AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: James Tanner on 3 May 2010, 05:06 pm
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Hi Folks,
I thought I would start a new thread discussing the Bryston ‘Digital Player’ as the Music Server thread as some people have suggested is a little misdirected.
This Bryston Digital Player (BDP-1) is being designed first and foremost to connect to and augment our BDA-1 External DAC. Below is the literature so far and as things move forward I will add to it as we go.
Bryston BDP-1 (Bryston Digital Player)
PREAMBLE:
We are entering a new age for music enjoyment. We have an ability to reproduce recorded music with more accuracy and faithfulness than ever before. This has been enabled by the recent developments on recording and distributing music in ‘high resolution’ computer readable formats. Until recently any new format required an extensive infrastructure to get launched and need the cooperation of a complete chain of contributors and well as major investments to get underway. But with the continually increasing power of the personal computer and media like the internet and recordable DVD’s it is now possible to distribute the highest resolution audio to anyone with the desire to play it.
However this has also lead to a proliferation of different ways of “consuming” this new content. The pioneers started by building and re-purposing the Digital Audio Workstations that were originally developed to edit the new high resolution files. Those have proven very clumsy for simply playing some music. And they compromise the potential audio performance with many additional and redundant features that contribute little to quality playback of audio. There have been several programs written that enable standard PC’s to become very complex Jukeboxes with endless play lists and user interfaces that resemble computer spreadsheets. These have been mated to premium professional sound cards to make decent playback systems, but they are complex with many components to master and lots of details to confront before actually playing music. Others have taken the fundamental ability of a computer to do almost anything and have built dedicated systems that can do all of the identified tasks of playing digital audio, including ripping content, managing storage, cleaver user interfaces in the same box that is struggling to play the audio files faithfully.
Many digital playback systems incorporate an ‘all in one’ approach to digital playback where the computer has the operating system (Windows or MAC), the video interface, the CD ripper/player, the mother board, the soundcard and the DAC’s contained in one chassis. (Think of this approach more as an audio ‘receiver’ rather than the more performance oriented approach of independent tuner, preamplifier and power amplifier in order to optimize performance in each specific area.) This receiver approach is fine for what it is as it allows for a very easy solution for someone who is looking for ease of use. The problem is the performance suffers due to issues of noise and distortion created by this all in one approach. The computer is a great tool for searching and downloading content, but it becomes a cumbersome tool for playback of quality content. The Bryston Player is much easier to use in practice than a typical multipurpose desktop interface.
BRYSTON BDP-1:
We addressed this process differently. We broke the different tasks apart and dedicated our efforts on the stages that we can bring the most value and performance to. We also felt (in the tradition of component audio) that a dedicated one-function device can do a task much better than the “Swiss Army Knife” personal computer approach.
The Bryston BDP-1 Digital Player single function is to stream digital music files from a storage source. To do this most efficiently, we use a Linux operating system optimized in ways only possible in Linux to provide the highest quality audio performance. Its motherboard is of industrial quality that uses only about 20% of its computing power. The soundcard is one of the finest available and the AES-EBU Balanced output section provides for the highest possible performance when connected to the AES-EBU input on the Bryston BDA-1 external DAC. We also incorporate electronic isolation of audio components from computer components and use galvanic isolation to isolate and avoid charge-carrying particles moving from one section to another.
WHAT IT “DOES”: The Bryston BDP-1 Player focuses on playing high resolution files and will support 16 bit and 24 bit files with the following sample rates: 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz& 192KHz. It brings in the digital files from a USB device (the CD of the 21’st century) or an external hard drive or (NAS) drive over a hardwired Ethernet cable. The BDP-1 Digital Player allows for all resolutions from 44.1 to 192/24bit files to be played back with superb performance. It reproduces the digital content in its native sample rate and bit depth and outputs the data stream to the Bryston BDA-1 external DAC through a high performance dedicated AES-EBU balanced output. It processes digital music files at a performance level unattainable with other approaches.
