AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Power Conditioning => Topic started by: vett93 on 1 Feb 2011, 08:28 pm

Title: power line treatment survey
Post by: vett93 on 1 Feb 2011, 08:28 pm
I'd like to start a thead on how we handle the power line treatment. Please post what you have, what you think of it, and what you plan to do next.

I have a 20A dedicated line with 10AWG wires. Then 2 sets of Shunyata AC duplex outlets. My digital sources and preamp are plugged in a Shunyata Guardian 6 PLC which connects to an AC outlet using a 20A LessLoss filtering power cord. The power amps are plugged in the AC outlets directly. Then I have a few filters from Alan Maher and AudioPrism at various outlets throughput the house.

I think my 2-ch sounds much better with the above treatment. The system is very quiet while idle. It does not seems to rob off details.

Since audio hobby is a life long journey, I plan to add a 2nd dedicate circuit for the digital sources and the preamp. Also move the Shunyata PLC to this 2nd circuit. Keep the power amps on the 1st circuit.

Edit 3/12/11: Instead of getting a 2nd dedicated line, I got a second power conditioner, a Blue Cricle PLC Thingee FX2, for the analog gear (preamp + power amps). It is an improvement over what I had. The edges are more refined. The subtle nuances come out from a darker background. I like it!

The reason for not getting a 2nd dedicated line is that I want to avoid ground loops. My 2-ch gears are the L/R channels for the HT system which is on another 20A circuit. I had to use a Jensen transformer between them to get rid of a hum. So I decided to keep all my 2-ch gears on the same circuit.

I believe a 20A dedicated circuit should be sufficient for my use. My speakers, Focal JMlabs Alto Utopia Be, are happy with the 200W output from my amps. So even at the current peak, they should draw less than 10A, everything included.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: jtwrace on 5 Feb 2011, 01:18 pm
I have dedicated 20A (10 gauge cryo'd) line which is feeding a PI Audio MuthaBuss. 

Future upgrades will probably a BPT Balanced Power to feed my source componenets.  I've started to build a Felix for my digital crossover and look forward to trying it on my dac too.  So maybe I'll build some more Felixs'.   :dunno:

I've gone through A LOT of power equipment and this is the best setup that I've had but think the balanced power could be the icing.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Niteshade on 5 Feb 2011, 01:42 pm
My favorite so far is isolation transformers. They're relatively inexpensive and work exceptionally well.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Guy 13 on 5 Feb 2011, 02:21 pm
My favorite so far is isolation transformers. They're relatively inexpensive and work exceptionally well.

Hi Blair and all Audio Circle members.
I agree with Blair an isolation transformer should do the trick and it's relatively cheap to buy,
however,
for the very noisy and polluted lines,
maybe a more sofisticated units should be installed,
but to me,
look as if all those line conditionner units are over priced, even if they do a good job.
In my next listening room, I will have a voltage stabilizer, here in Vietnam it's required because voltage varies a lot and at the output of the voltage stabilizer an isolation transformer of 2 KVA from 230V to 230V.
I think my future set up should take care of the noisy and unstable Vietnamese power line.
Guy 13

 
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: mgalusha on 5 Feb 2011, 09:10 pm
100A feed to my basement, 2 20A feeds to the listening room with 10GA wire. 2 Jena Labs 20A cryo outlets in each box.

Source gear has a Bybee power purifier 2.0 SE and Kaplan GS cords. PC feeding the DAC has a dual Felix as well.

Amps are plugged into another Bybee conditioner or straight into the wall, depends on which amps are in use. Kaplan GS cords on those as well.

In the interest of full disclosure - I build the Bybee conditioners under contract, so I am not exactly unbiased. I have several BPT 20A balanced conditioners as well.

mike
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: jtwrace on 5 Feb 2011, 09:18 pm
In the interest of full disclosure - I build the Bybee conditioners under contract, so I am not exactly unbiased.
mike

 :o
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: mgalusha on 6 Feb 2011, 02:30 pm
:o

I thought you knew. :)
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: jtwrace on 6 Feb 2011, 02:47 pm
I thought you knew. :)

 :shake:  No idea!
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: kingdeezie on 6 Feb 2011, 03:18 pm
I have a dedicated 20A line to my "manroom," that terminates in a Synergistic Research Tesla Plex.

Into the Tesla Plex is a Synergistic Research Powercell 10 SE with the Precision Reference PC that came with the unit. Everything is plugged into the Powercell.

Love what the Powercell did for my system.  :thumb:
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: HAL on 6 Feb 2011, 03:34 pm
I have a 20amp dedicated service into the listening room.

Start with an Uberbuss to a PS Audio P300 and Power Plant Premiere to run front end transports and PA's.  Very quiet setup.

The rest runs off batteries!   :thumb:
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Scott F. on 6 Feb 2011, 03:40 pm
I've got a dedicated 20 amp circuit that feeds my main listening room. I've tried a number of different conditioner topologies and settled with BPT (Balanced Power Technologies). It simply does a better job filtering the crap riding the mains.

In my other systems I use a passive filter (DeZorel) for my other audio gear. It does a fine job but doesn't come close to the BPT. In my home theater I use another passive (Monster HTS 3600). It's OK. The only reason I've kept it there is because it was free when I bought my plasma.

One of these days I'll finish my DIY balanced power conditioner and use it in my home theater. I expect it will make a very nice improvement.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Blackmore on 6 Feb 2011, 03:59 pm
I'm using half of a 30 amp 220 volt feed to a SquareD box to provide 15 amp circuit breaker protection.  Then I use a BPT 2.0 and a BPT CPC off the breaker box to feed the system.  Great results even though it's a bit oddball using the 220v service to derive my 120v needs
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: djbnh on 6 Feb 2011, 05:46 pm
A number of dedicated 20A lines. Digital is on its own line.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Mike82 on 9 Feb 2011, 09:19 pm
I have dedicated 20 amp lines with Isoclean outlets. I’ve had several PLCs in the past and all seemed to improve the sound to one degree or another, but the dedicated line was in my experience the most effective both sonically and cost effective.

I may try an Equitech in the future though as I haven’t used a balanced unit since I moved into the new place. But YMMV comes into play big time!
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: rean1matore on 10 Feb 2011, 06:19 pm
I think I may have found the perfect setup for my system recently.

I have both dirty power and inconsistent over-voltage at my apartment.  It usually measure somewhere around 125-128Volts at the outlet.  I started out using an Adept Response AR1P with a cryoparts 6 outlet power distributor connected to it.  Since power conditioners do not regulate the voltage I still had crappy sound most of the time except usually late at night.  The adept worked well when the voltage was closer to 120V.

To fix the over-voltage issue I just picked up a PS Audio PPP.  I first tested the PPP by itself and it worked pretty well, nothing shocking but the sound of my system definitely improved removing the hard edged sound I usually get due to the over voltage problem.  I was planning on selling the Adept as I was happy with the PPP.  Over the last few days I've been inserting the Adept in to the system with my PPP connected to it and doing quite a few A/B comparisons. 

My System with both power conditiioning and ac regeneration is quite noticeably improved with both.  The sound is now cleaner, dynamics are much better, instrument separation, detail/resolution blah blah blah, all far better than with either solution by itself.   Giving the PPP the cleanest current to work with increases the effectiiveness of the ac regeneration considerably.

Finally, I can listen and enjoy my system at any time during the day and not just late at night!!   

