[Letitroll98]

To be clear I'm not promoting that idea, just noting it's the logical conclusion to the statement that all competent amplifiers sound the same.

[brucek]

To be clear I'm not promoting that idea, just noting it's the logical conclusion to the statement that all competent amplifiers sound the same.

If their specifications are the same, of course they sound the same, unless the specifications aren't correct.

brucek

[Letitroll98]

So your position is that Bryston is ripping off its customers?  Okay then.

[Lancelot]

 
My previous post was not meant to suggest all amplifiers ( with the similar measurements ) sound the same but that when you buy anything high end ( and cheap receivers are not high end ) you are likely paying for something that doesn't directly affect sound quality (like warranty, design. looks, size , pride of ownership etc.)

I'm fine with those choices but unless you buy everything based on your own best ability to determine similar measurements ( I wouldn't think many do this who are participating here ) then criticizing others ( like buying more expensive power cords etc. ) because their non measurement purchases aren't the same as yours is unfair.

For the record I like Bryston products, have owned a number of them but that it is possible, in some cases ( I would take an Hegel H90 over a B60 ( the Hegel is a bit more than half the price of the Bryston ) because I think it is a better value. If you prefer the B60 that's great but it sounding better is very questionable.

[Elizabeth]

If their specifications are the same, of course they sound the same, unless the specifications aren't correct.

brucek

 
I've heard that fantasy before.

[Goosepond]

If their specifications are the same, of course they sound the same, unless the specifications aren't correct.

brucek

Sound the same to what? Instruments???

You and I can stand next to each other and listen to the same music and hear completely different things.

We don't hear with our ears, we hear with our brains! 

Gene

[AJinFLA]

All amplifiers don't sound the same and all cable demos aren't rigged. The latter being of some importance.

[CanadianMaestro]

Sound the same to what? Instruments???

You and I can stand next to each other and listen to the same music and hear completely different things.

We don't hear with our ears, we hear with our brains! 

Gene

That's pretty Hedy stuff there, mate.   

[brucek]

If their specifications are the same, of course they sound the same, unless the specifications aren't correct.

I don't think Bryston would be happy with having their amplifiers sound quality being equated with a mass market receiver with the same distortion specs.  That would be saying the $4k 2.5B 3 cubed amplifier sounds exactly the same as my $100 used Pioneer receiver because the distortion figures are the same.

So your position is that Bryston is ripping off its customers?  Okay then.

I don't remember writing that Bryston is ripping off its customers. Those are your words.

*************************************************
Lets look at a Bryston 4B cubed specifications:

Harmonic Distortion: ≤ .005% from 20Hz to 20kHz at 300W
Noise: ≤ -119dB @ full bandwidth
Slew Rate: >60V/µS
Power Bandwidth: <1Hz to >100kHz
Damping Factor: >500 at 20Hz (8Ω)

*************************************************
A quick look at a very reputable amplifier RB-1590 by Rotel

Harmonic Distortion: <0.03% from (20Hz–20kHz) at 350W
Noise:(IHF "A" Weighted) 120dB
Damping Factor: 300

*************************************************

Yep, that Rotel is a really nice amp, but do you see the difference in harmonic distortion and the noise A-weighting compared to the Bryston?

As I said, harmonic distortion specification along with noise is a mark of quality with regard to how the component will affect the signal passing through it.

Could you please direct me to the $100 amplifier you referenced that matches the Bryston specifications?

As I said before, components with identical THD+N connected to the same sources and speakers will sound the same. 2 + 2 = 4

The largest contributor to sound quality is from speakers and your room.

brucek

[AJinFLA]

components with identical THD+N connected to the same sources and speakers will sound the same.

That is wildly incorrect, the complex impedance of the load can create differences beyond that, as well as other metrics, but this one is officially off the rails. I'm out.

[Goosepond]

That's pretty Hedy stuff there, mate.   

Thanks mate!

Although she's gone, I'm still picking that great brain of hers. I'm not smart enough to come up with this stuff on my own.

Incidentally, my son lives in Canada. Don't know how we let him escape Louisiana. 

Gene

[CanadianMaestro]

goosepond, it's a helluva lot cooler up here in beaverland than down there in the bayous. 

@brucek: I doubt if humans can hear the difference between 0.03% and 0.005% harmonic distortion under any conditions. Many buy gear after a satisfying audition, not from just the specs.

cheers

[Russell Dawkins]

As I said before, components with identical THD+N connected to the same sources and speakers will sound the same. 2 + 2 = 4

brucek

This is breathtakingly simplistic.

Years ago, puzzled by the apparent complete lack of relationship of perceived sound quality to measured performance, triggered by the fact that some appalling-sounding Radio Shack amp measured vastly better than brilliant sounding Jadis and Ongaku amps, HiFi News of England undertook a very carefulseries of tests in an effort to find any measurable performance perameter that seemed to relate to sound quality. They came up with two:

1. the immunity of the amplifier to RF contamination of the input signal
2. clipping recovery behaviour. Most people don't realize how frequently their amps are clipping in routine use. 
Antony Michaelson does:  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=38733.40

Period.

[Goosepond]

goosepond, it's a helluva lot cooler up here in beaverland than down there in the bayous. 

cheers

Yep. I'll check back with you in Jan.

Gene

[CanadianMaestro]

This is breathtakingly simplistic.

Years ago, puzzled by the apparent complete lack of relationship of perceived sound quality to measured performance, triggered by the fact that some appalling-sounding Radio Shack amp measured vastly better than brilliant sounding Jadis and Ongaku amps, HiFi News of England undertook a very carefulseries of tests in an effort to find any measurable performance perameter that seemed to relate to sound quality. They came up with two:

1. the immunity of the amplifier to RF contamination of the input signal
2. clipping recovery behaviour. Most people don't realize how frequently their amps are clipping in routine use. 
Antony Michaelson does:  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=38733.40

Period.

That was a good read, thanks. Learned something new about power and accuracy. Glad I have the system I enjoy. Musical impressionism and accuracy in balanced dosages.

Cheers

[CanadianMaestro]

Yep. I'll check back with you in Jan.

Gene

Absolutely. With winter I can always add layers and stay warm.
With heat and humidity, I can't do much once everything is off. Still hot.
 

[Goosepond]

Hmmm! Sounds like you've experienced some of our great weather.

Gene

[CanadianMaestro]

Hmmm! Sounds like you've experienced some of our great weather.

Gene

Yes, been to N'Awlins three times, in November each time, for conferences. Long before Katrina. Great city.

Recently, 70+ people died in Quebec because of heat wave.

[Goosepond]

Yes, been to N'Awlins three times, in November each time, for conferences. Long before Katrina. Great city.

Recently, 70+ people died in Quebec because of heat wave.

Raised my family in N.O. area (Westbank). I'm now above Lake Pont. And Katrina tried to tell me to get the hell outta here but I didn't listen.

Gene

[CanadianMaestro]

Well, I hope you have good home insurance. I don't understand how people can live in hurricane alleys like Florida.

Cheers off to eat....