Externally, the BDP-1 is a technically sophisticated component incorporating state of the art solid-state electronics which links up to your home network and may be controlled by a variety of graphic interface devices (eg, lap-top, PC, PDA, iPhone etc.). The BDP-1’s graphic interface operates under "open source" software protocols, ensuring long term future proofing and compatibility with the widest possible range of other digital devices as they are developed.
Internally, the Bryston BDP-1 music player employs a fan-less motherboard with an integrated processor. It runs an extremely pared down embedded version of the “Linux” operating system (as opposed to Windows or MAC OS). It boots in read-only mode so you cannot accidentally or purposely cause a system failure. Hardwired connections using either a USB drive or an Ethernet connection is utilized to ensure no drop-outs when listening to high-resolution files. All it takes is your iPod or iPhone* plus a router on your local network to show and manage your play lists. You also can monitor and control your BDP-1 through an internet network control using a router and web based interface (EX: Firefox and Minion).
As we have stated above the Bryston BDP-1 Digital Music Player uses any direct coupled USB (thumb drive)) ‘storage source’ or our dedicated network connected enhanced storage system and can play all high resolution AIFF, FLAC and WAV files up to and including native 192/24 bit files. Music must be ripped using a different computer running any operating system and any ripping program the end user is comfortable with. Playback can be controlled via numerous methods. A popular option will be the iPod Touch or iPhone.
WHAT IT “DOES NOT DO”: The BDP-1 Digital Player doesn’t rip content, doesn’t clean up your data, doesn’t display its playlists on a built in screen, and doesn’t rip files. This is because it has no fancy display screen, no hard drive, and no CD drawer or Ripper, and no Wireless Streaming. It boots from flash memory with a read only file system.
PLAYING MUSIC FILES:
In conclusion, the easiest way to understand the Bryston Digital Music Player is to think of it as an 21st century updated CD player. Instead of CD’s as the music source, it utilizes your USB thumb drives or USB hard-drives as the music source or a dedicated file server through hardwired Ethernet using your computers browser as your interface. The Bryston BDP-1 is designed to interface between your ‘music library’ and a high quality external DAC (Bryston BDA-1). The “component” chain works out as follows- The Bryston BDP-1 Player brings in the digital files from a USB device or a network hard drive (via an Ethernet cable) to stream digital music content in its native sample rate and bit depth (currently 44.1Khz/16bit to 192KHz/24Bit). It outputs the data stream to the Bryston BDA-1 external DAC through a high performance dedicated AES-EBU balanced output.
An important point to reinforce here is the ‘home network’ is only utilized to allow you to view, manage and control your playlist using a variety of graphic interface devices (eg, lap-top, PC, PDA, iPhone etc.). In other words the ‘graphic interface’ attached to the home network allows you to ‘see’ what music files are located on the BDP-1 Digital Player. The BDP-1’s graphic interface operates under "open source" software protocols, ensuring long term future proofing and compatibility with the widest possible range of other digital devices as they are developed.
The Bryston DAC continues this focus on function specific design, again concentrating on doing the specific task well. This combination of BDP-1 Digital Player and BDA-1 External DAC will provide you with a state of the art high-resolution digital music playback system.
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The BDP-1 Digital Player doesn’t display its playlists on a built in screen. This is because it has no fancy display screen, no hard drive, and no CD drawer or Ripper, and no Wireless Streaming.
This is just a question because I do not understand why one is required to use an external tool to access the medium used to store the files.
Why can't there be a three line text display which shows just the most basic tree? My daughters miniature Sandisk MP3 player allows for simple scrolling with just 4 arrow keys, which is all that is needed to access the file tree system. I do not own any iToy, my router would require some serious cable to create access for the BDP-1, buying a device like this would cost me at least 25% more just in extras I need to add to it. By making it possible to see on the BDP-1 what one is doing all those extras are not needed, and in my opinion it will only make the ease of use much greater. The motherboard only uses 20% of it's capacity, I doubt the other 80% will be eaten up by an application that runs a small three line display.