Funny, my a/b comparisons were prompted as I had listed the Adept on a'gon and had an offer on it.  I decided to give it a try with the PPP before selling it just in case,  glad i checked.  Just notifed the buyer that I have decided to keep it.



Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: decal on 10 Feb 2011, 08:56 pm
I guess I'm blessed with pretty clean power where I live.I have none of the problems most folks talk about on threads like these. Then again,maybe I don't hear good enough or my system isn't good enough to tell the difference!!!!!!  :duh:
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Elizabeth on 11 Mar 2011, 05:24 am
I have a Furman REF20i (for the amp, and all video stuff)
a PS Audio Premier Power set to the Multiwave ouput (for tubed stuff, and preamp) and a PS Audio P600 set to 90hz output (for the digital)
Living in a rental unit, i cannot change the electrical wiring. However i do have a set of four pairs of 12 gauge teflon Mil spec wires from a singleton 20 amp outlet to my stuff.
I started with just a few ferrite claps on A/C cords. Then bought a Adcom 315. Then a Monster 5000. Then the 7000SS. and on from there. The Furman REF20i  was purchased used, and the latest is a used PS Audio P600.
I wanted to try the P600 for the voltage frequency variations. Also the P600 is supposed to have a more 'warm' effect on the electronics with certain multiwave forms.
I am a conditioner nut.
I have several cryoed outlets, and the rest are Pass & Seymour.
I just purchased 20 Pass & Seymour 8200 with the original brass back strap and no plating on innards.. cheap, considering..(wish I could get them cryoed locally...)
Latest tweak to power is a few 'pigtails' off the A/C ends.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: drummermitchell on 12 Mar 2011, 02:34 am
I have a 60a double pole breaker at the main panel feeding a 40a breaker and a 30a breaker which is in another sub panel+a 20a breaker.
The 40 and 30 feed my two 240v Torus(60a+20a) which are fed with two 8awg cables which run to the front and back of the room and the dedicated 20a I'm using 10/2 awg for one F-113,the other 3
run off the two Torus(s).
Have to agree, isolation transformers are a huge upgrade(even though these are pricey).
Use to use all Shunyata hydras on dedicated lines and there's no comparison.
These are just so much more of everything,bringing you closer to the music.
Also went thru a few conditioners,but these are keepers.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: WGH on 12 Mar 2011, 01:07 pm
I plug everything except the amps into a Panamax 5410 Pro, I like having some surge and spike protection. I don't hear any difference in the sound with or without it.

I have 4 Felix filters that I also use between the Panamax and the electronics, this cleans up the sound and low level information is easier to hear.

Wayne
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: DougSmith on 12 Mar 2011, 02:03 pm
Standard 15 amp line; nothing special. Ceiling fan on same circuit. Everything plugged in to a surge protector.  No noise.  Happy.

- Doug
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: ArthurDent on 12 Mar 2011, 02:53 pm
Main system on 20a dedicated circuit, w/ Furman Elite 15 PFi conditioner.

Office system, std 15a circuit w/2 computers, +, Furman Station-6 conditioner. No noise, no problems.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: vhiner on 9 Jul 2011, 08:05 pm
I use two dedicated 20 amp lines..one for the front end and one for the main amp. I run my amp through a Shunyata guardian using two Shunyata Anaconda CX power cords. For the front end, I use a combination of Anaconda and Pthython CX cords into a Shunyata Hydra 8 version II. I'll be upgrading to a Shunyata Talos for the front end, in case anyone's interested in the Hydra 8 VersionII.  It's better than the V-Ray version I at a fraction of the price.

 I consider a power conditioning system to be as vital to my system as any other component...something that can be easily demonstrated by removing any of it. The difference is not subtle and I've demonstrated this gear in other people's systems. They all purchased their own conditioner and cords within a month.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: DougSmith on 9 Jul 2011, 08:51 pm
I added an APC AV15H conditioner for my system because I recently added an HTPC and it seemed convenient to have all of the components running off one unit in my new cabinet.  I wasn't experiencing any problems before, but I see now that when the AC kicks on in my house there is a large voltage drop. If I set the APC on "narrow" for voltage regulation, this causes the unit to shut off quite frequently because it is not able to compensate adequately.  The service in my house is OK (200A).  Any suggestions on how to avoid that voltage drop (I'm not sure that a dedicated line would do it since there isn't much else on the circuit I am using now)?
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: werd on 9 Jul 2011, 08:57 pm
Mine is a Torus 240v. I plug the amps into the wall or into the conditioner. Currently running the amps into the Torus.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: vhiner on 9 Jul 2011, 10:43 pm
Doug,

The real question is whether you hear a difference in your music as a result of the very brief voltage drop when the AC kicks on. If it seriously degrades, I believe the only practical solution is a power regenerator such as the kind made by PS Audio unless you want to get your audio on a dedicated pole...and that'd be wildly expensive if your utility company would even do it. However,  many would argue that the real culprit with power issues and audio components is "noise" and that a passive conditioner does the least harm and the most good.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: DougSmith on 10 Jul 2011, 01:57 am
The voltage drop makes no difference I can hear, so I can easily live with the wider voltage range setting.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: vhiner on 10 Jul 2011, 03:17 am
Doug,

While the APC is a fine surge protector, there may be equally inexpensive conditioners specifically designed for audio components that could improve your sound and reduce noise in ways you would appreciate.FWIW.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: DougSmith on 10 Jul 2011, 03:38 am
Well, it does condition as well as regulate and protect.  I had no extraneous noise to start with - even at high gain - so I'm not sure I would know what I would be experiencing the absence of if I used something "better". Anyway, I'm happy with the system.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: TONEPUB on 10 Jul 2011, 04:24 am
Dedicated 20A line for power amp with Running Springs Maxim,  Dedicated 20A line for preamp, turntables and phono preamps with Running Springs Dmitri, Dedicated 15A line for dCS Paganini and Sooloos with Running Springs Elgar.  Combination of Shunyata and RSA power cords.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: vinyl_lady on 10 Jul 2011, 04:48 am
20 amp dedicated circuit into a PS Soloist Premier outlet; UberBUSS plugged into the Soloist Premier; amp plugged directly into UberBUSS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier plugged into the other half of the Uber; tubed pre amp & phonostage, all sources and ModWright PS-9 power supply (for tubed analog output mod on the Oppo) plugged into different ciruciuts on the back of the PPP. About a dozen PS Audio Noise Harvestors plugged into various outlets in my music room and throughout the house. The noise floor is dead quiet black. I thought I had noise free power delivery until I added the Uber, which caused what noise was there to completely disappear.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: ctviggen on 10 Jul 2011, 11:28 am
I have two 20A circuits on isolated ground, hospital grade outlets, cryogenically treated.  I also installed everything myself and used cryogenically treated 10 gauge wires through EMT.  Nothing else. 
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Big Red Machine on 10 Jul 2011, 11:30 am
The breaker box is in the same room so I have a split leg 20A circuit to both side walls:

VenHaus 10 ga cryo'd Romex
4 Maestro cryo'd outlets
The rack is fed by a 5 ga, 12" direct shot DIY PC to a BPT BP2
BP2 heavily modded with ERS cloth, copper shielding, ferrites, spiked feet
The BP2 feeds the dac, SB PS, CDP, PC, and Preamp
The mono blocks are currently powered via a DIY PC to a Synergistic Powercell 4 and a pair of Triode 8 ga PC's.
Various Alan Maher PE's.

