[RDavidson]

There's no market for what you're asking for. Sounds like a DIY project to me.

......and you are a market analyst?

Again, look at Peachtree. What I'm wanting isn't far off of what already exists successfully in the market, and has for several years.

[RDavidson]

Actually it is the point, but I'm obviously not making it clear to you. 2.1 is by definition mono bass, unlike 2.0 or 2.2 (in some cases). Except in rare cases (XO <40hz) that conflicts with "sound quality"...for a few, including myself.
If you rely on Dolby/DTS for bass management, that's what you get...mono bass.
What (2ch) "processing"? Bass management?
How many HDMI outputs do you have, from what, to feed this desired 2ch pre?

cheers,

AJ

Yes, remember we're in the HT Circle. Yes, bass management is pretty standard in HT.

I think people are getting confused because I want a 2 channel focused system, but with all the integration found only in HT gear. I guess confusion is bound to happen when trying to talk about an idea, not something that actually exists.

[asliarun]

I think your best bet is to get a pre-processor, set it to 2.1 channel output and then connect it to your amplifier and powered subwoofer of choice.

That way you are only paying for 2 channels of high quality amplification so no "wasted" parts here.

On the processor you are paying for a bit more. Independent of volume discounts, I estimate that the saving for 2 channels vs. 7 channels would be 10% - 15%. Smaller case, fewer connectors and fewer surface mount components related to fewer channels but you still need the same processing chips, control circuitry and buttons.

When you throw in volume differences it's like Gzerro says.

My setup is more on the budget end, but that is exactly what I did. I wanted to use Roku as an audio source - especially since it has over 100+ audio apps.. Pandora, etc. and even has an app for my local favorite radio channel - WXRT. I ended up buying Marantz NR1403 slimline (edit: thanks to the awesome advice I received in the C&C circle!) and am using it as a preamp. My power amp (really an integrated) is Dayens Ecstasy. My room setup is suboptimal because of lack of space and an active toddler, but this setup sounds quite decent to me. I do miss my Audio GD DAC though, and had also tried to setup the DAC over a 4 way HDMI switch, but it is so much more clunkier to use compared to a decent AVR. So my bizarre setup consists of a full blown AVR with a power section that is being used as a preamp AVR, paired with an integrated amp that is being used as a power amp!

I really wish that AVRs would come with decent DACs - which I guess is another way of saying that I wish someone would make a stereo preamp that accepts HDMI inputs (and do video). Honestly, I fail to see how HDMI can be a poor option compared to optical and coax. This is all digital and HDMI has more than sufficient bandwidth. But just my thoughts, and I haven't tried to prove/disprove this via listening.

On a side note, I also wish that DACs or stereo preamps would have better support for room equalization and DSP. Even entry level AVRs that are very very reasonably priced come with Audussey etc.

[Early B.]

......and you are a market analyst?

Again, look at Peachtree. What I'm wanting isn't far off of what already exists successfully in the market, and has for several years.

Then go buy a Peachtree. You can't always get exactly what you want.     

[johsti]

Thanks for the suggestion, but this really is about the furthest thing from what I'm looking for / wishing for. This just adds another box that doesn't do anything but provide HDMI switching. What I want is less boxes ; 1 box as a matter of fact.........like an HT receiver, but 2 channel focused. If you know of anything along those lines, please let me know. So far, the NAD products  mentioned earlier are the closest thing I've seen.

I think this is a great suggestion.  I'm currently using the same device from Monoprice in my 2.2 channel setup.  This is not just an HDMI switcher since it can also take the encrypted HDMI audio signal and output it through SPDIF into the dac of your choice.  This works perfect for SACD or BluRay concerts or movies with 24/48 or 24/96 audio.  Just downmix audio to stereo in your player's settings and you are good to go.  Yes, it is one more box, but it is a very small device with a remote that can be programmed to work with a universal remote.

If you are looking for a 2 channel receiver that will handle LFE, then you may as well stick with a standard 5/7 channel AVR.

The Oppo 105 is another good suggestion.

Good luck. 

[jarcher]

You know it occurs to me that you could just use the 2 channel analog outputs of the various video devices (cable boxes, Blu ray players, etc) and connect those to the usual 2 channel inputs of a standard preamp or integrated amp. The video device will do the down conversion from multi channel to two channel. If you have a device like an Apple TV or roku that's hdmi only and apps / channels that you can't otherwise get through the Blu ray player with its analog outputs, then run it through your tv and let that do the 2 channel down conversion. Is hdmi to TV, RCA outs to pre or integrated.

This way no extra boxes - just your sources you had it get / buy anyway - and you put your money towards what you want : good quality 2 channel preamp and amplification. Still makes a good argument for a good Blu ray player like an oppo 105 that has very good dacs / analog output stage.

