AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Vinyl Circle => Topic started by: SET Man on 13 Aug 2022, 06:53 pm
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Hey!
I've thought about this for sometime now. For decades not much research have gone into making better material to press record on. So, this is very interesting. And if this new "Green Vinyl" quality is the same or better than what we have now and still cost the same or just a bit more then I'm up for it.
https://youtu.be/KlAG8EOs8MQ (https://youtu.be/KlAG8EOs8MQ)
Buddy
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Good video Buddy. Thanks for posting and I’d like to hear one of those pressings.
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It would be good to make our records greener, LP’s are already green in my book. What do I mean by that, put it this way some of my records have been with me since I was a teenager that’s around 30 years. Also some of my records are older than I am. These are not plastic that we use and throw away after one use. These plastics are not some knife / forks / cups that we use once and dump, how often does anyone use plastic knife / forks / cups for more than 30 years?
So I maintain LP’s are already fairly green.
By the way the LP in the video was not perfectly quiet like claimed, I can clearly hear the surface noise.
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If the source is still fossil fuels(oil, coal..) then NOPE (scary movie)...isn't all plastic, pfc, pvc etc. a composition of hydrocarbons (oil,coal gas)?
Micro plastic molecules are everywhere now, in our food supply, our organs. The Plastic Earth.
"Nobody throws away their vinyl records" said one of the commentators, I used to pick up many 'records' on the City streets. That presenter claims to be a record collector...I only saw a dozen records on her shelf. :lol:
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Carbon in record vinyl stays locked up for decades and has essentially no impact on the environment. The bags that every single item I buy comes in goes straight to the landfill. Nearly every molecule of carbon based fuel I burn goes into the atmosphere as CO2, or worse, CO.
Records aren't a problem.
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Carbon in record vinyl stays locked up for decades and has essentially no impact on the environment. The bags that every single item I buy comes in goes straight to the landfill. Nearly every molecule of carbon based fuel I burn goes into the atmosphere as CO2, or worse, CO.
Records aren't a problem.
The problem isn't plastic shopping bags, or gasoline cars: it's people. I re-use those plastic bags as trash bags for small cans (bathrooms) or some other use. Plus, places like Walmart usually take old plastic bags for recycling. Because, you still would have to buy normal trash bags for your bathroom (and still trow away plastic bags. So, let's try that versus just throwing them away if you really care about the environment.
I reject being forced to use cloth bags or pay plastic bags by any county. state, or federal entity. They will never be worth 5 cents. If people really cared about saving the environment, companies like Walmart would give away cloth bags like candy. It would be great PR and advertisement, especially if you were the first and corner the market. Imagine shopping at Whole Foods with your Walmart bags. That's how you rub it in.
When it comes to cars, it's not gasoline: it's the decision to have to go somewhere when you don't really need to. Besides a few select trips, I don't go anywhere. People will go anywhere and everywhere every weekend when it is not needed.
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I wonder how much carbon is released from just one volcano eruption or a forest fire in California?
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I wonder how much carbon is released from just one volcano eruption or a forest fire in California?
Hey!
I'm sure you can differentiate between man made and natural occurrences right?
Buddy
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Hey!
The new vinyl is more than just the material to press the vinyl on. It is also the process of making it that I find interesting, using injection molding process.
Anyway, I think I'm now regretting posting this :roll:
Buddy
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I wonder how much carbon is released from just one volcano eruption or a forest fire in California?
Annual volcanic emissions over the last several decades were "within a range of about 0.3 ± 0.15 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year, implying that human carbon dioxide emissions were more than 90 times greater than global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions."
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/which-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
A large forest fire can emit 150 million metric tons of CO2, but some is removed from the atmosphere over time (decades) as the forest regrows. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/sept-15-2018-summer-science-camping-under-a-volcano-plastic-in-beluga-bellies-and-more-1.4821942/how-do-co2-emissions-from-forest-fires-compare-to-those-from-fossil-fuels-1.4821944
Global warming drives an increase in the number, duration, and area of forest fires, and creates conditions that inhibit their full regrowth (leaving a portion of released CO2 in the atmosphere), so they form part of a positive feedback cycle that increases global warming. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/climate-feedback-climate-change-forest-fires/
The BBC puff piece on replacing polyvinyl chloride (PVC) with polyethylene chloride (PEC) in record production is the kind of irresponsible nonsense reporting that wastes people's time and waste's the potential of journalism to inform evidence-based policy decisions.
