BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?

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James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #20 on: 5 Jul 2007, 12:12 am »
WOW - thanks Phil - I really appreciate the education.

james

rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #21 on: 5 Jul 2007, 12:20 am »
It’s nice to discuss improvements on the CD format but what I believe a lot of those keeping an eye on this thread are waiting for is to see if their preferred amp-preamp manufacturer has come out with a worthwhile upgrade to spin their Red Book CDs on.
Like many I’ve been sitting on the fence the last few years wondering if I should just add a DAC to my rig or purchase a new player. My Teac VRDS-20 has served me well since 1993/94, outside of replacing two small belts at 50 cents each and a cleaning and lubrication every couple of years I’ve felt my $2400.00 investment served me well much as my numerous Bryston amps and preamps over the years.
I’ve had a few units come and go thinking maybe the quality of the players has improved over the Teac, but for me they never accomplished a justifiable sonic upgrade over of my older workhorse.
Now this also brings up another subject, James was kind enough to send me an inside shot of the BCD-1, now maybe I’m just spoiled on the robust construction of TEAC’s  VRDS system and some other units, but I do find the BCD-1 a bit spartan in overall structure, hopefully the proof is in the pudding, so keep the reviews coming.

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #22 on: 5 Jul 2007, 12:42 am »
It’s nice to discuss improvements on the CD format but what I believe a lot of those keeping an eye on this thread are waiting for is to see if their preferred amp-preamp manufacturer has come out with a worthwhile upgrade to spin their Red Book CDs on.
Like many I’ve been sitting on the fence the last few years wondering if I should just add a DAC to my rig or purchase a new player. My Teac VRDS-20 has served me well since 1993/94, outside of replacing two small belts at 50 cents each and a cleaning and lubrication every couple of years I’ve felt my $2400.00 investment served me well much as my numerous Bryston amps and preamps over the years.
I’ve had a few units come and go thinking maybe the quality of the players has improved over the Teac, but for me they never accomplished a justifiable sonic upgrade over of my older workhorse.
Now this also brings up another subject, James was kind enough to send me an inside shot of the BCD-1, now maybe I’m just spoiled on the robust construction of TEAC’s  VRDS system and some other units, but I do find the BCD-1 a bit spartan in overall structure, hopefully the proof is in the pudding, so keep the reviews coming.


Hi Rob,

Yes I have owned the Teac as well. I think the 'robust' construction philosophy comes more from the fallout of LP turntable design rather than the reality of getting the most accurate signal possible off of the CD.

We tested a number of CD drives from exotic to simple computer drives and if you recognize that once the CD is 'lifted' from the tray during playback it is far more important how the digital information is processed.

james
« Last Edit: 5 Jul 2007, 01:19 am by James Tanner »

rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #23 on: 5 Jul 2007, 02:26 am »

Hi Rob,

Yes I have owned the Teac as well. I think the 'robust' construction philosophy comes more from the fallout of LP turntable design rather than the reality of getting the most accurate signal possible off of the CD.

We tested a number of CD drives from exotic to simple computer drives and if you recognize that once the CD is 'lifted' from the tray during playback it is far more important how the digital information is processed.

james

Hi James

Absolutely agree, which is why the “Proof is in the Pudding” analogy comes about, turning digital bits back into a reasonable analogue signal is its “Reason d’Etre”.
I guess my concern was not addressed to the electronics and DAC conversion, which I believe have already proven them selves but the actual cd transport system which you made reference to. The question, will it hold up to Bryton's legendary history of bullet proof construction?
Then again, transports currently fall into the same debates as cables, amps and analogue versus digital etc
By the way which transport did Bryston finally use as there are very few manufactures actually making them today?

Robert


Phil A

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #25 on: 5 Jul 2007, 03:19 am »
As I will be dropping the CD player back at the dealer tomorrow AM, I figured I'd post a few final thoughts.  I spent most of today up in Gettyburg, PA (with my friend John as it is not a terribly long ride from here) hiking around the battlefield spots and I wanted to compare some stuff on SACD on my Sony 2000ES changer which sits on the wall in the bedroom system that backs to the main system.  While I do have cables running back and forth, they were just too much of a mess of wires at the moment and I was not in the mood to crawl to figure it out.  I'll be unhooking everything with several weeks anyway when I'm ready for carpeting so I figured I would just listen to the Bryston player more.

