[Jprod]

Hello. I have had my incredible x5s for 7 months now.  Due to various circumstances I have still not reached the 250 hr break in mark but am starting to play a little with toe in.
I know that everyone’s room set up and preferences differ but I was wondering how much toe in x series owners are using. 
I initially had it at 22 degrees. Speakers are 48 inches from back wall. With this toe in my one edge is at 51 inches and the other at 45 inches from back wall
I just tried a little more toe in at 26° - too early to tell at this point
I’m thinking about also going a little less to 18°

If any one else wants to chime in it would be appreciated. 

[Big Red Machine]

With a laser pointer on the inside edge, I have the speakers firing at just outside my shoulders. This provides a spread of players across the stage and gives a decent front to back placement of players. I do the same thing with my Wilsons (they do a better job of sound stage placement).

This puts the speakers approx 8 feet apart and almost 9 feet to my ears. Room is 16 wide and 20 deep.

[jtwrace]

This provides a spread of players across the stage and gives a decent front to back placement of players. I do the same thing with my Wilsons (they do a better job of sound stage placement).

If it's only decent, you do not have them optimized. 

[Big Red Machine]

If it's only decent, you do not have them optimized.

Then provide your wisdom to the OP grand wizard!

[TomS]

With a laser pointer on the inside edge, I have the speakers firing at just outside my shoulders. ...

This is about where mine are as well, which sounded best to me. I started with a lot more toe in and backed off quite a bit, much to the better from an imaging standpoint. 19w x 17d x 8h very asymmetric room.

[JTF]

Mine are 22° right now, pulled out 55" (measured to the center), this works well in my room. I've moved them around quite a bit, everything from pointing straight out to 45°+ and placed in the corners. They also sounded good with more extreme toe in, crossing in front of the listening position.

[Jprod]

Thanks.  I am actually going to try 18 degrees which roughly puts the inside edge on my shoulders. 26 degrees sounded  a little too closed in .

[geerock]

When doing toe in, it is important to know the
distance from the side walls so that the angle of the first reflection off the rear wall can be taken into account.

[tarheeltraveler]

Hello fellow Spatial owners. I’ve had my X3s for four months and have settled on a setup I’m really happy with.  I had much more toe-in in the beginning but they are much flatter to the front wall now- 16 degrees.  Measured to the center of the 12 inch driver the X3s are 8 feet apart and 11 feet to my listening position.  That points them outboard of my shoulders.  This creates a very broad soundstage with a well-developed center.  Outboard of each speaker are two GIK free-standing panels dealing with first reflections. No treatment behind the X3s.   Lots of treatment on the ceiling and back wall.  Large area rug on the floor.  Amazing speakers as you know.  No fatigue at all.  Nice work Mr. Shaw. 

[aniwolfe]

Even better results IMHO is Extreme Toe In. I am currently using this method with my X2's and getting great results. The mids are laser sharp in the middle of the soundstage...no beaming. Its FREE and could make a Good system sound Great.

Link below from fellow AudioCircle member demonstration this easy tweak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1NP-s2p_pw

[abomwell]

I'm awaiting delivery on X5's but wonder does toe-in affect high frequency response? With most speakers I've owned less toe-in  rolls off the treble to varying degrees.

Thanks,
Al

[markmuse]

My X5's are pretty severely toed in. This created a sweet spot for serious listening that is about 2 listeners wide. Not really what I wanted but at least it is not a head in clamp situation, and in my space it provides a realistic image. On the other hand I find that casual listening elsewhere in the room has suffered a little as a result - sounding a bit honky in the mids and short of HF. I am waiting for an Aesthetix Romulus DAC (tubes) to get here and will reevaluate toe in after that has settled in.

[Mr. Big]

toe-in will impact any speaker response, also dynamics and sound pressure that you receive, and it all a balance based on your room size and how far you sit from the speakers. You have to work with what you have and that the bottom line and make the best of it. Once my speakers are fully burned in, then I start playing with the distance between the speakers and toe-in and distance from the front wall. With my Quads a 1/4" change in toes-in would change the whole field in the radiating area and dynamics, once lock-in you heard it with ease, it was like looking through a clear window into the recording with a speed and dynamics, toe them out more or in more from that point you heard the magic left. Spatial is the same in my ways but imaging wise you have to play with the toe-in along with the dynamics and getting the balance from the highs to the lows. For bass, I use a recording on the Chesky system check demo disc, (it is a standup bass Track 27), it can sound all detail and less weight and body or lots of body and less detail, depending on my toe-in and also distance the speakers are a part in a given room, buy rule if they sound lean move each speaker a few inches closer towards each other, it is all a balance, but the steps you have to do to learn how a given speaker can sound in YOUR room, not my room as you play with them you start to learn what effect the changes your speaker goes through in your room, and like education yourself you will learn how your current speakers sound it best in your audio room. I enjoy that part of buying a new speaker, but at first, it is frustrating because you may have had your last speaker set up just right and sounding good, and now you have to live with so, so sound to you learn what is needed to get your speaker sounding good again. I always start when my last speaker was, and due to my Quads being dipole, and the Saphire M3's being that way also, with the mid-woofers and woofer, I knew they have to be out from the front wall, though I played with that at first just to learn the impact of closer to the front wall and than moving forward 2" at a time same for distance apart, then lastly toe-in, 1/4" at a time till it locks in image-wise (using a mono recording), then I live with it for a while then one the day I get up and toe-in them in another 1/4" and see the effect, if it is not as good, then I can easily go back and I know I've locked the speaker into my room.     

