AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Hobbsmeerkat on 23 Aug 2020, 10:45 pm
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I don't yet have the actual driver kit, but since I have the flatpack, I might as well get started with the assembly now that I have some proper tools and my raw-wood veneer/stain etc.
Here are my pics from the flatpack thread:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213421&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213425& size=large)
Neo3 test fitment:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213422)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213423)
Raw quilted-maple veneer: (2 matching sheets)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213626&size=large)
I only have enough clamps for one speaker at a time, so following Peter's video, its time to start assembly with the slope:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213627&size=large)
I should be able to get everything for this speaker all glued and clamped up tonight! So expect some more pics as I go along!
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That quilted maple is going to look gorgeous.
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That quilted maple is going to look gorgeous.
I certainly hope so! Still not 100% sure how i want to do it, but the first thing i need to do is flatten it. Its a really wavy veneer. Ill probably run up to the store and get a couple 2'x4' sheets of plywood and some shop towels to then clamp down with the wood plasticizer i got along with the veneer. :thumb:
I already have a small test strip being flattened out on the porch that I'll then use to dye it a deep "mahogany red" and figure out what allows for the best application. Luckily it can also be added to laquer if staining doesn't achieve the desired results. Tho i will say, finding denatured alcohol was a total pain. But with the massive amounts of sanitizer being produced, im also not too surprised.
I was only able to get 6 clamps, and both HD & Lowe's were running really low on them, and most that remained were 6" or 36" or $30-40 a piece... lol :o
So I got 4x 24" clamps and 2 strap clamps instead and they seem to work really well thankfully!
Here's a rough dry fitting with the clamps!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213629&size=large)
The clamp on the bottom will get put on the front instead once i start clamping them down after glueing..
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Glue up done! The dry fit definitely made planning a little easier, by putting the strap clamps under the side panel first then adding all the other sides/braces/shelf using the straps first to keep it all in place, putting one clamp running front to back, then adding the other 24" clamps to the top/bottom, moving the one that was front-back last.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213631&size=large)
Now I just gotta let it dry!
Tomorrow, I'll flush trim the back and start on the 2nd one.
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Really helpful pics for me as a woodworking noob. Those strap clamps are cool
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Nother update:
2nd tower is glued and under the clamps! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213640&size=large)
I also stained a couple pieces of my test veneer, but im not too keen on the color, its more burgundy than the red i was expecting, but with a little oil, the sheen is still quite nice!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213641&size=large)
Really helpful pics for me as a woodworking noob. Those strap clamps are cool
Glad I could help! This is actually my first time using clamps and assembling a kit as well! :P
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I agree with Alex, that veneer will be killer when you're all done.
Not sure if you've seen this but here is a pair of Encore's I did some time ago for my nephew... he and his girlfriend wanted red so....
I used some water based red dye I picked up from Lee Valley, they do have a few differentshades, you'd have to go look at a color chart but it worked well. The more you put on, the darker it will get, don't get it on your cloths or the shop floor..... trust me
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144419.msg1543794#msg1543794
jay
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Nother update:
I also stained a couple pieces of my test veneer, but im not too keen on the color, its more burgundy than the red i was expecting, but with a little oil, the sheen is still quite nice!
Hobbs, looking at that I'm betting you're using stain of some type. If you want it to look like the guitar you've pictured elsewhere, dye and tone coats are in your future. Stain will surely obscure that lovely grain. Dye doesn't do that but has other sometimes weird characteristics.
Conceptually you can think of it as if you're looking through a red colored lens at the wood.
If you're willing to take time and effort to get there, I can help, but it's not what I'd call a quick and dirty process.
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Hobbs, looking at that I'm betting you're using stain of some type. If you want it to look like the guitar you've pictured elsewhere, dye and tone coats are in your future. Stain will surely obscure that lovely grain. Dye doesn't do that but has other sometimes weird characteristics.
Conceptually you can think of it as if you're looking through a red colored lens at the wood.
If you're willing to take time and effort to get there, I can help, but it's not what I'd call a quick and dirty process.
Count me as one person that would be very interested in any knowledge you share in this area! I did find that the depth of the grain on my ribbon mahogany veneer came out nice but not as three dimensional as I was hoping. Perhaps it was the use of stain before the poly.
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Hobbs, looking at that I'm betting you're using stain of some type. If you want it to look like the guitar you've pictured elsewhere, dye and tone coats are in your future. Stain will surely obscure that lovely grain. Dye doesn't do that but has other sometimes weird characteristics.
Conceptually you can think of it as if you're looking through a red colored lens at the wood.
If you're willing to take time and effort to get there, I can help, but it's not what I'd call a quick and dirty process.
I am sertainly using a dye,
But by all means! The stain im using says i can use it in the wood, or mixed into laquer, so maybe be latter option is my best bet? Any info you can share will be greatly appreciated!
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If you want the curl to pop a little bit you can always dye your veneer black sand it off and then use your red dye. By sanding the black is left in the curl. Here is a pic of some Infinity RS-3000 speakers I worked because I was getting bored this last srping.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213643)
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What is the product you're using? Are you planning on spraying lacquer?
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What is the product you're using? Are you planning on spraying lacquer?
Its a product from VeneerSupplies called Transtint. I don't have a sprayer or booth, but I do know some guys that paint/restore cars that may be able have them do for me or let me borrow their booth
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Transtint is a good and versatile product. Jeff Jewitt of Homestead Finishing developed it. If you're going for the bright red like guitar you've shown, I think Perfect Red or Bright Red would be a place to start. I'm guessing what you've got is Bordeaux or something else.
If your friends are willing to work with you or loan you a gun the process in essence is:
1. Get surface flat and sanded to 180 or perhaps 220
2. Dye to desired color and intensity. Sneak up on it, get to saturated in color and it's hard to unwind.
3. Tint next few topcoats, clear the last.
I've also dissolved Transtint in lacquer thinner and feather sprayed in between topcoats. You can do bursts or darken edges and lots of other effects by concentrating in specific areas or even over stencils or frisket paper.
The nice thing about using dye to tone coat is it doesn't cloud grain so you don't obscure all that's going on in that grain. The lens analogy is a good thing to keep in mind. Pigment in lacquer is more opaque.
Jeff's got some good info on his site and I think a forum, although I don't visit often. I have several of his books, but I suspect the web and YouTube have all but replaced them.
https://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/
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Yeah i started with "Mahogany Red" cuz the site made it appear like a darker red, but it definitely looks more like Bordeaux, which i imagine leans further purple. But the brighter red is definitely the look im going for, with a black front, tho i may just veneer the whole front and sides & paint only the waveguide/bottom/grill/shelf. I've got a fair amount of veneer to work with thankfully. Matched pair of sheets.
I ended up going with "Perfect Red" this time, which will be here in a couple days. But I definitely plan on having this project be a slow & steady one, read up on that site to figure out how to best proceed.l in the meantime
Should i be sticking with lacquer, dye and lacquer thinner to make it thin enough for a spray gun, & when you say "dye to desired color" do you mean the dye the wood or the lacquer? Im guessing the lacquer and spray on test strips to get desired results?
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Yeah i started with "Mahogany Red" cuz the site made it appear like a darker red, but it definitely looks more like Bordeaux, which i imagine leans further purple. But the brighter red is definitely the look im going for, with a black front, tho i may just veneer the whole front and sides & paint only the waveguide/bottom/grill/shelf. I've got a fair amount of veneer to work with thankfully. Matched pair of sheets.
I ended up going with "Perfect Red" this time, which will be here in a couple days. But I definitely plan on having this project be a slow & steady one, read up on that site to figure out how to best proceed.l in the meantime
Should i be sticking with lacquer, dye and lacquer thinner to make it thin enough for a spray gun, & when you say "dye to desired color" do you mean the dye the wood or the lacquer? Im guessing the lacquer and spray on test strips to get desired results?
Concentration in carrier (alcohol) will control intensity. Lacquer shouldn't have to be thinned for spraying, but you may want to for the tone coats. Transtints can be mixed and matched. I'd get your base color with dye alone, then build depth and shift color slightly with topcoats. Alcohol evaporates quickly so while you can't thin lacquer with it, it can be used in between lacquer topcoats as long at it's allowed to dry.
I like lacquer and almost all nasty solvent finishes for their versatility, quick drying, and sometimes toughness (conversion varnish), but I'm old school in that regard. Choose a workable path and stay on it. The wheel has been invented already. You need a good respirator and ventilation with all of it.
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Concentration in carrier (alcohol) will control intensity. Lacquer shouldn't have to be thinned for spraying, but you may want to for the tone coats. Transtints can be mixed and matched. I'd get your base color with dye alone, then build depth and shift color slightly with topcoats. Alcohol evaporates quickly so while you can't thin lacquer with it, it can be used in between lacquer topcoats as long at it's allowed to dry.
I like lacquer and almost all nasty solvent finishes for their versatility, quick drying, and sometimes toughness (conversion varnish), but I'm old school in that regard. Choose a workable path and stay on it. The wheel has been invented already. You need a good respirator and ventilation with all of it.
So if I'm reading you correctly, add the dye to the lacquer for the desired intensity, and blend in more lacquer with each coat, to reduce intensity with each coat, and none for the last coat?
Or are you saying to spray clear lacquer, spray the dye at full strength, and lessen the concentration with alcohol between each layer of lacquer?
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I think what Peter is saying is to dye your veneer if not as deep red as you would like then add some transtint to you finish and use it as a toner. When adding transtint to the finish it is more translucent color (ie not as colorful) and you can keep adding coats until the desired color is achieved. This allows you to sneak upon the color you were looking for. And IMHO gives you a color with more depth. Finishing is everything. It can make or break your project.
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So if I'm reading you correctly, add the dye to the lacquer for the desired intensity, and blend in more lacquer with each coat, to reduce intensity with each coat, and none for the last coat?
Or are you saying to spray clear lacquer, spray the dye at full strength, and lessen the concentration with alcohol between each layer of lacquer?
Dye at full strength to me is undiluted, don't do that!
Alex says it better than me, it's a lot for me to convey in a few sentences. It just gets too in depth and most folks would like pat answers, which is why I hesitate to bring it up on this forum.
There isn't a specific formula, it's a work-up-to-it methodology that lets you decide with each coat. Not like paint. One cool thing about lacquer is film thickness isn't critical and it dries fast so you get previews along the way.
Your painter friends will relate to this: It's kinda akin to candy finishes on cars. Base color, then translucent color, then clear top coat(s).
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Hobbs- That quilted maple is going to be stunning! I am super excited to see this build :D
Peter- You are really helpful and this type of help is really appreciated. We appreciated this type of insight on our build. We would not have achieved what we were looking for without some pro-level advice.
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Dye at full strength to me is undiluted, don't do that!
Alex says it better than me, it's a lot for me to convey in a few sentences. It just gets too in depth and most folks would like pat answers, which is why I hesitate to bring it up on this forum.
There isn't a specific formula, it's a work-up-to-it methodology that lets you decide with each coat. Not like paint. One cool thing about lacquer is film thickness isn't critical and it dries fast so you get previews along the way.
Your painter friends will relate to this: It's kinda akin to candy finishes on cars. Base color, then translucent color, then clear top coat(s).
LMAO okay I think so get it now. lol
Stain the veneer & add tone coats as needed. Got it! :thumb:
I'm all about learning, tho I'm definitely a person that learns better by watching & doing better than just reading. lol so probably a good idea to run off to youtube then!
I can't blame ya for not wanting to delve too deep into it tho, all of these projects take time. Once the new dye arrives ill take some new strips of the veneer and brush on some thin coats of dyed veneer to see what sort of effect I can achieve. Before I move to the actual towers.
Candy finishes are a good way to explain it.
Thanks, Peter!
Hobbs- That quilted maple is going to be stunning! I am super excited to see this build :D
Quilted maple has always been one of my favorite woods visually, as are birdseye, curly and flamed.
So working with some for this build is gunna be interesting!
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Forgot the share the pic of the assembled cabinets! :duh:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213673&size=large)
Unfortunately the clamps were new so also really greasy.. I'll do the edge trimming tomorrow as well as some light sanding to clean them up before moving onto cutting the strips of veneer & working on flattening it out with clamps and boards.
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Looking good! Are you planning to veneer the sides/top/back and paint the baffle?
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Looking good! Are you planning to veneer the sides/top/back and paint the baffle?
Not 100% sure yet, but probably paint on the front/bottom and veneer on the back/sides/top. But i may veneer the majority of the cabinet except the waveguide, shelf and bottom. Not 100% sure tho.. but if i wanna do a more guitar style veneering, itll need to be a split veneer along the center of the face, but i dont think im skilled enough for that yet.. :p
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Got the "perfect red" dye in this time.
I also did a little bit of "tone coating" with a small brush to get a better understanding of how this is supposed to look in a more "finished" appearance.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213841&size=large)
Left: dye & toned lacquer
Right: dye only
While it is definitely more "red" than the "Mahogany Red" it's still not quite the tone I'm looking for, so I've already ordered a bottle of "bright red" which will go thru the same process as above.
I want to do a few different tests as well, where 3 strips will be dyed and toned with the same base color, then strips that are dyed one color but toned with different colors to find which option I think will look best.
So look forward to that in the near future! :thumb:
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That red is really going to pop! Can’t wait to see it.
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Okay! I got the "Bright Red" dye in finally, & its much closer to what I'm looking for! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214068&size=large)
Natural, Bright Red, Perfect Red & Mahogany Red.
Next is to tone-coat the samples with different dyes to see if I can find a combo I like most!
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Heres the same samples with 3 "perfect red" tone coats.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214079&size=large)
Next will be fresh strips coated with "Bright Red" tone coats.
Ill also do a 3rd test with "Mahogany Red" tone coats after that.
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Thanks for documenting this process Hobbs. It's fun to watch you experiment to find the finish you like, and I'm learning some new things at the same time. :thumb:
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I’m liking the red! Giving me ideas, to match my Carver Crimson 275 amplifiers!
Barry
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Thanks! It's been a fun process, & I'm definitely learning a lot in the process! :D
The next test will be the primary step in picking the color I want, with the 3rd test being just for fun, since I already have the dye on hand.
Glad I can bring yall along for the journey! :thumb:
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Test batch #2!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214111&size=large)
Top: 3x Perfect Red coats
Bottom: 4x Bright Red coats
I personally like the Bright Red base with Perfect Red tone coats.
The Bright red only is a little more "warm" red, with the BR+PR is a little more balanced. Imo
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214112&size=large)
My dad seems to like the PR only strip most, but I think it's mostly cuz that strip has more of the curl in it.
This is gunna be a tough pick lol
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I have my favorite, but I don’t think you’d make a bad choice with any of the middle 4.
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Those darker finishes remind me of the B&W Signature 805s they made years ago with a red birds eye maple. It was a great looking speaker in terms of finish and I am sure yours is going to look and sound even better.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214188)
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That is really nice looking for sure, i really do love the look of birdseye maple, esp with really deep wine colors like burgundy.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214450&size=xlarge)
This is how they appear in my room under the diffused lights rather than using indirect sunlight or a more singular source.
Still leaning towards center-left, tbh, but its a tough choice, cuz center-right looks good too..
I've also wanted to start working on flattening out the veneer, now that I've got the supplies I need, but the weather lately has been absolutely atrocious, with constant rain & ultra-high humidity. Also, with the product I'm using to flatten the veneer, this process really needs to be done outside for adequate ventilation.
So hopefully things will clear up soon so I can finally get started..
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Not sure if it’s Just the variation of grain pattern but center right has some really cool depth.
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It's definitely a variation in grain pattern.
For these test strips, i used the edges which have areas that are far less wavy/textured than the areas in the center I plan to use for the speakers themselves.
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Got it. I think any of them applied over the whole speaker will look great.
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For sure! Im still not 100% sure if I want to do that yet though.
I'll just need to take a closer look at my sheets and figure out what layout will work best. Im still debating on going with a black front with veneer on the sides/back/bottom.
But ill definitely be showing my progress one way or another! :thumb:
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Okay, I think I've found the color Im going to go with!
It's actually a hybrid of roughly 50/50 Bright & Perfect red for dye & 65/35 for tone coats.
It's the bottom-right sample.
Its got plenty of depth, without being burgundy or too bright.. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214664&size=large)
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That looks fantastic!
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That looks fantastic!
Thanks! I think so too! Its got the right balance I need.
(Gunna re-share it since we're onto page 3 now. lol)
Okay, I think I've found the color Im going to go with!
It's actually a hybrid of roughly 50/50 Bright & Perfect red for dye & 65/35 for tone coats.
It's the bottom-right sample.
Its got plenty of depth, without being burgundy or too bright.. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214664&size=large)
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I like it! These are going to be beautiful!
Barry
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That red is sweet!
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That red is sweet!
Thanks! I'm really happy with it too! It's gunna be absolutely gorgeous once its all stained, toned, & cleared, esp if I can manage to match the colors, thankfully i have these sample strips to make sure I get it down perfectly. :thumb:
Still hoping weather clears up this week like its supposed to so I can cut & flatten the veneer to start making progress again.
The gulf & atlantic have been incredibly active with storms the last few weeks, hopefully this week we'll finally get some good weather soon. *crosses fingers*
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FINALLY! A day without 100% humidity and rain!
Got the first 2 sheets of veneer flattening under plenty of clamps & pressure. Ill check them tomorrow to change the paper towels and hopefully finish drying it out perfectly flat.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214955&size=large)
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Between weather and life in general, I haven't been able to get far with the veneer, and flattening hasn't been a particularly fruitful endeavour..
The outsides look good, but the middle has tight ripples I cant get rid of, so I'm trying one more time, but I don't really expect much to go any different. I suspect I just can't apply enough pressure esp in the center to prevent the ripples.
I may have to call around & see if a carpenter in the area can flatten it for me, or even apply it to the cabinet..
But in the meantime, I got the flush bit Peter recommended in his XLS veneer video, and trimmed/sanded down the ledges/edges.
I'm only planning to paint the front in a matte or satin black, so I rounded over the top front edge & it honestly looks really nice.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217158&size=large)
Ill check the progress on the veneer again tomorrow but I'm not particularly hopeful, but only time will tell.
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Between weather and life in general, I haven't been able to get far with the veneer, and flattening hasn't been a particularly fruitful endeavour..
The outsides look good, but the middle has tight ripples I cant get rid of, so I'm trying one more time, but I don't really expect much to go any different. I suspect I just can't apply enough pressure esp in the center to prevent the ripples.
I may have to call around & see if a carpenter in the area can flatten it for me, or even apply it to the cabinet..
