AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: DarqueKnight on 15 Feb 2019, 11:54 pm
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Introduction
This is the third addendum to my review of the Bryston BDP-3 digital player. This addendum will be more meaningful if the original review and the first two addendums are read first.
The original BDP-3 review is here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161770.0
The first addendum, a review of the iFi Audio iPower power supply used with BDP-3's external hard drive enclosure is here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161895.0
The second addendum, a review of the iFi Audio Mercury3.0 USB 3.0 cable, used between the external hard drive enclosure and the BDP-3, is here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162115.0
My listening evaluation methodology and the musical selections used are discussed in detail in the original BDP-3 review, therefore they will not be rehashed here.
My music library spans over 3 TB and is contained in a Western Digital Black 6 TB hard disk drive, which is contained in a Rosewill Armer 304X-APU3-35B fanned aluminum enclosure with eSATA and USB 3 interfaces.
The external hard drive configuration, in stock form and with upgraded USB 3 cable and upgraded power supply, sonically outperformed the following internal drives:
1. Samsung 1 TB 850 EVO solid state drive.
2. Western Digital 750 GB WD7500BPKT hard disk drive.
3. HGST Travelstar 1 TB 0S03563 hard disk drive. HGST is a subsidiary of Western Digital.
Choices are limited for 2.5" drives with capacity larger than than 3 TB:
1. Seagate 4 TB HDD ($80 - $120).
2. Seagate 5 TB HDD ($130 - $150).
3. Samsung 4 TB SSD 860 EVO ($620 - $698).
4. Samsung 4 TB SSD 860 PRO ($910 - $998).
5. Samsung 4 TB SSD 850 EVO ($990).
The Samsung solid state drives are not attractive options because of their cost and because I have not had good experiences with the sound quality of SSDs over 1TB in music storage applications. Cramming more memory cells into the same space means the memory cells are proportionally smaller...and more affected by the electrical noise in adjacent cells.
I stopped using Seagate drives many years ago due to multiple incidents with drive failures. All of those drive failures occurred with the drives installed in personal computers, and never in an device for which they were not designed. However, based on the mostly positive reviews I read for the 5 TB Seagate 2.5" drive (ST5000LM000), I decided to try it.
Setup
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190641)
Figure 1. All my music fits on a drive 3.95" x 2.75" x 0.59", about the size of a deck of cards.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190642)
Figure 2. The Seagate 5 TB drive ran very quiet and cool inside the the BDP-3.
The Seagate drive was formatted in NTFS format. It took 27 hours and 40 minutes to transfer 3.1 TB of music files from the BDP-3's external hard drive to the Seagate drive with a desktop computer. The external drive's enclosure was connected to the computer with its stock USB 3 cable. The Seagate drive was not in an enclosure and was connected to the desktop computer with a SATA to USB 3 cable. After file copying was completed, the Seagate had reached a temperature of 104.9 degrees Fahrenheit. After installation in the BDP-3, the Seagate reached a maximum temperature of 97.6 degrees Fahrenheit after two hours of continuous playback.
The Seagate 5 TB drive supports five power management modes, including standby and sleep. However, those modes must be switched on by the host computer. To my knowledge, the BDP-3 does not have a power management interface for hard drives similar to Windows Power Options. That means the drive is going to be spinning as long as the BDP-3 is turned on. I prefer the sound quality benefits of leaving my two channel stereo on continuously. Therefore, turning the BDP-3 off just to give the internal drive a rest is not an option.
Seagate's technical support informed me that the drive should last two to three years in continuous spinning mode. Seagate's limited warranty is two years. Warranty replacement is with refurbished product.
The Sound
There was no perceived difference in sound character or sound quality between identical DSD64 music files played from the external Western digital hard drive, in the upgraded enclosure, or the internal Seagate hard drive. The same music selections and evaluation methodology used in the BDP-3 review were used in this addendum evaluation. Image placement, tactile sensation, clarity, detail, speed, image weight...everything was identical.
As expected, the internal Seagate drive had the better sound when the external drive enclosure's stock USB cable and stock power supply were reinstalled. The differences were very easy to hear. Switching between the same song from either the internal Seagate drive or the external Western Digital drive, the Seagate source sounded apparently louder, there was more detail in background percussion instruments and the image weight at the sides of the sound stage was heavier.