[xr2]

I don't have any suggestions, but I share your desire.  I considered trying to put surround sound in my living room with a new receiver, but I've been living with at most 3.1 for the past 5 years and couldn't get myself to spend the money on a quality receiver and new speakers at this point.  My current plan is to use my TV to accept HDMI and output Toslink into a dac, then to amp and speakers.  I'm using an integrated amp with a sub out, but no way to filter out the lows to the speakers without adding a pre-amp to the mix.  I also run into problems with having multiple toslink sources I want to use separate from the TV, so I have to add a switch box. 

I found the Outlaw RR2150 which could help with base management, but you would need another box to handle the processing duties.

[RDavidson]

Then go buy a Peachtree. You can't always get exactly what you want.   

Seriously? Why the attitude that is so commonplace with your posts? If you can't handle others' trains of thought, perhaps you shouldn't post anything. You have yet to say anything useful here. You take a thread dump. Leave. Come back. Dump again.
You're stinking up the place.

[RDavidson]

You know it occurs to me that you could just use the 2 channel analog outputs of the various video devices (cable boxes, Blu ray players, etc) and connect those to the usual 2 channel inputs of a standard preamp or integrated amp. The video device will do the down conversion from multi channel to two channel. If you have a device like an Apple TV or roku that's hdmi only and apps / channels that you can't otherwise get through the Blu ray player with its analog outputs, then run it through your tv and let that do the 2 channel down conversion. Is hdmi to TV, RCA outs to pre or integrated.

This way no extra boxes - just your sources you had it get / buy anyway - and you put your money towards what you want : good quality 2 channel preamp and amplification. Still makes a good argument for a good Blu ray player like an oppo 105 that has very good dacs / analog output stage.

Maybe not the easiest workaround, but it makes sense. I'd probably need an HDMI switch box (like the Monoprice unit I was perhaps hasty to dismiss) to hook up to the Oppo's single HDMI input. Then HDMI video goes from the Oppo to the TV. Analog audio (with bass management and decoding) gets output from the Oppo to a nice integrated amp. Hmmmm..........
That's maybe the best overall solution so far.
Wait, just thought of something. The LFE won't have any place to go from the Oppo.
How could that work with consideration to volume control?......
If I had speakers with built-in subs, like Golden Ears or Def Techs, that'd be ideal as I'm pretty sure the subs work from the speaker level signal, but if one uses a separate sub or wants to add a sub, the it gets more complicated.

I appreciate the thinking here, guys.

[RDavidson]

My setup is more on the budget end, but that is exactly what I did. I wanted to use Roku as an audio source - especially since it has over 100+ audio apps.. Pandora, etc. and even has an app for my local favorite radio channel - WXRT. I ended up buying Marantz NR1403 slimline (edit: thanks to the awesome advice I received in the C&C circle!) and am using it as a preamp. My power amp (really an integrated) is Dayens Ecstasy. My room setup is suboptimal because of lack of space and an active toddler, but this setup sounds quite decent to me. I do miss my Audio GD DAC though, and had also tried to setup the DAC over a 4 way HDMI switch, but it is so much more clunkier to use compared to a decent AVR. So my bizarre setup consists of a full blown AVR with a power section that is being used as a preamp AVR, paired with an integrated amp that is being used as a power amp!

I really wish that AVRs would come with decent DACs - which I guess is another way of saying that I wish someone would make a stereo preamp that accepts HDMI inputs (and do video). Honestly, I fail to see how HDMI can be a poor option compared to optical and coax. This is all digital and HDMI has more than sufficient bandwidth. But just my thoughts, and I haven't tried to prove/disprove this via listening.

On a side note, I also wish that DACs or stereo preamps would have better support for room equalization and DSP. Even entry level AVRs that are very very reasonably priced come with Audussey etc.

I hear ha. We're on the same page. There's just not a simple / clean solution to what we want, only workarounds involving full surround sound HT gear being dumbed down and band-aided to our, somewhat specific, but perhaps not uncommon needs.

I appreciate the input though. It's good to see that there are at least a hand full out there, who'd also wish to have what I'm trying to suggest.

[RDavidson]

I don't have any suggestions, but I share your desire.  I considered trying to put surround sound in my living room with a new receiver, but I've been living with at most 3.1 for the past 5 years and couldn't get myself to spend the money on a quality receiver and new speakers at this point.  My current plan is to use my TV to accept HDMI and output Toslink into a dac, then to amp and speakers.  I'm using an integrated amp with a sub out, but no way to filter out the lows to the speakers without adding a pre-amp to the mix.  I also run into problems with having multiple toslink sources I want to use separate from the TV, so I have to add a switch box. 

I found the Outlaw RR2150 which could help with base management, but you would need another box to handle the processing duties.