But in the meantime, I got the flush bit Peter recommended in his XLS veneer video, and trimmed/sanded down the ledges/edges.
I'm only planning to paint the front in a matte or satin black, so I rounded over the top front edge & it honestly looks really nice.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217158&size=large)
Ill check the progress on the veneer again tomorrow but I'm not particularly hopeful, but only time will tell.
What brand/kind of veneer will you be using?
I hope it goes well with your build!!! I will check in tomorrow night. I will start my build this weekend. Did you purchase Danny's speaker wire? I purchased 9 feet minus the six inches on both ends for the terminals. I'm hoping 8 feet will be enough. I will mostly do near field listening, but just to be safe I bought a couple feet extra in length if I ever do move my system to a bigger room.
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What brand/kind of veneer will you be using?
I hope it goes well with your build!!! I will check in tomorrow night. I will start my build this weekend. Did you purchase Danny's speaker wire? I purchased 9 feet minus the six inches on both ends for the terminals. I'm hoping 8 feet will be enough. I will mostly do near field listening, but just to be safe I bought a couple feet extra in length if I ever do move my system to a bigger room.
Its a raw quilted maple veneer. Probably should have spent a little more for some paper backed maple instead.. :P
Thanks! Ill try to write up an update sometime in the morning tomorrow.
I did! Im currently using them on my X-LS.
I ordered 12-ft of the 16-strand cable which when the rope is inserted made both lengths roughly 5'4" which is just long enough for my current desk set up. When I get ready to work on building a longer pair, i plan to order about 22 ft or so, which should give me closer to 10ft per side.
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Its a raw quilted maple veneer. Probably should have spent a little more for some paper backed maple instead.. :P
Thanks! Ill try to write up an update sometime in the morning tomorrow.
I did! Im currently using them on my X-LS.
I ordered 12-ft of the 16-strand cable which when the rope is inserted made both lengths roughly 5'4" which is just long enough for my current desk set up. When I get ready to work on building a longer pair, i plan to order about 22 ft or so, which should give me closer to 10ft per side.
I also bought the 16 strand. Where did you buy the rope?
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I also bought the 16 strand. Where did you buy the rope?
Hope Depot. Tho I should have gone with 3/8" or 1/2" rope instead of 5/8" just to make it a little easier on myself, its a little tight for the 16-strand cable.
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Hope Depot. Tho I should have gone with 3/8" or 1/2" rope instead of 5/8" just to make it a little easier on myself, its a little tight for the 16-strand cable.
Hope depot? You mean home depot? If it's not too much to ask could you send me a link of the rope you bought? Thank you for the advice!! I was actually thinking last night how much length I would lose if I bought something too thick.
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Hope depot? You mean home depot? If it's not too much to ask could you send me a link of the rope you bought? Thank you for the advice!! I was actually thinking last night how much length I would lose if I bought something too thick.
Ye, Home Depot. My bad. lol
Uhh... I bought it in store so I didn't need to buy a 200' spool. I just got 10" and trimmed down the excess.
Here's the specific item tho: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-5-8-in-x-200-ft-Polypropylene-Solid-Braid-Rope-Black-72650/206094558
You loose a little over 2" of cable length for every foot of 5/8" rope.
If you use something a little smaller like 3/8" or 1/2" rope you'll probably be closer to under 2" per foot.
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Checked on the veneer again and its still got that heavy center ripple..
So I guess ill start calling around to seeing what my options are. :roll:
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Ye, Home Depot. My bad. lol
Uhh... I bought it in store so I didn't need to buy a 200' spool. I just got 10" and trimmed down the excess.
Here's the specific item tho: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-5-8-in-x-200-ft-Polypropylene-Solid-Braid-Rope-Black-72650/206094558
You loose a little over 2" of cable length for every foot of 5/8" rope.
If you use something a little smaller like 3/8" or 1/2" rope you'll probably be closer to under 2" per foot.
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Checked on the veneer again and its still got that heavy center ripple..
So I guess ill start calling around to seeing what my options are. :roll:
Thanks for the advice! I ended up purchasing 1/2.
I kept looking through your journey and noticed your using just wood glue to assemble everything? Or do you use a nail gun at some points?
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Thanks for the advice! I ended up purchasing 1/2.
I kept looking through your journey and noticed your using just wood glue to assemble everything? Or do you use a nail gun at some points?
Just glue and lots of clamps! :thumb:
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Just glue and lots of clamps! :thumb:
For anybody reading this with the speaker wire don't get 5/8. Get the 1/2 like I did. It's easy to run it through. Though the cord may come untangled at first due to the ends of the speaker wire poking at the cord. Make sure you isolate the ends from the cord when feeding the cord.
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For anybody reading this with the speaker wire don't get 5/8. Get the 1/2 like I did. It's easy to run it through. Though the cord may come untangled at first due to the ends of the speaker wire poking at the cord. Make sure you isolate the ends from the cord when feeding the cord.
I actually put electrical tape around both the ends to prevent it from unraveling. It worked prefectly for me, & made sliding the rope thru a little easier, despite it's tight fit.
But I'll definitely plan on using 1/2" rope once i make a 2nd pair for a more dedicated listening space. :thumb:
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I actually put electrical tape around both the ends to prevent it from unraveling. It worked prefectly for me, & made sliding the rope thru a little easier, despite it's tight fit.
But I'll definitely plan on using 1/2" rope once i make a 2nd pair for a more dedicated listening space. :thumb:
Hobbs, thank you for the advice in regards to the speaker wire.
Again I originally purchased 9 feet from Danny 16 strand. I purchased 1/2" cord and I "lost" 1.5 feet. I have 7'5" feet to work with which is enough for my room. I did use masking tape on each end and it did help.
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Hobbs, thank you for the advice in regards to the speaker wire.
Again I originally purchased 9 feet from Danny 16 strand. I purchased 1/2" cord and I "lost" 1.5 feet. I have 7'5" feet to work with which is enough for my room. I did use masking tape on each end and it did help.
You're most welcome!
Always happy to help! :thumb:
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Good news on the veneer!
I changed up how I clamp the veneer, mostly removing the outer clamps to focusing on just the center, and that has really helped flatten those ripples out.
Now I'll focus getting a 2nd set of veneer flattened so I can work on gluing it to the sides of the cabinets. :thumb:
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How are you guys doing the actual wire braiding? Is there a video somewhere showing that?
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How are you guys doing the actual wire braiding? Is there a video somewhere showing that?
The wire is already braided, you just need to feed rope into it. Then separate the different colored strands at each end to terminate into connectors.
Danny has a great video showing the assembly process here:
https://youtu.be/DfjQJxeTANE
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General update so I can keep tab on things that are either in progress or working on down the line.
Veneer:
Glue & flush trim the first batch of veneer.
flatten 2nd batch, repeat for back side.
Stain, tone, & clear w/ lacquer.
Prime & paint all remaining surfaces. (Face, top/slope & bottom)
Top grill:
Prime & paint black
Cover with black cloth.
Crossover plans:
Sonicaps & Miflex Copper bypass caps
Path Audio resistors
Erse 14AWG foil inductors
Servo sub stands:
Danny was looking to sell a pair of them when I visited last month, & the OB setup should compliment my Studios really nicely where/when I can listen to them in the unused family room, since it's a spacious room with a vaulted ceiling. (I dont remember if they're dual or triple 8" subs tho) I'm really excited for these! :thumb:
(I was really tempted to buy his X-Omnis from him too... :lol:)
Cables:
I plan to purchase another set of Danny's 16-strand DIY kit, but for use in the main room, probably doing 8-10' runs. Bananas & Tube connecors.
Etc:
Awaiting availability of New NQ woofers to place the order.
No-rez for inside & upper slope.
Assemble & mount crossover
Quick setup & listen in room before 40-100hr break/burn-in time.
Then finally, enjoy.
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Update!
Got the flattened veneer glued to one speaker!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217653&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217654&size=large)
Gotta start flattening the 2nd batch of veneer next! :thumb:
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Looks great!
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Really Really Nice!
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Thank ya both! I'm really happy that im finally making good progress on these!
Hopefully i can get to work on flattening the next set of veneer tonight, and have that glued to the 2nd speaker by the end of the week. So I can start work on the back/bottom and get them dyed/stained, tone coated & cleared asap before latent moisture becomes a problem. Thankfully, a cold-front is moving in today which should mean cool dry air for the next few days.
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NQ woofers are those an upgrade? Or the standard woofers that were introduced with the studios?
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Crossover plans:
Sonicaps & Miflex Copper bypass caps
Path Audio resistors
Erse 14AWG foil inductors
Which Sonicaps and bypass caps? And how do you decide? I'm not an electrical guy so I don't understand any of this. Is it budget driven - get the best you can afford?
I just started building the same kit and I'm already wondering what to do with the electronics.
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NQ woofers are those an upgrade? Or the standard woofers that were introduced with the studios?
The M165-NQ is the standard woofer for the studios and the NX series, tho most use the 16-Ohm version in parallel around the tweeter.
The model that should hopefully be arriving in the next couple weeks is a little different from the older versions that have been used until now The phase plug is more rounded than pointed, and the back is flat. According to Danny, when I visited back in October, the response on the current production run is a little bit smoother than the older models, but is otherwise identical.
Crossover plans:
Sonicaps & Miflex Copper bypass caps
Path Audio resistors
Erse 14AWG foil inductors
Which Sonicaps and bypass caps? And how do you decide? I'm not an electrical guy so I don't understand any of this. Is it budget driven - get the best you can afford?
I just started building the same kit and I'm already wondering what to do with the electronics.
The values of the electronics are all chosen by Danny and are already included in the kit along with the wiring diagram. But you can also chose to pick out your own parts if you wish.
That said I can imagine that the base kit with Sonicaps, Mills resistors, & air core inductors is already a fantastic way to go.
My choice for Path Audio & foil inductors was based on a couple different upgrades by others on the forum who have also done the same/similar upgrades in the past. I havent ordered them yet cuz I want to verify their values before purchasing.
But yes, essentially I wanted to get the best I can reasonably afford, hence why I'm passing on all copper caps, and going with Sonicaps & Miflex copper caps instead.
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Those are going to look great.
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My servo sub stands arrived from Danny today! :thumb:
(Yes that's an X-Statik in the background, the pair arrived today also~ :P )
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217682&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217683&size=large)
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Nice! Looking forward to your thoughts on them.
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Dang Hobbs your collection is expanding rapidly! :lol:
Nice job so far on the monitors, that finish is going to be beautiful. Looking forward to hearing what you think of the Statics too. Do those have upgraded crossovers?
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Ive listened to them for about an hour or so, with a single servo sub stand in the middle.
But so far they sound great! The mids are really clear & spacious, and since they dont play down very low, they offer plenty of detail.
That said, it does lack a bit of clarity and depth in the treble that my X-LS have, so I'm guessing its still the stock crossover.
But there are songs that sound better on these than my X-LS
The subs are really fast with lots of detail and easily hit into the 20s without the boom of my 12" Rythmik, I'm definitely excited to hear them running as a pair in the future tho! should help with the low end extension a fair bit. The lowest notes in Boz Scaggs "Thanks to You" are just a little thin, so the 2nd tower should help.
I've got their placement about 5' into the room, crossing just behind me, but I still need to dial in the sub a bit more. Depending on how I'm sitting the bass is either full or drops out. It's likely playing up too high, causing cancellations at the listening position.
Unfortunately one of the X-statiks was damaged in shipping, but I'm working with the seller on filing an insurance claim. I've sent a message to Danny to ask about possible repairs. Luckily its not catastrophic. but still a bummer. :(
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217699)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217700)
I would love to upgrade/replace the crossovers & add a pair of tube connectors in the future tho.
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Having owned and upgraded several X-series speakers I could easily identify what you're talking about. It's kind of a graininess. Sonicaps are much cleaner sounding.
Here's a shot of my upgraded X-Statik crossover with Sonic Platinums and Gen 2 as bypasses.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217709)
My Statiks also had some flexing of the open baffle section during shipping. Fortunately the Moho veneer does a good job of hiding it.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217710)
BTW, if your 12" sub is boomy then it's not dialed in right. Or it's in a bad spot in your room. There should be no boom unless it's in the recording.
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Having owned and upgraded several X-series speakers I could easily identify what you're talking about. It's kind of a graininess. Sonicaps are much cleaner sounding.
Here's a shot of my upgraded X-Statik crossover with Sonic Platinums and Gen 2 as bypasses.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217709)
My Statiks also had some flexing of the open baffle section during shipping. Fortunately the Moho veneer does a good job of hiding it.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217710)
BTW, if your 12" sub is boomy then it's not dialed in right. Or it's in a bad spot in your room. There should be no boom unless it's in the recording.
Yeah thats likely the case, i dunno if grainy is quite the right word, but but there's definitely a softness or veiled aspect to the sound.
My XLS just has the base kit with tube connectors, but i know it's already a head of the game in terms of overall quality. So ill probably order the sonicaps as upgrades, or go all out and do point to point wiring with the bigger inductors.
Hah thats interesting that your crack pattern is nearly identical to my own. At least yours does hide it really well.
I may do it "right" & replace the whole front baffle, or i may go the easier route and just sand it down and fill & seal in the problem spots then paint to match.
But I know if/when it gets shipped in the future, another hit like that will likely destroy it totally.. unless i can come up with an easy way to reinforce it & still remain hidden under a fresh coat of filler & paint.. or reinforce it before shipping..
It's no longer boomy since I've gotten it dialed in, thankfully. That said, it still loads the room differently than the OB servo stands, which still do a great job once they're dialed in.
After I get that room a cleaned up, (cuz its a total wreck now) I want to get both stands up and playing, cuz there's not quite enough room at the moment for both, unless I move the XStatiks aside and put my X-LS on the stands.
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Seems like it's impossible to avoid getting these really tight ripples in my veneer... But hopefully I can get this figured out..
(The joys of going with raw veneer rather than treated paper-back)
:roll:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217778&size=large)
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I'm just tossing this out there - I don't know if it would work or not. What about using a hot iron and using steam to flatten those pieces?
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I'm just tossing this out there - I don't know if it would work or not. What about using a hot iron and using steam to flatten those pieces?
I have tried that before, but it didnt really make much difference, sadly. But I'm sure i can get it worked out its just gonna take some time.. I've made progress since last night thankfully, but not ideal.
Steam isn't recommended tho, since it will cause the veneer to swell.
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I can't recall what you're using Hobs but, have you tried this ?
https://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Super-Soft-2-Veneer-Softener-Conditioner.html
Works great
jay
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Thats exactly what I'm using, but quilted maple is proving to be difficult to work with.
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I have in the past, sprayed wavy veneer with super soft the night before applying. Then give it a spritz with super soft just before applying it to the substrate the next morning. This was done using Veneer Supplies Heat Lock glue, and it has come out flat and is still in place to this day. I just started in the middle of the panel and worked out to the edges. You do take a chance though of the veneer splitting when being force flat with the glue and a hot iron. If it does not work it is hell trying to get the veneer back off, just to warn you.
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Yeah that's basically what I did with the first speaker.
Tho I'm not using heat lock adhesive, I'm just using their standard veneer glue which requires pressure for the first few hours, with pretty decent results, but it really takes some doing to get the veneer flat, & there's still a small bit of ripple in the middle, but its not noticable thankfully..
Pressing out the ripples really takes some doing. Checking on the veneer this evening, it's looking better, but its a slow process..
I need to find a better means of flattening than plywood 2x2 rods & clamps. But I'll get there! lol
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I need to find a better means of flattening than plywood 2x2 rods & clamps. But I'll get there! lol
I know nowhere near as good as real purpose-built tools, but maybe an aluminum or steel plate instead of plywood? Wandering down another hobby/tangent, a 45lb old school deep dish machined cast iron weight plate or a calibrated 20kg or 25kg steel weightlifting/powerlifting disc at 450mm diameter might be just big enough to do the job that might be handy to get if you don't have a lot of manufacturing or fabrication shops around where you live? A pair of plates and some clamps could make for a nice big flat press?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217654&size=large)
OMG. That is the best DIY speaker build I have ever seen!
You have inspired me. There is an excellent veneer place about a mile from here ( Homecraft Veneer) and I am heading over there Monday to see what i can do with my Encores which are bare MDF. I am thinking the same veneer with red dye and gloss black baffle.
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OMG. That is the best DIY speaker build I have ever seen!
You have inspired me. There is an excellent veneer place about a mile from here ( Homecraft Veneer) and I am heading over there Monday to see what i can do with my Encores which are bare MDF. I am thinking the same veneer with red dye and gloss black baffle.
Thanks so much! They've still got a long ways to go, but i've finally made some good progress with the veneer and have the first side, being glued onto the 2nd speaker! Hopefully i can have both sides finished today, & work on the remaining sides here soon. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217879&size=large)
Nice! Quality sheets of Quilted Maple certainly arent cheap, but if my dye/tone samples are anything to say about it, 100% going to be worth it onces its done.
Getting the right "Red" was tough but, I'm excited to get these finished soon!
And I'm glad I could inspire you to do something similar with your own pair of XLS! I love my pair of XLS, but they were always meant to be a stepping stone for my Studio build, even if my original plans for the veneer was a stained walnut, with a gloss black front.
I really recommend watching Peter's video on applying veneer to his XLS kit and using heatlock glue & paper-backed veneer instead, will be a lot easier to work with, since it wont require any clamps.. :P
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Hobbs:
Use multiple clamping cauls to evenly spread the veneer clamping pressure.
A Caul is a simply a slightly tapered clamp block that redistributes the clamp pressure from the clamped edge to the center of the panel.
Google ‘clamping cauls’ for creation and use instructions.
If you are using an intermediate melamine veneer pressure plate, the absolute caul quality does not matter nearly as much as for a typical full edge tabletop glue up .
Shawn
( PS wet wood and metal contact is a recipe for reaction staining )
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Nice build, thanks for sharing your build progress. I may give those a try. How are you dealing with the veneer edge along the side where it meets the front baffle? Will there be a sight step there?
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Hobbs:
Use multiple clamping cauls to evenly spread the veneer clamping pressure.
A Caul is a simply a slightly tapered clamp block that redistributes the clamp pressure from the clamped edge to the center of the panel.
Google ‘clamping cauls’ for creation and use instructions.
If you are using an intermediate melamine veneer pressure plate, the absolute caul quality does not matter nearly as much as for a typical full edge tabletop glue up .