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Get the Krell K. I .D.....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=29881)
KID, which stands for Krell Interface Dock, is more than a conventional iPod dock, it is a high performance iPod preamplifier. Krell core engineering technologies populate the circuitry, including discrete, differential, Class A analog circuitry. Optically isolated from the digital circuitry, the KID topology passes signal through a custom 256-step volume control and ends in balanced and single-ended audio outputs. Additional connections include composite, S-video, and RS-232 for use with more advanced control systems. The included remote control provides full iPod management as well as bass, treble, and volume adjustments. Compatible with all generation iPods and iPhones, the KID also charges the iPod battery when resting in its cradle.
The KID and Papa Dock combination defines what is sonically possible when using an iPod as a music source. Coupling the convenience of iPod with Krell electronics elevates iPod listening to a level audiophiles will find unexpectedly thrilling.
The KID delivers maximum sonic performance from any iPod device utilizing the dock connector, including the iPhone and iTouch. All of the iPod functions are accessible via the remote control or via the docked iPod device
Available in silver brushed aluminum.
PS-It matches Bryston well :)
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This is just a question because I do not understand why one is required to use an external tool to access the medium used to store the files.
Why can't there be a three line text display which shows just the most basic tree? My daughters miniature Sandisk MP3 player allows for simple scrolling with just 4 arrow keys, which is all that is needed to access the file tree system.
Have you ever tried browsing a 700 album library with a 3 line display?
Great for playing ABBA, real pain for Zappa though...
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I'm actually not sure why Bryston was so excited about the iPhone.
Apple just patented each and every aspect of using their stuff as a remote:
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/03/great-advances-are-coming-to-apple-remote-apple-tv.html (http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/03/great-advances-are-coming-to-apple-remote-apple-tv.html)
and they are not court shy.
If I were Bryston I would make sure that my stuff is fully usable without any Apple anything.
The good news is that they are making it compatible with the BR2.
Some play/stop buttons on the front panel won't hurt either.
Nap. :thumb:
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Get the Krell K. I .D.....
I'm staying away anything Apple, thank you.
Nap the Luddite
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Hi Anonamemouse
cant quote right now, buggy
Because this is designed to make your dac better not your computer.. It has to be looked at as dac improvement. As good as the BDA is, as it stands its a little shy at providing a good interface between a harddrive and your system. This brings it in line with quality computer based playback. It makes sense doing it like this since many won't use the dac for a decoding a music library off a harddrive, so they don't need to pay for it. This add on brings the dac inline with the best in Harddrive playback out there for those that want it.
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this is designed to make your dac better not your computer.. It has to be looked at as dac improvement. As good as the BDA is, as it stands its a little shy at providing a good interface between a harddrive and your system. This brings it in line with quality computer based playback. It makes sense doing it like this since many won't use the dac for a decoding a music library off a harddrive, so they don't need to pay for it. This add on brings the dac inline with the best in Harddrive playback out there for those that want it.
The thing is, I do NOT want it connected to my computer (the word "computer" here includes routers, networks, HUBs etc., as well as any non Bryston remote) in ANY way. My computers are upstairs, my listening area is downstairs. The BDP-1 allows for usb connections, that is what I will use (IF I would buy one).
I do NOT want to plug anything into the BDP-1, then walk to my computer or iToy, access the file system, find songs or a playlist to play, and finally listen to the hum of my computer in the background while listening to music.
I DO want to plug an USB device into the BDP-1, possibly scroll through the contents using the arrow keys on the front of the BDP-1, and then listen to whatever I decide to, being it just one song or a complete album or a random selection of files through the shuffle application. Three lines are enough for this (although with the Zappa collection this will be a challenge, I agree).