Diminishing Returns
There is significant difference in cost between the internal Seagate drive and the external Western Digital drive with its enclosure upgrades. Retail prices are listed.
Seagate 5 TB ST5000LM000 hard drive, $220
Western Digital Black 6 TB WD6002DZWX hard drive, $250
iFi Audio Mercury3.0 USB 3 cable, $269
Sorbothane pad, $25
iFi Audio iPower DC power supply, $49
Rosewill Armer 304X-APU3-35B hard drive enclosure, $50
Dynamat Xtreme, $5
Total for upgraded external drive option: $648
If the iPower power supply is replaced by a TeraDak DC-30W linear power supply ($150), then the external drive option increases to $749.
The external Western Digital external drive option costs nearly 3X more, or over 3X, depending on the enclosure power supply, yet offers no sonic advantage, in my system, over the internal Seagate drive option.
The external drive provides faster updating via direct connection to a desktop computer compared to updating the internal drive over the network. Next, there is the very valuable benefit of the external enclosure spinning down the drive after 20 minutes of inactivity. Finally, there is the psychological benefit of not wondering when the Seagate is going to "do a Seagate" and fail, blow up, or just stop working.
Further Study
I am waiting on the arrival of a TeraDak DC-30W 5V/2A linear power supply for the external hard drive enclosure. I also ordered a second Seagate 5 TB drive that will be used for two evaluations:
1. In the BDP-2 digital player in my two channel system at work.
2. Installed in the external hard drive enclosure in my two channel system at home and compared to the internal identical model 5 TB drive.
Associated Equipment
Bryston BDP-3 digital player
PS Audio PowerBase isolation platforms for DAC, BDP-3, and U-Clock
22 pound granite slabs to couple source components to isolation platforms
Black Diamond Racing Isolation Mini Pits and Mk IV Cones
dCS Puccini U-Clock word clock
dCS Debussy DAC
Rosewill Armer RX304-APU3-35B hard drive enclosure with 6 TB WD Black hard drive
iFi Audio iPower power supply for hard drive enclosure
iFi Audio Mercury3.0 USB 3 cable
Pass Labs XP-30 line level preamplifier
Pass Labs X600.5 monoblock power amplifiers
AudioQuest Sky XLR interconnects
AudioQuest Everest speaker cables
Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy CryoSilver digital coaxial cable - RCA connectors
Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy CryoSilver digital coaxial cable - BNC connectors
Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy CryoSilver USB 2.0 dual leg cable
PS Audio PerfectWave AC-12 power cords
PS Audio PerfectWave P-10 AC regenerator
Polk Audio SDA SRS 1.2TL loudspeakers (heavily modified)
Salamander Synergy Triple 30 audio credenza
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Now to find out where the LPS brings things. I'm surprised you haven't yet checked out a WD My Passport portable hard drive. These are 2.5 inch, 5400 RPM, available in 4TB size and very cheap here at Costco in Canada ($110ish CAD). Must be even cheaper in US. These don't consume much power and I've even managed to power it from the front port of the BDP-1 which is the weakest one power wise, so the BDP-2 and BDP-3 will easily power them. They automatically spin down after a few minutes. I've been using a 2TB one with the BDP-1 for 3+ years 24/7 plugged in and turned on. It gives you the benefit of being able to plug stuff out for quick transfer to computer unlike internal. I have the 4TB as a backup for the 2TB library, but haven't actually tried it for playback with the BDP-1. I'm not sure if there will be any differences between the old 2TB and the newer 4TB sound wise. Just letting you know that the option exists and should fit all your needs.
This is the 4TB I have for reference. Prices are different in store: https://www.costco.ca/WD-4-TB-Black-My-Passport-Portable-Hard-Drive.product.100369213.html
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I'm surprised you haven't yet checked out a WD My Passport portable hard drive.
I have.
On the same day in September 2014 that I ordered a BDP-1, I also ordered a WD My Passport Ultra 1 TB drive and a WD Blue 1 TB WD10EZEX drive, along with a Vantec enclosure for the WD Blue.
The Passport won.
The Passport was replaced with a Samsung 840 EVO 500 GB solid state drive in October 2014, but not because the Samsung SSD was better. I preferred the Samsung because it had no moving parts. I said this of my Passport and Samsung SSD comparison:
"I compared a Samsung 840 EVO SATA III 500 GB solid state drive to a Western Digital My Passport 1 TB disk drive. There was no difference in test signal measurements, no perceived difference in sound quality, and no difference in file access timing and performance."