Shawn
( PS wet wood and metal contact is a recipe for reaction staining )
Thats definitely going to be something Ill look into in the future, esp if I ever need to work with raw veneer again.. lol
Nice build, thanks for sharing your build progress. I may give those a try. How are you dealing with the veneer edge along the side where it meets the front baffle? Will there be a sight step there?
Thanks! It's been a slow, but good, learning process, and there are definitely thigs I would have done better, but so long as it looks good at the end, I'll be happy. :P
For the edge, I'm planning to use some wood filler or bondo to fill in/hide the edge/step.
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Dang, those are looking great.
You've got me reconsidering how I'm going to finish my cabinet sides (I'm doing the same build). My original plan was a faux paint for the sides. I'm going to do some test pieces and see how I like them.
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I've been making good progress on these puppies!
All the veneer is on, & the first speaker is dyed! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218010&size=large)
The dye is still wet, so the colors are still vibrant, it'll fade more purple/, but once I start adding the tone coats it'll come back really strong. Tomorrow I'll pick up some filler to hide the step/edge of the veneer.
Feels good to be making progress again. :thumb:
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That’s purty.
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outstanding, cant wait to see the final version. The red sure is nice!
Barry
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First tone coat is on! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218036&size=large)
Other cabinet is receiving some edge glue-ups where they didnt stick quite right. It should be ready for its first tone coat in a couple hours.
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That looks like it's still wet! Looking good tho...
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That looks like it's still wet! Looking good tho...
Exactly! I need to give this one a day for the lacquer to cure before sanding & another coat. After that all remaining coats will be clear coats. Hopefully over the weekend I can coat the 2nd speaker, but it needs to be a day when im off so i can take advantage of the warmer weather, otherwise I risk the lacquer turning cloudy.
Here's how it's looking now.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218048&size=large)
I've also started working on the grills for the top, both have been primed, & one has been painted, ready for applying the grill cloth.
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Nice work Hobbs. Can't wait to see it with a few coats of clear. I would also give it a cut and polish at the end once the final coat of clear is hard enough.
SC
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Absolutely stunning! Great work Hobbs!
Barry :beer:
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Thanks y'all! I'm really happy with how they're coming along!
I definitely plan to cut the current layer to hide some of the ripples before applying another tone coat & going clear from there once the rest of the speaker is ready for top the coats to hide seams.
I'm really happy with how nicely the color pops, quilted maple was definitely the right choice, much of a pain as it is to work with.. :lol:
Now that my mini vacation is over progress has haulted, aside from spraying the grill frames, may give them a light sand & another coat with the magnets intalled for easy removal.
Still got a long ways to go, but its all coming together~
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Both cabinets are tone coated, but still need a few more layers.
And in the process of working on these I learned a neat technique today that will replace the issues with sanding.
It's basically taking a razor & scraping along the length of the cabinet to flatten out the surface by taking down the high spots. Wish I had known about this technique sooner, but hey it'll make my life a little easier going forward. :thumb:
Hopefully Sunday I can make some more progress!
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Hi Hobbs,
How are you planning to install the NoRez? If you already had it on hand, would you have chosen to install it prior to completing the boxes? I assume it has to be cut into smaller pieces to get through the woofer hole if installing after completing the box.
I have the flat pack but not the speaker kit.
Thanks!
Billy
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Hi Hobbs,
How are you planning to install the NoRez? If you already had it on hand, would you have chosen to install it prior to completing the boxes? I assume it has to be cut into smaller pieces to get through the woofer hole if installing after completing the box.
I have the flat pack but not the speaker kit.
Thanks!
Billy
I think I would still plan to apply the norez after assembly.
I did the same with my XLS build.
And that is largely since its easier to glue up without having to worry about the norez being in the way.
It can be a little more cumbersome to apply after assembly, but I dont mind cutting the Norez into smaller strips, its fairly easy to do with a sharp razor or bow saw blade
I dont have the speaker kit either tbh. I'm still waiting on availability of the next batch of NQ woofers.
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Small update!
Done with tone coats! Now onto preparing the rest of the speaker!
I used wood filler to help hide the edges of the veneer, and fixed some small dings caused from frequently handling them for the tone coats, sanding, etc.
Used de-waxed shellac as recommended by others to help seal the MDF, tho the edges were far too absorbant, even after several coats. So I switched to a latex-based sealing primer for those sections, which has worked really well!
And how they're in the process of being primed!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219027&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219029&size=large)
Hopefully tomorrow I can do a little sanding, and start the painting process! :thumb:
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Hobbs, I'm curious about the "latex based sealer/primer". What is it? My experience with sanding latex paint is it's like sanding an inner tube. OK maybe not that bad, but you get the drift. Do they give a "dry enough to sand" time?
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I used a two heavy coats of dewaxed shellac sealer (zinsler) followed by a 2-part high build epoxy primer 70-80 um layer all MDF parts. (Taken from the auto body world)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3I2E8E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Ventilation is key, this is certainly nothing you want to breath or saturated your kitchen... light sand with 800 grit followed by a few coats of black on top followed by the spray max 2k matte clear coat.. hope this helps
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Hobbs, I'm curious about the "latex based sealer/primer". What is it? My experience with sanding latex paint is it's like sanding an inner tube. OK maybe not that bad, but you get the drift. Do they give a "dry enough to sand" time?
It's the Valspar bonding latex primer. It says it has a "30min dry time," but thats likely more "to the touch." i gave it 2 layers and let it for 24 hours since i had plans for the evening and work at 4am..
I sanded it with 600grit to smooth the texture from the brush i used, but It actually sanded really nicely. No gumminess or clogging, thankfully. I used it on all exposed edges and it does a pretty good job sealing over the open fibers and allowing for a smooth finish.
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Hobbs, sorry to jump in here but I have a suggestion for Peter. If you are going to use a latex paint as a sealer/primer I recommend using a flat paint. That might solve your sanding issues. Or better yet, Sherwin Williams has a latex product called Premium Wall and Wood Primer. It sands very nice. But the best stuff to use IMO if you don't mind the set up time, smell, and have the ability to spray is a white lacquer undercoat. As you may know cabinets are often sprayed with a lacquer sanding sealer before they are stained. For paint grade house trim some painters will spray the pine or MDF with a tinted lacquer undercoat so they will have an easy time sanding the trim smooth before applying paint.
Sherwin Williams used to carry a product by GSW paint called Bushwhacker which was a nice white pigmented lacquer undercoat but I can't find it locally any more. I finally found a product by PPG paints (their house paint stores not their auto paint stores) called Speedline Lacquer which is a white lacquer undercoat and it sands beautifully and allows you to build up a very smooth base for paint without breaking the bank.
Lastly, to keep MDF from soaking up the paint or sanding sealer I know painters that take drywall compound and basically smear it into the pours. I'd use the powder drywall mud and play with the consistency by adding more or less water. Sounds like a hassle but it is really quite easy. Drywall mud sands really easy as long as you buy the right one. They have a few different types. Little longer than I planned but hope it helps.
Lebo
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Yeah, mine is a flat-white latex primer.
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Hobbs, sorry to jump in here but I have a suggestion for Peter. If you are going to use a latex paint as a sealer/primer I recommend using a flat paint. That might solve your sanding issues. Or better yet, Sherwin Williams has a latex product called Premium Wall and Wood Primer. It sands very nice. But the best stuff to use IMO if you don't mind the set up time, smell, and have the ability to spray is a white lacquer undercoat. As you may know cabinets are often sprayed with a lacquer sanding sealer before they are stained. For paint grade house trim some painters will spray the pine or MDF with a tinted lacquer undercoat so they will have an easy time sanding the trim smooth before applying paint.
Sherwin Williams used to carry a product by GSW paint called Bushwhacker which was a nice white pigmented lacquer undercoat but I can't find it locally any more. I finally found a product by PPG paints (their house paint stores not their auto paint stores) called Speedline Lacquer which is a white lacquer undercoat and it sands beautifully and allows you to build up a very smooth base for paint without breaking the bank.
Lastly, to keep MDF from soaking up the paint or sanding sealer I know painters that take drywall compound and basically smear it into the pours. I'd use the powder drywall mud and play with the consistency by adding more or less water. Sounds like a hassle but it is really quite easy. Drywall mud sands really easy as long as you buy the right one. They have a few different types. Little longer than I planned but hope it helps.
Lebo
I'm just not a latex kinda guy, preferring nasty solvent based primers and top coats. But I am curious what others find useful. I've read of folks using drywall mud, but it is really ill suited for the task. Hot mud (powder) would be a little better but when better products exist I have to ask why? To me, painting a speaker cabinet has little in common with house painting.
Lacquer is another story. There's lots to like about it from my point of view, but less and less available to consumers. Sherwin Williams has an industrial coatings side, but not all stores carry it or even know it exists.
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Rain on my previous day off, Sunday, prevented any progress so I made some progress today instead!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219235&size=large)
I plan to do some more coats over the next couple days, with plenty of drying time in between. This is a satin black, and its pretty cool getting to see it finally all coming together!
Once im happy with the coverage, ill pull off the tape and begin coating the whole cabinet with clear spray lacquer, and probably by brush for the shelf/rear baffle. Since getting any sort of coverage in there has been a big test of my patience.. lol
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Rain on my previous day off, Sunday, prevented any progress so I made some progress today instead!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219235&size=large)
I plan to do some more coats over the next couple days, with plenty of drying time in between. This is a satin black, and its pretty cool getting to see it finally all coming together!
Once im happy with the coverage, ill pull off the tape and begin coating the whole cabinet with clear spray lacquer, and probably by brush for the shelf/rear baffle. Since getting any sort of coverage in there has been a big test of my patience.. lol
That looks promising.
Do you sand down the surface after each coat? I have no experience with this but that's what I saw in several YouTube videos of people who looked like they know what they are doing.
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That looks promising.
Do you sand down the surface after each coat? I have no experience with this but that's what I saw in several YouTube videos of people who looked like they know what they are doing.
Not after each coat, but i did do it once after i was starting to finally see full coverage, with an abrasive pad, and ill probably do it again before I lay down the next coat. And before I plan to finish it all with clear lacquer.
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Nicely done. Looking forward to seeing these through to completion :thumb:
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I’m planning to use Minwax Sanding Sealer for my base coat on the MDF. I already sanded the MDF down to a pretty good surface quality. I bought Krylon satin finish paint but am second guessing that decision. The plan was a dark baffle with light colored panels. I have a large supply of high quality sandpaper, all grits.
When you start cutting the NoRez, do you mind documenting the dimensions for the pieces? I forgot to measure the box pieces before assembling them. Otherwise, I’ll probably just cut up cardboard pieces and go through the guess and check iterations.
Thanks!
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How were you thinking of applying the Krylon? I would suggest trying it on a practice piece first. I used Krylon satan black for the back and bottom of the cabinets I am building. This was applied with a brush and I found that it didn’t level much at all and brush marks were left when it dried. I suppose that, if applied with a roller, it would leave a nubby texture. That could an interesting. As a simple way to finish his smaller speakers, Danny showed how using a roller with the black he sells results in a similar finish. I considered that sort of finish for mine, but went with a more traditional varnish finish.
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I was planning to build it up, spraying thin coats over a few days, then sand it down. If the orange peel gets too bad, then sand down after a few coats before I lay down some more.
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Weather today ain the best so im gunna hold off on the cabinets,
But in the meantime, I've been working on the top grills instead, and got the first one finished! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219496&size=large)
Hopefully soon I can finish some painting & final touch-ups & work on finishing the cabinets with clear coats of lacquer.
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Did you purchase the fabric through simply speakers? Amazon? Not entirely sure how I will do this part. I will need to watch a few videos before I even start.
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I ordered it thru PartsExpress!
Its held on with lots of strips of 3M moulding tape, and glue in the corners fo prevent any lifting. Its not the cleanest look, but it works well enough to look clean.
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Nice job with the top grill.
I keep debating on whether to use fabric on mine or not. We have dogs and the house seems to be quite dusty, generally speaking. I'm afraid the cloth won't look good for very long and will be hard to keep clean, especially being a horizontal surface.
I'm eager to start finishing my baffles but other plans keep getting in the way, especially on the weekends.
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Nice job with the top grill.
I keep debating on whether to use fabric on mine or not. We have dogs and the house seems to be quite dusty, generally speaking. I'm afraid the cloth won't look good for very long and will be hard to keep clean, especially being a horizontal surface.
I'm eager to start finishing my baffles but other plans keep getting in the way, especially on the weekends.
I don't see a problem with the fabric at all. Dusty, dog friendly environment here and have never had an issue with any speaker grill cloth. Plus the grills make for a nice finish touch. When I ordered my fabric from SpeakerWorks, the smallest option was a piece 36"x67". (well under $20) You could stretch new grill clothes for years and still have material left over. Frankly, the exposed 5" driver would be far more worrisome than a grill cloth if you have large dogs.
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Do I need to consider thickness of the fabric so it will be fit snuggly? or is speaker fabric for the most part has a universal thickness?
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Do I need to consider thickness of the fabric so it will be fit snuggly? or is speaker fabric for the most part has a universal thickness?
My fabric is moderately thick cuz it was the nicer of fhe two main black cloth fabrics, (Mellowtone) but not crazy by any means, around $25 for a roll.
the adhesive sollution I used added some thickness as well, especially around the corners, and bottom so it sits up a little higher (1-2mm) than it would otherwise, and on the sides, its fairly snug, but it wont get stuck and can easily be pulling out with a magnet or by hand if needed, but also won't rattle or shift when I test fit them yesterday.
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Pulled the tape off one of them to see what touch ups are next after the main sections are finished before I begin the finishing coats.
Not too bad, just need to touch up the edges! :thumb:
Have a couple pics! (Sorry about the mess! :P)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219541&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219540&size=xlarge)
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fantabulous!
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Do I need to consider thickness of the fabric so it will be fit snuggly? or is speaker fabric for the most part has a universal thickness?
No, different thicknesses are available. So you have decide if you want material that's thicker and more durable or material that's fairly light weight. The lighter material will be bit more transparent if the grills are left in place. But I have a feeling most will take the grills off when listening anyway.
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No, different thicknesses are available. So you have decide if you want material that's thicker and more durable or material that's fairly light weight. The lighter material will be bit more transparent if the grills are left in place. But I have a feeling most will take the grills off when listening anyway.
Yeah the main differences are mostly of either of quality or style/color You could easily get away with a generic porch-screen material if you wanted, or a nice fabric from a craft store.
Hell you could even use a plain q$5 cotton/polyester blend t-shirt from Wal-Mart if thats what you wanted to do.. :lol:
The NX Studio is definitely different that its probably the only speaker to have a top-mounted grill. (Not including the AV-O/X-Omni which some models had a front/top grill)
90%+ of speakers only have drivers on the front. Tho I have seen some OB setups with grills on the backs to prevent children from messing with the crossover/wires.
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Really nice work!
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Pretty amazing work!
The red and black work really well together, along with blending the front into the top. The wood grain looks almost like marble in the picture.
And I especially like the speaker for a speaker stand... :lol:
On the subject of the grills - What are you using to hold them in place? If it is magnets, are they behind the cloth or will they go thru it?
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Thank y'all!
Yeah! I'm really happy with the look so far, & finally seeing it all come together makes me excited to get this finished up.
Yeah! Quilted maple has always been one of my favorite wood grains! It really stands out with the dye and toned lacquer!
Me too! Ive been using them with my XLS and they sound great! Really fast and detailed subs, their only limitation is room size.
They aren't fastened, they're just set in place, but they're snug enough to not move around.
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Those look great! It's inspiring me to get moving on my NX Studio's, especially now that we are past the holidays.
I'm guessing we are both in the same boat - waiting for parts to come in to order the electronics for this kit.
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Those look great! It's inspiring me to get moving on my NX Studio's, especially now that we are past the holidays.
I'm guessing we are both in the same boat - waiting for parts to come in to order the electronics for this kit.
Yup! Once the kit arrives, I'll be ordering my own set of resistors and inductors based on the values listed in the schematics sheet.
But I'll be able to get things test fit & finished up in the meantime, thankfully!
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I had an unfortunate event when i was removing the protective tape from the veneered side, and a chunk of veneer was ripped out from the back side around the connector holes... :cry:
Luckily it wasn't too bad, so i just put down some fresh glue and clamped it back into place, now I just gotta fill in the cracks with a few layers of lacquer..
Ive got the first layer on now, but it's been too cold outside to apply any more at the moment..
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219628&size=large)
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Ugh!
Looking better already. Hope it finishes up ok.
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At least it happened on the backside, they are still absolutely gorgeous. You are going to enter a new realm of hifi once you get those running.
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Ugh!
Looking better already. Hope it finishes up ok.
Yeah! i think once I coat and edge the area flat a few more times it will be nearly invisible. Hopefully the weather will cooperate, or I'll just end up working on it out in the garage. So I wont have to wait on the weather.
At least it happened on the backside, they are still absolutely gorgeous. You are going to enter a new realm of hifi once you get those running.
No kidding, it could definitely have been a lot worse, all things considered.. i remember watching a video a month or so ago on how to repair old veneer that had peeled up, and that really helped me already have a plan on how to repair them in case of such an issue.
Im excited to finally get these finished and running finally! Its been a long, steady process, but it's been worth it, so far! :thumb:
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"In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘寂) is a world view centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of appreciating beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete" in nature."
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Thats too bad!!! I could hear you screaming from my home in Michigan. But it ain't broke until you can't fix it.
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"In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘寂) is a world view centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of appreciating beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete" in nature."
That is perfect view imperfections... I like it. :thumb:
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Thats too bad!!! I could hear you screaming from my home in Michigan. But it ain't broke until you can't fix it.
Exactly! :lol:
It's gunna be near invisible once I get a few more layers are ready to go, thankfully! :thumb:
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Man... This is definitely a learning process... :duh:
I tried brushing some lacquer onto the inside of the slope to save some time and get into some tight spots, but it ate clean thru the paint, and started dissolving the primer underneath, causing it to bubble and peel..
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219817&size=large)
I've since scraped it like shown above. Gunna need to re-tape, seal and paint those sections again, and fix some areas that are now spotted with fingerprints & stains...
Not how I was hoping to spend today..
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I think this time I heard your scream here in NY :bawl:
That really sucks. :o
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That's one area I wasn't going to be too fussy about. Just painted it like the like the rest of the speaker and left well enough alone. Came out fairly decent considering it caught a bit of overspray when painting the speaker's main body. I figured that's what the grills are for if it bothered me, plus didn't I see some have covered that sloped area with acoustic damping material anyway :scratch:
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That's one area I wasn't going to be too fussy about. Just painted it like the like the rest of the speaker and left well enough alone. Came out fairly decent considering it caught a bit of overspray when painting the speaker's main body. I figured that's what the grills are for if it bothered me, plus didn't I see some have covered that sloped area with acoustic damping material anyway :scratch:
Yeah.. once I get it resprayed I'm not gunna fuss with it, just leave it be. But thats also why I wanted to brush it on instead of spray, but it looks like the solvent in the brush lacquer is strong enough to break down the paint.
