[KJ]

Well, three Milwaukee locals had a most enjoyable day comparing and contrasting the virtues of the Nuforce Reference 9 amps in a couple different setups.  Overall, we were very pleased with the results, and I'll do my best to summarize our collective thoughts.

System:

- Speakers: VMPS RM30M w/ TRT, Analysis+ and megawoofer upgrades
- Usual amp: Bryston 3B-ST
- Pre-amp: Sherwood-Newcastle R-965 preouts
- Source: Jolida JD100a
- Power: BPT Ultra2 w/ bybee filters, hubble outlets, auricaps, silver wiring & L9 PC

Music used:

- Dire Straights - Private Investigations
- Nils Lofgren - Little On Up
- Roger Water - Late Home Tonight
- Unknown - Cry Me A River (written by Julie London)
- Dave Brubeck - cuts from Time out
- Peter White - cuts from Glow
- Flight of the Cosmic Hippo - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo (track #4)
- B.B. King - various cuts

Usually, I augment my stereo listening with a sub because it has always left me lingering for more presence of bass.  This is unfortunate because my sub just can't keep up with the speed of my speakers.  I was fully intent on purchasing a new sub and dedicated sub-amp to resolve my situation.  Don't get me wrong, the Bryston amp provides plenty of juice and a very clean sound to my mains.  However, after swapping in the Ref 9s, I don't believe I'll ever use a sub again.  I NEVER thought I could obtain that much oomph out of my front channels.  Was it the extra 90 watts provided by the Ref 9s?  The improvement in bass response was so substantial, I really don't believe so.  The bass was so tight and powerful, I had to walk over and check to make sure I really left the sub disconnected.

To ensure we weren't dreaming, we pulled out a real bass kicker - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo. I've always felt this song wasn't as bass heavy as people made it out to be. Perhaps it was my speakers, perhaps it was me, who knows.  I guess it goes to show you that it only takes one weak link to impact the chain because the hippo was certainly fatter today!  Cut after cut, the bass just felt tighter and more prominent. Additionally, it was as if there was greater spatial separation between instruments. Auxilary instrumentation didn't get lost in the shuffle and everything was well balanced.  I felt we heard greater width in soundstage when burning the Ref 9s in at Jim's, but I didn't notice any variation in my setup. This could be due to my equipment sitting in a corner while the speakers are pulled out into the room more.  Nevertheless, I've never been as thrilled with the sound coming from my system as today.

I will admit the amps do get a little bit warmer than I originally thought (about the same as my Bryston).  However, they certainly won't burn your finger like a Krell.  Additionally, I do believe the Jolida helped to give me that full and lush sound, as well as some additional presence of bass.  I tried running it digitally through the S-N for a quick comparison and it did feel slightly less volumptuous.  After 2 1/2 hours of listening, we plugged the amps into another system comprising of Parasound Halo amps w/ pre-pro and Dynaudio Contour S5.4 speakers.  Ultimately, we concluded that the same characteristics which were revealed earlier presented themselves yet again, but enjoyed another fun 2-3 hours of listening.

Are these amps right for you? Arguably, it depends on your situation and listening preferences.  If you are in the market for new amps, these should be at the top end of your demo list.  They are quiet, powerful and are priced quite competitively.  Additionally, they are space conscious with a clean look that should lend to a high WAF.  Should you throw out your existing high-end amp? Not necessarily.  As with most high-end gear, most changes result in marginal improvements these days.  However, if you aren't getting everything out of your speakers and feel the need to augment your setup with a sub I'd highly recommend you give these amps a try!  The difference for me was not insignificant in the least, and I'm not left wanting a new sub.    

-KJ

[Charles Calkins]

KJ:
  How did the mid/treble range sound with the Nuforce amps? About the same as with the Bryston or better?

                                  Cheers
                                  Charlie

[ScottMayo]

I'm not saying a word against the Nuforce, which I haven't heard yet. But the RM speaker series does like to have extra power available, and putting the Nuforce against the 3B-ST might not be a head-on comparison. I'd like to see the Nuforce monos put against bigger Bryston SST amp.

I might arrange that comparison myself, at some point...  I like the design of the Nuforce, and if it doesn't add brightness to a system, I could see becoming a dealer.

[KJ]

Charlie,

I think the mids and highs felt slightly more prominent in addition to the bass which is good, otherwise the sound would have been unbalanced.  When comparing amplifiers, I used to listen for the lifting of a veil which is how I chose my Bryston.  I don't necessarily hear a huge improvement in the clarity itself (ie, the veil).  I am hearing greater improvements in the dynamics and presentation more than anything.  I guess you can say I am listening at a different level now when comparing amps as detail will only get you so far (IMO).

I listened for edginess or brightness to the highs, but I really never heard any of these negative traits.  Classic piano and jazz were particularly good.  The dynamic hammer strikes of the piano was a real treat.  I especially remember how you could hear the player hit the pads on the saxophone and listen for changes in his breathing.  Cymbal decay was also exceptional.

