DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range

mresseguie · « **Reply #40 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 01:51 am »

Quote from: datahut on 28 Jan 2016, 10:19 pm

Wow, I'm thoroughly impressed by the response to my orginal post. There's a bit to sift through, but I think it's managable. Half the fun is figuring out what to buy, but eventually have to make a decision and get to the real pleasure of listening. Like what's said about the Gungnir, but will give more time to the other posts here.

Also, not knowing a lot about where to go for reviews, I started with Stereophile which gave good reviews on the Benchmark (DAC2 HGC and DAC1 HDR), Cambridge Azur 851D and Mytek 190-DSD. None of these have shown up in this thread so am wondering if they are too new or the review source is limited in some people's minds. Either way, are these good choices to consider in folk's opinion or should they be ruled out?

Thanks for all the input!

Hi, Datahut.

DAC technology/capability has been zipping along at breakneck speed for a couple years now. New models seem to come out every 18 to 24 months with upgraded DAC chips and/or new bells and whistles to catch shoppers' eyes. I did not check the Benchmark DACs, but both the 851D and Mytek 190-DSD are two-plus years old now. That's almost like buying a new four year old automobile. It's still new, but 2016 models are better. [Okay, that's my perception.]

I'm interested in getting the most from my money, so I'm keenly interested in manufacturer-direct products with quality manufacturing history/reputation.

Just my two bits. YMMV.

Michael

KLH007 · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 02:00 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 28 Jan 2016, 11:04 pm

It seems if a person's budget is unlimited, the Aqua dacs is the way o go. There are rave reviews from all the reviewers.

The AQUA DACs are just more musical sounding, but moderately expensive. Recently my friends helped me conduct a DAC shootout, after 5 DACs were auditioned, 2 guys simultaneously said "put that Italian one back in ( LaScala) and let's listen to music". The La Scala is the only DAC at the top of John Darko's list, and the La Voce sacrifices some but still conveys the music in a way most DACs miss, perhaps due to ladder vs Delta/Sigma.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 02:19 am »

It's more about personal taste and system matching. I have heard quite a few DAC's and have liked most. I choose my Luxman due to its very analog, warmer sound with a full, rich, liquid midrange and good detail. It has just enough air and transparency for my tastes. It suites my tastes and system. The PSA DSD sounds completely different and I could be just as happy with it.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 02:38 am »

Quote from: 007KLH on 29 Jan 2016, 02:00 am

The AQUA DACs are just more musical sounding, but moderately expensive. Recently my friends helped me conduct a DAC shootout, after 5 DACs were auditioned, 2 guys simultaneously said "put that Italian one back in ( LaScala) and let's listen to music". The La Scala is the only DAC at the top of John Darko's list, and the La Voce sacrifices some but still conveys the music in a way most DACs miss, perhaps due to ladder vs Delta/Sigma.

There is s modded La Voce on Audiogon for $2200 wih free shipping.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-aqua-la-voce-s-2-upgraded-aqua-la-voce-s2-d-a-converter-2016-01-27-digital-l3s-4g3

The owner says less than 100 hours. The unit has not even been broken in yet.

Srereo Times put the La Voce as one of the top ten components wants list.

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 05:20 am »

<product reference removed>

Any thoughts on PCM1794A based DACs?

Thanks.

-Tommy O

JLM · « **Reply #45 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 12:43 pm »

Datahut,

You haven't mentioned what formats you're interested in. This is an important consideration. PCM conversion is a more complicated and completely different animal than DSD/DXD.

Machines that do both are essentially two separate components in the same cabinet. Native DSD/DXD recordings is an oxymoron as it cannot be manipulated in the studio. So DSD/DXD recordings have been converted from PCM and personally I'm not sure that makes much sense to pursue. DSD/DXD gets talked about all the time but make up a very small percentage available recordings. It's for those reasons that Schiit does only PCM conversion.

And some do an exceptional job with good old Redbook (16/44, CD quality) PCM, which represents the vast majority of available recordings. Chord is one of those.

toddbagwell · « **Reply #46 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 03:19 pm »

Tommy, glad you joined the thread, but please remember the posting rules for industry participants do not allow for self-promotion.

'Posting Rules for Industry Participants
You are free to participate in any topics that are not directly related to your products anywhere on the site. Please note that the Posting Guidelines always apply.

We encourage you to provide technical information about your products in response to member queries, but you are not permitted to discuss product availability, pricing, future product features, or anything related to your business activities.'

OzarkTom · « **Reply #47 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 03:36 pm »

I almost mentioned Tommy's Dac Dac, but I do not know when these will be shipped.
Simple is always better, I never understood why Dacs had to have so many parts in them.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #48 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 07:24 pm »

Quote from: johsti on 28 Jan 2016, 10:41 pm

Well within your budget, a used PS Audio PWD mkII is tough to beat if DSD is not a requirement. It still holds its own compared to some newer offerings, at least according to this reviewer.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/

I've stumbled across the PS Audio offerings and am impressed by the reviews. Any idea how much it costs to upgrade from the PWD to a DirectStream if DSD is desired?

ACHiPo · « **Reply #49 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 08:29 pm »

"Narrowing" down my choices:
Used Mytek $895
Used Teac 501 $500
New Mytek $1200
Used PS Audio PWD $1500 (upgradeable to DirectWave for $?)
Used Exogal Comet $2k
Used Auralic Vega $2.2k
Used PS Audio DirectWave $3k

All do DSD. All are raved about. The FPGA concept is attractive for the future.