PVC production has vanishingly little to do with climate change, and manufacturing LPs has essentially zero impact on the demand for PVC. So, "green" LPs are just a marketing gimmick and, as the record manufacturer interviewed states, he would have to replace all of his equipment to switch to the meaningless gimmick. The environmental impact of junking his entire manufacturing facility is almost certainly much larger than whatever benefit there is from switching to PEC.
What these brainless "news" stories always fail to ask is "compared to what?" Here's what PVC use in LPs compares to—it's lost somewhere in the "Others" category:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243743)
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Excellent post, NewZoo.
Well, my 3K record collection sit on my shelves, without a molecule of hydrocarbon adding to any pollution issues. The vast majority will sit on someone else's shelves when I'm gone, and again, not contributing to any environmental issues.
Records are environmentally safe- as a general rule.
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Hey!
I'm sure you can differentiate between man made and natural occurrences right?
Buddy
I can't think of anything that wastes more energy and serves no purpose other than entertaining a biological entity, that would be listening to a stereo. Of course, there is plenty of AC made from carbon producing energy products. Perhaps a windup turntable and a crystal radio would suffice.
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I can't think of anything that wastes more energy and serves no purpose other than entertaining a biological entity, that would be listening to a stereo. Of course, there is plenty of AC made from carbon producing energy products. Perhaps a windup turntable and a crystal radio would suffice.
C'mon. Seriously?
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In other news, I read a piece about appreciating old gasoline vehicles. Guy in Europe walking through his neighborhood seeing a Citroen DS21, Jag XJS, etc.
Then stating the environmental impact of making a new vehicle, whether or not it is electric, makes keeping the old one going perhaps not such a bad thing.
I'm toying with a new Golf R but my 2012 R runs so well, I think I'll keep it.
Somehow I think I haven't fully hijacked this thread...
Paul
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Newzoo's post is not only informative, but illustrates the power of knowledge in the nation centric debate over anthropogenic climate change. Apparently it's only in the US that there's a debate about global warming being a clear and present danger to life on earth. China and India are big emitters, but aren't publicly debating anything, they just don't care. Thanks for the great post.
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If the source is still fossil fuels(oil, coal..) then NOPE (scary movie)...isn't all plastic, pfc, pvc etc. a composition of hydrocarbons (oil,coal gas)?
Micro plastic molecules are everywhere now, in our food supply, our organs. The Plastic Earth.
"Nobody throws away their vinyl records" said one of the commentators, I used to pick up many 'records' on the City streets. That presenter claims to be a record collector...I only saw a dozen records on her shelf. :lol:
I saw that serious vinyl collector as well. This is just more of the same humans are bad and we must make everything terrible for you. My collection has been destroying the planet since the 60's now! <sarc>
What a load. Analogue Productions is already using lead free vinyl. What else do they want?
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Annual volcanic emissions over the last several decades were "within a range of about 0.3 ± 0.15 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year, implying that human carbon dioxide emissions were more than 90 times greater than global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions."
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/which-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-volcanoes-or-human-activities
A large forest fire can emit 150 million metric tons of CO2, but some is removed from the atmosphere over time (decades) as the forest regrows. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/sept-15-2018-summer-science-camping-under-a-volcano-plastic-in-beluga-bellies-and-more-1.4821942/how-do-co2-emissions-from-forest-fires-compare-to-those-from-fossil-fuels-1.4821944
Global warming drives an increase in the number, duration, and area of forest fires, and creates conditions that inhibit their full regrowth (leaving a portion of released CO2 in the atmosphere), so they form part of a positive feedback cycle that increases global warming. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/climate-feedback-climate-change-forest-fires/
The BBC puff piece on replacing polyvinyl chloride (PVC) with polyethylene chloride (PEC) in record production is the kind of irresponsible nonsense reporting that wastes people's time and waste's the potential of journalism to inform evidence-based policy decisions.