Yes, the slope is intended to have norez applied to it.
I think this time I heard your scream here in NY :bawl:
That really sucks. :o
You ain't kidding! :lol:
It's what i get for trying to cut corners! :P
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You're not alone in having build issues. I've had more problems on my two current projects than I've had in the past 5 years combined. It's gotta be in the air :duh:
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You're not alone in having build issues. I've had more problems on my two current projects than I've had in the past 5 years combined. It's gotta be in the air :duh:
It must be.. I just hope i have fewer issues with my upcoming X-Statik build/rebuild... :roll:
Im just glad I'm catching all these issues with one speaker and not both of them... lol
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How wide is the front baffle on the NX-studios?
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Approximately 8.75" wide
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It must be.. I just hope i have fewer issues with my upcoming X-Statik build/rebuild... :roll:
Im just glad I'm catching all these issues with one speaker and not both of them... lol
Sorry to side track here, but if you do a build thread of the X-Statik, would you mind posting a link to it here? I would like to see how that goes, when you get there. There may be a set of those in my future too.
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Sorry to side track here, but if you do a build thread of the X-Statik, would you mind posting a link to it here? I would like to see how that goes, when you get there. There may be a set of those in my future too.
Absolutely! I had to give up the AV123 XStatik tower that was damaged in shipping in order to get a refund from Fedex. So I'm gunna use that money to build a replacement tower and upgrade the crossovers in both the new and old towers. (Sonicaps w/ copper bypass caps & mills resisitors)
So a build thread will definitely be in the works once I get the kit and flatpack from Danny & Killian, hopefully in the next week or so! :thumb:
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I'm not trying to salt your wounds, Hobbs, but I thought it might be beneficial to point out to anyone reading this what went wrong here.
Latex paint is very susceptible to the solvent in lacquer, which is lacquer thinner. Most anything that wasn't designed to have lacquer thinner as its solvent would have a similar reaction.
Common thinking is that you can coat over a cured lacquer based finish with water base, but the reverse isn't true. In some cases, vinyl sealer or shellac can be used as a barrier coat between dissimilar finishes, but typically that's between oil based products and lacquer. I've never tried experimenting with a barrier coat in a situation like you have, but imagine there's enough movement differential between the two that it's going to be a problem over time if not immediately.
I have sprayed lacquer over what I thought was well cured DuraTex and it seemed fine initially, but ultimately failed in a kind of spectacular way. Mike had the evidence of this, I don't know if he still does. I think he intended to strip and refinish, but I learned a good lesson. I may have photos but suffice to say I won't do a repeat of that performance.
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I'm not trying to salt your wounds, Hobbs, but I thought it might be beneficial to point out to anyone reading this what went wrong here.
Latex paint is very susceptible to the solvent in lacquer, which is lacquer thinner. Most anything that wasn't designed to have lacquer thinner as its solvent would have a similar reaction.
Common thinking is that you can coat over a cured lacquer based finish with water base, but the reverse isn't true. In some cases, vinyl sealer or shellac can be used as a barrier coat between dissimilar finishes, but typically that's between oil based products and lacquer. I've never tried experimenting with a barrier coat in a situation like you have, but imagine there's enough movement differential between the two that it's going to be a problem over time if not immediately.
I have sprayed lacquer over what I thought was well cured DuraTex and it seemed fine initially, but ultimately failed in a kind of spectacular way. Mike had the evidence of this, I don't know if he still does. I think he intended to strip and refinish, but I learned a good lesson. I may have photos but suffice to say I won't do a repeat of that performance.
Peter,
Yep, I still have them. Haven't done anything with them yet. They're on the list of for when I get time to work on my own projects ...
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I'm not trying to salt your wounds, Hobbs, but I thought it might be beneficial to point out to anyone reading this what went wrong here.
Latex paint is very susceptible to the solvent in lacquer, which is lacquer thinner. Most anything that wasn't designed to have lacquer thinner as its solvent would have a similar reaction.
Common thinking is that you can coat over a cured lacquer based finish with water base, but the reverse isn't true. In some cases, vinyl sealer or shellac can be used as a barrier coat between dissimilar finishes, but typically that's between oil based products and lacquer. I've never tried experimenting with a barrier coat in a situation like you have, but imagine there's enough movement differential between the two that it's going to be a problem over time if not immediately.
I have sprayed lacquer over what I thought was well cured DuraTex and it seemed fine initially, but ultimately failed in a kind of spectacular way. Mike had the evidence of this, I don't know if he still does. I think he intended to strip and refinish, but I learned a good lesson. I may have photos but suffice to say I won't do a repeat of that performance.
Yeah that's something I should have considered might be an issue, so its not salt in any wounds. It's definitely a live & learn thing, and I'm okay with that, esp if it also helps other's in the future.
Luckily, spraying canned lacquer onto the front didn't have the same issues, since its much thinner and there isn't a force being applied via a brush, and it's also much thinner coats being used, but that may have changed as more coats were applied.
Ill probably try a test tomorrow with some paint coated in shellac before going to spray lacquer onto it.
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Hobbs, I would encourage you to rethink your plan if possible.
Lacquer, no matter how applied, is not a good idea over latex products. Bear in mind that to get material thin enough to exit a spray can, it must be considerably thinned down...with lacquer thinner in this case. Clear acrylic or even oil oil based polyurethane might be a safer bet. It would involve less "hot" solvents. Lacquer thinner is among the hottest.
Intentional or not, what's unfolding is a bit of a chemistry experiment. Here's the failure I alluded to earlier. I don't know how long it took to manifest, because they were stored out of sight, but if guessing probably months. From a forensic standpoint, it's evident that the strata of finishes were moving differentially. Specifically I suspect the DuraTex shrank underneath the lacquer, most noticeable around bolt heads.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219845)
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A fair point, for sure. I just applied the lacquer to the shellac coated paint this morning, i imagine it'll probably look fine, but considering your issues also took months to develop, the same will probably happen down the road regardless.
Ill probably look at getting clear acrylic then.
Im assuming it can be applied to lacquer as well for a clean transition between the paint and lacquer sections?
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Ill probably look at getting clear acrylic then.
Im assuming it can be applied to lacquer as well for a clean transition between the paint and lacquer sections?
I can't say with certainty. If each coat of differing material is viewed as a separate stratum within the "sandwich" many things come into the picture. Not the least of which are differential movement and adhesion between layers. So in some ways introducing a new element just increases the potential for failure. This is mostly conjecture based on my experience. It may be fine in the long run but, unfortunately, only the long run will tell the whole story.
I guess it kinda proves that test sampling of something new is good practice. I wish I had a pat answer for you, but I'd be lying if I said I did. It's just the way experiments unfold.
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I can't say with certainty. If each coat of differing material is viewed as a separate stratum within the "sandwich" many things come into the picture. Not the least of which are differential movement and adhesion between layers. So in some ways introducing a new element just increases the potential for failure. This is mostly conjecture based on my experience. It may be fine in the long run but, unfortunately, only the long run will tell the whole story.
I guess it kinda proves that test sampling of something new is good practice. I wish I had a pat answer for you, but I'd be lying if I said I did. It's just the way experiments unfold.
I did some searching online to see if acrylic can be applied onto lacquer, but it doesn't adhere well and will likely peel over time. But I did find that lacquer can be applied to polyurethane so long as a layer of shellac is used between them. But ill check out the results of my test in a couple hours. It went on really easily without any pulling or struggle, thankfully.
Guess I should have thought ahead & used black lacquer, instead of a standard latex spray paint to avoid unforseen incompatibilities.
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I checked on the sample and its looking pretty good. It's dry to the touch, but still needs some more drying time before it's fully hardened to see if any cracks or peeling forms.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219854&size=large)
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With my X-Statik project still ongoing, and the delays with the NQ drivers, this build has been pretty quiet since the last update.
That said, I got my 2nd cabinet ready for some edge touch-ups before it's time to seal the cabinet and get it ready for the clear coats. Pending the weather tomorrow, it should be an easy task.
Tho I'm considering swapping out the Sonicap in the tweeter circuit for Danny's Copper Caps or go with some Miflex copper foil caps instead. But with the thread no longer being a sticky, I'm not sure if they're still available, or if the Miflex are a suitable alternative, esp since I'm already going to be upgrading to foil inductors a Path Audio Resistors.
For the bass circuit, I plan to keep the Sonicap to save a little space, (and money) and paired with a Miflex bypass.
Just curious about peoples feedback/thoughts. :thumb:
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Man, if its not one thing with these, its another.. :duh:
Just finished the touch-ups, brought it inside to dry, but I guess I set it in a unstable position... Aaaaand it fell and got digned pretty bad in the bottom corner pretty bad... The image below is after using some filler to patch the cracks/dents
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222342&size=large)
Time to fix this one i guess... :roll:
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...
That stinks.
Hopefully it's easy enough to fill and patch without too much drama.
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:o
Sorry to see this has happened...
At least it appears to be fixable...
That was a huge fear I had whenever I was moving my X-MTMs around during their build. At about 45# each, something would have been a mess...
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Yeah, luckily it was a pretty easy fix. It's not 100% perfect, but its already looking passable. At least it didn't affect the veneer! :lol:
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:o
Sorry to see this has happened...
At least it appears to be fixable...
That was a huge fear I had whenever I was moving my X-MTMs around during their build. At about 45# each, something would have been a mess...
I'm actually getting pretty concerned about that with mine. Right now the braces provide really nice grab bars for moving them around, once the front baffles go on things will get tougher. I'm probably going to cut a shallow handhold into the bottom with a router to give myself a more secure handhold once those go on.
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I'm actually getting pretty concerned about that with mine. Right now the braces provide really nice grab bars for moving them around, once the front baffles go on things will get tougher. I'm probably going to cut a shallow handhold into the bottom with a router to give myself a more secure handhold once those go on.
I used the holes for the ports as hand holds. Even after I “cemented” them in they still worked well for that. The PL adhesive worked great for those.
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Got the damaged spot cleaned up, not perfect, but noticable without really looking.
I also coated the black portions in a few layers of shellac to protect the latex paint. So they're both be ready for their lacquer clear coats! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222676&size=large)
As mentioned in a previous post, i was considering going with Danny's Copper caps for them tweeter, circuit, but it looks like there aren't any left, so I decide to get a pair of Miflex copper caps instead. They measure less 0.5% off of the mark, and are perfectly matched, which is about as "perfect" as you can get! (Not to mention they're currently 25% off! :D )
It'll mean some extra burn in time, but considering the strong reviews of Miflex copper caps, I'm excited to see how these all come together, once the kits are finally ready to ship!
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As mentioned in a previous post, i was considering going with Danny's Copper caps for them tweeter, circuit, but it looks like there aren't any left, so I decide to get a pair of Miflex copper caps instead. They measure less 0.5% off of the mark, and are perfectly matched, which is about as "perfect" as you can get! (Not to mention they're currently 25% off! :D )
It'll mean some extra burn in time, but considering the strong reviews of Miflex copper caps, I'm excited to see how these all come together, once the kits are finally ready to ship!
I would try VCAP ODAM for the tweeter. They are probably the best cap out there.
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Dude, those are going to sound sooooo nice.
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They are really coming together nicely Hobbs. Love that red with the black!
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Thanks! I'm super happy with how they're coming along, esp now that I'm at the last few steps of clearcoat & finally assembly once the kits are ready to go. :P
They were a ton of work and if I were to do it again, there's definitely some things I would do differently/better.
Hopefully, I can have the cabinets finally done in the next couple weeks! :thumb:
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Hey you will forget all the work once you hear them. Those are looking sweet! Won't be long now. :thumb:
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I don’t think I e ever done a project without coming away with some things I’d do differently. :lol:
As Sonicjoy said I’m sure the listening will make you forget about that. I enjoy how nice the sound is from my X-static/Voce combo every day, the fact that I built them just adds a little extra satisfaction.
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For sure, DIY is an ongoing learning process.
Imo, an adventure is just as much about the journey as it is the destination.
And I have no doubts that these will fulfill that, just as my XLS have thus far! :thumb:
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Well said Hobbs! Totally agree.
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The Miflex caps for the tweeter circuits arrived today!
They're A LOT bigger and heavier than I expected... :o
Here's one next to a 12oz can of soda..
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222770&size=large)
HYPED! :thumb:
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That looks like something that belongs in a power substation... :o
You might want to consider a slight cabinet internal volume increase to accommodate that thing. :roll:
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You may also wish to invest in a third zip tie for that thing, or earthquake straps. That can't be light considering how heavy a "normal" cap is.
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You might want to mount that externally. :green:
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Oh yeah, it's insanely heavy, probably 4-5lbs eazy... lol
They came really well packed, each individually wrapped, in a box, then double wrapped in Fedex bubble packs.
These caps makes Dannys massive laminated iron inductors feel light.. :lol:
I'm not planning on changing the box volume tho. (Too much effort) tho If I was also getting copper caps for the woofer circuit, I'd be doing an external crossover assembly... But I'm happy just sticking with Sonicaps & a miflex bypass. :P
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Like I said earlier VCAP ODAM. They sound better that Mifex copper caps IMO, half the price, and small.
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I appreciate the suggestion, but I already had a desire to use copper caps on these for some time now, but wasn't sure if it was the direction I wanted to go yet. And seeing them on sale was enough reason to finally pull the trigger.
But I'll definitely consider them for a future build, thanks!
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Here's one next to a 12oz can of soda..
HYPED! :thumb:
just remember which one to drink and which one to install :wink:
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The Miflex caps for the tweeter circuits arrived today!
They're A LOT bigger and heavier than I expected... :o
Here's one next to a 12oz can of soda..
HYPED! :thumb:
:o
You’re planning to stick with internal crossovers with those things?! How much internal volume will the entire network take up? Gonna be like lifting mjolnir trying to move those things around.
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:o
You’re planning to stick with internal crossovers with those things?! How much internal volume will the entire network take up? Gonna be like lifting mjolnir trying to move those things around.
Yup! 8)
That cap is going to be the single largest unit in the entire circuit, the foin inductors are fairly tightly wound and sonicaps arent particularly large either. If I was going to use a massive copper cap on the woofer circuit, I would have to use an outboard crossover..
But I dont plan to move these around much once they're finished tho. But I'll definitely give them a weigh in once they're complete. :P
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Got my Path Audio resistors in today! :thumb:
They don't make the values i need, but they have values that can be doubled up to reach the values I need. So 4 of each value it is! :P
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223029&size=large)
Was hoping to be doing the final clear coats today, but I realized that I didnt have the canopy frame I need to set up a spray booth.
It wont arrive until Friday, sadly. :cry:
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Just remember to put them in series for summing their resistance. Unless you're paralleling them which lowers the resistance.
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Yup! They'll be running in series, so no worries there! :thumb:
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So you might have your NX Studios up and running this weekend?
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So you might have your NX Studios up and running this weekend?
I wish! Sadly, I still gotta wait for the woofers fo get back in stock to get them along with the rest of fhe kit.. :cry:
But, I am hoping I can at least get the cabinets 100% finished by next week! :green:
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I wish! Sadly, I still gotta wait for the woofers fo get back in stock to get them along with the rest of fhe kit.. :cry:
But, I am hoping I can at least get the cabinets 100% finished by next week! :green:
You are two woofers away from your jaw hitting the floor.
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More like: 2 woofers, 2 tweeters 6 caps, 2 foil inductors, 2 tube connectors, a sheet of norez, some wire, several coats of lacquer & sanding away :lol:
But yes, this project has come a long way over the last 6 months, im excited to finally get these beauties finished! :thumb:
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IME, the drain wire on the Path Audio resistors had absolutely no effect on the sound. I ended up just clipping mine off to make my crossover a little neater.
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I did the same with my Path Resistors; trimmed the wire shorter, folded it over and heat-shrink over the folded end to ensure it's protected.
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Yeah I was just planning to snip it off, but take the remainder and use electrical tape to keep it isolated & out of the way.
Just to confirm, the drain is the really long wire, correct?
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IME, the drain wire on the Path Audio resistors had absolutely no effect on the sound. I ended up just clipping mine off to make my crossover a little neater.
Did you find them to be better than the Mills resistors?
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Oh yeah.
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Oh yeah.
If I remember correctly, MLundy also picked up some Path resistors along with foil inductors as a future upgrade for his NX-Otica MTMs.
And Argoncat also used them in his Studios, which are a good chunk of the basis for my decision to use them, tho I can't justify the price/size of monster copper caps for the woofer circuit.. bypass caps will do me just fine. :P
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I guess I need to put in another order at Partsconnexion :D
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I swapped out the Mills resistors in my Studios with Path Audios and yea, these are the way to go. Between these and the VCAP I have on the tweeter circuit, the speakers seem to have a more holographic soundstage and more resolution than stock.
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I swapped out the Mills resistors in my Studios with Path Audios and yea, these are the way to go. Between these and the VCAP I have on the tweeter circuit, the speakers seem to have a more holographic soundstage and more resolution than stock.
Glad to hear! Im excited to hear the results once my kit comes in! :thumb:
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Finally time for some lacquer clear coats! :thumb:
Then some sanding, and more clear coats & more sanding.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223888&size=large)
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Stunning. That dyed veneer really pops!
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That really looks great. Love the red, outstanding work! :D
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That’s really beautiful work!
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Stunning! :thumb:
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Thanks, y'all! :thumb:
I'm pretty dang happy with them so far!
Probably gunna use another can or two of lacquer for each of these.
Cant wait for the woofers & rest of the kit to finally arrive!
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Hobbs,
I'll PM you my address and you can ship 'em on over! :lol:
Looking great!
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Thanks, y'all! :thumb:
I'm pretty dang happy with them so far!
Probably gunna use another can or two of lacquer for each of these.
Cant wait for the woofers & rest of the kit to finally arrive!
Dang, that’s right. Just a pretty piece of artwork for now...
:popcorn:
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Looking very nice. :thumb:
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Finally time for some lacquer clear coats! :thumb:
Then some sanding, and more clear coats & more sanding.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223888&size=large)
So nice Hobbs. I wish I had not bought the Elac Unifi 52 when you said it and put the coin into these. I think I might be letting the Elacs go. I am just time poor atm.
Nice work Hobbs.