JLM · « **Reply #50 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 08:39 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 29 Jan 2016, 03:36 pm

I almost mentioned Tommy's Dac Dac, but I do not know when these will be shipped.
Simple is always better, I never understood why Dacs had to have so many parts in them.

I've done "hair shirt" in the past, and have a minimalistic system, but backed out of the kickstarter offer when I realized the "hair shirt" limitations designed into the DAC DAC weren't going away.

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #51 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 08:42 pm »

Just wondering.... To cover DSD, why not just convert to high rate PCM on the source side? That gets rid of all the HF DSD noise as well as allow simple/reliable interfacing. Thanks.

SteveMiller · « **Reply #52 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 09:05 pm »

Hi Guys. I have an original version of Tommmy's DAC DAC in the TL flavour right now.

For anyone interested in knowing, it has out played, out Dac'd, and out simplified ANYTHING I have ever heard. FOR LESS MONEY!

I've happliy sold off other gear, and ordered a second DAC DAC for a second system. The big question here is WHAT DOES IT SOUND LIKE? And I can best answer that by saying it sounds right. It sounds like real life. It has resolution galore, but it doesnt highlight that. It has warmth, but you dont focus on that. It images like crazy, but thats not its strength. It just sounds right with all kinds of music. It breaths like a relaxed athlete. no stress, not trying too hard in any one area. You might think you know BB dac chips, and you might think you know what wallwart driven dac's sound like. BUt honestly, you'll be surprised. Yes, it only has PCM input, but I have used a basic USB-SPDIF adapter with great success, and also a 12$ optical to digital adaptor. Honestly, you can sell your expensive power cables, and your equipment supports, and your double header usb cables, and your crazy priced interconnects. I did. All the things I was employing to "fix" my source DAC weren't needed anymore.

I know it reads pretty crazy, but its true. I've posted elsewhere the same sentiments. My motivation here is that we've all been spending alot of money on other brands, and eventually trading them away and buying the latest more expensive new model. Read what I said before, the DAC DAC is so good I actually bought ANOTHER one! And still have money left over after I sold my previous dacs

( Previous dacs include $10k Shanling, $2k Shanling+ seriously modded), SimAudio, W4S DAC2 DSD SE, BelCanto, etc and dozen more I never bought)

Folsom · « **Reply #53 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 09:26 pm »

Which ones on this list are better for PCM?

ACHiPo · « **Reply #54 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 10:34 pm »

Quote from: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Jan 2016, 08:42 pm

Just wondering.... To cover DSD, why not just convert to high rate PCM on the source side? That gets rid of all the HF DSD noise as well as allow simple/reliable interfacing. Thanks.

I think that's what I'm doing currently--running JRiver on my HAL into the Oppo 105. Given the issues I had playing DSD initially I'm pretty sure I'm converting the ISO files into 24/176.4.

I am definitely NOT an expert in this (I'm still wondering if I'll even hear a difference between my Oppo 105 and any of the DACs I'm considering). It just seems to me to make sense to process DSD as DSD and PCM as PCM. The more crunching, the more opportunity for error. The reviews I've read seem to be consistent with that approach.

I've got several hundred DSD albums, I like listening to them as SACDs, and want to listen to them via DSD. Using DSD on PCM (DoP) is very CPU-heavy (I've read), and from personal experience, timing can get wonky when CPU utilization gets high.

The PS Audio DirectStream takes the DoP and flips it around, running everything in DSD (including converting PCM). I'm not sure that makes sense, either, but the rave reviews have me thinking about it.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #55 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 10:42 pm »

Quote from: Folsom on 29 Jan 2016, 09:26 pm

Which ones on this list are better for PCM?

Folsom,
Not sure if that question was directed at me, but both the Exogal and the Vega get rave reviews for their PCM processing. I believe (but am definitely not certain) that they do DoP to process DSD, so are basically PCM DACs with the ability to handle up to 2x DSD.

The PS Audio PWD is only a PCM DAC--it needs to be upgraded to the DirectStream to get DSD capability.

AC

Folsom · « **Reply #56 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 10:59 pm »

It's at the world.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #57 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 11:01 pm »

If you guys really want excellent sound for your digital music, give Bug Head a try. It makes JRiver sound like transistor radio and HQ player sound midfi. It is not as easy to use as JR but the sonic reward is worth it. It does take a decent computer to run it. PM me if anyone wants any more info on it or computer requirements.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #58 on:** 29 Jan 2016, 11:03 pm »

I think the latest ASIO driver from Auralic allows jRiver to bit stream directly into the Vega whereas the previous driver required DoP protocol to playback DSD-DFF files. I don't know if or how the VEGA could playback ISO files.
Scotty

ACHiPo · « **Reply #59 on:** 30 Jan 2016, 12:50 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 29 Jan 2016, 11:03 pm

I think the latest ASIO driver from Auralic allows jRiver to bit stream directly into the Vega whereas the previous driver required DoP protocol to playback DSD-DFF files. I don't know if or how the VEGA could playback ISO files.
Scotty

Hmmm you raise a good point. One of the reasons I want a new DAC is to be able to go back to using my Aurender UI, as I like it a lot better than JRiver. The Aurender/Oppo couldn't handle DSD, however, so that's why I migrated to a music server and JRiver. I just assumed that if I got a DAC that would do DSD I could stream files from the Aurender via USB whether they are PCM or DSD.