I agree that it would be a good idea to look at the Passport drives again.
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Deleted. Duplicate post.
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So three things remain now:
1) Passport portable
2) Upcoming Teradak LPS
3) Pulling music from a NAS
I'd like to see your opinion on NAS configurations. :popcorn:
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The Seagate 5 TB drive is now in the BDP-2 in my system at work...for long term evaluation. I hope @unincognito will be able to add disk drive power management in a future firmware update.
In my two channel stereo system, I tried a second Seagate 5 TB drive in the Rosewill enclosure. With the enclosure's stock power supply and stock
USB 3.0 cable, the internal Seagate 5 TB drive sounded better. When the enclosure's stock power supply and USB 3.0 cable were replaced with the
iPower power supply and Mercury3.0 USB 3.0 cable, I did not hear a difference between the internal 5 TB drive and the external 5 TB drive.
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If it's of interest to anyone, it seems the cheapest and quickest way to get the Seagate drives is to remove one from a portable backup drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAn73Hw2Vz0
(I just did it to get another 4tb drive, ~ 60% price of a bare drive and just walked into a local B&M. No warranty of course though.)
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Does anyone know which drives are inside the WD 4TB portable drives I linked above? WD doesn’t sell 4TB 2.5” drives separately.
It’d also be good to get clarity from Bryston on which drives are suitable for internal use and can spin down after a few minutes.
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Acording to this video, those ones don't have a SATA interface on them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc6VdpaT_2g
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I have taken the 5 TB Seagate drive out of the BDP-2 at work and put it in an external Rosewill enclosure that spins it down after 20 minutes.
The Rosewill enclosure's stock switch mode power suppy was replaced with an iFi Audio iPower switch mode power supply. The iPower power
supply will soon be replaced with a TeraDak DC-30 linear power supply.
I now have a TeraDak DC-30 LPS powering the external hard drive enclosure used with the BDP-3 in my home two channel stereo system. I auditioned
that DC-30 in my work system and the results were similarly spectacular as what I achieved at home.
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Acording to this video, those ones don't have a SATA interface on them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc6VdpaT_2g
Thanks. Does anyone know why WD doesn't offer 2.5" 4TB drives to buy separately? The one in that video is a Blue 4TB. I see them limited to 2TB.
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I have taken the 5 TB Seagate drive out of the BDP-2 at work and put it in an external Rosewill enclosure that spins it down after 20 minutes.
The Rosewill enclosure's stock switch mode power suppy was replaced with an iFi Audio iPower switch mode power supply. The iPower power
supply will soon be replaced with a TeraDak DC-30 linear power supply.
I now have a TeraDak DC-30 LPS powering the external hard drive enclosure used with the BDP-3 in my home two channel stereo system. I auditioned
that DC-30 in my work system and the results were similarly spectacular as what I achieved at home.
So you prefer the external 2.5 with LPS or the internal, or are they the same?
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So you prefer the external 2.5 with LPS or the internal, or are they the same?
The external 2.5 with LPS is significantly better in every stereophonic performance aspect. My mind was made up
to order a second LPS for my work system after the first 10 seconds of listening.
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Thanks. Lastly, can you please try some files from your NAS? I’d love to know where that fits in.
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I loaded 7 DSD music files into my video server NAS (a Synology DS918+) and compared them to the same 7 songs from the external HDD connected to the BDP-3.
I heard no difference at all between the NAS songs and their HDD counterparts.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191134)
There were a couple of operational hiccups:
1. The sound would infrequently drop out for a couple of seconds.
2. Sometimes, when the music would restart after a dropout, it would stutter for a second or two..
3. Sometimes, when pressing play after the music had been stopped for a few minutes, the sound would stutter for a few seconds.
When streaming 2K and 4K movies from the NAS to any of my home's TVs over the wireless AC network, I never get dropouts.
The data transmission chain is as follows:
Synology NAS ==>Ethernet Cable==>Wireless AC Range Extender #2 ==>Wireless Air Interface==>Wireless AC Range Extender #1==>Ethernet Cable==>BDP-3.
