep.

Weight: 8.8 pounds (unboxed). 


Emotiva Airmotiv A2+ on Wall speakers.  Link Below:

Specs & Downloads
General
Configuration: Two way wall or ceiling mounted surround or height channel loudspeaker.

Cabinet tuning: Sealed.

Driver Complement
High frequency driver: 32 mm Airmotiv folded ribbon tweeter.

Low frequency driver: 5-1/4 inch woven fiber cone.

Electrical Specifications
Efficiency: 85 dB (2.83V/1m).

Power handling: 80W continuous / 150W peak.

Nominal impedance: 4 ohms.

Frequency response: 70 Hz – 28 kHz (+3/-3 dB).

Mechanical
Dimensions: 12-1/2 inches high x 7 inches wide x 8-1/2 inches deep.

Weight: 8.8 pounds (unboxed).


https://emotiva.com/products/airmotiv-a2-pair-height-surround-ceiling-speaker

[Danny Richie]

Use the X-On Walls for those positions as well. They are ideal for it.

[HT1278]

Thank you Danny!  Is it OK if I they direct fire at me, or for the X-On Walls even when used as Atmos elevation speakers?  If so not sure how many feet from where I sit to watch/listen to a movie.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Thank you Danny!  Is it OK if I they direct fire at me, or for the X-On Walls even when used as Atmos elevation speakers?  If so not sure how many feet from where I sit to watch/listen to a movie.

They should not be pointed at you. They are voiced to take into account the wall/ceiling reflection. If you point them at you, the tweeter will be a lot louder than the woofer.

They should be on the wall pointed at the ceiling or on the ceiling pointed at thr wall, and mounted about 20" from the wall/ceiling it's facing

[OrangeAgent]

If you already have X on wall for your surround speakers, I would put the Atmos speakers in the ceiling, and frankly just do the front Atmos location. I have 4 atmos speakers in my ceiling fairly close to the dolby recommended pattern, and there are times that I wish I had my rear surrounds lower to allow for more distinction between the rear bed channel sounds and Atmos. I think I have the rears about 2' above ear level, and I think I will end up lowering them to about 1' when I upgrade the speakers for the surround channels.

The content in the vast majority of Atmos tracks is duplicated in the rear atmos channel if you are running 4 of them, and if you are bouncing your surround channel sound off the ceiling already, you wont be able to distinguish between the two. For what its worth, I have RSL 34Es for the height channels and am very happy with them. The amount of content that is played out of them is minimal, I wouldn't be too concerned with the extent to which the tonality etc matches the bed.

[Danny Richie]

The X-On Wall is omni directional. So even though it is not facing you, you are still listening in the direct on axis. You aren't just hearing sound bounced off of the ceiling. It will have a ceiling reflection just like any and every other speaker you have. It is just tilting the axis.

I would also advise caution with in ceiling speakers. For Atmos to really work well you really need ten to twelve foot ceilings. Low ceilings will ruin the effect it is trying to achieve. You don't want to just be setting right under one of them.

[HT1278]

OK, Thank you.  I am considering placing the only pair of Atmos Speakers near my rear surrounds.  So I would 2 pairs of X On Walls somewhat close together.  At this time the system would be a 7.1. Currently the system is 5.1. 

The two pairs of X-On Walls would be within a few feet of them.  The back wall is about twelve feet wide, so perhaps I just do one pair of X-On Wall, not sure about 2 pairs there.  Also the other people at the house might be really surprised. 

[WGH]

OK, Thank you.  I am considering placing the only pair of Atmos Speakers near my rear surrounds.  So I would 2 pairs of X On Walls somewhat close together.  At this time the system would be a 7.1. Currently the system is 5.1. 

The two pairs of X-On Walls would be within a few feet of them.  The back wall is about twelve feet wide, so perhaps I just do one pair of X-On Wall, not sure about 2 pairs there.  Also the other people at the house might be really surprised. 

Consider putting the two Atmos in-ceiling speakers in front of the seating, nobody will be sitting directly under a speaker and the Atmos effect would be better too. Dolby recommends the front Atmos location for 5.1.2 systems. The X-On Wall speaker mounted on the side walls would probably work perfectly too.
https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/5.1.2-overhead-speaker-setup-guide/



A lot of people like the RSL C34E MKII Atmos speaker, they have dual 4-1/2 woofers with a 15 degree angle and a treated-fabric exposed dome swivel tweeter. The speaker can be rotated enabling fine tuning of the Atmos effect.
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-mkii-in-ceiling-speaker/


My layout is similar to yours with Atmos, surround and height speakers close together, the setup seems to work out just fine. I have a 7.1.4 setup with 4 Atmos speakers, a lot of sound comes from behind with the rear height speakers so the rear Atmos speakers are almost redundant.

