[John Casler]

Many times you may see discussions about "tuning" VMPS Speakers.

All VMPS Floorstanding models came "over damped" with slightly more putty added to the Passive Radiator than one might need.  This then meant that all one need do is remove a pea sized "pinch", let the woofers break in, and then maybe remove a fingernail or two to get it perfect.

A similar procedure was suggested with the "pots" or L-Pads equaliing a basic setting and the a "fine tuning" after breakin.

Well B, now does most of that before they leave the factory, with a new "extended" burn in and break in that takes your speakers to about 95% before they reach you.

Recently he posted this information in another thread and I thought it important enough to place in its own Post.

See Below:

Since the damping has changed so much in the SR71 upgrade you can experiment with removing some fiberglass from the enclosure to tune it to you taste. The putty is well-pinched.

As previously mentioned, every production pair of floorstanders is now taken to my soundroom (a 30 minute rountrip), set up, tuned and has its crossover individually micro adjusted, thus taking care of driver variations too small to measure and leaving little tuning for the home user to do. I was able to check the efficacy of the "pre-tuning" this week when I visited a new RM30 owner in his tiny condominium (12x14', with a TV inbetween the speakers). Using a Marantz 8500 receiver and a Denon DVD player as a source, I found it necessary to remove only the tiniest scraping from the PR (about 1/32" around) and make no change of the level controls for optimum sound.

We have also increased factory burnin to 48 hrs minimum. As a result of these new measures 95% of full performance should be achieved from the RM series speakers right out of the box. Subwoofers with the builtin 1000W amp receive the same pre-treatment.
_________________
Big B

[zybar]

John,

If Big B. is tuning at his place and the user has to adjust only the smallest amount of putty, why continue to have pots at all?

It has been shown by various people on this and other boards that removing the pots improved the sound (both measured and observed).

Seems like it should at least be an option...

George

[warnerwh]

Personally I couldn't live without the pots.  The ability to fine tune is too important especially when you consider the vagaries of all the different listening rooms.  Before I owned Vmps speakers I had Vandersteens and they also have pots for mids/tweets.  Speaker position alone just doesn't do as well imo.

[Campindog]

I was there when B set up the reffered to RM30's (Actually I had to help hump those bad boys up a flight of stairs). And they sounded so much better than mine did when they were new. Most of the "grainyness" that I had at first was not present. He removed only the smallest amount of putty and they sounded fantastic. Honestly I never heard the difference the putty made, but I was outside the sweet spot. I think the pots are still important though. Some people will always refuse to address room issues and this may help overly bright or dull rooms. Or tune to taste. While unmeasured, my set is a little brighter in a room that is overdamped.
For what it is worth, those townhouse speakers will be moving to a larger home in 30 days and may need to be tweaked in the larger room. It will be interesting to hear the same system moved into a different house.

[John Casler]

John,

If Big B. is tuning at his place and the user has to adjust only the smallest amount of putty, why continue to have pots at all?

It has been shown by various people on this and other boards that removing the pots improved the sound (both measured and observed).

Seems like it should at least be an option...

George

Hi George,

I'm with Warner on that one.  

No one that I know of has shown that removing the pots "improved" the sound, and while an additional circuit may have a slight sonic degradation, it seems to far outshadowed by the ability to "tune to taste".

I have had many speakers in my life and heard hundreds if not thousands of others, in many different sonic environments.

Some of them did have adjustments or rear tweaters, and such, but none of them approached the ability I have found with the VMPS.

The adjustment and manipulation of the signal will always be with us.  There are purists who will maintain "no" adjustment, or equalization, and there are early adaptors who will adjust through newer technologies like the current digital systems.

Many even claim to hear "adjusted" or "truer" sound from different, cables, interconnects, power cords, capacitors, mods, and conditioners.

Some even go so far as to claim sonic improvement from raising cable off the floor or using a specific type of wood for their amp or equipment stand or rack.

