Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts

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gprro

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Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« on: 9 Dec 2009, 08:10 pm »
Hi, first post in this section. Hope someone's around, no action for a few weeks.

I'm picking up a Phono 1, the Audiocircle version, and am curious about using with Soundsmith carts. They are a slightly lower output Moving Iron cart. Supposed to be good with MM pre amps, though there output is a little lower comparatively at 2.1 mv. Good combo, or will I need to send it in for some tweaking?

Thanks,
Giyan

Audiovista

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #1 on: 10 Dec 2009, 01:55 am »
Hi Giyan and welcome!

As far as I know you are the first one with Soundsmith cart. It's hard to guess, but with a reasonably sensitive preamp you should get good response.

Let us know!

Thanks,
Boris

rollo

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #2 on: 10 Dec 2009, 02:36 pm »
   The gain is fine the only concern may be capacitive loading. Call Soundsmith to find out how many pf are required to make it sing. Then maybe Borris could adjust the phonostage to the desired load. BTW great cart. On my short list.
    Borris Merry Christmas long time no see.


charles

toobluvr

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #3 on: 10 Dec 2009, 05:00 pm »
Your system's overall sensitivity / gain profile will determine if Vista MM phono stage has sufficient gain with your cartridge.

My Benz has output in the 2.0 to 2.5 mV range and it is fine with my Vista ACLE  (MM version) in my system:

speakers:  91 db
amp:  1.0 volt input sensitivity

If any of the following conditions (or combinations) occurs, you might be short gain:

*  inefficient speakers
*  low sensitivity on amp input
*  low line stage gain (or use of a passive)

« Last Edit: 10 Dec 2009, 06:02 pm by toobluvr »

Audiovista

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #4 on: 11 Dec 2009, 01:40 am »
Hi Charles, good to hear from you - Merry Christmas!! You're right, capacitive loading can easily be optimized for just about any cartridge.

John - thanks for helping out, I'm still not sure what is the standard for specifying a cartridge's output voltage...

gprro

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #5 on: 11 Dec 2009, 07:03 am »
Thanks for the replies all! I'll have to take a look around tomorrow and digest some of this. Long day at work, tired, and vinyl noob :icon_lol:.

Current speakers are in the 90 db range, amp is a modded Jolida JD1000 tube integrated 100wpc.  Have to check on input sensitivity. I was getting used to using 5751's in place of the 12ax7 pre amp tubes. The 5751 cut the gain around 15% I think, maybe a little more. Have to call soundsmith. Not 100% set yet. Any other suggestions on carts to research that work well?

rollo

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #6 on: 13 Dec 2009, 05:12 pm »
  Grado Sonata ref.


charles

toobluvr

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #7 on: 13 Dec 2009, 05:49 pm »

I own the following cartridges and they all work great into my Vista phono:

Dynavector DX20-H
Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood
Benz H2.0

All have outputs in the 2.2 to 3.5 mV range.

gprro

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #8 on: 15 Dec 2009, 10:18 pm »
The Phono 1 ACLE is on it's way to my house! I bought it from another AC member, jkelly. I think he bought it on the original run.. I bought his table too, which is at KAB getting some mods. It's a Technics sl1200 .

After looking at the Soundsmith info for loading, resistance is listed as >/= 47 kohms, and capacity at >/= 400pF. Yay or nay, on the current pre amp set up?


Audiovista

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #9 on: 16 Dec 2009, 01:49 am »
47k is fine, 400pF loading seems high. The preamp that you bought has 47k/150pF. It should work fine.

Best,
Boris

gprro

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #10 on: 16 Dec 2009, 10:03 pm »
Thanks Boris!

The pre arrived today. I noticed on Soundsmith's site, their own MM pre is a 47k/100pF, so it looks pretty close. Don't know why their carts are listed on the page like that...Still want to talk to them about cart differences, I'll find out.. Looking forward to getting the system running.

Thanks,
G

rollo

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #11 on: 23 Dec 2009, 07:26 pm »
 So so the sound of the phono stage is ?  :drool:



charles

gprro

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #12 on: 24 Dec 2009, 10:49 pm »
I'd love to know also :D, waiting for the table mods and cart, should be in a couple weeks after Christmas. Looking like it will be with a soundsmith smmc2 cart. Interestingly, they do offer a 100-200 pF or a 400-600pF loading.

toobluvr

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #13 on: 24 Dec 2009, 11:58 pm »

Many many posts out there on how it sounds.  Check other threads in this Vista forum.

Merry Christmas!  Enjoy your new present.     :thumb:


gprro

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #14 on: 30 Dec 2009, 01:09 am »
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, soon to be happy New Year!  :D

Reading the music-angle article on cleaning the other day, I came across the term "vinyl angst". Good term. Between table research, cartridges, record cleaning, and table set up, it's a good description of my state of mind right now :slap:

Wondering if you guys could help on the cartridge and loading part. I'm set on the SMMC2, but have conflicting input on which loading to choose. Hoping you could shed some light on cartridge and preamp matching. There is a 100-200 pF or a 400-600pF cart. What is the relationship between the cart and pre amp load, and what are you trying to accomplish?

The way I'm looking at it the 400 cart seems right. 150pF for the phono1, 50 for the table, another 150-200 for the cables. Am I correct in this? Piere from Mapleshade heavily suggested the 400pF version, as he says it's sounds better regardless. He also suggested the higher compliance though, which is counter to most everything I've read.

So everyone here familiar with the Phono1, and Boris, what do you think? Soundsmith build each cart to order, so some of the specs can be tweaked. And I guess the pre can be tweaked also.

Thanks!

Audiovista

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #15 on: 30 Dec 2009, 03:19 am »
Oh sure, Phono-1 can easily be modified to match just about any cartridge.

I would gues that 100pF loading may be easier to mate with wide range of preamps. But no experience with Soundsmith, unfortunately.

Can you post some specs for the cartridge? Coil resistance would be good to know.

By the way, 150-200pF seems a lot for interconnects. I have good experience with AudioLimits' interconnects, only 16pF/ft and very reasonable price...

http://www.audiolimits.ca/interconnect/index.htm

gprro

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #16 on: 30 Dec 2009, 10:58 am »
The only listing for resistance is >/= 47kohms. They are a moving iron design, don't know if that makes a difference? Here's the product page also.
http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/smmc2.html

The cable was based on some of the available cables from KAB, the company doing my table mods. They have cable from 19-100 pF foot. The owner was saying I could use the higher rated cable if I needed extra load.

Thanks!

toobluvr

Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #17 on: 30 Dec 2009, 02:58 pm »
When buying cartridges I never pay attention to capacitance......never.  At least not the actual spec for it.

Choose a phono cable with low capacitance and low resistance, and all will be well.  And of course,  be sure to match cartridge output and its resistive loading requirements with your phono section.  That's all I do...and I have always had good results.

Methinks you make much ado about nothing.  Don't get caught up in the minutiae.  I seriously doubt you will hear the difference between 200 and 400 pf. 

Follow these rules and you will be fine:  (1) keep the length, capacitance and resistance of your phono cable low, and (2) match the cartridge's output and load requirement to your phono stage.  If you do this, any cartridge will "work"....sonic flavor notwithstanding.

Just take the plunge and enjoy!

 :thumb:



gprro

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Re: Phono 1 and Soundsmith carts
« Reply #18 on: 30 Dec 2009, 08:47 pm »
Yeah, I'm hoping the enjoy part is soon  :lol:. I just have to pick the cart today or tomorrow if I want to take advantage of the sale. The 100 or 400 pF...? The Mapleshade guy threw me off a little, saying the 400 sounds better regardless.