[TomW16]

I can't seem to find much information on Van Alstine kits since the product line revamp.  Does Audio by Van Alstine still offer kits for those that prefer to sling solder?

Thanks.

Tom

[EMM801]

Sadly, they do not.  Nowhere left for the DIYer to go but Curcio, Hagerman, Mapletree, and a few others.
Do-it-yourself high quality affordable audio has given way to home-theatre-in-a-box systems with fraudulent power ratings for most of the public, who neither knows or cares that there is a difference. Apparently the market has shrunk to the point that it isn't even worth writing an instruction set.
I built every system I ever owned except for my AVA pwr amp. It was very satisfying. 'Storebought' equipment costs a lot more. Just plugging it in doesn't give the same rush the first time you hear it, and I have all but walked away from the audio hobby as a result. Most of the time now I listen casually, or to headphones on my mac. I'm not holding my breath waiting for 'high fidelity', especially of the affordable variety, to recapture the interest of the general public.

[totoro]

Sadly, they do not.  Crying or Very sad Nowhere left for the DIYer to go but Curcio, Hagerman, Mapletree, and a few others.
Do-it-yourself high quality affordable audio has given way to home-theatre-in-a-box systems with fraudulent power ratings for most of the public, who neither knows or cares that there is a difference. Apparently the market has shrunk to the point that it isn't even worth writing an instruction set.
I built every system I ever owned except for my AVA pwr amp. It was very satisfying. 'Storebought' equipment costs a lot more. Just plugging it in doesn't give the same rush the first time you hear it, and I have all but walked away from the audio hobby as a result. Most of the time now I listen casually, or to headphones on my mac. I'm not holding my breath waiting for 'high fidelity', especially of the affordable variety, to recapture the interest of the general public.

You can also go the hypex/tripath charlize diycable or other class d diy route. I'd say there's actually been a bit of resurgence of diy.

[avahifi_lj]

Hi:

We still offer kits to upgrade the Dynaco PAS-3, PAT-5 and Dyna 70 products.  We discontinued the AVA branded preamp kits when we moved to the large preamp chassis.  We have thought about again offering our OmegaStar preamp in a kit, but there has been very little demand so far.

Thanks

Larry

[Brett Buck]

We have thought about again offering our OmegaStar preamp in a kit, but there has been very little demand so far.

   For what it's worth, I just bought an Omegastar EC, and would have preferred a kit - not just for saving money, but because I would have enjoyed doing it.

    Brett

[G E]

I can't seem to find much information on Van Alstine kits since the product line revamp.  Does Audio by Van Alstine still offer kits for those that prefer to sling solder?

Thanks.

Tom

I, too, recently had interest in taking on some electronics projects again.  Way back when, I built a PAT 4 kit and a couple electronic digital clocks all of which worked first try.  The PAT4 developed 60 hz hum about 6 years later and as I lived in Minneapolis at the time, found out Frank was authorized repair center.  Of course he could fix it, "but do you want us to make it better?" and the rest is history.  Several updates later I traded for the PAT5 chassis FetValve (circa 1992) and still have it and the Omega 3 (Haflerxl280).  Yes, it helps to work all switches and pots vigorously twice a year to keep them clean.  Do it when Daylight savings time changes.

Back to topic... I stuck a toe in the water by modding a friend's sacd/dvd player (Samsung 841/Toshiba 3960), mainly by beefing up power supply filter capacitors and a couple other things.  It was all through hole PC card stuff, stright forward enough.  I love the smell of solder and flux in the morning so I decided to next mod my own Pioneer 563.  I figured swapping opamps would provide the biggest  improvment so I started in.  These were all surface mount devices and, ladies and gentlemen, these are small, about the size of a flat ladybug and 8 little legs.  Getting the old ones off was a bear and did pull up one pad in the process but found a work around.  Putting the new one on was much, much easier - at least after the first leg is tacked down.  Liquid flux is your friend.  Anyhoo, all 3 opamps were swapped (put in ad823) and the sound transformation was not subtle.  Female vocals are lush, great bass impact , good high end.  Some loss of detail however.