PVC production has vanishingly little to do with climate change, and manufacturing LPs has essentially zero impact on the demand for PVC. So, "green" LPs are just a marketing gimmick and, as the record manufacturer interviewed states, he would have to replace all of his equipment to switch to the meaningless gimmick. The environmental impact of junking his entire manufacturing facility is almost certainly much larger than whatever benefit there is from switching to PEC.
What these brainless "news" stories always fail to ask is "compared to what?" Here's what PVC use in LPs compares to—it's lost somewhere in the "Others" category:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243743)
Excellent post.
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On Brian Eno's latest album the hype sticker mentions it is made out of recycled vinyl
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Our Lps now. Enough is enough. Plant more Hemp and clean the sucker up.
charles
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I think I would worry more about stuff that impacts everyone everyday than how freaking LP's are being made.
"Non-exhaust emissions, which include tire, brake and road surface wear, account for 90% of all particulate emissions from vehicles. The microplastics from tire dust contribute to dangerous PM2.5 pollution – particles that are so small they can be inhaled and cause respiratory health issues."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/16/world/tyre-collective-microplastic-rubber-waste-climate-hnk-spc-intl/index.html#:~:text=Non%2Dexhaust%20emissions%2C%20which%20include,and%20cause%20respiratory%20health%20issues.
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Environmentally friendly, Green, Sustainable, and similar slogans of the day facilitate disconnection with common sense and individual critical thinking. CNN, BBC, etc. craft attention grabbing headlines as absolute truths without ever providing a complete picture. How many times have frightening headlines told us something is harmful. Weeks, months or years later we learn the predicted outcome is based on ingesting 5, 10, 20, or 100 times the amount of substance X reasonably plausible in a lifetime. This is not to say no substance is harmful. There are real dangers to identify and mitigate. Chicken Little shouting everything will kill you is neither true or helpful.
Perfect example is the hyper focus on CO2. Debate about volcano or human production of CO2 is a smokescreen to hide facts of science. CO2 is not a greenhouse gas, regardless of what the ACTOR Bill Nye claims. Simple experiments appearing on You Tube that "prove" CO2 traps heat are not in the least scientific or true. Science tells us that CO2 in the atmosphere for hundreds of thousands of years was many times higher than current levels. In addition, there have been long cycles of increased and decreased concentrations with a long term declining trend. If CO2 was actually a greenhouse gas, humans would not be here. Current CO2 concentration is about 450 ppm. The Earth has experienced levels over 6000 ppm. Plant life ends at 150 ppm, which means human life ends. How close do you want to approach 150 ppm? Human produced CO2 that has produced a tiny ppm increase is not a crisis.
The Green all electric no CO2 future is a fantasy. Simple logical and fact based scrutiny clearly shows the raw material necessary cannot be produced. A 10% increase in worldwide production requires massive infrastructure expansion requiring financial resources that do not exist. To achieve the dream of a Green future, production would have to increase 700% to 1000%. Simply not possible. Even if an alternate reality existed, going Green in the way currently imagined would consume material and financial resources that do not exist and attempt to solve a contrived and false crisis.
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Millenials would push the button to exterminate their own grandparents if someone told them it would make the world more "sustainable".
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Well, with the recent tragedy in E Palestine, Oh. I suspect PVC isn't getting much love these days :cry:
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"Polyvinyl chloride (alternatively: poly(vinyl chloride), colloquial: polyvinyl, or simply vinyl; abbreviated: PVC) is the world's third-most widely produced synthetic polymer of plastic (after polyethylene and polypropylene). About 40 million tons of PVC are produced each year."
Hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure that train was headed to one of the major east coast LP producers, and if we banned LPs the people of East Palestine would have been spared their suffering.
It's better to ban LPs than to look into the issues that might have contributed to the disaster. Let me know where we can go to protest the production of vinyl LPs and make sure this never happens again.
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The prob is not music LPs but suspicious disasters like these last 3 in Ohio, more than 500K litres or gallons of carcinogenic chemical products dumped in that city.