This hobby is filled with "adjustments".  I find the single best adjustment of "ALL" of them are the pots and putty.  (I haven't tried the digital yet so I can't speak to that)  I also find that between the P&P (pots and putty) and various tweaks and room treaments, I can acheive stunning sonics, that please me.

Which is best?  Only "your" ears can tell you what you like.  

Now that said, the VMPS "can" be ordered without crossovers and pots as "Direct DRIVE" for those who wish to change their internal passive analog filters for external digital models.  This is done at "no additional charge", in fact, it is $200 off the standard list price plus $45 for each additional binding post set.

[ekovalsky]

Although the L-pads are very cheap and are not built with exotic materials, I doubt they significantly degrade the audio signal, maybe to a lesser degree than a good resistor.  They do "waste" power, since some of the amplifier output is diverted to the ground instead of through the upstream drivers.   With the passive VMPS crossovers, they are essential to level match (i.e. attenuate) the tweeter and midrange sections to the less efficient woofer section.  

While those with a "golden ear" may be successful in properly level matching the various sections, a proper measuring device is really helpful.  Using one will greatly speed up the process and inspire confidence in your settings.

Personally I don't believe the L-pads are of much help in "tuning" the sound to the room.  I say this because the adjustments act over huge frequency ranges, like 200hz - 6khz and 6khz - 20khz.  Room interactions cause frequency irregularities over much more narrow bands, and the only way to deal with them properly is variable Q parametric EQ whether implemented via analog or digital circuits.   Multiple high Q filters can fix most room problems quite well.

The low Q adjustments offered with the L-pads are somewhat functional as bass, midrange, and treble tone controls.  Used in this manner I can see how they will help tailor the sound to the owner's preference.

For future VMPS customers, I am glad Brian is adjusting the putty before shipping speakers.  The microgram adjustments never made any sense to me and it was a constant source of frustration until I gave up.  Given a particular complement of active woofers and a known enclosure volume there should be an exact amount of mass on the passive radiator for it have optimal extension and minimal distortion.  As an aside I did measurements of my speakers with varying amounts of putty on the PRs (ranging from a big marble removed to extra mass applied) in an attempt to get more extension out of them.  But measurements never changed.  I think a lot of extra mass (think many grams if not kilograms) would be needed to drop the tuning frequency into the low 20's.

Petrifying / vitrifying / gluing / lacquering / SR-71'ing the passive drivers changes their physical characteristics.  The end result will be different sounding bass, maybe better maybe not.  Proper design and implementation by the factory is the best way to get the best sound from  speakers.  Having owners perform routine tuning without measuring equipment and undertake semi-random tweaks is a crap shoot.

For anyone in the market for new VMPS, I'd highly recommend the "Direct Drive" option with a DEQX or TacT system if you have the coin and also the patience to conquer the learning curve.  I for one do not have a "golden ear" and after a week of initial troubles, I was very happy to let a computer do the grunt work of my setup.

[Jose R.]

. As an aside I did measurements of my speakers with varying amounts of putty on the PRs (ranging from a big marble removed to extra mass applied) in an attempt to get more extension out of them. But measurements never changed..

I too was unable to measure any difference in the SPL with adjustments to the putty on the PR's in my RM30C's.  I do however use subs with a crossover of about 130Hz which probably masks the audible effects of putty changes.
The Pots are useful to adjust levels between mids and tops but I have found the "useful" range to be quite small.  In my system, turning the mid pots much above 1 o'clock tends to make the sound a bit hard.  From measurements, increasing the mid pot level results mainly in an SPL increase above 2KHz, the range below that being less affected.  Reducing the pot levels has been possibly more beneficial in my system.

Regards

Jose

[meilankev]

John (and Brian by proxy),

I might be in the minority here, but I can't imagine that attempting to have the speakers "pre-tuned" at the factory is neccesarily a positive thing.  Actually, I'm afraid it will simply give many buyers the (mis)impression that their speakers are going to be almost plug-and-play.