In summary:
1. Internal 5 TB Seagate HDD sounds better than stock external 6 TB WD Black HDD.
2. 6 TB WD Black HDD with iPower SMPS and Mercury3.0 USB 3 cable sounds the same as internal 5 TB Seagate HDD.
3. 6 TB WD Black HDD with TeraDak LPS and Mercury3.0 USB 3 cable sounds better than internal 5 TB Seagate HDD.
4. Synology NAS sounds the same as 6 TB WD Black HDD with TeraDak LPS and Mercury3.0 USB 3 cable, which means that both external
options sound better than the internal Seagate 5 TB drive option.
***Edit***
Using a wired connection between the NAS and BDP-3 solved the issues with dropouts and stuttering.
I ran a 50 foot Ethernet cable from the NAS's 2nd Ethernet jack to the Wireless AC range extender that the BDP-3 is plugged into.
The new data transmission chain is:
Synology NAS ==>50' Ethernet Cable==>Wireless AC Range Extender #1==>Ethernet Cable==>BDP-3.
I don't know why I am getting dropouts with the wireless connection. A quick Internet search showed that other Synology NAS owners have had the same issues with audio over wireless,
but I haven't found a solution yet. It's not a pressing issue though, since I would run a wired connection if I decided to set up a NAS for my stereo system.
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Thanks for the all the work! Just to clarify, have you tried both the 2.5" and 3.5" drives in the external enclosure when used with the LPS, or only the the 3.5? If you've used both, any differences? BTW have you tried Roon? I'd have liked to see you compare NAS/MPD combo against Roon. Thanks for all the posts!
The cheapest NAS option for the BDP would be something like a Synology DS119j.
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DS119j is bottom of the barrel, the one I had failed after a month.
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Just to clarify, have you tried both the 2.5" and 3.5" drives in the external enclosure when used with the LPS, or only the the 3.5? If you've used both, any differences?
Yes. I have tried the 2.5" 5 TB Seagate drive in a Rosewill enclosure with the LPS and I have tried a 3.5" WD Black 6 TB drive in a Rosewill enclosure with the LPS. There was no audible difference.
BTW have you tried Roon? I'd have liked to see you compare NAS/MPD combo against Roon.
I have not tried Roon. I really don't have a need for Roon's enhanced music management features.
The cheapest NAS option for the BDP would be something like a Synology DS119j.
I would opt for one of the Plus series units like the DS218+ or DS718+.
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Introduction
The Samsung solid state drives are not attractive options because of their cost and because I have not had good experiences with the sound quality of SSDs over 1TB in music storage applications. Cramming more memory cells into the same space means the memory cells are proportionally smaller...and more affected by the electrical noise in adjacent cells.
that's funny :duh: :roll: :o
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that's funny :duh: :roll: :o
When you get through face-palming, eye-rolling, and looking surprised, the Samsung white paper at the link below may provide some useful information:
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi.static/2bit_V-NAND_technology_White_Paper-1.pdf
Quoting from the above referenced white paper:
"Cell-to-cell interference
Technical challenges from continued shrinking arise when an
electrical charge in a cell flows into an adjacent cell creating cell-to-
cell interference, which leads to data corruption. When a cell
size goes below 20 nm, the chance for interference drastically
increases thereby making it unreliable." (page 2)
and
"Samsung's V-NAND flash memory boasts a cell-to-cell
interference-free structure using Charge Trap Flash (CTF)
technology. The basis for CTF is a non-conductive layer of
silicon nitride (SiN) that temporarily traps electrical charges to
maintain cell integrity. This layer has been modified into a threedimensional
form that wraps around the control gate of the cell,
acting as an insulator that holds charges, thereby preventing
data corruption caused by cell-to-cell interference." (page 2)
Therefore, Samsung claims to have mitigated the data corruption effects of
adjacent cell noise, but they have not gotten rid of the noise itself, which, of course, will increas
as the number of cells increases. Another source of electrical noise in SSDs and HDDs is the drive
controller circuitry, which does more work, and thereby generates more electrical noise, in larger capacity drives.
For a standard size 2.5" solid state drive designed to fit in laptops, the external/internal dimensions cannot change.
That means the memory cells themselves have to get proportionately smaller as cell capacity is doubled and quadrupled.
As cell density increases, so does the noise density of the drive.