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I'm in, looks like a BDA-1, BDP-1 will be my next purchase! I just got to get my second computer to work again. Oh, and I'm going to need a tetragig hard drive. 8)
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Hello Anonamemouse
Yes but all the complaints that you raised will start showing up in the Bdp1 if it starts looking like a music server. The idea is to keep all dac functions outside the music library host (what ever that is).
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Hello Anonamemouse
Yes but all the complaints that your raised will start showing up in the Bdp1 if it starts looking a music server. The idea is to keep all dac functions outside the music library host (what ever that is).
Please allow me to explain. If my train of thoughts is off anywhere, please correct me.
There is a storage medium. This (in my case) is a USB device, either a stick, an external hard disk, or anything else that allows for data to be transferred through a USB connection.
There is the BDP-1. The USB device is plugged into that. The BDP-1 handles the conversion of the information stored on the USB device and the transport of this data to the BDA-1.
There is the BDA-1 (or another DAC), which transforms the data received from the BDP-1 into an analog signal which can be processed by an amplifier.
This is all I want. I have NO interest in any connection with my computer, or in HAVING to buy a piece of iFruit. ALL I am asking for is a simple way to access the data stored on the USB device DIRECTLY on the BDP-1.
I would just like to see some minor functionality added to the BDP-1. A few buttons, a small display, a means to access files without any third piece of hardware.
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Have you ever tried browsing a 700 album library with a 3 line display?
Great for playing ABBA, real pain for Zappa though...
Yes you can.... I do it everyday with my Slimdevices Transporter on its ONE LINE DISPLAY.
I have three main categories (blues/jazz/rock) which are actual sub-directories in the computer and then I can drill down by artist and then album (and track)
With 2-3 presses of the remote I can navigate to any album/song I have.... and I have over 1000 cd's. And its actually faster than using the GUI.
I am with Anonamemouse on this... I will not consider the BDP-1 if I cant navigate my music from a built in display.
It is up to me do decide if I use just the display or spend extra money and time on a GUI display... but by not offering the option the BDP-1 will lose potential customers.
Maybe its a generational thing.... most younger people have never seen a non-gui interface/command line interface so having to use a device without a GUI is physically/mentally challenging?
I would like to say that it doesnt need any buttons on it.... the Transporter has a million of them and I never use them. sell the BDP-1 with a display that you can use for navigation, no buttons and two remotes.
Peter
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I'm staying away anything Apple, thank you.
Nap the Luddite
Same here.
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The Bryston BCD-1 CD player and BDA-1 DAC both had widespread appeal, and many were bought by people who did not have other Bryston components.
With no integrated interface or digital output other than AES/EBU on the BDP-1 Digital Player at it's price point (even though it may be an elegant and fine sounding component), it will probably not have the widespread appeal of the aforementioned CD player and DAC. I think its primary appeal will be to diehard Bryston fans who are eager to add a new Bryston faceplate to their Bryston collection.
This is pure speculation, and the sales numbers after product release will prove or disprove that.
Steve
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[...]
Maybe its a generational thing.... most younger people have never seen a non-gui interface/command line interface so having to use a device without a GUI is physically/mentally challenging?
I would like to say that it doesnt need any buttons on it.... the Transporter has a million of them and I never use them. sell the BDP-1 with a display, no buttons and two remotes.
[...]
No GUI is fine. But command line.... I really don't want to type "mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/exthdd", without a keyboard it might prove tedious. :lol:
I vote for buttons and display on the front panel and you use your existing BR2. Text display is enough I don't need stamp sized album art.
Nap. :thumb:
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The Bryston BCD-1 CD player and BDA-1 DAC both had widespread appeal, and many were bought by people who did not have other Bryston components.
With no integrated interface or digital output other than AES/EBU on the BDP-1 Digital Player at it's price point (even though it may be an elegant and fine sounding component), it will probably not have the widespread appeal of the aforementioned CD player and DAC. I think its primary appeal will be to diehard Bryston fans who are eager to add a new Bryston faceplate to their Bryston collection.