That's the current set-up and between tracks it is very quiet but noise in the recordings is noticeable and I am not sure there is a cure for that.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: rw@cn on 10 Jul 2011, 03:17 pm
Separate 20 amp lines for analog and digital. Two surge protectors in circuit breaker box and one Synergistic PowerCell 4 on each line.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Big Red Machine on 10 Jul 2011, 03:25 pm
Separate 20 amp lines for analog and digital. Two surge protectors in circuit breaker box and one Synergistic PowerCell 4 on each line.

How do the PowerCell 4's work on the sources?  I've only used my single unit on the amps.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: rw@cn on 10 Jul 2011, 03:44 pm
They work just fine indeed. The preamp (Pathos InControl) is no longer as dark and there is so much refined delicacy and detail in the presentation. The CD (Teac SA 50s) is not as affected but there is a lack of the slight grain that was apparent before. The HDTV (Pioneer plasma) has definitely improved in all respects. Nice robust blacks and sharper details. My analog rig while not the best (Basic + phono pream, ClearAudio Emotion with Benz Gold cartridge) is more of a mixed bag. Before using the PowerCell 4 almost all of my lp's sounded about the same. Now the well mastered or better maintained lp's sound stunning and the poorer mastered or maintained lp's can really hurt the ears.

The only downside may be that the music has a tendency to sound a bit light and airy. But that may be because my Magnepan 1.7's need to be better positioned and/or I need a sub. I do need to work on the room since it has been modified.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Lacee on 22 Oct 2011, 01:08 am
I use three dedicated lines, one 20 amp breaker, two 30 amp breakers.My panel is in my listening room, so I use less than 10 feet of 10 guage solid core Romex per line.
One line has an FIM blue receptacle, two have a Shunyata Venom.

A Hydra 2 is on a 30 amp line and my Audio Aero Capitole cd player and Depth sub are in that hydra.This dedicated line is only 4 feet long but I use a DIY 20 amp power cord to the Hydra made up of top of the line Furutech power cord and Rhodium 20 amp plugs.

The other 30 amp line uses a Shunyata Venom recptacle into which a 20 amp Annaconda power cord services a Hydra 8 which powers my Rega P9 TT, and manley Steelhead pre/phono.The Manley uses a 15 amp Annaconda PC.The Rega power supply uses a Cardas gold power cord.
The third dedicated line on the 20 amp breaker uses another Shunyata venom recptacle and another Annaconda Power Cord to drive my DecWare Zen Select amp.

The amp, cd player and Steelhead all use HiFI Supreme fuses.

The speakers are Ref 3A Grand Veena, the speaker wire and jumpers are Nordost Heimdals in the diagonal set up and the interconnects are also Nordost Heimdals.

I can't emphasis how important a role that the power plays in our hobby.That should be obvious to everybody, but sadly there are a lot of folks who think this appoach to better sound is filled with snake oil.

But for the rest of us who make the effort to try the stuff before we condemn or condone it,we know that the weakest links will always degrade the sound.So, whatever we can do to rid ourselves of weak links and sonic bottleknecks, the better the sound will be  and the more enjoyment we will achieve.

Many times people try one small tweak and expect a miraculous transformation and when it doesn't happen they cry foul, or snake oil.
In my experience it's all cumulative.The more things you address the more the sound improves, and even things like fuse upgrades are easy to hear .

Of all things in audio that promise sonic improvemnts, the upgraded fuse or bypassing of same(per Peter Aczel early 1980's)is one of the most beneficial and least costly power tweaks you can make.

Why there is so much apprehension to something so reasonably priced(for a tweak) is beyond my comprehension of what this hobby is supossed to be about.
 
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: DEV on 22 Oct 2011, 11:57 pm
How about one of these bad boys, no more need for any other power devises.

http://www.equitech.com/products/industrial/wall.html


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=52798)
 
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: cheap-Jack on 14 Nov 2011, 08:03 pm
Hi.
How about one of these bad boys, no more need for any other power devises.

MMmmmmm.
Yea, "bad" enough to use torroids on mains powerlines which are so often get DC offsets due to unbalanced load on phase lines. Torroids just can't take any DC offsets. Period. I'd use standard EI irons instead of torroids, as EI cores are much more forgetting than torroids for any DC offsets on powerlines.

Powerline filters are ALWAYS NEEDED regardless of whatever powerline isolation irons are used.

c-J
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts" quoted Albert Einstein.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Phil A on 14 Nov 2011, 10:17 pm
In the main system, I have a dedicated circuit to one receptacle where I have a Torus RM20.  I have secondary systems (basement and bedroom) and projectors (in the main and basement systems) and I also have a PS audio outlet, a couple of Richard Gray 300 units, a Vansevers too and I also have a bunch of Quiet Line Filters and PS Audio Noise Harvesters around
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: adydula on 14 Nov 2011, 11:29 pm
Dont want to start any arguments here but I am still a non-believer.

I have tried some 'stuff' ....different mega buck speaker wires, silver litz interconnects etc...some differnent power cords and some filtering....nothing to really make me say "WOW" gotta have this....it makes such a big difference."

I would buy into this stuff in an instant if I could actually, objectively hear the real improvement in real world tangible ways....

When I hear things like "it makes hearing the background details 'easier' to hear or things sound so clear or less conjested...well??? Whats a person to think?

I have an electrical engineering background and I like real data not emotion.
But yes I do get emotional when listening to well recorded and mastered music!!

There are so many other things to me make more of a real world difference and impact on sound quality than power line treatments.....

Maybe someday I will be close to some of you guys to actually hear what your really experiencing....

All the best
Alex
 :D



Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: vinyl_lady on 14 Nov 2011, 11:52 pm
Dont want to start any arguments here but I am still a non-believer.

I have tried some 'stuff' ....different mega buck speaker wires, silver litz interconnects etc...some differnent power cords and some filtering....nothing to really make me say "WOW" gotta have this....it makes such a big difference."

I would buy into this stuff in an instant if I could actually, objectively hear the real improvement in real world tangible ways....

When I hear things like "it makes hearing the background details 'easier' to hear or things sound so clear or less conjested...well??? Whats a person to think?

I have an electrical engineering background and I like real data not emotion.
But yes I do get emotional when listening to well recorded and mastered music!!

There are so many other things to me make more of a real world difference and impact on sound quality than power line treatments.....

Maybe someday I will be close to some of you guys to actually hear what your really experiencing....

All the best
Alex
 :D

Alex,

Order a UberBUSS from Dave at PI Audio on a 100% money back guarantee and insert it into your system. Listen for a while and then take it out and listen again. If you are not convinced, send it back. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I know at least ten AC members who have taken the challenge and not one has sent the UberBUSS back. Many of those were initially non-believers. It really works to dramatically reduce the noise entering your system from the power line and you can hear the difference. In my system the difference was not subtle. More clarity and detail. Only one person has ever returned the Uber. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86270.0

Give it a try.

Laura


Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: vhiner on 15 Nov 2011, 12:14 am
Dont want to start any arguments here but I am still a non-believer.

I have tried some 'stuff' ....different mega buck speaker wires, silver litz interconnects etc...some differnent power cords and some filtering....nothing to really make me say "WOW" gotta have this....it makes such a big difference."

I would buy into this stuff in an instant if I could actually, objectively hear the real improvement in real world tangible ways....

When I hear things like "it makes hearing the background details 'easier' to hear or things sound so clear or less conjested...well??? Whats a person to think?

I have an electrical engineering background and I like real data not emotion.
But yes I do get emotional when listening to well recorded and mastered music!!