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@JohnR that's unfortunate to hear. Did you get a replacement for it? For my purpose, I would not be using it for anything except for use with Bryston and MPD. Nothing else needed. No need for backups, transcoding, or RAID functionality. However, if it will struggle even in that role or have reliability problems, then it's not worth it.
@DarqueKnight How's the audible mechanical noise from both of those WD 6TB drive (7200 RPM) and the Seagate 5TB (5400 RPM) when placed within the Rosewill enclosure? For reference, I really like my portable 5400 RPM WD My Passport as they are near silent and you don't hear any seeking noise. The WD My Book 3.5" (7200 RPM) desktop counterpart are much noisier audibly.
The other thing I've been trying again today is DLNA renderer mode via Audirvana Plus. Have you tried DLNA mode vs. MPD with NAS?
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@JohnR that's unfortunate to hear. Did you get a replacement for it?
I'm still waiting for it to be replaced by the retailer under warranty.
For my purpose, I would not be using it for anything except for use with Bryston and MPD. Nothing else needed. No need for backups, transcoding, or RAID functionality. However, if it will struggle even in that role or have reliability problems, then it's not worth it.
One sample isn't statistically significant, of course, but I expect the models suggested by DarqueKnight would have better build quality.
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Why does anyone here not call "BS" on the original poster? The Samsung SSDs have an uncorrectable bit rate error of 1 in 1e17
"Bits affecting other bits" is pure unadulterated crap
Bapcha
Also a NAND Flash expert
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Why does anyone here not call "BS" on the original poster? The Samsung SSDs have an uncorrectable bit rate error of 1 in 1e17
"Bits affecting other bits" is pure unadulterated crap
Bapcha
Also a NAND Flash expert
If you really are a NAND flash expert, you should know that there will still be residual electrical noise in a storage device after noise abatement for data integrity has been accomplished. In other words,
you can have electrical noise in a data storage device that has audible effects, yet have bit perfect data transmission.
Also, your reading comprehension skills appear to be lacking. I never said "bits affect other bits". I specifically said:
"Cramming more memory cells into the same space means the memory cells are proportionally smaller...and more affected by the electrical noise in adjacent cells."
To reiterate, a storage device can have an astronomically low bit rate error, but still sound like crap in a high resolution stereo system due to the noise characteristics of the storage device.
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@DarqueKnight How's the audible mechanical noise from both of those WD 6TB drive (7200 RPM) and the Seagate 5TB (5400 RPM) when placed within the Rosewill enclosure?
The other thing I've been trying again today is DLNA renderer mode via Audirvana Plus. Have you tried DLNA mode vs. MPD with NAS?
I have not tried DLNA vs. MPD with my NAS.
I hear no mechanical noise from either the WD 6TB or the Seagate 5TB. However, the WD 6TB drive did cause a low level hum in the wood cabinet it sits on. The hum
was eliminated by placing the enclosure's front and rear cradle feet on two 3.5" x 3.5"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads. I also have 1" x 2"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads under my Synology DS918+ NAS.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U92TE/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The 2.5" Seagate drive did not generate any audible hum due to its vibrations.
The Rosewill's fan is whisper quiet. I cannot hear it unless my ear is within one foot of it.
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What part of 1 uncorrectable bit error out of 100,000,000,000,000,000 (1e17) bits do you NOT understand?
The residual electrical noise will NOT affect your music. Peter Lyngdorf agrees with me (digital is digital).
Please peddle your snake oil to idiots who do not understand digital or analog circuits (which is what you probably do anyway)
Sincerely,
Bapcha
If you really are a NAND flash expert, you should know that there will still be residual electrical noise in a storage device after noise abatement for data integrity has been accomplished. In other words,
you can have electrical noise in a data storage device that has audible effects, yet have bit perfect data transmission.
Also, your reading comprehension skills appear to be lacking. I never said "bits affect other bits". I specifically said:
"Cramming more memory cells into the same space means the memory cells are proportionally smaller...and more affected by the electrical noise in adjacent cells."
To reiterate, a storage device can have an astronomically low bit rate error, but still sound like crap in a high resolution stereo system due to the noise characteristics of the storage device.
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What part of 1 uncorrectable bit error out of 100,000,000,000,000,000 (1e17) bits do you NOT understand?
The residual electrical noise will NOT affect your music. Peter Lyngdorf agrees with me (digital is digital).