This is pure speculation, and the sales numbers after product release will prove or disprove that.
Steve
I also vote for having a secondary (non-optimized for BDA-1) coax or optical output for people who would prefer to stick it into a non-Bryston DAC or .... shock and horror.... HT receiver.
Nap.
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The Bryston BCD-1 CD player and BDA-1 DAC both had widespread appeal, and many were bought by people who did not have other Bryston components.
With no integrated interface or digital output other than AES/EBU on the BDP-1 Digital Player at it's price point (even though it may be an elegant and fine sounding component), it will probably not have the widespread appeal of the aforementioned CD player and DAC. I think its primary appeal will be to diehard Bryston fans who are eager to add a new Bryston faceplate to their Bryston collection.
This is pure speculation, and the sales numbers after product release will prove or disprove that.
Steve
Perfectly stated...
My philosophy is I dont want a general purpose computer in my listening room nor any device that contains a hard drive.
The best out there, working within this philosophy, is the Slimdevices Transporter.
So the BDP-1 is on the right track here but it needs to match the Transporter in functionality before its a winner.
You are correct... the limited outputs plus the lack of inbuilt navigation makes it a die hard only product.
Peter
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We have decided to offer both an AES-EBU out and a BNC out.
james
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We have decided to offer both an AES-EBU out and a BNC out.
james
With a bit more badgering I think we can make James "crack" even more and include music browsing from its display :D
If that happens, stick BDP-1 serial # 0001 next to my name!!!
Peter
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We have decided to offer both an AES-EBU out and a BNC out.
james
But you haven't indicated the protocol that the BNC will carry - unbalanced AES/EBU or S/PDIF?
brucek
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But you haven't indicated the protocol that the BNC will carry - unbalanced AES/EBU or S/PDIF?
There wouldn't be much point unless it was S/PDIF, which I assume it is.
Steve
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Mhhh.. How about it looks, feels and works similar to the BCD-1, with some notable exceptions:
1. it does not have a CD tray; instead it has an USB port for connecting a pocket HD
2. it does not have analog outputs; instead it has digital ones.
3. it displays folder/file name instead of CD track number;
Apple remote, networking etc are a bonus.
Sounds good folks?
Nap.
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But you haven't indicated the protocol that the BNC will carry - unbalanced AES/EBU or S/PDIF?
brucek
Sorry - SPDIF, - 75 ohms.
james
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^^^^
Hi Napalm
Yes :thumb:
it also utilizes an excellent sound card, built to very high standards in keeping digital noise out of the power supply and it streams 192khz. And with its bal digital out it can drive the bda or any other dac np from quite a distance so your comp can be in different room even.
its awesome, can t wait
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Yes you can.... I do it everyday with my Slimdevices Transporter on its ONE LINE DISPLAY.
I have three main categories (blues/jazz/rock) which are actual sub-directories in the computer and then I can drill down by artist and then album (and track)
With 2-3 presses of the remote I can navigate to any album/song I have.... and I have over 1000 cd's. And its actually faster than using the GUI.
I am with Anonamemouse on this... I will not consider the BDP-1 if I cant navigate my music from a built in display.
It is up to me do decide if I use just the display or spend extra money and time on a GUI display... but by not offering the option the BDP-1 will lose potential customers.
Maybe its a generational thing.... most younger people have never seen a non-gui interface/command line interface so having to use a device without a GUI is physically/mentally challenging?
I would like to say that it doesnt need any buttons on it.... the Transporter has a million of them and I never use them. sell the BDP-1 with a display that you can use for navigation, no buttons and two remotes.