There are so many other things to me make more of a real world difference and impact on sound quality than power line treatments.....

Maybe someday I will be close to some of you guys to actually hear what your really experiencing....

All the best
Alex
 :D

I appreciate your post I hope everyone will simply respect your experience. We hear what we hear. I hear power conditioners and wires and consider them to be major components in my system. You don't. No big deal. What we have in common is the joy of listening to great music. That's all that matters!  :thumb:
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: adydula on 15 Nov 2011, 05:42 pm
Hi Laura...thanks for that recommendation!!

Now I have something to think about!!

Alex
 :D
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: zybar on 15 Nov 2011, 05:52 pm
I have a Furman REF20i (for the amp, and all video stuff)
a PS Audio Premier Power set to the Multiwave ouput (for tubed stuff, and preamp) and a PS Audio P600 set to 90hz output (for the digital)
Living in a rental unit, i cannot change the electrical wiring. However i do have a set of four pairs of 12 gauge teflon Mil spec wires from a singleton 20 amp outlet to my stuff.
I started with just a few ferrite claps on A/C cords. Then bought a Adcom 315. Then a Monster 5000. Then the 7000SS. and on from there. The Furman REF20i  was purchased used, and the latest is a used PS Audio P600.
I wanted to try the P600 for the voltage frequency variations. Also the P600 is supposed to have a more 'warm' effect on the electronics with certain multiwave forms.
I am a conditioner nut.
I have several cryoed outlets, and the rest are Pass & Seymour.
I just purchased 20 Pass & Seymour 8200 with the original brass back strap and no plating on innards.. cheap, considering..(wish I could get them cryoed locally...)
Latest tweak to power is a few 'pigtails' off the A/C ends.

I also own the Furman REF20i and think it is great unit.   :thumb:

For my setup, everything (amps, speakers, preamp, digital front end) is plugged into a FurmanSound IT-REFERENCE 20i conditioner, which is plugged into a Pi Audio UberBuss, which is plugged into a dedicated 20 amp line.

George
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: rollo on 15 Nov 2011, 06:01 pm
  Using a dedicated circuit to feed an Uberbuss. All Triode Wire Lab PC's. Alan Maher CBF's at panel [2, wire bundle]  one at junction box before panel and one inside outlet box feeding the Uber.
  A disclaimer . We are dealers of the Uberbuss and TWL PC's.  Have been hearing some good feedback of using a BPT with the Uber . Have no hands on experience with it so no comment. 
 


charles
SMA
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: audiobat on 29 Nov 2011, 11:03 pm
Anyone tried the Isoclean Zero Ohm power panel?
Nice looking so must have a positive effect?
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Diamond Dog on 30 Nov 2011, 04:09 am
Audio all running off Bryston BIT 20 isolatio transformer ( same as Torus ). Video / PS3 etc all running off Tice Solo conditioner.

D.D.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: jeffreybehr on 17 May 2012, 10:38 pm
A few years ago I ran three 20-Amp dedicated lines, one on one leg and 2 on the other, to my musicroom.  Each line feeds 3 duplex outlets (DOs) spread across the front wall, so the 3 lines feed a total of 9 DOs in 3 locations.  Also improved the house's electrical earthing by adding two groundstakes at the breakerbox and anchoring those to the existing earth buss.  Used hospital-grade cryo'd outlets with the original dedicated lines; don't recall what brand.  For no particular reason, a couple years ago I moved the one line's circuitbreaker to the same leg as the other 2.  Stuck 5 PS Audio Noise Harvesters in various empty outlets.  Don't know that any of that improved the sound, but I definitely have fewer ground-loop problems than before. 

Bought a PS Audio Quintessence a few years ago and used it to feed all the frontend equipment.  The frontend feeds the poweramps thru long ICs, so one powerconditioner won't feed all my equipment. 

This year have bought an Audience aR12...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Power%20concdtioners/02May2012_installedfront_1000w.jpg)
...to replace the Quintessence, have improved outlets and caps in it and the PC feeding it with higher-quality stuff.  Also added my Epson LCD-type projector to that p-con via a long DIY aftermarket powercord with 2 ferrites added to the PC.  (With 12 outlets, it has plenty of individually filtered and isolated outlets to feed various pieces.)  With the AR12, the sound has improved slightly, with a larger soundstage, slightly more detail (from lower noise?) and smoother high frequencies.

Am now feeding my main monoamps with an Audience aR2p-TO...
http://10audio.com/audience_ar2p-to.htm
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Power%20concdtioners/aR2p-TOinwallfromright_1000w.jpg)
Using that has also increased subtly the size of the soundstage and reduced edginess.  Have added Tripp-Lite 500-Watt isolation-transformer-based p-cons to feed the Vandersteen 5A woofer amps and center- and surround-channel amps.  To these very inexpensively built p-cons I added better DOs, noise-filter caps, and powercords.  Bought a Tripp-Lite SpikeCube to feed the subwoofer amp.  The frontend is fed by one circuit, the main and SW poweramps by the 2nd line, and all other amps from the 3rd.

My system has never sounded better, so I suppose all this attention paid to and money spent on improving the quality of my AC power has paid off.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: jeffreybehr on 18 May 2012, 09:18 pm
Forgot to mention that I've replaced powercords for all significant equipment to Neotec-UPOCC-copper, 11- or 13g., cable and Furutech ends...and the IEC inlets to Furutech rhodium-plated pieces, some with solder connections and the later stuff with compression-screw connections.

WOW this stuff gets expensive in a hurry.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Ern Dog on 19 May 2012, 12:01 am
I'm using a Porter Port receptacle and a Running Springs Haley power conditioner.  I'd like to have a dedicated line but I don't own my home- I'm a renter, so this isn't feasible.  I was very impressed with how much the $30 Porter Port improved the sound of my rig.... wider and deeper soundstage, more authority and weight.  The Haley added another big improvement and all my components are plugged into it.  I'm using a PS Audio Plus power cord from the outlet to the Haley.  I'd like to upgrade that to a Shunyata Black Mamba CX/HC very soon.  I recently upgraded all my component power cords to using Audience Powerchords.  Those made very noticeable improvement on everything.

I had a PS Audio Quintet before using the Haley and always had mixed feelings about the Quintet.  There were times that I felt that it degraded the sound from my system, other times I felt it didn't help or hurt, and other times I felt it improved it.  So, I don't know.  With the Haley, there was never a doubt because the improvement was so obvious and immediate.

There are so many satisfied people using the Uberbuss on this forum, so in the future, I think it would be interesting to try it out and see how it compares to the Haley.

As a point of reference, my source is a Modwright tube Oppo 83, Placette Active preamp, Pass Labs XA30.5, Tyler Acoustics Linbrook system and JL Audio Fathom 10" sub.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Freo-1 on 19 May 2012, 12:10 am
This was discussed in other threads.  In my audio system, I use a line conditioner for the the preamp and input sources, but the power amp is plugged directly into the wall.  My experience is that the power conditioner does not help the power amp, and in fact can reduce it’s performance.
 
This is from the owner’s manual of the XA 30.5:
“All the usual performance metrics - power, distortion, noise, input impedance, damping factor and bandwidth have all been improved in this latest generation. The power supplies are larger, with fast rectifiers gating to larger capacitor banks. The increases in AC line noise worldwide have been addressed with heavier EMI filtering and dramatically quieter power transformers. In addition, through improved biasing regulation, the circuits give much more consistent performance under varying AC line voltages and over a variety of ambient temperatures. “
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: gooberdude on 19 May 2012, 02:21 am
The power line conditioning system in my home continues to evolve, but i'm thrilled with the current level of performance the effort brings about. 