I listened to several hybrid discs I would consider avg. quality for SACD (e.g. Eric Clapton's "Slowhand," Stevie Ray Vaughan and Albert King "In Session").  I found that with many discs of this quality going back and forth between the SACD layer on the DV9600 vs. the CD layer in the Bryston, there were positives and negatives.  I would say in most of the cases I slightly preferred the Bryston.  It is fairly consistent with what I noticed before.  On better sounding SACDs, the technology shines through and while it is not sure say there were no qualities of the Bryston that I did not like vs. what I heard on the other player, it is something that someone can only personally evaluate in terms of their current hardware and software and the software they anticipate getting down the road.  

While I have a significant investment in SACD in terms of hardware and software, the number of CDs is much more and growing much more rapidly.  Multi-channel is not something I prefer on most hi-res music discs as well.  In my case, given it price point, it is certainly worthy of consideration as an addition to what I currently have.  Given some of the info I noted in my last (and long) post, I feel that SACD and DVD-A were not necessary as formats.  They were more about expiring royalties on CD technology and copy protection for the studios.  Yes, they both are capable of better sound than a CD.  The technology used on DADs, like the Neil Young stuff could have been used to satisfy large segments of mainstream and audiophile customers.  I have DVD-Vs (e.g "Stargate") that require flipping halfway thru the movie.  They could have easily done 24/96 stereo audio on one side and Dolby Digital 5.1 (and/or 2.0 or any other flavor of it) along with MP3s, ringtones or anything else they wanted (or just 2 DVDs or a DVD and a CD like some things have now).  While I have not seen anything recently, Warner announced some time back about DVD-V albums.  Would have it satisfied every single audiophile or non-audiophile?  No, of course not.  But I bet that many would be happy with it.  No special format players to buy.  DVD is the most successful consumer format in history.  For those with pre/pros or rec'rs that could handle a 24/96 digital input it would just require a single cable already in use.  For those that felt an analog path was better for their set-up, it would just require analog interconnects in addition.  CD sales were also sagging (which of course was almost totally blamed on illegal downloading which may be part of the issue but certainly not the whole picture (of course like quality of the product and price have no impact :lol:)
.  The avg. (non-audiophile) member of the buying public has chosen convenience over other factors.

Today we have slowing DVD sales (the studios of course point a major finger to the same problem they have with CD sluggish sales).  Now we have competing DVD formats requiring specialized players.  Costco, in a week or so, has a $15 coupon for a 1080p upconverting DVD player with an HDMI cable making the cost $64.99.  HDMI 1.3 can support 1440p.  When DVD was released, in terms of quality and convenience it was head and shoulders above the mainstream format of the day, VHS.  Today we have HD TV, we have digital cable and satellite broadcast on HD, TIVO, etc.  We even have internet protocol TV in its baby stages.  So there is a lot more choices of better quality stuff.  As internet enabled stuff becomes more commonplace and makes it more convenient, it could be a significant factor among consumers.  With ltd. niche software (not unlike SACD and DVD-A) and more quality choices, along with the format war with not all the studios providing full support to either format.  If the status quo continues with these formats and std. def DVDs con be upconverted to 1080p and beyond, I'm not sure either or both will become mainstream.

A few years back, I used to hold back buying CDs with the hope that an SACD would be released.  I'm at the point with this hobby for this particularly moment in time to have hardware within my budget comfort that plays the software I have and will likely able to buy.  I'll continue to enjoy what I own on SACD (and DVD-A and also buy more if it is avaialbe) but given where it stands it is certainly niche, on life support (e.g. heavy duty classical music enthusiasts are giving it a little mouth to mouth) and not releasing stuff that the masses (customers, not just audiophiles) are about to embrace.  As I've noted, I still have LDs (2 players one in the basement and one in the main system and extra key parts like a spindle motor.  The main and basement system players share many common parts if I had to keep one of them going I could for a bit.  SACD is certainly dead with the masses and if not on the endangered species list it is a stone's throw or two away from being there.