I had the bug good. I got another Pioneer dv 563a on ebay and swapped out the front channel opamps for the ad8620 - detail is outstanding without the sibilance of stock unit, big soundstage (like the ad823), bass is a little leaner and cleaner.  I just did the 2nd unit so I haven't lived with it long so these are intial impressions.  And yes, I checked data sheets onAnalog's website to make sure I was within voltage specs, etc. There was some initial concern because the DV563a has a single rail (+12v only - not a problem for the ad823 because it is rated single or dual rail), but after some digging, learned a single supply is OK (with a few caveats)

Getting back to kits etc, I am now collecting parts to begin a headphone amp.  I discovered a forum, headwize.com and there are many projects in active discussion.  Some of these are works in progress (design-wise) and others have been around for a while.  There is input from folks around the world: USA, Finland, China, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, UK, u.s.w., truly an international undertaking. 

The project I chose is the one referred to as SOHA - a tube opamp hybrid.  The 12au7 tube B+ voltage is around 40 volts.  The design intended to keep B+ voltage under lethal limits which kept some DIYers from taking on some of the other tube desgins.  This is a builders (and designers) community and very helpful people.  It is not like the old Dyna kits with all the step by step instructions (at least not the SOHA), so the general advice is to select "noob friendly" project to start if one isnew to the scene.  I am really looking forward to this one.  I have some Grado 325's that have never been properly driven (my Fetvalve preamp does not have a built in headphone amp and my set up precludes running the Omega 3 output back to it feeding headphone jack thru dropping resistors) and am looking forward to that.

First I have to finish the sacd player, 2 more opamps to go!

G E

[dB Cooper]

I have thought about doing a PAT-5 AVA kit for awhile. The chassis has still-fairly-modern functionality and agree with the earlier post that building one's system is simply enjoyable and satisfying, apart from saving some scratch. I just wish there was a headphone amp built in instead of dropping the speaker-level signal from the power amp (does this limit the preamp's compatibility with high power amps?)

I believe that I heard that the upcoming AVA tube power amp may be made available in kit form; is this correct?

[Wayner]

I believe Frank said he is going to get the assembled Ultimate 70 version going first. The kit, if there is one, would be sometime later. Perhaps Frank can chime in on this topic.

W

[Revolvr]

AVA's kits have always been top notch. I built a Pas 3i which I still listen to, and a Super 70, also listen to. In the late 80's I completely rebuilt a Pas preamp based on Audio Basics instructions. Back then without the internet, scrounging for parts - especially high voltage caps, was a challenge. Then buying dozens of resisters and painstakingly matching L & R channel values. Sounded sweet and worth every hour spent on it. Also modified a Magnavox CD player swapping out some caps and op-amps - again per AVA Audio Basics.

Just about everything I learned about high-end audio I learned from Audio Basics.

Thanks Frank.

-- Dan

P.S. an Ultimate 70 kit is on my Christmas wish list...

[prrtraincow]

Well, there ya go.  That's why I still tenaciously cling to my old Dynaco PAT-4 preamp and Stereo 80 power amp.  I built them in the 1970s, and they still freakin' work as good as the day they were new.  I haven't had any of the breakdown issues people have complained about with these (noisy or broken pots or switches), although I did replace the volume pot (which was easy BECAUSE I BUILT THE DARN thing myself in the first place!)   

Some of you would argue that the way the old Dynaco SS stuff works is "plain awful", but honestly, I'm complerely happy with them.  I'm about to do the 1986 Van Alstine patch/upgrade to the PAT-4, mostly because I was about to get the ancient electrolytic caps out of there before they blow anyway, and I stumbled on his upgrade and figured, "why not make it a bit better while I'm at it?".

I looked at the new Van Alstine equipment, and if I could buy it in kit form for, say, half the price, maybe I could actually afford it.  But honestly, in their assembled form, they are just plain out of my league.  I must say I sympathize with them.  It's probably very hard to find customers who like to build anything with their own hands nowadays.  It's the same with every product, in every hobby.

Those Dynaco kits were simple to build, simple to understand, simple to modify. and very durable.  I also have a handful of old Heathkit equipment (non-audio) that still works.  I also have a
Stereo 400 that I use, believe it or not, as the main PA amp for my rock band.  That thing is
quite a brute.  You gotta take your hat off to a home stereo amp that can handle live music - put loud bass guitar and miked drums through a "consumer" amp and see how long it can take it!
(and we've been using it like this for about 8 years!) 

There is something very soothing and pleasant about opening that old Dynaco chassis, seeing the work I did 30 years ago, and thinking, "Ya know, I didn't do a half-bad job on this."