The characteristic that remains in my head the most is the tonal separation that presented itself.  There was this void or blackness between the varying instruments that added to the three dimensional presentation.  I used to feel on certain tunes that I could locate the square foot from which the singer's voice or guitar were coming from.  Now I feel that I can point straight to the exact source point.  I anticipate I'll be in sonic heaven as soon as I bring in some room treatments.  Fortunately, I believe my cathedral ceilings and open sided room help out a bit in this regard.  Nevertheless, I guess I am finding myself enjoying the realistic presentation and stage dynamics more than I did before when I was just happy with detail, clarity and overall soundstage.

-KJ

[KJ]

I'm not saying a word against the Nuforce, which I haven't heard yet. But the RM speaker series does like to have extra power available, and putting the Nuforce against the 3B-ST might not be a head-on comparison. I'd like to see the Nuforce monos put against bigger Bryston SST amp.

That may very well be true given my setup.  Perhaps I just never realized my speaker's full potential.

Jim's setup, however, was a definite step down in spec'd power.  He was using a Krell 400CX which is putting out 800W @ 4ohms compared to the Nuforce's 300W.  When using the Nuforce, we felt the bass coming out of his RM40s was enough to warrant shutting off his two largers.  It wasn't nearly as signifcant as my system (to your point Scott), but it was noticeably tighter and slightly fuller.  I'd recommend finding some for a demo session.  My original skeptiscism has certainly disappeared.  

-KJ

[Charles Calkins]

KJ:
 Thanks for the info.
  When I get my 9's I'm thinking about using them to drive only the mid/treble modules. Right now I have a pair of Nad 218 THX amps driving everything. I would like to keep the Nad's to drive the woofer modules. I'm sure you have read that the Nad's have great bass extension. Take my word for it that's true. Guys who have heard my system think I've got a subwoofer or two hidden somewhere. My preamp has two amp outs so no problem hooking up the 9's and the Nad's. Sure hope it works.

                                              Cheers
                                              Charlie

[KJ]

Charlie,

If you do go that route, I'd consider a Ref 8 for the high/mid.  Nuforce does have an option for those who specifically want to use the Ref 9 in a bi-amping or tri-amping setup.  They will make a modified version of the Ref 9 for the woofer which can push the bass to 10 or 15Hz (currently at 20hz).  Since you'd want to use your NAD, you could just use the Ref 8 and save yourself some cash.  

-KJ

[trekker]

KJ,

Thanks for your honest listening impression.  I get tired of reading peoples impresions of their new equipment which becomes, the 'best' and blows everything other equipment out of the water.

Even though the amps get warmer than you expected, atleast there's no cooling fans.

Nice review/listening impresions.

Arnold

[jimmyp58]

To Kevin's point Scott, I believe the Ref. 9's best my Krell in certain areas.  That is no easy feat but it simply is the truth.

[KJ]

Thanks for your honest listening impression. I get tired of reading peoples impresions of their new equipment which becomes, the 'best' and blows everything other equipment out of the water.

Thanks Arnold!  It's fun demoing audio gear, but everyone is unique and has their own preference.  Hopefully my comments help those interested who haven't been able to hear the Reference amps in person yet.  Ultimately, listening to them yourself is obviously best.  If people aren't able to find a local dealer or acquire them directly for a group session, let me know and I'll do what I can to help.

We'll continue to test them as they progress through the remainder of the burn-in process.  If anything changes (for better or worse), I'll report back with my thoughts.  Jason and the Nuforce folks have been openly receptive to opinions.  If I hide any challenges the amps faced now, Nuforce wouldn't have the opportunity to improve the product for later.  Now about that power switch location...

-KJ

[rustydoglim]

This is posted with permission from "Rooze", an unbiased person who hosted Wisconsin NuForce Rave recently. You can read more about the rave at www.nextlevelav.com

Hey Jim and Tyler,

Thanks for making it up to De Pere on Sunday, we had a blast with the NuForce amps, those are sweet sounding puppies!

Sorry I didn't get to spend more time in the sweet-spot, but from what I heard they seem to do most everything very well.
I've used the Carver ZR1600 ($1200) and the NuForce are very different sounding amps than the Carver (NF are more musical IMHO). I also had one of a pair of ZR1600's modified extensively, which brought its price tag to around the $3500 mark, and again, the little NuForce amps sounded more enjoyable.

I've been through a lot of amps in the last 18 months - Krell FPB200, Krell MD300 Mono's, McIntosh MC252, Belles 250i, Perreaux 3150B, Perreaux 2150B, Carver ZR's and my SimAudio's, and the NuForce should hold its head high amongst any of them.

What I hear in terms of differences between the NuForce and the SimAudio could be summarized as follows:
Sims are a bit more fleshy in the mids, where the NF are a little more lean and perhaps 'clean' sounding.
Sims are a little wider in the stage, were the NF's perhaps push the stage a little deeper.
Sims are a little tighter in the bass, but the NF's may well extend lower, given the opportunity to do so (Calipers only go down to around 35hz).
Sims have a smoother presentation where the NF's are punchier and more dynamic sounding.

So many times we hear people say 'this is much better' when they really mean 'this is different'. The better/worse judgement comes down to a personal perspective at the end of the day. The important thing about any component is that is doesn't add anything unnatural and that it retains musicality regardless of its particular character.
So I think the NF amps are a success and it will be interesting to hear what Jason has planned for their development over the next couple years.

Thanks again,

Rooze
[/b][/quote]