Question about a vinyl setup

floresjc · « **on:** 21 Nov 2021, 05:13 am »

I have all kinds of audio gear from Frank and also Jim Salk. Most of it, my wife asked me why I'd bother to spend so much money on audio over the years.

And then today, she says she wants me to get a vinyl setup on one of my stereos, so she can have fun collecting and playing old records (and new records). I'm thinking sure, why not, I've always pondered having the vinyl experience.

So I'll probably pick up a Pro-ject turntable, but I need to get my pre-amp situation sorted. I have a few options but I'm wondering which route I should go. I have an existing Ultra EC preamp, Insight DAC, and Fet Valve 550 amp hooked up to original Salk Song Towers. This system does double duty, for playing movies and also music while my wife works downstairs.

Options:

1. Send in the Ultra EC preamp for a phono upgrade.
2. Buy a Vision phono preamp standalone unit.
3. Sell the preamp and the amp, and buy a SET 120 control amp and Vision phono preamp.
4. Sell the preamp, buy a new Vision RB preamp with phono.

Option 2 is probably the easiest/cheapest since I basically save shipping a full size preamp to Frank and back. Option 3 intrigues me alot since I already have a SET 120 control amp and love it, and was already thinking of "mini-sizing" this stereo system even before the vinyl conversation became a thing. But I would still have 3 physical boxes (control amp, phono amp, dac). Option 4 is appealing, everything preamp is contained in one unit and its the newest circuits for my preamp.

Any comments on what would be the "best" sound? These are all quality components so each configuration would sound good, but I'm not sure if there's a big difference going from the ~$500 price level to add phono to what I have, to the ~$1500 to upgrade to phono and newer circuits. Any and all comments welcome.

toocool4 · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 11:42 am »

Personally I would say buy a separate phonostge, gives you flexibility.

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 12:37 pm »

The Vision board installed in your existing preamp is $329. The stand alone Vision is $500. The EC has all kinds of options to it and is in the same size cabinet as the 120. If you haven't check shipping costs lately, you're in for a surprise, so shipping something small or not quite so small makes not much difference.

'ner

Audiosaurusrex · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 12:38 pm »

Best sound = separate phono stage and good TT/Cart IMO and now that vinyl is making a resurgence some very good choices out there. I had the option with my Octave V70 Class A to do an onboard Phonostage but opted to go separate and I’m glad I did for flexibility. I’ve been upgrading carts (presently Umami Red) and will get my Modwright P9.0x soon. Great that your other half enjoys your hobby as mine does as well.
Happy Listening

floresjc · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 01:20 pm »

Looks like the separate phone stage is a winner.

Tone Depth · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 03:49 pm »

Did you notice that three of your four options including purchasing the separate phono preamp? I agree, separate in your case makes the most sense.

SJ David · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 05:29 pm »

Are you sure best sound is first priority? Sounds like this is experience is not just for you. Vinyl is a whole lot of fuss to some who are used to remotes and smart phone apps. Many folks may never get to the point of sound appreciation given the hands-on mandate of vinyl. My approach would be an all-in-one solution like the Denon DP400. This unit also includes an auto-lift at the end of play. Again, all about easing the transition to a new medium with some relief from the added involvement required with vinyl.

Wayner · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 07:55 pm »

The phono board that goes into the EC is the exact same as the one in the stand alone. I have 3 of them. They are by far the best phono preamp I have ever heard. It will also increase the value of your EC preamp (I have 2 of them).

Tone Depth · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Nov 2021, 09:23 pm »

I inquired with Frank about upgrading my Insight+ EC preamp with the Vision Phono preamp and he said they were no longer doing upgrades. I don't know if that is preamp model specific or not.

dlparker · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Nov 2021, 04:14 pm »

That Denon rig looks pretty slick. Can't afford it right now, but I think it would make a great system combined with my current set of speakers and AVA control amp (used Insight) in place of Frank's stand-alone phono pre. Then the stand-alone phono pre, my old Denon turntable (DP-30L II - about 40 years old), the Vision RB pre, the Vision SET 120 power amp and another pair of speakers and I've got two separate systems that should last me (an old geezer/po' hillbilly from Missouri) a lifetime (or two) - with no WAF to muddy the waters!

(WOOPS! edited to direct the "Go for it".. to the right person.)