But there are so many factors that come into play for tuning the speakers.  The top three would be:

1) Room dimensions - A pair of RM40s tuned to perform at their best in a 16' x 14' x 8' room will likely need some modifications if you move them into a 26' x 20' x 16' room.
2) Upstream components - Someone who is driving RM40s full-range with tubes will likely have different settings (both putty and pots) than someone using a SS receiver.
3) Personal preferences - self-explanatory...

These are not the only three variables - just the three that jumped immediately into my mind.  Actually, another would be "where the speakers can be located within the room boundaries".

Don't get me wrong, sending them to the customer "closer" to their optimum setting could be a good thing.  But this can only be true if Brian is aware of the "environment" the speakers will be entering.  Therefore he might need to "pre-tune" different pairs of speakers differently - based on the specifics of their new homes.

But even then, the owner should be made aware that it might not fit his/her personal tastes.  In fact, don't forget to send some extra putty along - in case the new owner thinks their speakers are now under-damped for their preferences.

++++++++

And while a 48 hour burn-in is also helpful, I felt my speakers were not fully broken-in until about 2 1/2 months (which totalled about 150 hours of usage).  At this point, I needed to start all over again with the putty/pots.  Therefore, the customer should be made aware of the possibility that adjustments may be in their cards a month or two in the future.

Sincerely,
Kevin

[ctviggen]

To my mind, removing putty wouldn't necessarily change the frequency range over which the speakers can produce sound but would instead change the speed at which the woofers can react.  To me, this is a great benefit, as certain electronics (such as tubes) might not be able to give the bass enough oomph without being able to tune the PR.

Also, I like having the pots.  My dealer came and adjusted my pots, and I lived with that setting for a while.  I then changed the system to be more mellow by turning down both pots (particular the tweeter pot), and the sound was better to my ears, once I got used to it.  I think of the pots as adding or subtracting just enough of the frequency range so that a person can tune the speakers the way he/she likes them to be, within a limited range.  I have not yet measured the in-room frequency response changes due to the pots, though perhaps I will one day.  

I'm one for not changing anything -- leave the pots and the PR alone.  But, I'm also not a perfectionist and I actually enjoy messing around with stuff (when I have time -- which isn't often lately, but will be more in the future).  I think what Brian might consider is offering speakers without the pots/PR and with the pots/PR.  That way, people who enjoy doing this stuff (like me) and want to tune the speakers the way they like them can buy one type of VMPS, and the people who don't want to do this can buy another.

As for correction systems, I think these are a separate issue.  Digital correction is definitely the way to go, once prices get to be where they're affordable.  But digital correction (digital correction over the entire frequency band, which really means correction over small snippets of the frequency band) and pot adjustment (analog correction over a large frequency range) are two different animals.  One could say that digital correction will help any speaker.

[woodsyi]

I think VMPS customers by in large are reasonably well heeled bugbitten would be audio mavens with higher than average audio budget who are seeking to get the sound of over 10k system (whatever that is) for less then 10k.  As such, I personally am willing to forego on certain nitpicky details on fit and finish to get the "value".  If the woofer cutout is a little larger than the drivers and the screws are stainless steel finish rather than gunmetal, I think of what they would cost if they had the "fine furniture" fit, finish and details.  For me I want to pay for the sound rather than the looks -- kind of like looking for open box specials.  If best sound for the buck is your goal, VMPS is hard to beat.  If best ornamental aspect takes higher priority, then one can do better than what my wife calls "Spinal Tap Monoliths."  Toward getting the best sound, I like having tunable bass and "tone control" on the ribbons.  Especially if I change amps or source, I find that I have to tweak those things.  I want to have those controls.  I need those controls.  I sometimes change settings -- active x-over band output level and pots on the ribbons-- for different recordings.  For example, the new Cowboy Junkies CD is seriously bloated on bass.  If I couldn't attenuate bass, I wouldn't be able to listen to it.  I don't think I would ever go with plug and play speakers.  I may consider digitally crossed active system in the future, but I await further refinement on that front.