I was concerned about beaming and needed a sealed speaker because of the blown fiberglass insulation and the extreme attic temperatures in Arizona. I went with Triad because of their reputation and the speaker design worked in my situation. The speaker is not for everyone because it is expensive and with a 84dB sensitivity it requires a lot of power to reach home theater levels. The Triad InWall Bronze/4 Surround work beautifully as in-ceiling Atmos speakers and I would do it again, they have very high quality sound with a small 13" x 13"square grill and the ability to go to 103dB. The speakers always show up on eBay at half price but I don't see any right now. The old dipole version can be converted to new bipole version by reversing the polarity of the rear facing driver. The old version has an arrow label pointing to the front.

Triad InWall Bronze/4 Surround (Atmos) and homemade Vifa rear surround

[HT1278]

Perhaps my best best is to use only 5.1 with the X-On Walls for the rear surround speakers; due to otherwise having 2 pairs on X-On Wall within one 12 foot wall.  Not sure if that would be good or not good.  I really like the idea of using Atmos due to wanting to replay the movie recording the way it was recorded, which was to use Atmos.  I am using physical media 4K UHD Discs on a Sony 4K, Blu Ray player.  Part of the problem with the room is that it is somewhat narrow at 12 feet wide and about 16 foot deep.  Just to keep it fun there are two doors in this room, and one large opening going to an open floorplan.   

[Theronbo]

I have X-on as front height speakers in a  7.2.4 configuration.

This in a 20x30’ room with 11.5’ ceilings.

The x-on as front height speakers work very well.

I have them positioned 1/3 & 2/3 positions along long wall… TV in middle. More or less above my  X-Statiks L&R.
They are 2 1/2’ from ceiling - bottom of speaker right about 8’ off floor.

As with surrounds in general you don’t notice them…

The Dolby ATMOS mix of the song ‘Hush’ by the Marìas has bits where backup singers are just coming from front height. Interesting effect.

Anything by Billie Elish in ‘Spatial Audio’ is interesting.

Apparently sound engineers are often making 2 masters, one each Stero & Spatial Audio…

The AI generated stuff is about the same as enabling Dolby ATMOS on a Stero sourced signal… unimpressive.

[Theronbo]

@HT how high is the ceiling in this 12x16’ room?

If just 8’ … then maybe in ceiling speakers are a better solution.

Concerning 4k Blue Ray discs vs 4k streaming…

No comparison, physical media is dramatically better, especially where soundtrack is concerned.

For some unknown reason… the streamers compress soundtrack significantly… EQing any dynamic range out of it.

I noticed this most especially in Dune (the new one)… like watching a different version of the film.

4k streaming video really isn’t better than HD off air antenna reception. Except sound is worse.

[Theronbo]

In my experience…

7.1 system is more worthwhile than 5.1.2 …

Side speakers in the plane seems to create a greater spatial/stage effect than overheads.

But, if 8’ ceilings… perhaps heights speakers are more effective.

[Danny Richie]

OK, Thank you.  I am considering placing the only pair of Atmos Speakers near my rear surrounds.  So I would 2 pairs of X On Walls somewhat close together.  At this time the system would be a 7.1. Currently the system is 5.1. 

The two pairs of X-On Walls would be within a few feet of them.  The back wall is about twelve feet wide, so perhaps I just do one pair of X-On Wall, not sure about 2 pairs there.  Also the other people at the house might be really surprised. 

If they are getting the exact same signal then they will start to cancel each out out. So you might get a more complete and full range sound from the X-On Walls only.

[Danny Richie]

Triad InWall Bronze/4 Surround (Atmos) and homemade Vifa rear surround

These are the kind of speakers that I strongly recommend avoiding.

Speakers are angled in a baffled design like this thinking that it will shoot sound at at different angles or directions for increased coverage area. In reality the woofers are playing in a range that is more omni directional. So there is no need to angle them. Then the flat surfaces in front of the drivers cause significant diffraction and cancellation resulting in holes in the response. Also, the space between them will cause comb filtering cancellation as one moves left or right in relation to the line of the drivers.

The other model will have a null or cancellation at 90 degrees off axis that leaves a hole in the response. It basically scatters some signal forward and some to the rear. At no point in the room can you take a measurement of the output signal and have it look anything like the input signal.

All applications like that can be replaced with the X-On Wall.

[OrangeAgent]

To the OP, how do you have your speakers laid out currently? Some of your comments make it sound like your X on walls are both on the rear wall, in which case perhaps the better solution would be to add 2 more of the same on the side walls and do a 7.1 setup with those as sides. If your current layout has the rear surround channels behind you, and putting another pair directly to the sides is workable, then you could use the original set as rear height speakers.