I like surround sound. Don't get me wrong. But there's a lot to be said for just a very simple and high quality 2.1 or 3.1 setup. Look at all the sound bars out there. There's obviously a market for a simpler form of "HT." You and I just want a step up from that, without getting into ALL the surround stuff. There's no in between. You can get a sound bar, or HT in a box or an HT receiver and speakers, or full blown HT separates. There's a spot between a sound bar and HT receiver in the market, for this kind of product.

[notany]

Hi again,
  I'm not sure if the budget will allow but the NAD C390DD at $2,600 plus the optional HDMI module at $299 wi9ll give you 3 HDMI in and 1 out with bass management and room correction. http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier This is a 150 watt one box solution of high quality that seems to check all the boxes.  I admit I am something of a NAD fan but I don't know of anything else that does everything you want.  Or you could just buy the Peachtree.

[srb]

The NAD C390DD speaks of "2.0" in reference to HDMI which makes me believe that the analog subwoofer outputs don't apply to the HDMI inputs.  It also doesn't decode multi-channel HDMI and mix down to 2 channel, it only accepts a 2 channel HDMI input source.

Steve

[kingdeezie]

I would actually prefer to keep HDMI out of high quality two channel.

Since 2002, HDMI has had 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 2.0 iterations. Not to mention the sub-iterations like X.Xa, X.Xb, etc, etc.

While it has been good that the connections has been able to expand with the technology (4K, 3D), I wouldn't want to have my preamp, and/or DAC, shackled to a HDMI port that is likely to be completely invalidated within a couple of years.

I use a monoprice HDMI switcher, that can also decode Dolby/DTS, and pass it to my DAC via optical, as PCM. This makes switching out to the newest HDMI standard pretty inexpensive, and not at all inconvenient.

[notany]

hi Steve,
  Sub out, bass management and room EQ apply to all inputs.  I fail to see the difference between feeding the HDMI 2ch LPCM from the source or having it mixed down by the NAD.  Am I missing something?  As far as the changeable nature of HDMI or any thing else the best solution would be a modular system that can evolve with the changes that will come.  Not just software upgrades but hardware as well.  There are over a dozen professional reviews and countless consumer reviews on this unit so the real question is "will the budget allow?".  If not then it's moot, if it does then there is plenty of info out there to help decide.  Of course you can just go to a dealer and take one home for an audition.  If it's affordable then it should be easy enough to find out if it is acceptable.

[RDavidson]

Hi again,
  I'm not sure if the budget will allow but the NAD C390DD at $2,600 plus the optional HDMI module at $299 wi9ll give you 3 HDMI in and 1 out with bass management and room correction. http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier This is a 150 watt one box solution of high quality that seems to check all the boxes.  I admit I am something of a NAD fan but I don't know of anything else that does everything you want.  Or you could just buy the Peachtree.

Well, budget isn't really a consideration for something that doesn't even exist.
I only mention Peachtree as they have nice, high quality, 2 channel integrateds with DACs. Doesn't seem like it'd be much of a stretch to implement HDMI and decoding / bass mgmt into a unit that already has the major portions of necessary hardware already in it.

[RDavidson]

hi Steve,
  Sub out, bass management and room EQ apply to all inputs.  I fail to see the difference between feeding the HDMI 2ch LPCM from the source or having it mixed down by the NAD.  Am I missing something?  As far as the changeable nature of HDMI or any thing else the best solution would be a modular system that can evolve with the changes that will come.  Not just software upgrades but hardware as well.  There are over a dozen professional reviews and countless consumer reviews on this unit so the real question is "will the budget allow?".  If not then it's moot, if it does then there is plenty of info out there to help decide.  Of course you can just go to a dealer and take one home for an audition.  If it's affordable then it should be easy enough to find out if it is acceptable.

Maybe I need to look more closely at the NAD. In conjunction with an Oppo, I'm curious how the LFE channel would be handled by the NAD. Something tells me that it won't, because the NAD is a 2.0 unit at its core, despite HDMI implementation.

[notany]

Hi RD,
  I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, the C390DD is a modular system that is hardware upgradeable.  This is not just potential there are several modules available and no reason to assume that they wont continue.  There is no shortage of integrateds with dacs but no other that I know of with HDMI, bass management, room correction and a modular design that allows for future compatibility. 

[RDavidson]

Hi RD,
  I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, the C390DD is a modular system that is hardware upgradeable.  This is not just potential there are several modules available and no reason to assume that they wont continue.  There is no shortage of integrateds with dacs but no other that I know of with HDMI, bass management, room correction and a modular design that allows for future compatibility.

No need to apologize. Great info. It sounds like the NAD may be the only of its kind. I'll take a look. It's pricey, but I'm still curious.

[notany]

Glad to help, if you have a NAD dealer in your area you should be able to take one home, before you buy it, and see if it's right for you.