Go for it, floresjc!

dB Cooper · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Nov 2021, 04:42 pm »

If you haven't pulled the trigger yet, you might want to consider the Orbit TT also. https://uturnaudio.com/pages/turntables
They offer a selection of cartridges as a bundle (scroll to 'custom')

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Nov 2021, 05:24 pm »

Keep it simple, get the phono board installed. Less cables and fuss. It should sound about the same as the stand alone preamp. You are not building a $5K phono system. Use the money saved for a better cartridge and good phono cables.

One thing to consider if this is for your wife is to get a semiautomatic TT. I have a vintage 1970's Thorens TD-145 that has auto lift and shut off. I would never buy a TT without it as I sometimes leave the room while the TT is playing.

You can look at used vintage TT's or get a Fluvance RT85 that comes with an Ortofon Blue. It has pretty good reviews for a budget TT at $500.

There are a few others from Denon, Technic's, Music Hall and Thorens ranging from $500 to $1500.

floresjc · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Nov 2021, 06:03 pm »

Well apparently old age has caught up with me. Younger me apparently ordered my Insight preamp with phono installed and I forgot all about it. So I'm going to switch my Ultra EC into my main rig and use the insight for the vinyl until I figure out what general upgrades I want to do. I'm going to check out some of these other turn table suggestions. Thanks guys.

dlparker · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Nov 2021, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: floresjc on 22 Nov 2021, 06:03 pm

Well apparently old age has caught up with me. Younger me apparently ordered my Insight preamp with phono installed and I forgot all about it. So I'm going to switch my Ultra EC into my main rig and use the insight for the vinyl until I figure out what general upgrades I want to do. I'm going to check out some of these other turn table suggestions. Thanks guys.

Speaking of old age, why do I aways read "Fluance" or "Fluvance" as "Flatulence"?

timind · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Nov 2021, 12:54 am »

When it's time to purchase the turntable, take a look at well maintained/refurbed vintage pieces. I have a JVC JL-A20 belt drive with auto-return which I would bet is better than any new $500 turntable sold today.

ArthurDent · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Nov 2021, 01:25 am »

Quote from: floresjc on 22 Nov 2021, 06:03 pm

Well apparently old age has caught up with me. Younger me apparently ordered my Insight preamp with phono installed and I forgot all about it. So I'm going to switch my Ultra EC into my main rig and use the insight for the vinyl until I figure out what general upgrades I want to do. I'm going to check out some of these other turn table suggestions. Thanks guys.

Cool, now start hitting the record shops with all the $ you saved.

And for what it's worth I wouldn't part with the EC, it's a classic that holds it's own today. Roll some tubes if you want to play with it.

avahifi · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Nov 2021, 03:46 pm »

Actually our Vision Q free standing adjustable phono preamp is significantly better then those built into our older preamplifiers.

Not only can it be set to work great with any MM or low output MC phono cartridge, it is really, really, quiet quiet.

$499 and plugs into the line level inputs of any preamplifier.

Although it is listed as a $329 option built into a new AVA preamplifier, that price applies only if it is installed in the process of building that preamp in the first place.

It is not an economical retrofit as then it is a very labor intensive process. The main audio mother board must be removed to install the Vision Q after the fact and the necessary wiring is not there to install it in our older units.

Frank

dlparker · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Nov 2021, 06:18 pm »

I have the current phono preamp and I love it. Records that I have had for years sound much better than I remember them ever sounding. The old Mobile Fidelity records in particular sound fantastic in every detail, even to my 'antique' ears. I'm very impressed with mine!

Quote from: avahifi on 23 Nov 2021, 03:46 pm

Actually our Vision Q free standing adjustable phono preamp is significantly better then those built into our older preamplifiers.

Not only can it be set to work great with any MM or low output MC phono cartridge, it is really, really, quiet quiet.

$499 and plugs into the line level inputs of any preamplifier.

Although it is listed as a $329 option built into a new AVA preamplifier, that price applies only if it is installed in the process of building that preamp in the first place.

It is not an economical retrofit as then it is a very labor intensive process. The main audio mother board must be removed to install the Vision Q after the fact and the necessary wiring is not there to install it in our older units.

Frank

rcag_ils · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Dec 2021, 11:40 pm »

If my preamp already has a phono input, where would the phono amp plug into?

WGH · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 Dec 2021, 12:28 am »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 30 Dec 2021, 11:40 pm

If my preamp already has a phone input, where would the phone amp plug into?

Any line level input that is not labeled phono.