I've placed 10 alan maher Infinity crystal boxes inside the main breaker panel, doubled up on 5 main legs.  Throughout my loft I have (3) Reference II wall wart parallel line filters from Alan Maher, and a Reference III plugged into the circuit in my living room.   With this system I cannot get any noise to be audible with an Audioprism NoiseSniffer, even at the highest sensitivity, on any outlet or circuit in my place.  A feat I could never achieve when I had (8) Audioprism wall wart filters installed.

Currently all my gear is plugged into a battery back-up psu previously used to power my office servers in the event the electricity went off.  The Opti-UPS 1500C-RM is plugged into a Felix conditioner that Big Red Machine built (maestro outlet).  All the outlets on the audio circuit are Oyaide, a few are the R1 with the WPC carbon fiber and aluminum frames.  Opti claims a perfect sine wave output when the UPS is plugged into the wall, operating in AC mode. A dubious claim no doubt, but the SQ improvement isn't subtle when compared to plugging directly into the wall.   

the Opti-UPS is the most recent addition, and a real shocker.  I have every component plugged in except the AQVOX 5V psu for usb connections.  For some reason plugging it into the Opti made the speakers hum.  Plugging the AQVOX into the spare Felix outlet solved that problem.   Running all my gear on straight batteries is no improvement, so I leave the UPS always plugged in.

Just my 2 cents, but I feel that treating the power line is as important as treating a room with acoustic products.  Before trying the UPS, all my analog gear was plugged directly into the wall and digital gear into the Felix.

matt

Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: swelfelo on 31 Jul 2012, 11:38 am
Hello,

I have a dedicated 20 amp line which runs to a PS Audio outlet. This in turn feeds a Power Wedge II for all of my components except the amps which are connected directly to the PS Audio outlet. I use Larry Smith, Synergistic Research Master Couplers and Shunyata Mamba CX HC power cables.

I plan to add a second dedicated line and will continue to add more Mambas.

Regards,

Swelfelo
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: jarcher on 23 Aug 2012, 07:31 am
First at the breaker panel an Eaton whole home surge protector, bought from home depot.  Saw other more expensive ones out there, but this one seemed to do the job.  Think every home should have one of these as a first line of defense.

Supco surge protector for the AC condensor as well in the hope that when it cycles on / off it won't spike my ac to the rest of the house. 

Home Theater Basement:

Dedicated 20AMP romex 10/3 AWG
(2) Shunyata outlets
Furman 15 DM power conditioner. Everything goes into this except power amps, which are plugged directly to outlet.
All important components get Wireworld Aurora 5 power cables.

Living Room 2 Channel Audio Room:
Oyaide R1 power outlet
Wireworld Matrix power outlet strip
All important components including power outlet strip get Wireworld Aurora 5 power cables

Need to put a dedicated line to the living room system.  House has 70+ year old power cabling (at least it's somewhat thick).  I'm experimenting w/ an old Rotel power conditioner for the source components.

Would appreciate more explanation of what folks mean by "isolation transformers" and how to get / implement. 

Also if anyone would care to comment if Shunyata & Oyaide outlets are so important, or if in the future I can "get away" with using, for example, a regular hospital grade hubbell.  That would save me $35 - $70 right there.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: AllynW on 8 Dec 2012, 10:48 pm
My home was built in 1997 and all the standard outlets are 20 amp. I use a single 20AMP dedicated circuit to power my amps.  My front end components are powered from PS Audio Power Premier which is connected to 20 amp standard household outlet. 

I installed the dedicated outlet because the Krell amp I had at the time caused a lamp to dim for a second when switched on. The Krell manual recommended 20AMP dedicated circuit. I've never noticed a difference in the music playback.  The PS Audio PPP is another story.  There was a marked improvement in my digital playback components after I started using it.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: roscoeiii on 8 Dec 2012, 11:13 pm
I recently got an Equitech 2Q to use, and will be comparing it to my Running Springs Haley when I have the chance. Likely not for a week or so though....
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Wasatch on 8 Dec 2012, 11:26 pm
I recently got an Equitech 2Q to use, and will be comparing it to my Running Springs Haley when I have the chance. Likely not for a week or so though....

Curious to hear what you think. I have an Elgar and was thinking about getting the Haley.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: roscoeiii on 8 Dec 2012, 11:50 pm
Will do.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: RPM123 on 9 Dec 2012, 01:04 am
I have two 20 amp dedicated lines. The stereo line has an Uberbuss with a Triode Wire Labs cord (simply great!) and an Alan Maher device. The (plasma) TV line has an RSA Haley with Mongoose cord and an Alan Maher wall wart. I am happy with the way things sound and look, however, I wouldn't mind trying a different power cord on the Haley or perhaps another Buss in place of it. I replaced a RSA Dimitri with an Uberbuss and haven't looked back.

Glenn
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: JerryLove on 9 Dec 2012, 03:47 pm
I installed the dedicated outlet because the Krell amp I had at the time caused a lamp to dim for a second when switched on.
And did the dimming stop?
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: AllynW on 20 Jan 2013, 03:54 pm
Jerry, Yes!  Before installing the new branch circuit I traced each outlet and devices on the household circuit I had been using.  There was a large CRT type TV, 2 computers/monitors, various light fixtures and all my stereo gear.  That was years ago and many of those devices have been replaced with green appliances.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: One and a half on 7 Jan 2014, 08:52 am
System runs at 240V symmetrical for audio power and 120V control.

25A Supply from Dist board
Monster 1750 Power Conditioner for protection
Equitech 1kVA symmetrical 120-0-120 transformer for noise reduction

Power distribution consists of a controller and distributor. Controller is a Furman PS-8R II Sequencer operating at 120V that operates four 120V coil power relays. Each relay has different timing:
0 (Always On)
1s delay (For Tuners)
5s delay for DAC
10s delay for Amplifiers

Each relay switches the 240V from the Equitech. There are four runs of 2.5mm (~12g) Romex equivalent to distributors which are Furutech FP-SWS (G) Schuko wall outlets.
Plugs are Oyaide P079e with C079 IEC sockets
Power cable : Shielded Supra 2.5mm 3 core

Distance from the Equitech to the Distributor is about 25m.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: BobM on 7 Jan 2014, 02:14 pm
I have 2 dedicated lines, both on the same phase in the circuit box. One powers the amp and sources. The other handles phono stage and preamp. The first runs into a homemade Hydra clone PC that I made many years ago for the amp and source equipment using Vishay X-rated caps and Pass & Seymore outlets touted by Bob Crump so many years ago (grip like a vise).

I had previously tried Jon Risch's choked power conditioner but found it did choke out dynamics. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze22yzp/id11.html (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze22yzp/id11.html)

I also tried his digital isolation transformer idea, connecting 2 Rat Shack transformers at the secondaries to create a balanced circuit. But I found that the 121 volts going in came out as 117V and that cut dynamics on my CD player also. But it does work wonderfully on my turntable motor :-)

I've found some benefit from using clear quartz crystals at key points and have them incorporated into the power conditioner and circuit box (yeah, they actually make an audible difference).

Power cords are a combo of Triode Wire Labs and Kaplans (the voicing is different for each) and yeah, cords definitely DO make a difference.