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"Polyvinyl chloride (alternatively: poly(vinyl chloride), colloquial: polyvinyl, or simply vinyl; abbreviated: PVC) is the world's third-most widely produced synthetic polymer of plastic (after polyethylene and polypropylene). About 40 million tons of PVC are produced each year."
Hmmm. Yeah, I'm sure that train was headed to one of the major east coast LP producers, and if we banned LPs the people of East Palestine would have been spared their suffering.
It's better to ban LPs than to look into the issues that might have contributed to the disaster. Let me know where we can go to protest the production of vinyl LPs and make sure this never happens again.
I'm taking a stand by burning all of my LPs.
The CDC decided to revise the toxicity level allowed for vinyl chloride from 100ppm to 100,000ppm 11 days before the disaster.
Go figure.
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I'm not sure if talk about anthropogenic climate change is science or politics, I'll try to stay in the scientific arena. There is absolutely no doubt that climate change is a clear and present danger to life on earth. The latest IPCC report concludes that all previous models underestimated feedback loops and global warming is occuring at a much faster rate than models had predicted. The IPCC reports are compiled by over 160 interdisciplinary scientists from over 140 different countries, precluding any concerns of bias. We've all heard that figure of 97% of scientists confirming all of this as fact, which is incorrect. Now virtually 100% of climatologists publishing in the field agree anthropogenic climate change is real and is an immediate danger to life, there is no longer any doubt on the subject save unqualified people with agendas.
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So much going on in this world regarding pollution and someone is worried about how LP's are made. If ya fix the really big causes the rest will take care of itself.
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I don't care. China is polluting enough for everyone so environmentally non-polluting records will not make any difference. And, someone let the BBC "journalist" who wrote that article know that my pronouns are "f---" and "you".
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I'm not sure if talk about anthropogenic climate change is science or politics, I'll try to stay in the scientific arena. There is absolutely no doubt that climate change is a clear and present danger to life on earth. The latest IPCC report concludes that all previous models underestimated feedback loops and global warming is occuring at a much faster rate than models had predicted. The IPCC reports are compiled by over 160 interdisciplinary scientists from over 140 different countries, precluding any concerns of bias. We've all heard that figure of 97% of scientists confirming all of this as fact, which is incorrect. Now virtually 100% of climatologists publishing in the field agree anthropogenic climate change is real and is an immediate danger to life, there is no longer any doubt on the subject save unqualified people with agendas.
Or other scientists who disagree and are shunned. Follow the grant money. Follow the green money. My opinion.
charles
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Over 95% of scientists agree......
....with whoever is paying their grants.
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BTW, I like global warming. Cold kills more people than warming anyways. Also, I want to be able to play tennis outdoors here during winter. At present there are certain days when it is possible but I want more days to do so.
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Vinyl records are incredibly environmentally friendly. They take carbon from the ecosystem, press it into a durable product, and then they get passed down from generation to generation. Not many well treated records go into the scrap pile.
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It’s called Climate Change…. No Shit
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If famous scientists do not support the Official Science version they will lose their positions and funds quickly, even knowing that Ozone (O³) is a volatile gas, since it is composed of 3 oxygen molecules.
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Or other scientists who disagree and are shunned. Follow the grant money. Follow the green money. My opinion.
charles
Over 95% of scientists agree......
....with whoever is paying their grants.
This argument is patently ridiculous. Certainly the fossil fuel industry has at least as much money to spend as the renewable energy sector, and likely billions more. So if climatologists are all bought off with grant money, just as many or more should be publishing pro fossil fuel industry tropes. But they aren't, and they aren't "bought off"with grant money looking for predetermined results. The false narrative that all the world's scientists are on the take for grant money is magical, childlike thinking, it's conspiracy theory stuff.
Here's the proof: https://www.ipcc.ch/ar6-syr/
If you disagree please post the studies backing up your claims.
I'll note that there is a major political component to all of this that I'm staying entirely away from and I encourage all members to do the same.
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This argument is patently ridiculous. Certainly the fossil fuel industry has at least as much money to spend as the renewable energy sector, and likely billions more. So if climatologists are all bought off with grant money, just as many or more should be publishing pro fossil fuel industry tropes. But they aren't, and they aren't "bought off"with grant money looking for predetermined results. The false narrative that all the world's scientists are on the take for grant money is magical, childlike thinking, it's conspiracy theory stuff.