Please peddle your snake oil to idiots who do not understand digital or analog circuits (which is what you probably do anyway)
Sincerely,
Bapcha
The Internet is not the proper place to work out your insecurities, self esteem, and anger issues.
I'm glad you have found someone who agrees with you. You should just talk to him rather than coming here hurling insults
and trying to bully people into agreeing with you.
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I have not tried DLNA vs. MPD with my NAS.
I hear no mechanical noise from either the WD 6TB or the Seagate 5TB. However, the WD 6TB drive did cause a low level hum in the wood cabinet it sits on. The hum
was eliminated by placing the enclosure's front and rear cradle feet on two 3.5" x 3.5"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads. I also have 1" x 2"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads under my Synology DS918+ NAS.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U92TE/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The 2.5" Seagate drive did not generate any audible hum due to its vibrations.
The Rosewill's fan is whisper quiet. I cannot hear it unless my ear is within one foot of it.
That's good to know about the vibration and hum. Thanks.
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Hi guys, I picked up a Synology DS119J for use with BDP and MPD mode. I haven't bought an internal hard drive for it yet. I was considering a WD Red 4TB. I will do that if the following plan doesn't work.
I remembered I have a spare 3.5" 500GB Hitachi hard drive lying inside an old Rogers PVR box. It's out of reach currently being locked with security Torx screws, but will have access to it soon. I was wondering if I could use that spare hard drive inside the Synology to run the OS and initial setup. Then I thought I could plug in my current My Passport hard drives to the USB port of the Synology and have the WD Passport drive accessible to the BDP for the music. Will this work? In the past with my old router, I've plugged my hard drives into its USB port and it was seen by the BDP and it worked fine. Will this also work on the Synology? Thanks!
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The ports are USB2 so at best it will be pretty slow.
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The ports on the BDP-1 and my iMac are also USB 2.0 and the ethernet port on the BDP-1 is 100mbps. I never have problem for audio playback via Roon or DLNA. I'm not looking to transfer music via this method, but just for playback pulling for MPD. It should still work right?
Perhaps anyone from Bryston could advice that may have experience with Synology?
EDIT: Found this: https://www.itwriting.com/blog/11217-review-synology-ds119j-great-system-but-single-bay-and-underpowered-hardware-make-it-worth-spending-a-bit-more.html
"If you attach a USB storage device to a port on the DS119j, it shows up automatically as usbshare1 on the network. This means that any USB drive becomes network storage, a handy feature, though only at USB 2.0 speed."
Looks like it should work.
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When you get through face-palming, eye-rolling, and looking surprised, the Samsung white paper at the link below may provide some useful information:
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi.static/2bit_V-NAND_technology_White_Paper-1.pdf
Quoting from the above referenced white paper:
"Cell-to-cell interference
Technical challenges from continued shrinking arise when an
electrical charge in a cell flows into an adjacent cell creating cell-to-
cell interference, which leads to data corruption. When a cell
size goes below 20 nm, the chance for interference drastically
increases thereby making it unreliable." (page 2)
and
"Samsung's V-NAND flash memory boasts a cell-to-cell
interference-free structure using Charge Trap Flash (CTF)
technology. The basis for CTF is a non-conductive layer of
silicon nitride (SiN) that temporarily traps electrical charges to
maintain cell integrity. This layer has been modified into a threedimensional
form that wraps around the control gate of the cell,
acting as an insulator that holds charges, thereby preventing
data corruption caused by cell-to-cell interference." (page 2)
Therefore, Samsung claims to have mitigated the data corruption effects of
adjacent cell noise, but they have not gotten rid of the noise itself, which, of course, will increas
as the number of cells increases. Another source of electrical noise in SSDs and HDDs is the drive
controller circuitry, which does more work, and thereby generates more electrical noise, in larger capacity drives.
For a standard size 2.5" solid state drive designed to fit in laptops, the external/internal dimensions cannot change.
That means the memory cells themselves have to get proportionately smaller as cell capacity is doubled and quadrupled.
As cell density increases, so does the noise density of the drive.
Sorry dude all that may be true but I doubt if I can hear the difference.