I've built Paul Kaplans Felicia's Felix into my cords feeding my flat panel TV's, using high current common mode chokes. These made an incredible improvement int he quality of the picture (highly recommended).
 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0)
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Occam on 7 Jan 2014, 04:28 pm
.....
I've built Paul Kaplans Felicia's into my cords feeding my flat panel TV's, using high current common mode chokes. These made an incredible improvement int he quality of the picture (highly recommended).
 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0)

Bob - Didn't you mean Felix(s) rather than Felicia(s) as you referred to common mode chokes. The Felicia was so 20th century.... :? -Paul

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25757.msg228982#msg228982
I get them confused too....
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: BobM on 7 Jan 2014, 04:38 pm
Duh - of course. Names starting with F confuse me  :roll:
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: stehno on 24 Apr 2014, 08:36 am
I own some fabulous Foundation Research line conditioners that are passive (draw no current to themselves), dedicated (one per component), bi-directional filtering (great for bi-directional digital noise), and they actually work. Their fixed power cables, plugs, IEC connectors, and internal fuses are all cryo-treated via full immersion.

Wall outlets are Furutech (cryo-treated), my 4 dedicated lines back to the service panel are double-cryo-treated (vapored). At the service panel all 4 dedicated lines are running of the same phase/leg.  My ics and scs are cryo-treated (full immersion), as are all components' internal fuses.

When I've exhibited at shows, I used a cryo'ed power cable as an extension cable to an audio-grade cryo'ed power dist. center for the gear to plug into.

All my cabling used to be double-cryo'ed, but last fall I started dealing with Jena Labs, the pioneer of cryo-treating in high-end audio and apparently most other cryo vendors use the inferior vapor treatment methodology.  As Jena Labs put it, vapor treatment is roughly the equivalent of eating half-baked cookies verses fully-baked cookies.  Based on the experiment I did with some silver ics sitting in my closet for 7 years (and other ics and scs) I completely agree with their analogy.  Apparently, that's why my request for 2nd cryo'ing showed improvements over the first.

Lastly, I replaced my separate preamp and amps with a single integrated amp, thus reducing the current draw from the wall and reducing the number of power supplies from having to operate with any remaining potential AC noise.  Which then spreads into the vibration mgmt part of the vineyard since power supplies induce significant internally-generated vibrations and the extra chassis' capture much unwanted air-borne vibrations.  But that's for another thread.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: JLM on 24 Apr 2014, 09:29 am
None.

Live in a rural area with little industry and a reasonably modern grid.
Have our own transformer.
Have a 10 year old house with all 12 gauge/20 amp circuits, whole house surge protector, and (then) new appliances.
Have three dedicated cryo'd hospital grade receptacles in my audio man cave, each on a dedicated circuit that share a common independent ground.

IMO power aberrations (the code term) are local phenomenons.  Never had an issue in the last house (50 years old, a horrible rats nest of wiring after several owners/changes), and trying 100% battery system years ago at that house and here made no sonic difference.  I've heard poor quality power, where some call better listening "the midnight hour effect" to me was just an old electrical grid after local industry shut down for the night.  I'm sure old/large/urban grids and buildings have power (and room acoustic) nightmares.  I'd probably punt (low-fi A/V and hi-fi battery based headphone systems).
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: carlosaudio on 30 Mar 2017, 04:31 am
I have a 20amp dedicated service into the listening room.

Start with an Uberbuss to a PS Audio P300 and Power Plant Premiere to run front end transports and PA's.  Very quiet setup.

The rest runs off batteries!   :thumb:
Please compare PS Audio P300 and Power Plant Premiere for source.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Photomanoh on 15 Apr 2020, 11:51 pm
I currently have two dedicated 120 lines to my setup. This alone made a significant improvement in my system. Later last year I added a PS Audio P12 Power Regenerator. The Regenerator is plugged into  one of the 120 line with the other being used for a Lenovo Laptop for streaming, lighting and misc. items. The plan was to test the Regenerator and if it didn't make a significant improvement to sent it back.
The P12 made a easily recognizable improvement that even my wife noticed. Needless to say it is part of my permanent system.
P12 added Dynamics, clarity and separation to what I already thought was a pretty good setup. However, as we all know and audiophile is never satisfied.
Make it a great Day!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207291)
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Elizabeth on 16 Apr 2020, 11:50 am
THread started in 2011. I still use the same Furman REF20 I did back then and the same PS Audio P-600 regenerator. The key change to both was replacing all duplex outlets in both with Furutech GTX-D duplex. Some the Gold, some the NCF Rhodium.
IN addition a bunch of PS Audio Noise sniffers on the lines before the conditioners and on the back of teh conditioners.
Upgraded powercords to mostly Pangea XL
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: tonyptony on 16 Apr 2020, 01:49 pm
I currently have two dedicated 120 lines to my setup. This alone made a significant improvement in my system.

Photomanoh, nice looking room. What are the dimensions?
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Big Red Machine on 16 Apr 2020, 04:36 pm
Furutech and Cardas duplexes on a single 20 amp circuit.

Verastarr and DCCA power cables (flat wire is where it's at!)

And finally, finally, finally, have found a conditioner that reduces noise and improves the overall sound w/o getting in the way (slowing the sound, bass boost, etc.) - Inakustik 3500P
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: rollo on 16 Apr 2020, 07:49 pm
  Using [ 4 ] dedicated 20A lines from a sub panel with Siemens magnetic breakers. Two lines for each mono block, one for digital components, one for line stage, TT and phono Pre. All are separately conditioned. All ground wires are same length. VooDoo and Furutech outlets. Not a dealer of such.


charles
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Early B. on 16 Apr 2020, 09:06 pm
DCCA power cables (flat wire is where it's at!)

True. I've had a pair of DCCA speaker cables for several years. Copper ribbons wrapped in swaddling clothes (ummm...cotton).
 
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: SET Man on 18 Apr 2020, 01:43 am
I currently have two dedicated 120 lines to my setup. This alone made a significant improvement in my system. Later last year I added a PS Audio P12 Power Regenerator. The Regenerator is plugged into  one of the 120 line with the other being used for a Lenovo Laptop for streaming, lighting and misc. items. The plan was to test the Regenerator and if it didn't make a significant improvement to sent it back.
The P12 made a easily recognizable improvement that even my wife noticed. Needless to say it is part of my permanent system.
P12 added Dynamics, clarity and separation to what I already thought was a pretty good setup. However, as we all know and audiophile is never satisfied.
Make it a great Day!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207291)

Hey!

   Nice spacious room there. Look like your audio room there is almost as big as my entire apartment here in NYC :icon_lol:

  Hmmm... pretty old thread, hmmm look like I've missed because I wasn't here much back then. Anyway, it is still relevant. So, here's my power line treatment...

   I also have PS Audio power regenerator. My is the first generation, the PS P600. I bought it new back in 2002 and it have been powering my entire system since then. Even though it only have 600 watts, my system only use around 180 watts. I'm running 18wpc SET amps, but even with my other amp, the 37wpc 845 SET amp I still use less than 200 watts. Of course I leave my 2 tape decks and tuner off when I'm not using them. Like you already noticed in your system, the change is easily heard.