SC
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Awesome!
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Thanks, y'all! Im super happy with them so far! Jut a couple more coats to go, but I'm currently out of town, so it'll have to wait for now. :P
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So let me get you my address for shipping! Ha!
Awesome! They look great!
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LOL Thanks! They're certainly not perfect, but at 3ft, you'd be hard pressed to find any flaws.
I'm currently out of state, but they need a tad more sanding and a couple more fine coats. I'm still trying to figure out how to best use my spray gun, but I think ive just about got it figured out. Some of my first sprays were a bit textured and still are, but ive definitely gotten a better feel for it.
Here's how they looked before I left for my trip.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224179&size=xlarge)
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Will the artist be signing those to acknowledge his work?
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Ha ha he better be singing them when he’s done. Some day they will get around. And see it.
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After showing Danny my over-sized Miflex cap, he recommended that I go with an external crossover, since it would take up too much airspace within the cabinet.
So I spent about 30 min this morning laying out some possible design ideas that sould work for something I can place bedside the speaker, or on the floor, as needed.
Here's what I think will work best within a roughly 8.5x10x6 inch box:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225822&size=large)
Internal space will be roughly 7x8.5x4.5 inches. I left out the resistors cuz they're small and easy to place, even with 4 of them.
(They also dont make/sell the exact values I need, so they'll be run in series pairs to match what's needed).
They'll probably just be black boxes, each with 6 female tube connectors & a removable panel once theyre all finished. And a couple sets of wires for desk or stand use as needed. :P
The real trick will be drilling another pair of holes in the cabinets for the second pair of tube connectors, without damaging the veneer or blowing out the inside of the MDF.. lol
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225822&size=large)
You trying to compensate for something with that Miflex cap? :lol:
I’m curious about the foil conductors you’re using there. What brand and who sells them?
Looking forward to seeing these finished and your impressions.
I’ll add that I ordered some Vcap ODAM’s for the tweeter to try in my Studios. Have used them in amps and they’re superb.
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You trying to compensate for something with that Miflex cap? :lol:
I’m curious about the foil conductors you’re using there. What brand and who sells them?
Looking forward to seeing these finished and your impressions.
I’ll add that I ordered some Vcap ODAM’s for the tweeter to try in my Studios. Have used them in amps and they’re superb.
LMAO, Nah they're honestly just A LOT bigger than I expected them to be... :lol:
But I wanted to take these as far as I "reasonbly" could afford, plus they were on sale, and had lots of great feedback from several others here.
Plus the foil inductors are going to be an available upgrade on the site fairly soon, and they were already part of the plan to push them that next step further. I'm excited to get these finished and have them.
I'm probably going to make the crossover boxes match the towers, tho probably using figured or curly maple, tho I'm planning ahead and going to use paper backed veneer this time.. (Raw, quilted maple, while beautiful, is not a good place for a noob like me to start... But I somehow managed... Lol
Red dyed & toned the same with a black top that can be removed for maintenance if needed. Theyll probably get finished in a satin or semi gloss.
I've seen a couple people recommend VCap ODAMs lately, but I'll probably save that for another project in the future.
The amount of copper in this box will be wild.. Probably 6-8 pounds per crossover? The tweeter cap alone is 3-4lb, easy.
It'll be interesting trying to design a mounting board for these like i did with my X-statik. Esp since they came out to be roughly 7"x8" when tightly packed like in the pic. Not to mention the cap being massive... It might end up as an L-shaped board that just fits around it. Or has a sort of "cradle" built into it... Hmmm
Once i get moved into my apartment this week, i can work on designing things again.. :P
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Another idea would be to make some custom speaker stands with the crossovers built-in.
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You trying to compensate for something with that Miflex cap? :lol:
I’m curious about the foil conductors you’re using there. What brand and who sells them?
Looking forward to seeing these finished and your impressions.
I’ll add that I ordered some Vcap ODAM’s for the tweeter to try in my Studios. Have used them in amps and they’re superb.
Hobbs I have such cross over envy happening right now. Not to mention they are going onto :lol: the NX studios. I just want those caps to look at all day. Sad I know but the drool Hobbs the drool..... :lol: :lol: :lol: Got to love a Miflex the size of an orange.
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Another idea would be to make some custom speaker stands with the crossovers built-in.
I would, but I've already got my dual 8" Servo sub stands. plus i need to be able to adjust the length of cables im using, depending on how/where i have them set up. (i.e desk or in the room)
Hobbs I have such cross over envy happening right now. Not to mention they are going onto :lol: the NX studios. I just want those caps to look at all day. Sad I know but the drool Hobbs the drool..... :lol: :lol: :lol: Got to love a Miflex the size of an orange.
LOL
Trust me, if Soniccraft sold the smaller 250V versions, that's the route I would have gone. Partsconnexion does sell them, but doesn't offer matched pairs.. (at least to my knowledge)
So 600V monster cap it is.. :P
But yeah, I totally understand.. its a whole lot of beautiful copper parts to oogle over~ 8)
I forgot to answer Tomy's question about the foil inductors,
They're mafe by Bridgeport Magnetics. Its the brand that Danny currently stocks for the NX line. We just got the foil inductor for the Studios in last week, abd will be an upgrade available on the site soon once we get out from under the backlog of current orders, and parts shortages that are really holding us back.
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Is that inductor upgrade a ‘must-have’? I just placed my order for the Studios today, and waffed on the upgrade. My sensibility says that in my untreated family room, I’d likely not even notice. But I don’t want this to haunt me! Is the upgrade strictly for the audiophile who might appreciate such minutia?
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Is that inductor upgrade a ‘must-have’? I just placed my order for the Studios today, and waffed on the upgrade. My sensibility says that in my untreated family room, I’d likely not even notice. But I don’t want this to haunt me! Is the upgrade strictly for the audiophile who might appreciate such minutia?
None of Danny's kits need an upgrade. His base kit is far superior to what you find in most commercial speakers. The upgrades are beneficial but how much you will realize depends on the capability of your electronics. If you have a budget level system you won't notice as much of an improvement as you would with a mid-fi system. High end systems give even better performance.
On the one hand, fully upgrading the crossover components will give you a speaker you will never outgrow no matter how good the rest of your system gets. On the other hand, if you start with the base crossover components then later on upgrade the rest of your system to a much higher level you can always build another pair of crossovers with better parts.
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Mike has it right.
My kit is wildly overkill, esp for my system as it stands currently, but I'll never have to worry about it being the weakest link in my system.
For anyone curious about the difference between the original NX studio Danny built vs the first production run by Jay/Captainhemo,
Here's a quick side-by-side comparison of Danny's build vs my own.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226363&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226364&size=large)
Danny said the differences in design dont make much difference to performance, but the current production runs should be a little more similar to the original design, mainly raising the tweeter and woofer about an inch or so it's further from a desk or console it may be sitting on.
I still haven't had a chance to purchase my own kit yet, but I have the parts I need set aside once we get caught up on the current backlog of orders as best we can. Gunna spend the weekend pre-packing a ton of orders and making invoices so that come Monday & Tuesday, We can get a good chunk of them out the door while we have 4 people in-house.
But I'll be sure to update you all once I get my kit and start assembling my crossover and planning out the building/veneering of it's box. :thumb:
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Mike has it right.
My kit is wildly overkill, esp for my system as it stands currently, but I'll never have to worry about it being the weakest link in my system.
For anyone curious about the difference between the original NX studio Danny built vs the first production run by Jay/Captainhemo,
Here's a quick side-by-side comparison of Danny's build vs my own.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226363&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226364&size=large)
Danny said the differences in design dont make much difference to performance, but the current production runs should be a little more similar to the original design, mainly raising the tweeter and woofer about an inch or so it's further from a desk or console it may be sitting on.
I still haven't had a chance to purchase my own kit yet, but I have the parts I need set aside once we get caught up on the current backlog of orders as best we can. Gunna spend the weekend pre-packing a ton of orders and making invoices so that come Monday & Tuesday, We can get a good chunk of them out the door while we have 4 people in-house.
But I'll be sure to update you all once I get my kit and start assembling my crossover and planning out the building/veneering of it's box. :thumb:
Yeah, I actually did both designs of the Studio's . When we donated that pair to Peter so a build could be done to present to Danny, he (Danny ), measured them and they measure fine, basically the same as thebaffles only he had cut.
After a number of folks asked aboiut it and most said they felt the higher tweeter/woofer looked better (guess my taste sucks !), we've done a n alteration and are now shipping, I guess youi could say, the MKII.
Tweeter/woofer have been rraised and we're adding roiundovers to all external edges of the grill frame. I"m still debating onadding a 7/32 wire pass through hole to the plate right below the tweeeter.... problem is if I put it in the center , there will be folks who want it on the side.... and the opposite applies as well. May just leave as with no wire pass through and folks drill one where they want it.
Will try and get some pics posted in the flat pack thread later today...
jay
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I'm still really happy with how mine looks and how it has turned out so far. Plus I dig how it looks, despite my own lack of skill and knowledge.
But I'm excited to see the changes you've made between the original and updated kits! :thumb:
Even if they are minor lol)
I'm more than ready to get back to work on it ASAP tho.. lmao
Still gotta drill a hole for the wires too lol
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So.... I had a most terrible "idea".... :icon_twisted:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226665&size=large)
BuT iF iT mEaSuReS ThE sAmE, iT wIlL sOuNd ThE sAmE !!1!
*cough cough* :rotflmao:
I went and found the cheapest available parts I could find on Parts express that will work for the NX studio crossover.
(I could have gone cheaper for a few parts like the iron inductor, main cap, and shunt resistor, but I'd be waiting a few more weeks to save like $15)
I did get a Dayton bypass cap, but I'm gunna wait to install it later.
I also snagged some super-cheap brass/nickel banana binding posts with an steel nut, and some 24-gauge zip-cord wire to act like your typical internal speaker wire..
Just having a little fun~
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Well that one sand cast resistor says audio grade, so you should be good! Don't be surprised if your boss calls you into his office for a talk tomorrow.
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It's shunting to ground so it's not really going to be the issue that the cheaper one is at the input.
Oh, dont worry, I've already told him my about cheesey plans.. :wink:
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It's shunting to ground so it's not really going to be the issue that the cheaper one is at the input.
Oh, dont worry, I've already told him my about cheesey plans.. :wink:
Love it Hobbs,
I can't help but chuckle at the thought of Danny saying " can you coming my office for a minute we need to discuss the cheese I've been seeing online" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
SC.
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Hobbs, I looked at my old crossover from a Klipsch center channel. I can get you 16.2 uF of capacitance. So then you can have a splash of cheesy yellow in your network. Maybe we can crowd source this and get you a Frankenstein crossover.
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Been a while, but things are finally moving again... :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228404&size=large)
Next will be to design a crossover board to mount everything onto, then build a box to go around it. :D
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Random internet guy posts a picture of his crossover:
Hobbs channeling his innder Crocodile Dundee
"That's not a crossover - THIS is a crossover"
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I'm still learning about such matters, but is the bypass cap still necessary when the primary cap is of equal or greater quality? I am of course referring to that beer can in your network. When I did my Otica build, I opted to upgrade the mid circuit to soniccaps, which had a small bypass cap on the base kit. Did I even need to include that tiny cap?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228404&size=large)
I guess everything is bigger in Texas... :green:
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Talk about your 800lb Gorilla :icon_twisted:
That is hella nice.
Is is nice that you get to work at a DIY high-end audiophile speaker manufacture? Every time Danny comes up with something new and exciting the employees be like yes ill take that. lol. And all those parts to check out lust over.
Good on you Hobbs.
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Swooping in with a thread-jacking, now its all about who's got the most out there crossover.
Contender #1 - Kawero! Vivace Supreme crossover with the best silver/gold/oil Mundorf capacitors and VertexAQ structural acoustic absorption techniques together with VertexAQ radar absorbing material to reduce Electromagnetic Interference. And just for good measure Panzerholz plywood for the mounting structure. 100% maniac.
(https://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/speakers/vivace/vivace-components__340.jpg)
Contender #2 - BØRRESEN crossovers using foil inductors (na na na na GR got there first) but unique to my knowledge in speaker crossover application surface mount plastic film caps. The black and silver boxes soldered to PCB beside the front inductor. These eliminate the inductance of the lead wires but are a BITCH to solder, over heat just a little bit and the metalized plastic layers melt and cap goes open or suffers wild value changes.
(https://www.borresen-acoustics.com/images/2021/02/09/borresen_delefilter.jpg)
Contender #3 - Living Voice's Auditorium range of speakers use exactly the same driver set and box and as you go up the range what changes is better and better crossover parts. This tops out at the Auditorium OBX-RW3 where the parts in the crossover have gotten so big they require their own enclosure about 50% the size of the speaker it serves.
(https://www.livingvoice.co.uk/assets/images-auditorium/900/obx-rw3-090-900.jpg)
And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Talk about your 800lb Gorilla :icon_twisted:
That is hella nice.
Is is nice that you get to work at a DIY high-end audiophile speaker manufacture? Every time Danny comes up with something new and exciting the employees be like yes ill take that. lol. And all those parts to check out lust over.
Good on you Hobbs.
To some extent? But it's actually been a learning experience more than anything. Getting to play with high end hardware, amps, DACs, cables etc. is fun, but it helps me understand the things Danny, Ron and others talk about beyond just a conceptual level. I can see how changing cables on a DAC alone can help/hurt, how tubes affect the sound/tone. Differences between OB/sealed/horn speakers.
There are times when Danny is testing a speaker and I'm starting to pick out when a tweeter or woofer sounds odd.
And all that knowledge helps me relay that information back to customers based on my experience.
I've also had these parts set aside for probably close to 5-6 weeks now waiting for Danny to tally up my total since I was piece-mealing it together rather than just getting a standard kit, so there's quite a few other kits that got foil inductors long before I did. lol
That said I did also get one of the early samples of the new 10W chip amps, just need to get a battery and charger to power it. We've had one of them playing in-house for a few days now and it honestly sounds fantastic, incredibly clean and detailed with excellent bass control. It's one of the few things Danny has said are one of the best sounding devices, esp for "right out of the box." I'll be pairing it with My Studios for sure.
Not quite sure on the release date for those yet, but I believe we just gave to go ahead for making the remaining models.. should be about 25-30 units available once we're ready to release them.
I'm still learning about such matters, but is the bypass cap still necessary when the primary cap is of equal or greater quality? I am of course referring to that beer can in your network. When I did my Otica build, I opted to upgrade the mid circuit to soniccaps, which had a small bypass cap on the base kit. Did I even need to include that tiny cap?
The bypass cap is intended to act like a siphon, allowing the larger cap to discharge much faster. By design, most copper caps are fairly slow to discharge due to the limitations of the materials, and without a bypass, it will tend to smear the details. And keeping the brands/type the same allows them to keep their tonal quality while also increasing the speed of the cap.
Sonicaps are really fast discharging caps, but adding a copper bypass imparts the tonality of a copper cap, leading to a more warm/rich tone.
The real drawback tho, is the amount of burn-in they require, often 400+ hrs before they settle into their final sound. When they're not ready, they often sound really hard, if not harsh.. Most of the dramatic changes will occur within the first week, with them slowly opening up and relaxing the remaining time.
According to some, as you feed them higher quality music or give them a cleaner signal from a bette qualityr front-end, the more they will continue to open up.
As for your bypass caps, yes. Both the base model and upgraded model have bypass caps included in that circuit, as it still helps them to discharge faster than they would on their own, esp once you start getting into those really large values. On smaller values like say 1-7uF its not going to be as necessary, unless there is a tonality you want them to have ontop of their speed.
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@Hobbsmeerkat, I have Sonicaps upgrade in my Mini's, would a copper bypass work to get a more warm/rich tone?
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I guess everything is bigger in Texas... :green:
:thumb: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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To some extent? But it's actually been a learning experience more than anything. Getting to play with high end hardware, amps, DACs, cables etc. is fun, but it helps me understand the things Danny, Ron and others talk about beyond just a conceptual level. I can see how changing cables on a DAC alone can help/hurt, how tubes affect the sound/tone. Differences between OB/sealed/horn speakers.
There are times when Danny is testing a speaker and I'm starting to pick out when a tweeter or woofer sounds odd.
And all that knowledge helps me relay that information back to customers based on my experience.
I've also had these parts set aside for probably close to 5-6 weeks now waiting for Danny to tally up my total since I was piece-mealing it together rather than just getting a standard kit, so there's quite a few other kits that got foil inductors long before I did. lol
That said I did also get one of the early samples of the new 10W chip amps, just need to get a battery and charger to power it. We've had one of them playing in-house for a few days now and it honestly sounds fantastic, incredibly clean and detailed with excellent bass control. It's one of the few things Danny has said are one of the best sounding devices, esp for "right out of the box." I'll be pairing it with My Studios for sure.
Not quite sure on the release date for those yet, but I believe we just gave to go ahead for making the remaining models.. should be about 25-30 units available once we're ready to release them.
The bypass cap is intended to act like a siphon, allowing the larger cap to discharge much faster. By design, most copper caps are fairly slow to discharge due to the limitations of the materials, and without a bypass, it will tend to smear the details. And keeping the brands/type the same allows them to keep their tonal quality while also increasing the speed of the cap.
Sonicaps are really fast discharging caps, but adding a copper bypass imparts the tonality of a copper cap, leading to a more warm/rich tone.
The real drawback tho, is the amount of burn-in they require, often 400+ hrs before they settle into their final sound. When they're not ready, they often sound really hard, if not harsh.. Most of the dramatic changes will occur within the first week, with them slowly opening up and relaxing the remaining time.
According to some, as you feed them higher quality music or give them a cleaner signal from a bette qualityr front-end, the more they will continue to open up.
As for your bypass caps, yes. Both the base model and upgraded model have bypass caps included in that circuit, as it still helps them to discharge faster than they would on their own, esp once you start getting into those really large values. On smaller values like say 1-7uF its not going to be as necessary, unless there is a tonality you want them to have ontop of their speed.
Hi Hobbs,
Hard work, Learning alot and having fun. Sounds like the dream job for an audiophile. I have learnt a lot from your posts and this was a ripper. When do we get to see your video's too! Danny is not making enough being so busy. Glad to see your NX studio is coming together.
Take care
SC
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@Hobbsmeerkat, I have Sonicaps upgrade in my Mini's, would a copper bypass work to get a more warm/rich tone?
Theoretically, but I don't think it's really a practical upgrade for the Mini, esp since they're $20 a piece. The Mini is also a more entry level speaker, and I'm not sure if there will be much benefit, esp if you have the Erse cap with sonicap bypass. If you have the full $50 sonicap upgrade and tube connectors, then I would probably consider it.