Ric
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Got the DS119J working. Tested from both the spare internal (hitachi ds7sac500 - 3.5" 7200RPM) and the USB attached My Passport into the NAS's USB 2.0 port. Working fine as expected. I have the NAS in the room, so might consider a quieter internal drive in the future. More importantly, I am worried about drives running all the time. Both the internal and the attached My Passport are spinning. MPD has finished updating the folder list. The NAS and BDP are connected to a separate spare router with it's wifi disabled. The only thing else connected to it is the iMac. There is no other activity going on. Any tips about what, if anything, I should do about those hard drives spinning all the time?
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I don't know about the external drive but the internal one will spin down, there's a setting for it somewhere in DSM.
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I don't know about the external drive but the internal one will spin down, there's a setting for it somewhere in DSM.
Indeed. Yesterday, while I had it set up but hadn't added the music share to the BDP or added the portable in the back, the internal hard drive did go to sleep multiple times when I wasn't doing anything to it. So I know my internal hard drive works fine with sleep. Not sure what's the deal today. Is it because I have added the folders to the BDP's NAS list? Or is the external drive (running as NTFS from before) forcing itself and the internal to run constantly? I haven't added any apps or other features aside from the basic required setup.
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Sounds frustrating.. here's a post and thread from a while ago, Bryston says the BDP shouldn't prevent hibernation - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132455.msg1404018#msg1404018
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I've read that post. I've played around in the Control Panel -> Hardware & Power -> Hiberation
I've set both "internal and external sata" and "USB hard disks" to 15 minutes. I tried different numbers and power cycled the unit a few times.
The internal drive does spin down most of the time after not being in use. Today, there was a period of time where the internal just wouldn't spin down even after an hour. I power cycled it and it worked fine after. Let's see how the internal's behaviour holds up over time, but at least I know it works right.
The USB WD My Passport on the other hand attached to the NAS has always been on. It's always spinning. I turned off the BDP-1 and put my iMac to sleep to remove them from the equation. The internal went to sleep, but the WD My Passport spins non stop. When connected to iMac, it spins down correctly as it does when attached to the BDP-1's USB port directly. It's only with the Synology that it's giving me trouble.
What else can I do to fix the situation? Is it the formatting of the WD? It's a 4TB drive and shows two partition. One is vfat of 197 MB and the other is ntfs 3.7TB. I cannot have this drive run 24/7.
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I read somewhere that you need to exit DSM. Other than that, sorry but I have no idea :(
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Yeah I quit every single app on the iMac. Nothing accessing the Synology. It's been spinning non-stop. I'm going to try another My Passport that is 2TB but is formatted in FAT32 for use with BDP-1. Perhaps that will have better luck. If that doesn't work, I might have to give in and buy an internal drive. :duh:
If anyone has any other advice/experience, please let me know.
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So the 2TB My Passport formatted in FAT worked fine and does go to sleep. Problem solved for now. Would still like to know what was the problem with the other 4TB portable drive. I have a few other WD portable and desktop drives that I might try to see whether they hibernate or not.
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Well that's progress at least :thumb:
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Yeah, the 2TB Passport is synced with the BDP-1 and the hibernation feature is still working fine.
The NAS and hard drive does become active and spin up a few times throughout the day and then goes to sleep. My next plan was to put a small SSD inside the DS119J for added silence and continue with the music on the My Passport since they are barely audible in a silent room, but it looks like that's not possible. Not a big deal at all. Playback from NAS is great and without any performance issues. It does sound a bit different than playback from the USB portable drive plugged into the BDP-1. It took a bit getting used to. I can go louder with the NAS and was turning it up more throughout. Initially, it felt as if the weight and immediacy of the music had gone down. But that just might be because it doesn't stress on transients. As I'm getting used it, I'm liking it more and more each day. It's easier on the ears.
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I imagine you just need an adapter bracket like this (never used one myself):
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817979016
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I found the adapter for 2.5" drives. If you search for "synology disk holder type c" you'll find this L shaped part that works. That's not the issue. The issue the rep guy online told me was that under the specifications page for DS119J, they list only support for 3.5" and 2.5" SATA HDD, not SSD:
https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/DS119j#specs
Other products like even the DS218J lists support for both 2.5/3.5" SATA HDD and 2.5" SSD:
https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/DS218j#specs
I asked him why DS119J doesn't support SSD and he wasn't sure. :scratch:
I'm not sure if this is a case of it won't work plain and simple or if its not recommended in certain configurations? :scratch:
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My guess is they haven't gotten around to qualifying them yet.
Still, it seems to me that the simplest solution to the noise would be to put it in another room.