   Before this I was using Adcome ACE-515 AC filter, it is now in my TV system feeding 40wpc Rotel integ amp, vintage JVC CDP. Other AC line treatments I have are... Monster Cable MP HTFS 1000 feeding my modem and my TV. I also built Felix Project when it was first started here. I have 9amps Felix feeding my TV after the Monster cable filter. And I have a 3 amps feeding my 13" MacBook Pro and wireless router. And some years ago I also built a knockoff of Richard Gray's power thingy after I saw a post about it here. It works, but after I tried it in my main system plugged in the same outlet with my PS Audio P600, I decided that I didn't like the sound of system with it in. So, it is now in my TV system and one thing I can tell you is that this thing works wonder with my old 27" LED TV and now with my 43" 4K LED LG TV. It is quite stunning actually!

  Anyway, so that's my AC treatment story. Although, my P600 is getting old, it is still work fine.. maybe I should think about recapping it or something. And I wonder how the new PS Audio power regenerators are. And I wish I had a dedicated 20A line, well, that's not going happen since it is a rental here. :roll:

Buddy
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Photon46 on 18 Apr 2020, 11:13 am
Buddy, I'm also an owner of first generation PS Audio power conditioner and I went through the whole recapping thing after it was 10 or twelve years old. My advice ( I know it's easy to spend someone else's money for them ) would be to seek out a new generation PS Audio Stellar P3. The sound quality improvement the new model makes over the older stuff is unbelievable and I don't use that word lightly. It's their entry level model and it's compact, simple in function, and according to a PS Audio, has the lowest output impedance of all their regenerators. It would offer plenty of power for your system. I only use mine for the front end. I also recently added a High Fidelity cable MC-1 Pro to the same outlet the P3 is on and that has also been money well spent. It just extended the benefits of the P3 to an even greater magnitude.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: SET Man on 21 Apr 2020, 09:41 pm
Buddy, I'm also an owner of first generation PS Audio power conditioner and I went through the whole recapping thing after it was 10 or twelve years old. My advice ( I know it's easy to spend someone else's money for them ) would be to seek out a new generation PS Audio Stellar P3. The sound quality improvement the new model makes over the older stuff is unbelievable and I don't use that word lightly. It's their entry level model and it's compact, simple in function, and according to a PS Audio, has the lowest output impedance of all their regenerators. It would offer plenty of power for your system. I only use mine for the front end. I also recently added a High Fidelity cable MC-1 Pro to the same outlet the P3 is on and that has also been money well spent. It just extended the benefits of the P3 to an even greater magnitude.

Hey!

     The new Stellar P3 sure small. It cost about the same as my P600 years ago. I remembered when back then I was deciding between the P300 and P600. Knowing that 300 watts would be enough, still I went with the P600 for more headroom and flexibility. Also, with that I'm nothing driving it hard at all.

   Anyway, thanks for the info. It is good to know that from someone who have used both. I'll keep that in mind.... but I must say that after checking out PS Audio's website, the DirectStream Power Plant 12 sure look sweet though. Well, for now I can't really spend that kind of money since I'm suck here in my NYC's apartment without work because of this pandemic. :( But on a bright side...I considered myself fortunate that I'm still alive and well, listening to Vivaldi's The Four Seasons through my system right now.  :)

Buddy
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: gjohnson1713 on 16 Jan 2021, 06:18 pm
I just acquired a 15 year old Balanced Power Technologies (BPT) Clean Power Center (CPC) that apparently was never used.  Absolutely pristine.  It has 2 Bybee Quantum Purifiers and what appears to be a small isolation transformer,  and it is completely lined with ERS cloth.  The 5 duplex receptacles are all American Denki, which I believe was the OEM for Oyaide at the time.  I really did not know what I way buying, but I got my system hooked up to it a couple of days ago, and it sounds great--not the least bit restrictive.  I'm curious what it will sound like after it settles in a bit.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Letitroll98 on 17 Jan 2021, 12:44 pm
This ancient thread has to hold the record for number of times revived.  Which is fine, kinda like a historical record of power conditioners.  2011, 2012, 2014, 2017, 2020, 2021, impressive.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Truder on 22 Feb 2021, 09:12 am
My dedicated line is a shielded 5x2,5 mm2 lapp cable. So 5 mm2 for L and 5 mm2 for 0. The shield is only connected to earth  in the fuses cabinet. The earth cable in the lapp is connected to its own 9 m deep rod. In the fusesbox it has its own phase and own pasco with D2 hifiTuning fuse. The house has a  separate earth rod.
In the listening room the lapp goes strait to my Puritan psm 136  without any wall contacts. I also do use 2 puritan guardians.

Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: mikeeastman on 22 Feb 2021, 01:26 pm
Truder, if you have two separate grounding rods and they are not connected together at some point you have created a potential  disaster. If a lighting strike  hits the ground the the surge will want to go to the closes rod it will then go through the wiring of the house to the second ground rod. I would recommend that you tie the ground rods together if you haven’t already done so already.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Truder on 22 Feb 2021, 02:52 pm
Thanks for the warning. I wil look after it, but I do know that may people do it this way here in the Netherlands. But again thanks and Ilook after it.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Speedskater on 2 Mar 2021, 10:40 pm
This needs repeating!
Truder, if you have two separate grounding rods and they are not connected together at some point you have created a potential  disaster.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Truder on 3 Mar 2021, 04:42 pm
I wil connect them both to each other today.
Thanks for the warning.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: rollo on 3 Mar 2021, 06:05 pm
This needs repeating!
Truder, if you have two separate grounding rods and they are not connected together at some point you have created a potential  disaster.


  VG advice just do it ASAP.
charles
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Truder on 5 Mar 2021, 03:47 pm
Some one else did ask this question at a Dutch audio forum. It was on the topic witch I did open to ask people in Holland about Your warnings about my separate earthpin on this forum:

My house is a semi-detached house, we have the meter cupboards against each other, we each have our own earth pin .... What about then?
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: mikeeastman on 5 Mar 2021, 03:57 pm
The houses maybe attached but the electrical systems are not, so not the same thing.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Truder on 5 Mar 2021, 04:04 pm
The houses maybe attached but the electrical systems are not, so not the same thing.
There You have a good point Yes.
Ps I did connect them both.

Here another answer from today at that same forum .i did translation by google so maby it does have some wrong words in the text.

21 hours ago, Roots said:
My house is a semi-detached house, we have the meter cupboards against each other, we each have our own earth pin .... What about then?

 

Exactly. Nothing by hand, before the lightning bolt all earth spikes together in the vicinity are equipotential with respect to its charged cloud that hangs directly above it.

And believe me, nothing helps if such a return stroke has found its way through your outlet boxes, and usually only a very small part of it "hits" into your outlet.

Lightning does not strike, but strikes "back", the return stroke - this is what we can also hear (air pressure, thunder, heat) see and smell, O2 becomes O3-triatomic oxygen = O3 = ozone when discharged, and when recombining to oxygen back to neutral and we see light, the beam) via everything that points upwards the higher the easier, the charge meets the "stepped leader" a few tens of meters above the ground, and then follows the total discharge, a few kilometers long.

Actually, the entire earth's surface is "charged" directly under the cloud (cloud is usually several kilometers in diameter and height) via electrical induction, this is the first "impact", but then as two capacitor plates that are charging, we see no spark or beam either. For example, if the bottom of the cloud has a negative potential, the earth's surface will be inductively positively charged.