Much like we dont offer them as upgrades for any other speakers, unless specifically asked for, which to my knowledge, has only happened once, namely with a Sony SS-CS5 a week or so ago.
That said, it would make you the only person with such a kit, just be ready for a 2-ish weeks straight worth of burn-in. :P
They'll definitely be a bit harsh until they finally start to relax a bit.
Hi Hobbs,
Hard work, Learning alot and having fun. Sounds like the dream job for an audiophile. I have learnt a lot from your posts and this was a ripper. When do we get to see your video's too! Danny is not making enough being so busy. Glad to see your NX studio is coming together.
Take care
SC
For sure! It's actually nice not having to spend a ton of money to get the hands-on and practical experience, to better understand what is it i'm doing, and how I can apply that information, and explain it as best I can.
I don't really wanna be in videos... :lol:
I would be okay doing a stream with Ron & Danny maybe?
I'm better suited to a more text-based format, where I have time to formulate my thoughts.. Plus I don't like hearing my own voice.
He actually shot several this past week. And after dinner tonight, he was gunna work on finishing the X-Bravo videos as well as something for some Paradigm & Wharfdale towers I believe.
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@Hobbsmeerkat, You do have the dream job.
I do have the $50 upgrade. I dont have the tube connectors yet, I'm going straight from crossover to the amp output connectors. And I will go for the speaker wire kit down the road also. Now that I have the DAC in the system I can hear stuff i haven't been hearing. Every day the system seems to sound better. The bass seems a lot more full now. I don't mind the cost, I just want the best I can get because this is going to be my main system for several months or years. I do have an upgrade path so I will improving the system as time goes on.
Anyway thank you and good luck on your project.
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@Hobbsmeerkat, You do have the dream job.
I do have the $50 upgrade. I dont have the tube connectors yet, I'm going straight from crossover to the amp output connectors. And I will go for the speaker wire kit down the road also. Now that I have the DAC in the system I can hear stuff i haven't been hearing. Every day the system seems to sound better. The bass seems a lot more full now. I don't mind the cost, I just want the best I can get because this is going to be my main system for several months or years. I do have an upgrade path so I will improving the system as time goes on.
Anyway thank you and good luck on your project.
Yeah, then I would say it's probably worth the leap as your system grows!
Thanks! I actually just finished printing my crossover boards today and assembled both of them! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228504&size=large)
They weigh a little over 7lbs each...
Sadly tho, I snapped one of the leads of my Path Resistors when the main inductor tipped over... :duh: So I gotta wait for a replacement...
At least in the meantime I can start planning out the boxes to put them in.. :thumb:
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@Hobbsmeerkat, You do have the dream job.
And I will go for the speaker wire kit down the road also.
I built the GR 16 wire speaker cable this spring and it was like lifting a veil from the speakers. It just makes everything better.
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They weigh a little over 7lbs each...
dude.. you know how to fit right in here in Texas! :icon_lol:
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Small update!
First external crossover board is complete! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229657&size=large)
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That is a thing of beauty!
Coming in to the copper cap conversation late, do you know if the current level affects the burn in time? I am wondering if I need it really cranked for 2 weeks or if I can just put on something softer.
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That is a thing of beauty!
Coming in to the copper cap conversation late, do you know if the current level affects the burn in time? I am wondering if I need it really cranked for 2 weeks or if I can just put on something softer.
Not really, it just needs a signal going through them. I usually keep the speakers running all day on the weekends at a low level for a few weeks. Copper caps don’t start opening up until well past 100hrs. The initial break in of the speaker will require a moderate volume level though for the first 50hrs to get the drivers relaxed.
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Hobbsmeerkat that is very well done. BTW when I posted the other over the top crossovers on this thread's previous page it was not apparent just how big those coils & caps are. Awhile later Danny held them up in a GR YouTube video and I had a :cyclops: moment, followed by :drool:. I suggest for the next picture show this bad boy next to something like a woofer or the NX-Studio it will serve to better show the scale.
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Hobbs, I got my Path Audio resisters you recommended yesterday and I thought they were beefy... then I saw that cap.... now that is what I call beefy. lol.
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Hobbs that is still the 800lb gorilla of a crossover. And I like the way it looks and would want to showcase it to be seen.
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Small update!
First external crossover board is complete! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229657&size=large)
Looks like a BIG update to me lol
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Hobbs that is still the 800lb gorilla of a crossover. And I like the way it looks and would want to showcase it to be seen.
I was originally gunna build boxes for them, but I scrapped that idea and went with this instead. My wiring/soldering skills aren't the best, but I'm happy with them, considering
I just finished the 2nd one last night to boot!
Hobbsmeerkat that is very well done. BTW when I posted the other over the top crossovers on this thread's previous page it was not apparent just how big those coils & caps are. Awhile later Danny held them up in a GR YouTube video and I had a :cyclops: moment, followed by :drool:. I suggest for the next picture show this bad boy next to something like a woofer or the NX-Studio it will serve to better show the scale.
I knew they were going to be big, but I didn't expect soup can size caps. I would recommend anyone else go with the 250V KPCU03 versions since they're about 1/2 the size of these monsters.. lol
I think they weigh about 8.8lbs now.. or a gallon of milk/water.
Sure, here ya go!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229808&size=large)
Next is to finish up the changes to the cabinet.
Namely, drilling another set of holes for the tube connectors, holes for the tweeter wire, and a few more clear coats and lots of wet sanding.
Then finally installing No Rez, wires and the drivers.
Getting close! :green:
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Those look amazing! :thumb:
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Those look amazing!!!!!!!
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I was originally gunna build boxes for them, but I scrapped that idea and went with this instead. My wiring/soldering skills aren't the best, but I'm happy with them, considering
I just finished the 2nd one last night to boot!
I knew they were going to be big, but I didn't expect soup can size caps. I would recommend anyone else go with the 250V KPCU03 versions since they're about 1/2 the size of these monsters.. lol
I think they weigh about 8.8lbs now.. or a gallon of milk/water.
Sure, here ya go!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229808&size=large)
Next is to finish up the changes to the cabinet.
Namely, drilling another set of holes for the tube connectors, holes for the tweeter wire, and a few more clear coats and lots of wet sanding.
Then finally installing No Rez, wires and the drivers.
Getting close! :green:
Where can I buy some Liter size Soda Caps? :lol: All jokes aside, your project is coming along nicely. Just let me know, when you want me to build you a awning for those puppies, to keep them safe from the elements!
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They're 99% finished! :D
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230094&size=xlarge)
I just need to paint the screws for the woofers, and make some cables to connect them to the external crossovers. (on floor)
It's been a long journey and a learning process for sure!
But I'm excited to finally be getting these babies finished! :thumb:
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Looks incredible Hobbs! You must be absolutely thrilled and super excited to get them fired up. Can't wait to hear your listening impressions!
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September 22. 2021 - Danny publishes video Biamp and Biwiring! We NEED to TALK! https://youtu.be/908BWw1Bx4U (https://youtu.be/908BWw1Bx4U) on why you're a big dummy if you have bi-amp terminals on your speaker.
September 23. 2021 - Hobbs posts NX-Studio build demonstrating (due to crossover that would consume 78% of speaker's interior volume) when you must have bi-amp terminals on your speaker.
Maybe, just maybe, Danny will forgive you if all connectors are Tube Connectors.
Kidding aside, this over the top NX-Studio with Servo-sub stand is a perfect example of the point Danny makes in the second half of the Biamp and Biwiring! We NEED to TALK! video that where biamping really delivers in home HiFi is the subwoofer to main speaker handoff.
GR Research should name this NX-Studio + sub stand configuration and market it as a small footprint big sound solution for when the other NXs would dominate a room's acoustics or aesthetics.
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September 22. 2021 - Danny publishes video Biamp and Biwiring! We NEED to TALK! https://youtu.be/908BWw1Bx4U (https://youtu.be/908BWw1Bx4U) on why you're a big dummy if you have bi-amp terminals on your speaker.
September 23. 2021 - Hobbs posts NX-Studio build demonstrating (due to crossover that would consume 78% of speaker's interior volume) when you must have bi-amp terminals on your speaker.
Maybe, just maybe, Danny will forgive you if all connectors are Tube Connectors.
Kidding aside, this over the top NX-Studio with Servo-sub stand is a perfect example of the point Danny makes in the second half of the Biamp and Biwiring! We NEED to TALK! video that where biamping really delivers in home HiFi is the subwoofer to main speaker handoff.
GR Research should name this NX-Studio + sub stand configuration and market it as a small footprint big sound solution for when the other NXs would dominate a room's acoustics or aesthetics.
Excuse you, it's bi-wiring AND bi-amping :wink:
Oh don't worry, this whole setup uses a whopping 5 sets of tube connectors. 3 for the crossovers and 2 sets for the speakers...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230132)
I could have made it 3 sets, but I wanted the ability to swap the lengths in the future as needed. Plus I can test out different crossovers which I plan to do with my "el-cheepo" pair that are 5% roughly the cost of my "Overkill" crossover... lol
Small gauge wire, steel banana plugs, tiny 22 gauge zipcord...
All the things i shouldn't do 8)
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They are officially finished and playing! 8)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230142&size=large)
Now to let them burn in. :thumb:
(They already beat out the N-3s beside them.)
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Burn in is complete! :thumb:
They currently have a little over 500 hours on them.
So I brought them over to see how they sound on Danny's system, as well as how they compare to his original models..
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231020&size=large)
We listened to them for almost 2 hours throwing everything at them, and we're both really impressed with how they sound.
Danny got goosebumps multiple times and was blown away by how well they sounded, and how clean and natural everything felt.
Everything just sounded incredibly rich and organic without losing any detail. It's just too easy to just get lost in the music.
Danny says they're the closest he's ever heard a mini monitor directly competing with the NX-Otica and NX-Treme.
I still haven't had a chance to listen to both versions in a direct A/B comparison yet but so far, I'm incredibly happy with how they sound, they hit every mark I set out for them.
I've already told Ron he has my blessing to borrow them, and he told me I wouldn't be getting them back. lol
If I were to do it over again, there are definitely some things I would change to save some money and keep the crossover inside the speaker..
But I dont regret a single thing. :green:
Ill post another update once I've had a chance to properly compare them.
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What? No maple stands with thick brass feet for the crossovers? Surely you can do more than just set them on the carpet. :lol: :thumb:
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Ill post another update once I've had a chance to properly compare them.
Looking forward to this. For me, swapping out the Sonicap/Miflex on the tweeter circuit for a VCAP ODAM /Duelund JDM silver foil bypass significantly improved this speaker. All while keeping the physical cap size small so it doesn’t mess with the cabinet volume.
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What? No maple stands with thick brass feet for the crossovers? Surely you can do more than just set them on the carpet. :lol: :thumb:
I do have some small stands for them but that's just another thing I would need to carry around.. So I left them at home... :lol:
Looking forward to this. For me, swapping out the Sonicap/Miflex on the tweeter circuit for a VCAP ODAM /Duelund JDM silver foil bypass significantly improved this speaker. All while keeping the physical cap size small so it doesn’t mess with the cabinet volume.
It would be interesting to see how mine compare to yours as well.
The intention for mine were to make it a more relaxed tone, while still offering plenty of detail and clarity without being overly analytical.
And that's been my only concern about the VCap+Deulund bypass upgrade.
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I can’t believe the journey is over
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Will you be posting a parts list of your upgraded parts compared to the standard kits or was it really only that wine barrel of a copper cap and the path resistors?
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Will you be posting a parts list of your upgraded parts compared to the standard kits or was it really only that wine barrel of a copper cap and the path resistors?
It was essentially as follows:
Foil inductor upgrade
600V KPCU01 Miflex cap & 0.1uF Miflex bypass
Path Audio resistors
Miflex 0.1uF cap bypassing the cap in the woofer circuit,
The only thing stock about them is the sonicap in the woofer circuit.
I didn't really do anything different with the crossover or cabinet other than making it so I can change the length of the wires and swap out the crossover.
If i were to do it again, i would go with the smaller 250V KPCU03 version thats roughly half the size & a single path resistor that is "close enough" rather than doubling up half values to get the exact value so I could still fit it inside the cabinet.
Oh an probably use paper backed veneer instead of RAW veneer.. lol
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It would be interesting to see how mine compare to yours as well.
The intention for mine were to make it a more relaxed tone, while still offering plenty of detail and clarity without being overly analytical.
And that's been my only concern about the VCap+Deulund bypass upgrade.
Nothing to be concerned about. The best way I can describe it is natural realism. A violin sounds like an actual violin in the room.
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Danny says they're the closest he's ever heard a mini monitor directly competing with the NX-Otica and NX-Treme.
That's quite a statement! I'd love to hear those speakers one day.
Re: the ODAM cap - I switched from Miflex to ODAM caps in my BA3 amp because the Miflex melted because the amp is so damn hot. The ODAM caps are very neutral, transparent and dynamic. Very nice! But they were also missing a bit of soul in the music, IMO. So I bypassed them with copper foil Duelunds and the magic is back.
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Hobbs, they look awesome man! Wish I could hear them!
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Hobbs, they look awesome man! Wish I could hear them!
Thanks! I'm super happy with them!
If you ever make your way thru, you're more than welcome to stop by and ill bring them to the shop
Nothing to be concerned about. The best way I can describe it is natural realism. A violin sounds like an actual violin in the room.
Good to know.
In the future I may build a 3rd pair of crossovers with the Vcap/Duelund/Path combo since I can easily swap them out.
(The 2nd pair of crossovers are cheap $25 crossovers using the cheapest parts I could find on Parts Express still need to finish assembling them)
And Maybe a 4th pair with the stock crossover parts.
But that's for the future, plus were still waiting on more tube connectors.. and I would need at least one set for each of them. :P
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Re: the ODAM cap - I switched from Miflex to ODAM caps in my BA3 amp because the Miflex melted because the amp is so damn hot. The ODAM caps are very neutral, transparent and dynamic. Very nice! But they were also missing a bit of soul in the music, IMO. So I bypassed them with copper foil Duelunds and the magic is back.
Yes the Duelunds add a texture you sort of feel. The musical “vibe” is palpable.
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It was essentially as follows:
Foil inductor upgrade
600V KPCU01 Miflex cap & 0.1uF Miflex bypass
Path Audio resistors
Miflex 0.1uF cap bypassing the cap in the woofer circuit,
The only thing stock about them is the sonicap in the woofer circuit.
I didn't really do anything different with the crossover or cabinet other than making it so I can change the length of the wires and swap out the crossover.
If i were to do it again, i would go with the smaller 250V KPCU03 version thats roughly half the size & a single path resistor that is "close enough" rather than doubling up half values to get the exact value so I could still fit it inside the cabinet.
Oh an probably use paper backed veneer instead of RAW veneer.. lol
Something to be careful about when using paper backed veneer is that the veneer itself is very thin. Usually about 0.010" where the raw wood veneer is more like 0.045" thick. If you end up with a minor imperfection, you can likely sand it out of raw wood veneer but not on paper backed veneer. Each type of veneer has it pros and cons. Neither is perfect.
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His pair is the best sounding stand mounted speakers that I have ever heard.
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Congratulations Hobbs, you'll enjoy your maxed out NX-Studios for years.
Suggestion to Danny & Hobbs. This set with external crossovers is the perfect opportunity to demonstrate the effects of Good, Better, Best crossover parts. Hobbs has built the Best version. I expect know the basic kit parts are Good. Something in between as a Better level. I would love to see GR demo this at 2022 LSAF and/or Ron could do a video on New Record Day YouTube channel discussing the quality differences heard as parts get better and better.
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Yes the Duelunds add a texture you sort of feel. The musical “vibe” is palpable.
I'd say there's a trade off. In favor of the ODAM/Dueland combo (although I use copper foil instead of silver foil Duelund in my setup), there's absolutely a better view into the recording. Acoustic space in particular is just incredible.
On the other hand, the Miflex caps are less insanely resolving, but are much more beautiful and soulful. Which I also love. So, IMO, there's a tradeoff and whichever one you prefer is fine, as they are both great.
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His pair is the best sounding stand mounted speakers that I have ever heard.
Danny, try upgrading your NX-Treme crossovers. :D
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Congratulations Hobbs, you'll enjoy your maxed out NX-Studios for years.
Suggestion to Danny & Hobbs. This set with external crossovers is the perfect opportunity to demonstrate the effects of Good, Better, Best crossover parts. Hobbs has built the Best version. I expect know the basic kit parts are Good. Something in between as a Better level. I would love to see GR demo this at 2022 LSAF and/or Ron could do a video on New Record Day YouTube channel discussing the quality differences heard as parts get better and better.
Thanks! That was my plan! and having heard them in a couple different places now I'm really happy with them.
I've already told Ron that he has my permission to borrow them at any time.
and I definitely plan to build out a couple different crossovers for them. Starting with the el cheap-o crossovers.
I do plan to build a pair of stock crossovers in the near future as well, though they will need 400 hours to sound their best.
And I'll probably do a VCap/Duelund combo as well sometime later.
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Danny, try upgrading your NX-Treme crossovers. :D
NX-Otica comes first since they still have the base level crossover and the original BG Neo3 tweeter.
I'm Curious what he ends up doing with them.
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NX-Otica comes first since they still have the base level crossover and the original BG Neo3 tweeter.
I'm Curious what he ends up doing with them.
Going off what I experienced with the fact that I did the same thing with my NX-Otica crossover that I did with my Studios, you are in for a treat.
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NX-Otica comes first since they still have the base level crossover and the original BG Neo3 tweeter.
I'm Curious what he ends up doing with them.
What would a “better” crossover look like on the oticas? Something above and beyond the listed options?
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What would a “better” crossover look like on the oticas? Something above and beyond the listed options?
I mean at this point most anything would be an upgrade. Since its got none of the upgrades currently except Mills resistors. :P
But IMO, using Miflex copper caps and Path Audio resistors for the tweeter, bypassing the sonicap & cap bundle in the mids with a miflex bypass caps, as well as foil inductors for the mids and tweeter, would make them really something special.
As for the lower woofers? Maybe just the bypass the main cap, but it's low enough I think its likely fine as is with just a basic sonicap bypass.
Beyond that, it's hard to say.
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It's been quite a while since I revived this thread, and they've been serving me well, every bit as beautiful and rich as they've been since the start!