I chose to not go with the x on walls for my system because the way my room is configured, I could not put them anywhere close to where the surround channels needed to be. I would suspect that the effect of the on walls is that you get the sort of diffuse, enveloping effect that the surround channels are supposed to provide and much of what ATMOS has to offer. That being said, if you want ATMOS speakers, where the intent is to have some effects directly overhead being separated from the bed channels, then I cant see where an x on wall would work for that position. Either you have them on the ceiling where they are much wider than the spec, with the tweeter sound coming off the walls, or youve got them on the side walls where your tweeter sounds are coming off the ceiling but the woofer is coming from the wall.

It seems more to me that if you want to use the x on walls for your side, surround, or rear height channels, then skip the ATMOS because what you've got is probably better anyways. If you want ATMOS, then it kind of seems that using the x on walls is already going down the wrong path for that implementation.

[HT1278]

I have 8 foot ceilings.  The house has a flat roof so the roof angles up about 6 inches from one side of the room to the other.  The back of the room where the X-On walls will go is 8 foot. 

Currently, I have X-LS upfront, tweeter is about the height of ears when seated on the couch.

The center is currently a small speaker that will be replaced with a X-CS once finished building.

The rears currently are small speakers that will be replaced by X-On walls. 

The X-On Walls have to go behind the couch a few feet from the ceiling per Hobbs, and Danny I believe it is 2 to 3 feet. 

      They will both be on the rear wall, it is the only real option at this time.  I do not have speakers on the sidewalls, due to the large opening on one side of the room I cannot have any sidewall speakers.

       I do like the idea of being able to  have Atmos, but I would need a speaker that goes on the ceiling or goes on the side walls but direct fires out.  Because of that large opening on one side of the room I cannot use X-On walls on the side because there is only about 13 inches from the large opening to the ceiling.  I can place them anywhere on the ceiling, other than a 4 bladed ceiling fan, about 7 foot to the center of the fan from the back wall, behind the couch.  There is a 12 inch beam, I could use, that is towards the front of the room, about 5 feet from the front wall of the room.  I would like to see if Atmos is possible in this room.  The room is about 11 foot wide x 17 feet, the main seating area, since couch, is about 14.5 feet from the TV. 

Since I already have the X-On Walls cabinet made, they are not painted yet, and the crossovers made, I guess I will just try 5.1.  If I were to change this down the road I could change rear speakers to some on starts perhaps?

I had a probably crazy idea to use LGK's on the side walls, direct firing angled down at the couch for Side overhead/Atmos Speakers, or perhaps mount on the ceiling and angle towards couch, not sure if any of that is a "good" idea. 

FYI for Clarification:  I have the cabinet for the X-CS's and the X-On Walls built, just need to paint the three of them and install the completed crossovers. 

[WGH]

There is a 12 inch beam, I could use, that is towards the front of the room, about 5 feet from the front wall of the room.  I would like to see if Atmos is possible in this room.  The room is about 11 foot wide x 17 feet, the main seating area, since couch, is about 14.5 feet from the TV. 

All is not lost, but it will be messy. If the 12" beam goes from one side wall to the other, then the roof rafters run lengthwise and rest on top of the beam. In theory the Atmos speaker wire could be run parallel to the rafters above the ceiling. I discovered that 5/8" PEX tubing is the perfect wire fishing tool, flexible enough to bend through speaker holes and stiff enough to push over, under and between rafters. Some practice is required. There might be solid wood fire blocking above the beam, then things can get creative, i.e. more holes.

I have no problem cutting holes in drywall when running wires. A semicircle blade on a Ryobi oscillating multi-tool cuts a clean hole in drywall. The width of the cut is the same as a pencil line. The easy repair involves putting drywall mud on the edges of the piece that was cut out and gently push in the hole until flush, finish with a light coat of spackle and paint.
 

My room size is close to yours, 14'w x 17' long, open L-shaped with the sofa 12' from the wall mounted TV. I don't have anyplace to mount side surround speakers either.
I also didn't want my living room looking like a recording studio with speakers stuck on every surface. Guests notice the main stereo speakers and never see the 2 surround, 2 rear and 4 Atmos speakers in the photo. The 8 speakers have a total of 26 drivers, the sound of the latest Dune movie is immersive and never shrill or bright. The null and cancellation Danny mentions is never noticed, everyone's attention is focused on the action on the screen.



The side surround bipole speakers are behind the modified ATS acoustic panels.

The rear speakers mounted close to the ceiling are basically for ambience. I made the speakers back in May 1995 from a Madisound kit to use in my first home theater - glorious 4 channel matrix sound with movies rented on VHS tapes.

[HT1278]

Thank you everyone for all of your help!  Some great ideas.  Appreciate all of the input.