Phil A

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #26 on: 5 Jul 2007, 03:24 am »

Hi Rob,

Yes I have owned the Teac as well. I think the 'robust' construction philosophy comes more from the fallout of LP turntable design rather than the reality of getting the most accurate signal possible off of the CD.

We tested a number of CD drives from exotic to simple computer drives and if you recognize that once the CD is 'lifted' from the tray during playback it is far more important how the digital information is processed.

james

Hi James

Absolutely agree, which is why the “Proof is in the Pudding” analogy comes about, turning digital bits back into a reasonable analogue signal is its “Reason d’Etre”.
I guess my concern was not addressed to the electronics and DAC conversion, which I believe have already proven them selves but the actual cd transport system which you made reference to. The question, will it hold up to Bryton's legendary history of bullet proof construction?
Then again, transports currently fall into the same debates as cables, amps and analogue versus digital etc
By the way which transport did Bryston finally use as there are very few manufactures actually making them today?

Robert


James exchanged E-Mails with my friend John who also noted the transport is noisy.  It is a Philips.  Yes, that does concern me a drop (and if I end up opting for it I may need to find out more details and own an extra one).  Many have switched to Sony transports as they apparently support them for longer (or at least that's why some claim).  That's one reason why I do like a DAC.  There may be other issues associated with it, but the MircoMega I have is probably around 14 yrs. old (not sure how many have owned it) and if there was a problem, it likely could be fixed.

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #27 on: 5 Jul 2007, 12:15 pm »

Hi Rob,

Yes I have owned the Teac as well. I think the 'robust' construction philosophy comes more from the fallout of LP turntable design rather than the reality of getting the most accurate signal possible off of the CD.

We tested a number of CD drives from exotic to simple computer drives and if you recognize that once the CD is 'lifted' from the tray during playback it is far more important how the digital information is processed.

james

Hi James

Absolutely agree, which is why the “Proof is in the Pudding” analogy comes about, turning digital bits back into a reasonable analogue signal is its “Reason d’Etre”.
I guess my concern was not addressed to the electronics and DAC conversion, which I believe have already proven them selves but the actual cd transport system which you made reference to. The question, will it hold up to Bryton's legendary history of bullet proof construction?
Then again, transports currently fall into the same debates as cables, amps and analogue versus digital etc
By the way which transport did Bryston finally use as there are very few manufactures actually making them today?

Robert


Hi Robert,

We are using a Phillips drive - it has been around a while and looking at the constrution it appears to offer easy service and reliability.

I totally agree on the 'proof is in the listening' in fact I have a basic rule when it comes to audio "THE DEMO IS EVERYTHING".  When I go and listen to a system at a show or at a persons home I judge that system on how well it does what a great system is suppose to do- draw you in emotionally. If a specific system does that I do not care what components are involved and that person has credibility in my book.

james



rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #28 on: 5 Jul 2007, 07:53 pm »
Hi James

Any particular Phillips drive CD Pro, CDM12, just curious.

Robert

MOZ

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #29 on: 6 Jul 2007, 07:28 am »
Hi all...

I've being lended a wonderful TAG MACLAREN DVD32R for some time and i'm using it as a CD drive, where it is quite exceptionnal (a lot of people seem to have bought it for use as a CDP only !).
I'm waiting for the BRYSTON CD player to compare it to the TAG.
I'll let you know what are my results...

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/reviews/hccreviews/DVDPlayers/TAGMcLaren/TagSystem_above.jpg
« Last Edit: 6 Jul 2007, 08:38 am by MOZ »

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #30 on: 6 Jul 2007, 10:08 am »
Hi all...

I've being lended a wonderful TAG MACLAREN DVD32R for some time and i'm using it as a CD drive, where it is quite exceptionnal (a lot of people seem to have bought it for use as a CDP only !).
I'm waiting for the BRYSTON CD player to compare it to the TAG.
I'll let you know what are my results...

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/reviews/hccreviews/DVDPlayers/TAGMcLaren/TagSystem_above.jpg

Hi Moz,

During our research on the CD Player we found that many of the DVD drives we looked at are optimized for video playback and had "clocking" frequencies that were not a multiple of the CD standard of 44.1. As a result they have to 'processes' the digital signal to a much greater extent to play a CD.

I think this is why many people feel CD dedicated players usually sound better than DVD players playing a CD.