However, I've finally started acquiring some parts, so I can build the 3rd crossover and do some direct comparisons between the V-CAP ODAMs & the Miflex!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242725)
The parts are as follows:
Duelund CAST Graphite resistors
V-Cap ODAM + Duelund JDM 0.01uF Silver bypass (Tweeter)
Sonicap + VCap ODAM 0.1uF bypass (woofer)
Foil Inductors.
Needless to say, I'm quite excited! :thumb:
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This is exactly my setup except I have the Path Audio resistors. The Duelund bypass caps make it really great IMO.
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Hobbs, you and I spoke a while back about the V-cap on tweeters as I've heard more than one person using the vcap odam with deudland silver bypass. Needless to say I'm interested to hear your thoughts on their performance. :popcorn:
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Hell Yes!
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Hobbs,
I wanted to reach out and thank you, for building various crossovers for the Studio's. I also enjoy experiementing to push the envlope further with R&D on anything I do. Huge thumbs up :thumb:
I have no doubt Danny appreciates your efforts too. After all it's for the love of music right?
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I ended up building a new set of crossovers for my Studios, mostly just to hear what the Jantzen Silver Z cap is like. The answer is really good.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242874)
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Hobbs,
I wanted to reach out and thank you, for building various crossovers for the Studio's. I also enjoy experiementing to push the envlope further with R&D on anything I do. Huge thumbs up :thumb:
I have no doubt Danny appreciates your efforts too. After all it's for the love of music right?
The mod's, I made on Studio's with the acoustic panel's up top on the ramp, have me, very pleased with the result's. I'll say this, I won't be putting the NoRez back ontop of the ramp. My objective is always about the sound, regardless of the appearances. In this case, the sound and the appearance has reached my objective. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242873)
What’s the material used for your acoustic panel on the ramp/sides/tweeter? Looks nice
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What’s the material used for your acoustic panel on the ramp/sides/tweeter? Looks nice
P.M. me, and I'll be more than happy to provide the details.
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.
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My apologies Hobbs,
I should have started another thread instead of chimming in on another topic.
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No worries!
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Finally got all of the parts and the layout has been finalized! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243229)
Now to design the boards to put them all on. :wink:
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Finally got all of the parts and the layout has been finalized! :thumb:
:popcorn:
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Finally got all of the parts and the layout has been finalized! :thumb:
Now to design the boards to put them all on. :wink:
Definitely interested in your experience with these caps compared to the Miflex stuff. My guess is you will like these better on certain music and maybe like the Miflex better on other music.
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If anyone is interested in trying out Vcap ODAMs for yourself, I have some for sale in the Accessories section here on AC.
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Crossovers are assembled!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243404&size=large)
Next steps is to have some MDF boards cut so i can mount the crossovers to them like i did with the Miflex crossovers.
Then I'll finish wiring them up and get them burning in :thumb:
Only thing I don't like about the Duelund JDM caps is that they have the leads on the same side and the only way to avoid shorting the leads on the metal cylinder was to cover part of the VCap in electrical tape.
The smaller VCap bypass on the woofer actually has a clear plastic film over it, but the Sonicap isn't made of metal.
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Hobbs. What’s a best practice for choosing values on bypass caps.
I have always just used 0.1 values in the past. I’m see you chose 0.01 on the tweeter and 0.1 for the woofer. I’m curious how you chose those values.
Thanks for sharing some knowledge.
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Hobbs. What’s a best practice for choosing values on bypass caps.
I have always just used 0.1 values in the past. I’m see you chose 0.01 on the tweeter and 0.1 for the woofer. I’m curious how you chose those values.
Thanks for sharing some knowledge.
Normally i stick to 0.1uF, but in this case, the JDM silver foil caps only come in 0.01uF 0.022uF & 0.047uF. Silver is also known for being "bright" if overused, so keeping it small is a good option in this case. Though, if paired with a "darker" sounding cap like the Jupiter copper caps, it can help to balance out the tone, especially up top.
If i had stuck to copper foil bypass caps, I would have used 0.1uF since it's tonal influence tends to be more smooth/lush.
With large caps (30uF+) most often used in the mid or bass circuit, you want to stick to values that are 1/100th of the main cap to avoid phase shift in audible ranges. So if you have a 75uF cap in the mids a 0.68uF bypass is about as big as you want to go.
A 100uF cap can be bypassed with up to 1uF.
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Crossovers are assembled!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243404&size=large)
Next steps is to have some MDF boards cut so i can mount the crossovers to them like i did with the Miflex crossovers.
Then I'll finish wiring them up and get them burning in :thumb:
Only thing I don't like about the Duelund JDM caps is that they have the leads on the same side and the only way to avoid shorting the leads on the metal cylinder was to cover part of the VCap in electrical tape.
The smaller VCap bypass on the woofer actually has a clear plastic film over it, but the Sonicap isn't made of metal.
Nice work on that. Those caps will need at least 100hrs to open up enough to be listenable.
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I plan to give them at least 400 hrs, but ill be sure to check in on their progress from start to finish. :thumb:
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Thats nice, i like that.
I have Sonicaps with Miflex bypass. I was thinking maybe add 1 ODM Vcap and 1 Duelund JDM to my Miflex for a blend.
I looked for those resistors but I think they are sold out and they were discontinued.
Anyway, thanks and keep us updated.
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I found the resistors on partsconnexion. they are discontinued, but they were still available at a decent price. They do have a newer version which is black, but im not sure what the differences are, plus they were 2x the price, even on sale.
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BTW Hobbs, I can’t tell from the picture, but make sure the leads of the bypass cap are not touching the case of the vcap because it’s conductive.
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BTW Hobbs, I can’t tell from the picture, but make sure the leads of the bypass cap are not touching the case of the vcap because it’s conductive.
I mentioned it in the post. I used electrical tape to separate the V-caps from the bypass.
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I have both crossovers 98% finished, I just need to drill some holes for screws, that said, they are 100% usable and they are currently burning in. :thumb:
My system is in a bit of chaos as I need to have my pre-amp serviced, so I'm currently just using my Sprout 100, and even fresh, they sound really good.
I've got 3 weeks of burn-in ahead of me, so I'll hold off on any judgment for the time being.
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I have both crossovers 98% finished, I just need to drill some holes for screws, that said, they are 100% usable and they are currently burning in. :thumb:
My system is in a bit of chaos as I need to have my pre-amp serviced, so I'm currently just using my Sprout 100, and even fresh, they sound really good.
I've got 3 weeks of burn-in ahead of me, so I'll hold off on any judgment for the time being.
Updates of the vcap odam vs miflex? Surely it's plenty of hours now
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They've got about 500+ hours on them, but my system has been pulled apart so I'm running everything on the Sprout 100, so im holding off on judgement for a little longer, plus I'm out of state visiting with familyfor a few days.
Once I get back home, I'll put my normal system back together and start doing my comparison of the crossovers.
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... plus I'm out of state visiting with family for a few days.
What??!! How will GR Research get any work done this week without you?
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What??!! How will GR Research get any work done this week without you?
He was missed.
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I'm back as of today. :D
I put another 125-ish hours on the crossovers while I was away, so they've got about 650 hours on them now.
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Vcap odam with dueland silver bypass is an incredible combo. Far beats the miflex imho.
Vcap odam and dueland pure silver bypass for tweeter on my nx otica and big mid cap bundle for the mids with 0.1 vcap odam and then added the 0.01 pure silver dueland silver bypass via alligator clips to just try and was like WOW guess I have to buy more of these!
Why did you pick those resistors over the path audio? The path audio have doubled in price recently but still at $33/ea they are incredible.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245378)
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It’s interesting that you are using 2 bypass caps. I don’t recall anyone doing that before. Coincidentally I recently picked up a pair of ODAM caps for my Super 7 tweeters. I was going to replace the Miflex bypasses but I just added them by wrapping the leads around the Sonicap leads to help burn them in a little.
The combo sounded great. Eventually I took out the Miflex and soldered in the ODAMs. Now I know I haven’t put a lot of hours on them but it felt like a step back. Like something was missing. It sounded flatter. So I put the Miflex back and it sounded better again. Like there was more warmth, physicality, or body. Using 2 bypass caps might be worth investigating.
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I found the vcap odam with pure silver dueland combo incredible even with the pair together on the large cap bundle. I tried it on a whim with the alligator clips and was like dang! Time to spend more money and order more of these LOL
I run vcap odam for high-pass filter on xlr cables (2 pure side) and compared it with a miflex copper high pass of the same value and thr vcap were quite a bit better.
The vcap need minimal 350 hrs before you can judge them. Get a jdm pure silver bypass and change it for that miflex you have and you will see what I'm talking about!
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I finally got around to putting my system back together so i can give the new V-Cap crossovers a proper evaluation against my original Miflex-based crossovers.
I put about 700 hours on the V-Cap ODAM crossovers and they were quite dramatic in their changes during that burn-in process, especially before ~400Hrs. Sometimes sounding really nice, other times quite hard/edgy. Most of it was done using my Sprout 100 to save my tube preamp which was also out of commission at the time.
By 500+ hrs, that sharp edge was largely gone, and the recommended burn-in time is between 400-500 according to others on the forum, and my experience would definitely recommend that time frame as well, but your milage may vary.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229657&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245607&size=large)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245606&size=large)
Gear:
Source: Surface Pro 3
DAC: Denafrips Ares II
Pre: Tsakiridis Alexander tube preamp
Amp: Battery powered GR-Research GK10 amp.
Cables: all are GR cables except for the PI audio USB cable.
No subs.
For the first 3 tracks, I started with the Miflex setup.
Warm & lush tonally, with a very fluid and inviting sound, solid imaging with a really wide soundstage, making it easy to get lost in the music instead of evaluating them like im supposed to.
Everything I remember them being.
Then I switched over to the V-Cap ODAM network for the same 3 tracks.
Precision, separation and clarity abound, everything has its place, and is solidly locked into place. (Something I noticed on the Spatial X4 as well) It's really easy to pick out a lot fine, mynute details and layering that get could easily get smoothed over.
The depth & precision of of the soundstage is what impresses me most, however it's not nearly as wide as it is deep. Tonally, it's more neutral to cool, with bass & mid-bass isnt nearly as full as the Miflex, but I wouldn't call it sterile. You are able to see deep into the soundstage and into the music itself that isn't matched by anything else I've heard before.
The next 3 tracks with both crossovers proved to be more of the above.
They both have a lot to love about them, but are tonally very different. When I originally picked put the components for my Studios, I nailed the smooth tone i wanted, and i haven't been the slight bit disappointed since I finished them about a year ago now.
I'm really impressed with everything the V-Cap ODAMs bring to the table, their precision and clarity is unmatched over anything I've heard before. The depth and layering of the soundstage is also incredible. My only real complaints are that it's a little lacking in body down low, and the soundstage isn't as wide, and that i tend to get lost in the details hiddem within the music rather than the music itself.
Another thing I noticed that was when running these a few days ago on my Sprout 100, they can be a little edgy/hard, but with my current setup that's not an issue, but I can see this may not play as nice with some systems.
And because of that, I would like to have been able to compare how they would sound with the JDM pure copper bypasses vs the JDM pure silver bypass caps I have on there currently to see if I could soften that edge just a little.
Conclusion:
All that said they are excellent, and the V-Caps are well worth upgrading to, especially if you already love what the stock Studios are doing, as they essentially turn them up to 11 in just about every category. And if you're worried about the edge being a little too much in your system, stick to copper bypass caps (Miflex or Duelund) over the pure silver variety
While the Miflex caps are still my preference for their tone and lushness, they are much more difficult to recommend due to their massive size and higher cost over the V-Caps. They will never fit inside the cabinet. But if you want a warm, enveloping & rich tone, I can't think of a better way to go, even if they aren't technically as clean/precise as the V-Caps.
Cheers! :thumb:
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Nice review! I’m glad you where able to reaffirm and convey what I was experiencing through my Studios with the vcaps. One thing I have learned about the vcaps is that they definitely do not work everywhere. I decided to mod my GK-10 amp with them and although it did improve the amps clarity, something was way off. It clearly wasn’t linear, so I took them out and replaced them with Jantzen Superior caps which are very neutral and that proved to be amazing. At the same time, I modded my Schitt Freya+ with vcaps and that worked out great. So I guess my conclusion is they work well in tweeter circuits and tube gear.
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Yeah there are definitely synergistic considerations that should be made when using the V-Caps, and tube gear paired with them makes for a very nice balance. I can definitely see some solid state/class D gear being a little more hard or edgy for some people, as my Sprout 100 can be that at times.
Using a copper bypass should also help to soften those edges a bit as well without losing the clarity and detail the caps provide.
The Miflex caps are much more forgiving in that regard, as they sound great, regardless of my gear setup, and they're still revealing enough most of the time to not feel like I'm missing out in most cases.
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Thank you for the write up... Big question.. Which crossover will get more use?? Haha
If you had to pick just one, which would you pick?
Unfortunately I wish you used the same resistors in both. I believe your vcap is using silver based duleand but I'm not totally sure those are silver. I user all path audio copper with my nx otica crossover that is ultra similar to yours. Try a pure silver dueland bypass with the 0.1 vcap odam on the mid circuit. It added a ton of Soundstage the combo with sonicaps on my nx otica mid circuit.
I also used vcap in my modified schitt freya+ and that with some really nice tubes to my solid state amp to nx otica with all those crossover. Mods really blew me away.
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Hard to say, the VCaps crossovers will be great for evaluation of other gear/cables in the system, especially with how transparent and clean they are.
But for long-term listening, I can't get past how good the Miflex crossovers sound, it's just very rich and inviting, which is what i really wanted from them.
Part of the reason for switching away from the Path resistors to the Duelund graphite was after finding out that the Path resistors use steel caps on the resistor inside the copper shield.
I still want to try the newer Duelund Cast graphite resistors at some point too.
I may consider using a silver bypass on the mids as well since we have a lot of clips we can use for testing.
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Part of the reason for switching away from the Path resistors to the Duelund graphite was after finding out that the Path resistors use steel caps on the resistor inside the copper shield.
Hobbs I respect you very much, but When I was building my crossovers I tested everything including the Path resistors with a super strong magnet and found nothing. And when my NX's were down do to a dead tweeter, I retested and again found nothing sticking on mine. Maybe this was a change made after mine were produced.
Also using the Duelund graphite makes the comparison not apples to apples, its apples to oranges.
I do want to try the silver bypass caps added to my existing miflex caps.
Anyway for the awesome write up.
Wayne in Oregon
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It's something I've noted before, and checking mine in the past all show a faint magnetism near the caps, and including this one and a few others that have come through.
Here's a picture I took of one some months ago:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241729&size=large)
The magnetism is pretty weak through the casing, and
While it is possible that yours are magnetism free, the ones I've handled in the past year have been magnetic, which is a disappointment considering their marketing and price.
For all I know, it may have come down to availability during the time i baught them, but it's still disappointing.
I'm aware it's not perfectly apples to apples, but it was never really meant to be.
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I remember when you made that post, that's why I retested mine.
OK, maybe switch them over. The carbons on the miflex and the Path's on the ODAM's. Just to see if any difference. Or not.
Those carbon resistors are on closeout at Parts Connection for 40% off. Which variety did you get, they list four kinds? I wanted to maybe get some before they are gone.
Thanks man.
Wayne in Oregon
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The resistors I got were the graphite/silver variety.
Maybe at some point, but they way the miflex crossover is laid out, it would be difficult to get the Duelund resistors to fit.
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Thank You Hobbs.
Wayne in Oregon.
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That red really pops.
Found your matching TT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKFQ8B4cx64 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKFQ8B4cx64)
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Does Jay usually keep the flat packs in stock for the Studio model?
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Does Jay usually keep the flat packs in stock for the Studio model?
Usually. Mine came in about a week (BC to WA shipping)
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That red really pops.
Found your matching TT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKFQ8B4cx64 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKFQ8B4cx64)
That red was tough to get right. I had to blend two different red dyes to get the "red" I was after and both the stain used a different balance from the red tone coats applied over it.
But I'm really happy with how they turned out.
I could have taken time to wet sand the orange peel, but honestly I don't care enough about having a perfectly smooth/glossy cabinet, it'll just make them more of a fingerprint magnet than they already are... lol
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We have them in inventory but since Danny's last video the phone(email) has been ringing/pinging steady.
We will most likely pack 3 sets this weekend, they don't take long to prepare/pack compared to say the N Xtremes and we try to have them box ready when able, as Jay's shop is small we try not to have too much clutter at any one time.
Don
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229657&size=large)
Where do you get those little brackets holding the tube connectors down?
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Where do you get those little brackets holding the tube connectors down?
I actually designed and 3D printed them for myself.
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Securing components with both glue and ty wraps is a good idea for my future project. I was going to try "Sugru" instead of hot glue.
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I actually designed and 3D printed them for myself.
Nice Hobbs!
I may have to dust off my 3D printer! Great idea!
Bob
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Just a little update.
I ordered myself some 0.1uF Duelund JDM copper foil caps to replace the 0.01uF silver JDM bypass. Not exactly apples to apples, but more in line with what I'm used to, especially since I want more of what copper has to offer.
Mostly hoping that it will soften the edges compared to the silver bypass caps.
On Danny's system they're a little too "gritty" for my tastes, and the soundstage is rather narrow, mainly between the speakers, especially compared to my Miflex-based crossover, though I don't expect the bypass to change that much, but I'm curious to see how things play out.
I'll keeping y'all posted as I make progress/changes with this project. :thumb:
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Just a little update.
I ordered myself some 0.1uF Duelund JDM copper foil caps to replace the 0.01uF silver JDM bypass. Not exactly apples to apples, but more in line with what I'm used to, especially since I want more of what copper has to offer.
Mostly hoping that it will soften the edges compared to the silver bypass caps.
On Danny's system they're a little too "gritty" for my tastes, and the soundstage is rather narrow, mainly between the speakers, especially compared to my Miflex-based crossover, though I don't expect the bypass to change that much, but I'm curious to see how things play out.
I'll keeping y'all posted as I make progress/changes with this project. :thumb:
I was just considering trying those for my projects. Looking forward to your observations.
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I ordered myself some 0.1uF Duelund JDM copper foil caps to replace the 0.01uF silver JDM bypass. Not exactly apples to apples, but more in line with what I'm used to, especially since I want more of what copper has to offer.
Mostly hoping that it will soften the edges compared to the silver bypass caps.
Hmmm... I don't have NX Studios, but tonight I installed some Duelund 0.022uF CAST-PIO-Cu Pure Copper Foil capacitors on top of Jantzen Superior Z-caps in the tweeter circuit and a Duelund 0.1uF Hybrid Copper/Silver Foil capacitor on the midrange cap. Should be interesting to hear what happens. I originally ordered a pair of 0.01uF Dueland JDM copper foil caps for the midrange, but decided on the hybrids instead.