[Desertpilot]

Just in time, Hans Beekhuyzen released his thoughts on toe-in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN51VRaSCCM.  He does address bi-polar speakers.  The illustrations are helpful.  He argues that bi-polar speakers should be pointed at the MLP.  That is not my experience.  I've adjusted toe-in numerous times.  I keep coming back to about a 15 degree toe-in for the most favorable sound.

I do have a 6 inch diffusor/absorber behind each speaker.
Speakers are about 5 feet from the front wall.
Yes!  I think the high frequencies are slightly attenuated.  But, it just sounds better to me.

I might try the "mono" pink noise he cites as a helpful aid (link below the video).

Marcus

[Tyson]

Just in time, Hans Beekhuyzen released his thoughts on toe-in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN51VRaSCCM.  He does address bi-polar speakers.  The illustrations are helpful.  He argues that bi-polar speakers should be pointed at the MLP.  That is not my experience.  I've adjusted toe-in numerous times.  I keep coming back to about a 15 degree toe-in for the most favorable sound.

I do have a 6 inch diffusor/absorber behind each speaker.
Speakers are about 5 feet from the front wall.
Yes!  I think the high frequencies are slightly attenuated.  But, it just sounds better to me.

I might try the "mono" pink noise he cites as a helpful aid (link below the video).

Marcus

Another example of where real-world experience trumps someone else's theoretical predictions.  I always take placement (and room treatment) advice with a grain of salt because too often the 'theoretical" advice only works in some rooms and not others.

[Desertpilot]

Another example of where real-world experience trumps someone else's theoretical predictions.  I always take placement (and room treatment) advice with a grain of salt because too often the 'theoretical" advice only works in some rooms and not others.

Thanks Tyson.  I just confirmed that my toe-in is 15 degrees.  If I toe-in more than 15 degrees I get a strong sense the music is coming from the speakers.  I tried extreme toe-in as well and same result.  At 15 degrees, the speakers disappear.  Soundstage is wide and deep.  I play tracks with vocals and instruments I know well and with this toe-in they are placed precisely where they should be.  So, this is the position I prefer.

I really wanted extreme toe-in to work as I have three recliners.  Center recliner is the MLP.  Wife sits in the left recliner.  As I said, it didn't work out.  Luckily for me, she doesn't care.

Marcus

[Theronbo]

FYI

I have X-Statics I built … in a 20x30 room. Speakers are along long wall.. at roughly 1/3 room length intervals… & 6’ from wall …

They are not toed in.

When I first built them I had them typical: next to wall & either side of TV & toed in about 15 deg.

& you felt like the speakers were aimed at you…

Now… I think they’re in a sweet spot … the music is just ‘in the room’.

I hav3 an X-Voce I also built…

I’ll have people listen (in stereo) & they’ll comment how good the center speaker sounds.

I’ll tell them “it’s not on, this is stero, it’s only the two tall speakers playing.”

They won’t believe me. I’ll have them lightly touch the edge of m130 driver… on the X-Static & then the X-Voce & they still almost don’t believe me.

[ric]

My experience is that toe in works as far as adjusting imaging, soundstaging, etc., and I thought when I bought OB that I would no longer need my DIY Shakti Hallographs, but I was wrong. A lot of times it depends on the recording (recording mic positions) that will tell me how I need to adjust the Hallographs. I then toe the Hallographs in or out (or straight) depending on the recording and there IS a sweet spot. It may seem like a PITA to adjust for the above, but I have them on lazy susan's, so if I'm not too lazy, I get up and move them, takes about twenty seconds.
   The point being that for me there is no definitive toe in, when minor adjustments via the Hallographs can be made. Easier than pivoting the speakers. YMMV!

[doggie]

My experience is that toe in works as far as adjusting imaging, soundstaging, etc., and I thought when I bought OB that I would no longer need my DIY Shakti Hallographs, but I was wrong. A lot of times it depends on the recording (recording mic positions) that will tell me how I need to adjust the Hallographs. I then toe the Hallographs in or out (or straight) depending on the recording and there IS a sweet spot. It may seem like a PITA to adjust for the above, but I have them on lazy susan's, so if I'm not too lazy, I get up and move them, takes about twenty seconds.
   The point being that for me there is no definitive toe in, when minor adjustments via the Hallographs can be made. Easier than pivoting the speakers. YMMV!

A picture of your own setup please. How are they placed?

I can imagine two Druid priests helping you with positioning 

Seriously. Glad that they work for you. I would not have the patience...

[ric]

Picture would not do them justice as I ended up putting them right in back of the speaker as close to the speaker as possible. I believe Jon Valin at Absolute Sound still uses them. He uses 4-6! but I will bet he does not toe them in or out depending on recording. More recently I made some cheap ones using "wiggle molding"(wood molding made for under support for corrugated roof panels) from my local lumber store--ripped them in half length wise and glued them together to mimic the hallographs, Still works and I am using one on a side wall as a diffuser and another between the speakers faced at the listener. Cost about $20 to make.