[zybar]

I think VMPS customers by in large are reasonably well heeled bugbitten would be audio mavens with higher than average audio budget who are seeking to get the sound of over 10k system (whatever that is) for less then 10k.  As such, I personally am willing to forego on certain nitpicky details on fit and finish to get the "value".  If the woofer cutout is a little larger than the drivers and the screws are stainless steel finish rather than gunmetal, I think of what they would cost if they had the "fine furn ...

You don't have to sacrifice looks to get excellent performance at a very good price (i.e. more affordable than VMPS).

My current speakers are proof of that.

George

[JoshK]

I am mostly in agreance with Eric on his points.  I think he nailed it.

I have had my RM40s in 4 different rooms.  I have had pretty good success tuning them by ear in only 2 of those rooms.  In the other two cases the room was too imparting to try and tune by ear, measurements are/were needed to disagregate the room modes from the speaker correction.   I am fortunate enough to own a DEQX now which is a pretty powerful measuring/correcting tool, but I have yet to delve into it yet.

I think it is really helpful to have Brian preset the tuning to the approximate ballpark and let the user futz with it some more if they want/need to.  I use to believe that the tuning was an affective way of matching the speakers to the room, and to some extent it is, definitely more-so than conventional speakers but still wholly inadequate to solve any problems with the room.

[JoshK]

I've said it before about the stainless steel screws.  Get yourself a small jar of black epoxy ($4 at a local hardware store) and paint the heads of the screws with a small brush.  It solves the problem and does wonders to the looks of the speakers from 4'+ away.  I have considered painting the exposed green PCB as well.

[woodsyi]

I've said it before about the stainless steel screws.  Get yourself a small jar of black epoxy ($4 at a local hardware store) and paint the heads of the screws with a small brush.  It solves the problem and does wonders to the looks of the speakers from 4'+ away.  I have considered painting the exposed green PCB as well.

Josh,

You are right.  That would be an easy thing to do and would make them look better.  I will do it this weekend.  I "dance" with my 3year old daughter at her request down there and have the grills up at the moment.

[JoshK]

I also painted the gold rivets so that the driver looks all black and doesn't call attention to itself.

[woodsyi]

You don't have to sacrifice looks to get excellent performance at a very good price (i.e. more affordable than VMPS).

My current speakers are proof of that.

George

George,

I guess we are getting to that subjective area where different folks prefer different sound.  I have been listening to full size Soundlab ESL speakers these couple of weeks and really like them, but I prefer my RM 40 for the kind of music that I like the best.  My foremost love is opera and ribbons do female voice better than any for me.  I compared dynamic drivers, horns and planars before choosing planars.  Then I bought a pair of used RM40's and the rest is history.  Maggies are really good to me too, but lacks bass and colors bass and baritone voice.  But I was and (still is) a novice audiophile, albeit one who loves music.  I let my emotions dictate what I listen to.  My taste and ability to discern finer nuances of listening may improve and change my thinking in the future.  But for the moment, I go by what gets me emotionally involved.

[zybar]

Woodsyi,

Going with what emotionally grabs you is ALWAYS the way to go!  That's why I changed speakers to what I am currently using.

My goal wasn't to turn this into a VMPS vs. some other speaker debate.

I was merely pointing out that there are options out there where you don't have to choose between great sound, great looks, and great quality.  

For some reason, VMPS owners seem to view the way the speaker looks as a badge of honor.  That another speaker that looks better, can't possibly sound better.  That too much of the speaker's cost must be tied up in cosmetics and not the sound.

That's just plain BS!

As I did with the RM 40's, I invite anybody over to hear things for themselves and decide if what I am currently using floats their boat.  I honestly don't care one way or another what the results are.  

Enjoy your RM 40's (I know I did while I used them) and the music they produce.

George

[JoshK]

I think your Ebony cabinets look nice. Aren't they of top quality?  They aren't the same as your HT3s of course but that is a different story.

[CornellAlum]

What's wrong with the looks of the MLS cabinets?  I think they look stunning, at least to my eyes

[Marbles]

"snip"