 

Lightning therefore consists of two discharges


Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Ctconger on 13 Apr 2021, 09:19 pm
I have two 20 amp dedicated circuits into my listening room. Both are from breakers installed near the top of my breaker panel. I measured both the common and normal mode noises using a DIY adaptor and a Tektronix 222 isolated oscilloscope in my house on the two sides of the breaker box to locate the quieter side. All the low level equipment is plugged into a brick wall filter on the quieter side.
The power amps are all plugged in the other isolated outlet. no filter is used here. I use file based audio using Small Green Computer i5 which transmits data to the DAC via Ethernet which is galvanically isolated.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Ctconger on 13 Apr 2021, 09:34 pm
CAUTION:DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS YOURSELF UNLESS YOU ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT ELECTRICAL WIRING .
Hire an reliable electrician who doesn't mind this simple but time consuming task.

I found that it often pays to remove all your breakers and clean the buss bars thoroughly.
Every circuit that goes off when you open the main breaker is safer to do yourself. this is often below the biggest breaker on the panel, often 100- 200 AMPS

Use CAIG Deoxit to clean the bars, until no oxides appear, using a coarse cloth. I let this work for 20 minutes then remove the deoxit with isopropyl alcohol and finally apply Caig pro gold.
this can be repeated on the circuit breaker connection themselves but this is much slower process.

Finally make sure all the connection screws are tight before reinstalling the breakers.

Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: vac_man on 20 May 2021, 09:57 pm
For more than 18 years, I have used an old Topaz EI style 10 kVA transformer that is hard-wired in my utility room to provide a 60v-0-60v balanced power through a dedicated 10 gauge cryo'd line with a technical isolated ground.  This is a beast, weighing some 300+ lbs, and with a 10kVA capacity, it has plenty of headroom to power all of my equipment, which requires less than 1000 watts at full power, without any stress.  Balanced power provides natural noise cancellation as there is a 60v potential between the hot contact and ground and a 180 degree out-of-phase 60v potential between the neutral contact and ground.  This provides a very quiet power signal with the cancellation effect of the two out-of-phase voltages.  In addition my Topaz transformer has very low capacitance between the primary and secondary and a very narrow bandwidth (I believe only 40 - 200 Hz), which is typical for EI-style transformers, so it naturally blocks any high frequency noise or spikes coming in off the power lines. That is why this type of transformer is often preferred in recording studios, laboratory and medical applications that require high quality power.  Most commercially made balanced power applications are made with toroidal transformers.  While these are much more compact than EI-style transformers (and thus, can be packaged in a consumer friendly box), the primary and secondary windings are usually tightly coupled and have a wide frequency bandwidth -- which make them not exactly ideal for power supply applications.   My recollection is that I paid only $300 for the large Topaz transformer, so it has been the best investment I ever made on any audio gear or tweak.  However, you have to know what you are doing to wire it properly, and if you hire an electrician, you need to make sure they know the code requirements for wiring this type of device.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Speedskater on 21 May 2021, 03:32 pm
A large isolation transformer, permanently hard-wired as a Separately Derived System is an excellent idea. (everything needs to be power by the transformer)
Balanced AC power doesn't add much to the equation (except expense and  special NEC rules). None of your hi-fi equipment was designed for balanced AC power.
Never ever cyro anything in the AC power system.  Cyro will void the required UL/NEC listing.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: emailtim on 26 May 2021, 10:20 pm
I went with 4 dedicated 20-amp 120VAC audio circuits run in 10 gauge to the listening room.  Also have 2 - Equi-Tech 2RQ 2kVA 20amp +/- 60 VAC balanced power / isolation transformer units so I have plenty of configuration options to filter or go direct as some amp manufacturers suggest.  10 gauge was in part due to the distance from the circuit breaker box. 

The HT room has a 30amp 240V 5KVA Equi=Tech 5RQ (shelf/rack) +/- 60VAC balanced power / isolation transformer unit (equivalent to 3 - 20amp 120VAC circuits).  It did a great job cleaning up the plasma TV's display, so not just for audio.  The only maintenance I have had to do on it was to replace the thermostat switch a couple of times that controls the cooling fan.  When the switch failed, the cooling fan stayed on continuously when it normally is off.

https://equitech.com/model-q-shelf-or-rack-mounted-chassis-systems/ (https://equitech.com/model-q-shelf-or-rack-mounted-chassis-systems/)

Also have whole house surge protectors in the main breaker box.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: emailtim on 27 May 2021, 12:08 am
Most of us are just mere pikers in comparison to this audiophile with respect to power conditioning.

https://thevinylfactory.com/news/japanese-audiophiles-personal-utility-pole/ (https://thevinylfactory.com/news/japanese-audiophiles-personal-utility-pole/)

The ultimate quest for audio perfection.

82 year-old retired lawyer Takeo Morita is a contender for the world’s most dedicated audiophile. Nicknamed ‘Rock Grandpa’ by his local record store, Morita paid $10,000 to plant a 40 foot utility pole in his garden that he has connected to the power grid to give his hi-fi setup its own source of “pure” power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJJy6VJvSCk

Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: fideli0 on 7 Oct 2021, 07:43 pm
I have a significant transformer hum in several of my amplifiers, and I am curious where it came from. I don't remember hearing that anywhere but my current house. I am using a DC offset eliminator. Both my movie room and my stereo have dedicated 20A lines.
Has anyone had this issue and knows the answer?
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: GeorgeAb on 3 Mar 2022, 06:17 pm
20 amp circuit going to 2 channel room. I replaced all outlets using commercial LeGrand outlets and attached wire using side screws. Hubble hospital grade outlet at 2 channel system. 

PS Audio Power Conditioner Premier (regenerator) used for the two subwoofer amps, two stereo amps, preamp, active crossover and D/A converter. I use the regenerator’s multiwave setting. Thypical THD is 3% at panel and .4% out of power conditioner. Initially did not have sub amps on conditioner as limited to 1200W continuous, but put a cheapo kill a watt style plug to determine watts used. In a 26X17X8 room cranked SPL's 340W, so added sub amps and am using 430W set louder than I would listen to. Speakers are VMPS RM-V60's.

Three power warts (switching supplies) use an API Power Wedge 116. The three 120W individual isolation transformer outlets are connected to the switching supplies used for NUC computer, router, and 12V trigger devices (flip a switch and everything turns on), so the switching supplies are isolated from the line and each other.
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: MAS_audio on 25 Aug 2022, 04:11 pm
I also have a 20 amp circuit supplying a dedicated 2 channel room using all Hubble hospital grade outlets.

I have a BPT BP-2 power conditioner which recently has failed.  I think that it is the circuit breaker outlet which will not reset so I will be looking into a solution for this. 

Normally, the BPT supplies balanced power to my Parasound CD Transport and DAC combo, BAT tube preamp, a pair of Audiopax Model 88 tube monoblocks and the subwoofer amps of the Avantegarde Duo speakers.  Will need to make other arrangements temporarily until I figure out the BPT issue!
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: drummermitchell on 26 Aug 2022, 01:41 am
Still have the two Torus x 2(60a+20a)balanced.
Been flawless for Years.
Maybe 5 yrs ago I add Ed whole house protection,kind of of a bubble within a bubble protection.
The whole house surge protection is a Environmental EP-2050


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=244132)
Title: Re: power line treatment survey
Post by: Theronbo on 30 Aug 2022, 02:19 pm
I went with a reasonable priced true UPS… double converts…

Takes AC  inverts to DC & converts back to AC.

$500 … but have almost $5000 in amps, so 10% for protection seems reasonable.



Maruson 1000VA Online Double-Conversion UPS Battery Backup System & Surge Protector, True Sine Wave, Tower, Single Phase Uninterruptible Power Supply, TUV Certified, TAC-LV1K 1000VA / 900W https://a.co/d/fQ6h8Bp