[avahifi]

The economics of the kit situation are simple, not enough interest in kit building of high end audio components to justify the up front cost and time to write the instruction manuals and all the necessary graphic diagrams.  Also, as the products get more sophisticated, they become harder to build and easier for mistakes to occur.  For example there are over 330 components and 750 solder connections on an Ultra preamp mother board.  If your error rate in soldering is 99.5 percent good, you are likely to have at least three bad connections. Trying to find them after the board is installed in the chassis is very difficult for either you, or for us if the kit is returned for service not working after assembly.

It just is not worth the hassle to offer kits for the new products any more, or to support them.

The cost savings to us to supply the unit as a kit is not all that much either, just the final assembly labor time (less kit parts pulling and packing time).  All the other overheads are still there.

If you want a really nice kit built preamp, buy an original Dynaco Pat-5 or Pas-3 series preamp and do our OmegaStar Pat-5 or Super Pas Three rebuild kit.

If you want an astonishingly nice vacuum tube power amp, acquire an original Dynaco St-70 (or one of the new clones available) and install our Ultimate 70 rebuild kit.

We will continue to support these products.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[dB Cooper]

A comment that relates to both prrtraincow's and Frank's observations:
One reason the Dyna kits were so user friendly was that at least in the case of the solid state units, the circuit boards were prebuilt and tested. (The kitbuilder stuffed the boards on the tube gear.) This made assembly much quicker and easier. This would probably narrow the gap between kit and assembled units so much if attempted today that NOBODY would buy a kit. IIRC, in the late Dyna/Hafler eras, the gap had narrowed to only about 20% between kit and assembled, and most customers apparently opted to spend the extra cash.

Instant gratification is too much the norm today for kitbuilding to be popular. More's the pity. I had great fun building my SCA-80, FM-5, DH-101, DH-200, Versa Kit line buffer, and Super PAS 4i.

[rustneversleeps]

I think Frank underestimated the soldering skill of some of the old hand kit builder, I can  speak for others, but I think my soldering skill and the ability to pay attention to detail are 99.999999%. The .0000001% I can find it immediately.

[OldCoder]

I doubt Frank has misjudged the skills of some of the "old hands".   
He knows he has a lot of talented customers, and I believe he respects what they can do.

I believe it is more of a numbers game.  There simply aren't enough of these "old hands" around to create the unit sales of the kits that would justify the very large number of hours it take him to do these projects.  The kids haven't embraced developing these skills as some of the old timers did.

And, whatever time he spends doing these kits is time he *cannot* spend creating either new pieces for the Ultra line, or creating improvements that will lead to better gear down the road.

I believe Frank creates this equipment as a "labor of love" much more than he does it for a revenue stream.  He really enjoys creating gear that is truly excellent.  And he gets an additional charge out of doing it at a price point that his customers can afford (so they can share his joy of music) and that points out how grossly some of his competitors inflate their prices  (or can't match his engineering at those prices).

None of it is "magic" as he likes to point out.  It is just knowing what you are doing, and learning (or discovering)what you need to know next.   Frank does this in his business as he does in his designs, and we, as customers, benefit from it.  As we have for years and years.

[Brett Buck]

One reason the Dyna kits were so user friendly was that at least in the case of the solid state units, the circuit boards were prebuilt and tested. (The kitbuilder stuffed the boards on the tube gear.) This made assembly much quicker and easier.

   Yeah, and I never really understood that. Populating the boards is the easiest part, for my money (at least before SMT parts), and soldering them is darn near trivial, and, I found, very satisfying. I guess someone thought it was easier, and no skin off my nose either way, but I never really saw what the problem was. The mechanical assembly, for example, was a lot more tedious.

    Brett
     

[rustneversleeps]

It just a change of time.

When I just started getting into electronics, I thought replacing bad components on a board would be something that I'd do for the rest of my life, I had transistor checker, tube checker, cap checker, in circuit component checker. Some people were still fixing TV for a living.

Then later, I started replacing cards, had training on soldering SMT with PACE station, but never had to use it in the field.

Hell, now we don't even replace circuit cards, we replace the whole box. And we troubleshoot a huge system. However, some of the radar systems in this country are still tube systems from years ago that never had the need to be replaced.

Building a kit....for me....it's a breeze.