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I removed the JDM silvers from the vcaps on my NX Otica tweeters and tried Miflex coppers over the weekend and it removed a slight glare that was there. Sounds nice, there is a little loss of detail so maybe the Duelund coppers will resolve that.
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I want to try out the Jantzen Superior Z-caps. The larger of the two caps needed, the value available is 2uF bigger. Is thst ok? like 25uF vs 27uF
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I want to try out the Jantzen Superior Z-caps. The larger of the two caps needed, the value available is 2uF bigger. Is thst ok? like 25uF vs 27uF
You're getting close to the 10% tolerance, but it should be fine.
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Finally getting around to updating the V-cap crossovers
I snipped off the Duelund silver bypass caps, and made some copper alligator clips to attach the Duelund copper bypass caps.
Danny also wants me to do some comparisons between the current Gen 3 Sonicaps and our new budget JB bypass caps, so I'll see what I can do to burn all 3 in at the same time.
Then after 200hrs start doing some comparisons.
I know the Duelunds will need about 400 hours but they aren't a part of the above comparison, but once they're burned in, ill compare the copper bypass directly with the silver bypass and post my own feedback here, as well.
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Just wanted to share this picture of all 3 caps clipped together in the network. currenly have about 4 days on them, should be at 200 hrs by Monday
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252914&size=large)
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Just wanted to share this picture of all 3 caps clipped together in the network. currenly have about 4 days on them, should be at 200 hrs by Monday
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252914&size=large)
Hey Hobbs I am curious how the new caps are coming along?
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I haven't had the opportunity to compare the Copper and Silver Duelund caps yet, life's been busy and I haven't had the time to finish burning them in, they're about 300ish hours at this point and at 200-250 hours they definitely weren't burned in yet, the soundstage sounded flat as cardboard when I tested them alone, excellent width though.
But I did do some initial impressions on the JB vs the Gen 3 Sonicap bypasses.
Overall they're very close, only about 5-10% difference between them, the JB are a little more detailed/focused, while the Gen 3 Sonicaps were a touch smoother and provide a little wider soundstage.
Tonally speaking they're largely identical, just changing thing at the edges.
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Checking in for updates - hopefully your parts have not melted in all that Texas heat :D
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Oh right, I for got all about the update for the bypass testing.
All of these results are relative to one another, starting with the cheapest.
JB JPX: Adds additional detail/clarity, creating a more focused/precise soundstage, without changing the overall tone.
Gen II Sonicap: Surprisingly similar to the JB. Making the JBs an excellent alternative at a similar price, considering these are not longer available.
Gen 3 Sonicap: Compared to the JB & Gen II, it's still quite similar overall, though just a little less detailed, but offers a wider soundstage than either the JB or Gen II cap.
Duelund 0.1uF Copper: Better detail, much like the JB & Gen II, but with a much more open soundstage (both width and depth) than either previous cap, while still adding that additional richness/warmth from the copper. It really needs 400-500 hours of burn-in before the soundstage depth, finally develops.
Duelund 0.01uF Silver: Very similar to the Duelund copper, but more detail that can be a little edgy or grainy sounding by comparison, if not a bit "artificial", IMO. (though likely dependent on the main cap it's bypassing)
Soundstage is a little narrower than the copper in my system, but is identical in regards to depth.
With the JB and Gen 3 Sonicaps, they're very similar overall, and are mostly playing with differences at the edges, and really depends on where you want the improvements.
The Duelund' caps are impressive, especially once you get past the roughly 3-4 weeks of non-stop burn-in...
My preference it definitely for the Copper over the Silver, as the copper bypass caps just sounds more rich and natural, but if paired with a "dark" sounding cap, the Silver may be the better option in such a case.
I'd eventually like to compare the Duelund "CAST PIO" copper as well as the tinned-copper caps, and maybe throw in the Miflex KPCU and KFPM caps also, but that will likely be for sometime in the future when funds/time allows.
Danny did the same tests with his NX-Tremes in his system a few weeks ago, bypassing the main Miflex cap in the tweeter circuit and came to the pretty much same conclusions as I did.
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Oh right, I for got all about the update for the bypass testing.
All of these results are relative to one another, starting with the cheapest.
JB JPX: Adds additional detail/clarity, creating a more focused/precise soundstage, without changing the overall tone.
Gen II Sonicap: Surprisingly similar to the JB. Making the JBs an excellent alternative at a similar price, considering these are not longer available.
Gen 3 Sonicap: Compared to the JB & Gen II, it's still quite similar overall, though just a little less detailed, but offers a wider soundstage than either the JB or Gen II cap.
Duelund 0.1uF Copper: Better detail, much like the JB & Gen II, but with a much more open soundstage (both width and depth) than either previous cap, while still adding that additional richness/warmth from the copper. It really needs 400-500 hours of burn-in before the soundstage depth, finally develops.
Duelund 0.01uF Silver: Very similar to the Duelund copper, but more detail that can be a little edgy or grainy sounding by comparison, if not a bit "artificial", IMO. (though likely dependent on the main cap it's bypassing)
Soundstage is a little narrower than the copper in my system, but is identical in regards to depth.
With the JB and Gen 3 Sonicaps, they're very similar overall, and are mostly playing with differences at the edges, and really depends on where you want the improvements.
The Duelund' caps are impressive, especially once you get past the roughly 3-4 weeks of non-stop burn-in...
My preference it definitely for the Copper over the Silver, as the copper bypass caps just sounds more rich and natural, but if paired with a "dark" sounding cap, the Silver may be the better option in such a case.
I'd eventually like to compare the Duelund "CAST PIO" copper as well as the tinned-copper caps, and maybe throw in the Miflex KPCU and KFPM caps also, but that will likely be for sometime in the future when funds/time allows.
Danny did the same tests with his NX-Tremes in his system a few weeks ago, bypassing the main Miflex cap in the tweeter circuit and came to the pretty much same conclusions as I did.
Just to clarify you are bypassing Sonicaps and Danny was bypassing Miflex caps and they sounded very similar? Do you see GR Research selling Duelund caps in the near future?
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No, I was bypassing a V-Cap ODAM in the tweeter circuit using the variety of caps listed.
In Danny's case, it was the Miflex Copper cap in his NX-Tremes, being bypassed by those same bypass caps.
So despite the different caps being used, the effects of each bypass cap were very similar across both systems.
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Just to clarify you are bypassing Sonicaps and Danny was bypassing Miflex caps and they sounded very similar? Do you see GR Research selling Duelund caps in the near future?
I don't see us stocking or selling the Dueland products anytime soon. They are pretty pricey too.
I was using them across a Miflex Copper cap, so the differences my have been lessoned with my setup. Differences in that application are more subtle.
My biggest take away was just how good the little JB cap sounded, and it was not pricey at all.
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I don't see us stocking or selling the Dueland products anytime soon. They are pretty pricey too.
I was using them across a Miflex Copper cap, so the differences my have been lessoned with my setup. Differences in that application are more subtle.
My biggest take away was just how good the little JB cap sounded, and it was not pricey at all.
Danny if you bypass a cap with the same type cap would it still sound better because it is able to discharge quicker. For Example a larger Miflex cap being bypassed by a small Miflex cap?
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Danny if you bypass a cap with the same type cap would it still sound better because it is able to discharge quicker. For Example a larger Miflex cap being bypassed by a small Miflex cap?
Yes. I do this in my setup.
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Yes. I do this in my setup.
I did the same with my original Miflex based crossover.
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Danny if you bypass a cap with the same type cap would it still sound better because it is able to discharge quicker. For Example a larger Miflex cap being bypassed by a small Miflex cap?
Yes.
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Danny if you bypass a cap with the same type cap would it still sound better because it is able to discharge quicker. For Example a larger Miflex cap being bypassed by a small Miflex cap?
That was the whole idea behind the RTX Multicap, a fantastic cap for low heat applications when it arrived on the scene. Styrene easily melts, so user be ware. There have been better caps produced since, but dielectric wise, only Teflon is theoretically better than styrene as far a I am aware. Anyway, using a bypass, or a large number of smaller caps, as in multitasking, is a time honored practice.
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No, I was bypassing a V-Cap ODAM in the tweeter circuit using the variety of caps listed.
In Danny's case, it was the Miflex Copper cap in his NX-Tremes, being bypassed by those same bypass caps.
So despite the different caps being used, the effects of each bypass cap were very similar across both systems.
If you had standard crossover with all upgrades from gr-research.com what would you change in it, considering your experience with all those fancy components? Maybe just replace resistors, or add a bypass capacitor? Or maybe you would just leave it as is and build another one from ground?
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I've been traveling down this same capacitor rabbit whole. Where is the sweet spot for the relatively inexpensive capacitors and the higher end bypass caps? I know Danny likes the Sonicaps bypassed by the Miflex caps, but is there an even better combination in a similar price point?
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I've been traveling down this same capacitor rabbit whole. Where is the sweet spot for the relatively inexpensive capacitors and the higher end bypass caps? I know Danny likes the Sonicaps bypassed by the Miflex caps, but is there an even better combination in a similar price point?
For the budget-friendly route, it's a hard combo to beat, the Duelund JDM-Cu and CAST-PIO Pure Copper caps are great alternatives, and some people really like the 0.01uF Duelund JDM silver bypass caps as well. (Silver is a touch too edgy for my tastes) I'd imagine that you could do the same with some nicer Clarity Caps or Jantzen Superior Z-caps paired with Miflex or Duelund caps if you have preferences for a different main cap.
Currently we're unable to get Miflex caps or Gen 3 Sonicaps, so we've switched to the budget JB JPX bypass which are really close to the old Gen 2 and newer Gen 3 Sonicaps, though they lack the touch of warmth/richness the Miflex caps add.
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I'm interested to hear if anyone here has played around with the Cornell Dubilier 940C 600VDC capacitor? I've read good things about it and it seems to be a very good value pricewise. Anyone?
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Newbie Here.
I am trying to build a Home Theatre / Reference level listening room. My room is 17x22 with 10ft ceiling, now wall treatment. Door in corner with fireplace on one wall makes speaker placement difficult and distance from wall for front mains 36" max.
I consider myself lucky to have found and built a pair of the Desktop Mini speakers as an intro to GR Research and immediately fell down the DIY proverbial rabbit hole.
I feel that the NX Studio is quickly stacking up to be my next GR purchase and to simply transition from the Desktop Mini straight to the top-line NX Series with the Neo 3 Tweeter that is so highly regarded.
I have a powered 10" ported subwoofer that I hope to upgrade in the future, but I have a low end.
One thing I need from the group...confidence that the NX Studio with Foil upgrade will not leave me wanting in mid/low bass before handing off to subwoofer.
-Todd
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Hi Todd,
The natural -3dB roll off point of the Studios is ~70Hz, and your 10" sub will have no issues playing up more than high enough to cross to the subs with the crossover set around 50Hz
In fact, the bass will be about as deep as the Desktop mini as both are sealed designs, but the Studio woofer is faster and more detailed than the Mini's woofers are.
So on their own, they wont have much bass down low, but with the sub, that won't be an issue at all.
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More background, I am running what I referred to as mid-level some years ago for home theatre, streaming DTS Play-Fi, and for room correction; Onkyo TXNR-6100 7.2 Receiver
If I turn the sub off or down, I am a little discouraged to hear the bass response will be equivalent between the Desktop Mini and NX Studio. Are the Desktop Mini's (with sonicap upgrade) and my 10" subwoofer considered that good!!?
Have I have not appreciated the Destop Mini's enough?
Or have I possibly put too much weight into thinking the Neo 3 will change my listening life coming from the Desktop Mini?
So then without listening to a video by Danny or New Record Day describing Neo3 Tweeter's praises in the NX offerings, how would you express a comparison of the NX Studio to the Desktop Mini in regard to clarity and soundstage assuming 1) both close to wall and 2) both 3ft from wall?
Many Many Many Thanks
Todd
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NX Studio is the best imaging bookshelf speaker in the world, at least in my experience. Go for it.
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Many of you are probably questioning, "did he just ask to compare the nx studio to the desktop mini, huh,what? And, how dare he. :o
Know that I'm coming from the angle of...maybe the desktop minis are higher on the food chain than I thought! I knew it was a loss leader for Danny but dang, maybe I shouldn't judge a book by its cover. I admit the mini's can take some power at 100w per ch right now and can rock in fact.
I can always look forward though and the Minis have me wanting to push the envelope as far as my wallet can take knowing what else is out there at gr research.
Really appreciate the community here.
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More background, I am running what I referred to as mid-level some years ago for home theatre, streaming DTS Play-Fi, and for room correction; Onkyo TXNR-6100 7.2 Receiver
If I turn the sub off or down, I am a little discouraged to hear the bass response will be equivalent between the Desktop Mini and NX Studio. Are the Desktop Mini's (with sonicap upgrade) and my 10" subwoofer considered that good!!?
Have I have not appreciated the Destop Mini's enough?
Or have I possibly put too much weight into thinking the Neo 3 will change my listening life coming from the Desktop Mini?
So then without listening to a video by Danny or New Record Day describing Neo3 Tweeter's praises in the NX offerings, how would you express a comparison of the NX Studio to the Desktop Mini in regard to clarity and soundstage assuming 1) both close to wall and 2) both 3ft from wall?
Many Many Many Thanks
Todd
In terms of bass extension they will be very similar, they are both sealed speakers.
They were both designed to be used near/against walls, so they will have a similar roll off point.
They weren't designed to play low, dig deep, drop bombs. etc. without a separate subwoofer to take over the bottom end.
However, that is really where the similarities end.
If you want a speaker that is better than the mini and offers deeper bass extension, then you will want either a ported speaker, (like the X-Bravo or X-LS Encore) or a sealed design with a larger woofer. (The Brute or Bully) Any of those options will provide a very nice boost in clarity, detail and soundstage performance over the Mini, on top of offering deeper bass extension.
As I mentioned, the woofer on the NX-Studio, uses a lighter and faster and overall better quality woofer than the one used in the Mini.
So while it won't play any lower, it's provides a more natural, detailed and textured sound by comparison, throughout the mid bass all the way up through the midrange.
Then the Neo3 tweeter will easily outperform the metal dome of the Mini for all of the same reasons, the diaphragm is extremely light weight, and the push-pull motor structure makes it incredibly fast and dynamic, providing a lot more resolution and clarity to the treble that is difficult for most any traditional tweeter to compete with, especially a budget metal dome.
Plus, keeping the tweeter open-backed gives it a much more open and layered soundstage than any traditional box speaker can offer.
The Mini's are very good in their own right, especially in the nearfield, but they will fall short when compared to even the Encore or Bravos for a lot of the same reasons, the better quality drivers play a big part in providing that much more refinement and texture than the mini.
The NX-Studio pushes it even further, giving up bass extension for a more tighter, more detailed presentation, using a sub to control the low-end.
Plus, keeping the tweeter open-backed gives it a much more open and layered sound than any traditional box speaker.
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the NXstudio are power limited, using them in a home theater wouldn't be a great idea unless you can roll of the lows on it.
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I had a tough decision to make:
1) Modify the XCS Bravo MTM to be a transmission line tower and build the tower
2) NX Studio to the moon
While I was really excited about building the transmission line enclosure myself and having that punchy bass response paying homage to my bass loving younger days...... I could not stop thinking what the soundstage of the Neo 3 tweeter would be like.
In a moment of clarity, I added the NX Studio model to cart. This close to 10, I needed to go to 11, my thoughts were racing, I upgraded to Foil Inductors and then everything went blank.
I awoke the next day with Duelund JDM CU bypass caps and Mills resistors on the Visa.
:o
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With the sub playing up a little higher Hz than before, the current Desktop Minis roll off around 70hz with Onkyo Integrated Amp internal crossover. So hoping to do the same with the NX Studios. The Minis were an intro to DIY world for me. When purchasing the Minis, it was for a significantly smaller room. I moved houses and the room is about three times the size now and Minis are just "distant sounding" and cannot project the way they did in a much smaller room. Understanding the Minis are better for nearfield desktop and small room applications, I am not surprised.
I am looking forward to the benefits of the neo tweeter and open baffle, both of which will be new to my ears.
I received the NX Studio kit and upgrades and am in process of assembling crossovers. This build thread has been immensely helpful!!
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With the sub playing up a little higher Hz than before, the current Desktop Minis roll off around 70hz with Onkyo Integrated Amp internal crossover. So hoping to do the same with the NX Studios. The Minis were an intro to DIY world for me. When purchasing the Minis, it was for a significantly smaller room. I moved houses and the room is about three times the size now and Minis are just "distant sounding" and cannot project the way they did in a much smaller room. Understanding the Minis are better for nearfield desktop and small room applications, I am not surprised.
I am looking forward to the benefits of the neo tweeter and open baffle, both of which will be new to my ears.
I received the NX Studio kit and upgrades and am in process of assembling crossovers. This build thread has been immensely helpful!!
In addition, the midrange driver on the Studio's is a substantial step up, too. Here's the technical details:
https://gr-research.com/product/m-165nq/
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Can anyone recommend a cheap or sub $100 amp or honestly any other setup to do the 400+ hour burn in for the Duelund caps. Basically 2.5 weeks power-on non stop with 22 hours on, 2 hours off per day. I don't want to subject any of my everyday equipment to that torture.
Thanks
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Can anyone recommend a cheap or sub $100 amp or honestly any other setup to do the 400+ hour burn in for the Duelund caps. Basically 2.5 weeks power-on non stop with 22 hours on, 2 hours off per day. I don't want to subject any of my everyday equipment to that torture.
Thanks
Aiyima A07 max on Amazon.
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Can anyone recommend a cheap or sub $100 amp or honestly any other setup to do the 400+ hour burn in for the Duelund caps. Basically 2.5 weeks power-on non stop with 22 hours on, 2 hours off per day. I don't want to subject any of my everyday equipment to that torture.
Don't waste money. Just burn in with your current solid-state gear. If you had expensive tubes in your setup, investing in a cheap would make more sense.
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Agreed with Early B, just use whatever SS gear you already have, it can certainly handle it.
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When I first built the GR NX Monitors, I proceeded to break them in with a little FOSI amp. (not even the V3 or ZA3) After about of that week of that silliness, I just hooked them up to the main system. Bottom line, I never heard anything that wasn't listenable from day 1 break-in. Like has already been said, unless there's a tube component in the chain and you're worried about tube life, I would run them in using your main system. Enjoy the transition. I found it to be pretty painless.