Here's the proof: https://www.ipcc.ch/ar6-syr/
If you disagree please post the studies backing up your claims.
I'll note that there is a major political component to all of this that I'm staying entirely away from and I encourage all members to do the same.
Spot on, Letitroll. And to make this point more emphatically, they should post peer reviewed studies. There is no shortage of intentionally misleading information that can be quoted, but nothing that can stand up to peer review.
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Two sides to every story. Since the 1970's on the World was ending or we would be under water in NYC. Gee Never happened. So here we go again. I have no skin in the game or have to prove a thing. Follow the money. Green money that is. Scientists who disagree get no grant money. They changed the model to suit their narrative. So many questions. Science is MEANT to be questioned. Again my view point
charles
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Spot on, Letitroll. And to make this point more emphatically, they should post peer reviewed studies. There is no shortage of intentionally misleading information that can be quoted, but nothing that can stand up to peer review.
Why cannot it be questioned ? Is that what Science is all about ? I do not have to prove shit. It is my take on the matter.
your buddy charles
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Follow the money.
" Follow the money"the one thing that trumps "science". Gore made $24 million on his first movie, now he's back selling more fear.
Do you know how many coal burning plants one eastern country has built since that movie?
facts out weight "science" in this world of greed.
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" Follow the money"the one thing that trumps "science". Gore made $24 million on his first movie, now he's back selling more fear.
Do you know how many coal burning plants one eastern country has built since that movie?
facts out weight "science" in this world of greed.
Lets not forget Kerry. For millions of years the Earth has had cooling and heating cycles. That is what I learned in School.
Back to vinyl. Not a concern IMHO.
charles
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+1. Dobson said yet more.
He study atmopheric ozone 40 years.
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Why cannot it be questioned ? Is that what Science is all about ? I do not have to prove shit. It is my take on the matter.
your buddy charles
Let start by clarifying a point. You are not my buddy- we know from our PM interactions that we really don't like each other. You have next to no concept how science works. You certainly don't have to prove shit, but that's not what you are here to do. Legitimate scientist in the fieldwill disagree on details, but when you begin to get a 95+ % consensus, amateurs saying " but what about this" is just noise.
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... double post.
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+1. Dobson said yet more.
He study atmopheric ozone 40 years.
Ozone is a very different problem than warming. These are two different things.
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Let’s not allow this topic devolve into politics.
Global warming, climate change, Kerry, Gore. NO
Please reread the topic subject before posting. Thank you.
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No problem. Vinyl takes carbon out of the carbon cycle and keeps it out of the atmosphere for a while. That's a good thing.
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No problem. Vinyl takes carbon out of the carbon cycle and keeps it out of the atmosphere for a while. That's a good thing.
The carbon in vinyl was already sequestered from the atmosphere 252 to 66 million years ago in the Mesozoic when 70% of oil-forming dead things accumulated.
"Polyvinyl Chloride or Vinyl compound is chiefly made from two basic substances – Salt and Crude Oil." https://www.whatisvinyl.com/
However, we would need oil to power modern civilization regardless of its use in vinyl production, and ~99% of vinyl is used for things other than making LPs.
So the expense of shifting to something else for making LPs would not have any newsworthy environmental benefit.
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Let start by clarifying a point. You are not my buddy- we know from our PM interactions that we really don't like each other. You have next to no concept how science works. You certainly don't have to prove shit, but that's not what you are here to do. Legitimate scientist in the fieldwill disagree on details, but when you begin to get a 95+ % consensus, amateurs saying " but what about this" is just noise.
I have an opinion which I believe is allowed in a free world. I am here for no reason other than voicing my opinion. I am not alone. Canceling me or putting me down only proves my point about you. There are other opinions than yours. Live with it.
charles
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You absolutely have the right to be wrong in a field where you have no expertise.
Oh well, I spin vinyl and am likely to continue. I doubt if it hurts the environment
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The ultimate authority has spoken :lol: :duh:Done here.
charles
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From now on I will plant a Hemp plant for every LP I buy.
charles