Let me know how the comparison goes.


james

MOZ

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #31 on: 6 Jul 2007, 12:10 pm »
I know James... but this old TAG (second hand product, priced around 10 000$ US at the time :o) is quite special, nothing to compare with DVD players i know !

I wish to buy a "real drive" for my CDs and the chalenge will certainly take place between this 2 machines  :green:
I will be able to test them a the same time later in the summer because i'm starting some "big restoration" in my flat soon, so my HT will be off for at least a month !

Mag

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #32 on: 7 Jul 2007, 06:50 am »
Okay. I tried to do an accurate comparison of Dire Straits- Brothers in Arms cd and sacd on my universal player.
I can't be certain they are different recordings. There are some slight differences in timing like on Money for Nothing were the drums kick in at 112 seconds on cd and 113 seconds on sacd.
There is definitely a difference in the sound. The cd the snare drum is forward and sharp and bass in the background. On the sacd the snare drum is laid back and the bass is forward. The sacd is a smoother presentation with a little more detail.
So I'm giving permission to use this album for comparison as I consider this to be one of the better sacd's I've heard, which is not that many  :green:

rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #33 on: 7 Jul 2007, 09:43 pm »
I guess my main objective in starting this thread was to see how the BCD-1 stacks up with other similar priced current CD players. Its all-very interesting to compare the sound to SACD but as the BCD-1 is already in production and slated to be a State of the Art Redbook player comparative reviews would be most welcome,how does it stack up against the newer Teac’s, Rega’s, Shanling’s etc.
Sound quality is foremost but pride of owner ship of a unit that looks great, operates in a commendable manner therefore quiet transport, smooth loading, ease of use (remote) and quality components.
Bryston have proven themselves over the years by refining their amplification topography and implementing a unique approach to the output circuitry.
What concerns me most is-if the same approach has been applied by their technical team to BCD-1, as this is their first foray into a stand alone CD player.
Will it replace my current unit and keep me happy for the next ten years or more?

Phil A

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #34 on: 7 Jul 2007, 10:23 pm »
I guess my main objective in starting this thread was to see how the BCD-1 stacks up with other similar priced current CD players. Its all-very interesting to compare the sound to SACD but as the BCD-1 is already in production and slated to be a State of the Art Redbook player comparative reviews would be most welcome,how does it stack up against the newer Teac’s, Rega’s, Shanling’s etc.
Sound quality is foremost but pride of owner ship of a unit that looks great, operates in a commendable manner therefore quiet transport, smooth loading, ease of use (remote) and quality components.
Bryston have proven themselves over the years by refining their amplification topography and implementing a unique approach to the output circuitry.
What concerns me most is-if the same approach has been applied by their technical team to BCD-1, as this is their first foray into a stand alone CD player.
Will it replace my current unit and keep me happy for the next ten years or more?

The drawer of the Bryston as I noted earlier is extremely noisey when opened.  The transport when playing is quiet.  Before I brought it home, I listen against an Ayre and a Rega (Saturn) in the store.  It was in a system of Ayre electronics (expensive mono blocks and preamp) and $12k Piega speakers.  With the Ayre player. the owner swapped balanced (Transparent) cables w/o me being able to see what was playing and put a CD in the player not hooked up and put it on the same track with a CD in it.  While some like vanilla and some like chocolate, I was able to pick out and liked the Bryston better every time.  The Ayre had a polite quality to it that rolled off some stuff.  The Ayre was $700 more.  At first my friend (John) like the Ayre but after the 3rd song that was played on it (5th cut from Rosanne Cash's "Ten Song Demo" - "Bells and Roses") for us, I pointed out some stuff and had the owner play the same cut for him again and he noticed the same thing.  With the Rega Saturn the owner hooked the Bryston up with Transparent balanced interconnects and the Rega with single ended Rega interconnects (the player has no balanced output - not a factor to me with the SP 1.7) and I did not know that (how they were hooked up) until he disconnected the players (he also hid the players from view and put a CD in the unused player on the same track number).  I had a tough time distinguishing the two.  I'd have to listen more under more controlled conditions (e.g. same interconnects) to say which I preferred.  The Rega is $100 more.  It also has no drawer motor to worry about (but being a top loader could be a concern for some).  I owned the original Rega Planet many moons ago.  When I get closer, I'll be dragging my own power cords and interconnects into the store to listen and have it set up with something that I am familiar with.  From the ltd. stuff I heard, I could live with either the Rega Saturn or the Bryston.  I can't say from what little I heard that I have a preference.  I was able to do that quickly with the Ayre vs. the Bryston.  If one liked a more tube-like presentation, it is possible they would prefer the Ayre.  I found it obviously omitting some of the music and definitely could not live with it.  I liked the Ayre 2 channel ($6k) CD/DVD-A/SACD player a bit better than the CD player on CD playback but still having many of the same qualities as the stand alone CD player so I'd definitely prefer the Bryston and that was on an Ayre electronics system.  It was great to be able to hear the Bryston on my system so that when I get closer to being ready to make a decision I have a good frame of reference.

rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #35 on: 8 Jul 2007, 03:47 am »
Thanks Phil

Robert

rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #36 on: 12 Jul 2007, 01:30 am »

Hi Rob,

Yes I have owned the Teac as well. I think the 'robust' construction philosophy comes more from the fallout of LP turntable design rather than the reality of getting the most accurate signal possible off of the CD.

We tested a number of CD drives from exotic to simple computer drives and if you recognize that once the CD is 'lifted' from the tray during playback it is far more important how the digital information is processed.

james

I was just going over these posts again while reading some old literature on TEAC's development of their VRDS systems, which in an analogue system makes sense, also I can’t believe they’ve spent so much time on R&D to just dismiss their overall positive consensus over the last decade and a half on refining their transports.
It would be interesting if anyone ever has a chance, to compare the playback quality using Bryton’s DAC in their  P25/26 with the TEAC as a transport to the stand alone BCD-1.

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #37 on: 12 Jul 2007, 10:32 am »

Hi Rob,

Yes I have owned the Teac as well. I think the 'robust' construction philosophy comes more from the fallout of LP turntable design rather than the reality of getting the most accurate signal possible off of the CD.

We tested a number of CD drives from exotic to simple computer drives and if you recognize that once the CD is 'lifted' from the tray during playback it is far more important how the digital information is processed.

james

I was just going over these posts again while reading some old literature on TEAC's development of their VRDS systems, which in an analogue system makes sense, also I can’t believe they’ve spent so much time on R&D to just dismiss their overall positive consensus over the last decade and a half on refining their transports.
It would be interesting if anyone ever has a chance, to compare the playback quality using Bryton’s DAC in their  P25/26 with the TEAC as a transport to the stand alone BCD-1.


Hi Rob,

It is a tough comparison because the outboard DAC has to reclock and resample the incoming digital signal (jitter issues) compared to the all in one CD Player.

james


rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #38 on: 12 Jul 2007, 11:47 am »

Hi Rob,

Yes I have owned the Teac as well. I think the 'robust' construction philosophy comes more from the fallout of LP turntable design rather than the reality of getting the most accurate signal possible off of the CD.

We tested a number of CD drives from exotic to simple computer drives and if you recognize that once the CD is 'lifted' from the tray during playback it is far more important how the digital information is processed.

james

I was just going over these posts again while reading some old literature on TEAC's development of their VRDS systems, which in an analogue system makes sense, also I can’t believe they’ve spent so much time on R&D to just dismiss their overall positive consensus over the last decade and a half on refining their transports.
It would be interesting if anyone ever has a chance, to compare the playback quality using Bryton’s DAC in their  P25/26 with the TEAC as a transport to the stand alone BCD-1.


Hi Rob,

It is a tough comparison because the outboard DAC has to reclock and resample the incoming digital signal (jitter issues) compared to the all in one CD Player.

james



Hi James

Logic tells me the all in one BCD-1 should better the combo; I’m a great believer in keeping things simple. On the other hand, having the DAC integrated into the preamp eliminates other problems by incorporating the shortest route of the analogue signal from the DAC to the pre.
But, until there are enough BCD-1s out in the field, I guess we’ll just have to wait.

rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #39 on: 19 Jul 2007, 11:51 am »
Missed this thread, which has a factory shot of the BCD-1

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35553

from this thread "Bryston Factory Photos "
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41669.0