Peter
I have to concur completely with this. I do have a laptop I barely use but don't want to drag it out just to play music. I'm thinking about the Logitech Squeezebox Touch for this reason - yes it will only do 24/96 vs. 24/196 and may not give one 100% of the sound quality but I can hook it to my network and navigate. I am going to wait a little and think about it and I doubt (hi-rez) downloads will constitute (at least for a bit) enough of my music collection to warrant it.
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^^^^
I know i have considered that too, the amount of hirez recording, does it warrant it? I was considering a cheaper usb/coax adapter that will stream 96khz for that reason. I like my usb into the BDA but i prefer the coax that these cheaper units give you.
having said that i had the same apprehension about the BDA over other a lot cheaper models like the Benchmark dacs. The Benchmark is nice but after listening the to BDA i am glad i've got it. This is why i think the BDP1 will drive the BDA will analogue clarity.
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Since James has stirred the hornets nest, let me make a name for it too. :wink:
Since we had BCD-1 for the CD player..... how about BHD-1 for Hard Disk player? Would be easier to explain what it is ("it's like a CD transport except it plays from a hard disk").... and people could conveniently mistake HD for High Definition too.... :icon_twisted:
Nap. :thumb:
P.S. James if you end up naming it BHD-1 you'll owe selling me the one with serial number 666. So I could show it to Laundrew and make him green. :green:
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Yes you can.... I do it everyday with my Slimdevices Transporter on its ONE LINE DISPLAY.
I have three main categories (blues/jazz/rock) which are actual sub-directories in the computer and then I can drill down by artist and then album (and track)
With 2-3 presses of the remote I can navigate to any album/song I have.... and I have over 1000 cd's. And its actually faster than using the GUI.
I am with Anonamemouse on this... I will not consider the BDP-1 if I cant navigate my music from a built in display.
It is up to me do decide if I use just the display or spend extra money and time on a GUI display... but by not offering the option the BDP-1 will lose potential customers.
Maybe its a generational thing.... most younger people have never seen a non-gui interface/command line interface so having to use a device without a GUI is physically/mentally challenging?
I would like to say that it doesnt need any buttons on it.... the Transporter has a million of them and I never use them. sell the BDP-1 with a display that you can use for navigation, no buttons and two remotes.
Peter
I know there are those in this hobby who will go to the extremes to make things signal paths 'pure' (and that's o/k), etc., but for me there still needs to be a covenience factor, even at the price of a negligible reduction in performance.
I run a Transporter into my BDA-1 (using a Duet Controller) and would not change to buy the BDP-1 as described in this thread.
Keith
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^^^^^
Hi All,
Yes it really does come down to the level of performance you're looking for. Covenience has compromises. I have gone the route of the all in one server and have 3 systems currently - they are great for what they are but not at the level of performance the BDP-1 / BDA-1 will achieve based on my listening tests so far. To each his own.
james
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Same here.
More of it:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews)
Nap. :roll:
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I'm excited! Just a bit concerned about file format support as FLAC, WAV and AIFF is probably the main three for high resolution files but there are two formats much more common for music files that aren't hi-rez.
Jim
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For those of us with SP2's, will the BDP-1 be able to be an input, 96/24, to the SP2?
Then I can save some expense and accept a slightly reduced music quality.
Thanks, JohnnyB
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James picture food always welcome
can you post a Pic
Robert
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IIRC it's still a prototype, it might look like this:
(http://)
Nap. :wink:
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For those of us with SP2's, will the BDP-1 be able to be an input, 96/24, to the SP2?
Then I can save some expense and accept a slightly reduced music quality.
Thanks, JohnnyB
Yes the SP2 would decode the 96/24 digital signal from the Player.
james
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Okay James I'm trying to understand the concept of the BDP-1. Would it be similar to an external soundcard only with better circutry? I'm not as computer savy as others, but I like being on the cutting edge, ahead of the Joneses.
I'm thinking of getting a 2 terabyte hard drive. I figure it can hold 1500 cds uncompressed or 15,000 to 30,000 song. That should be enough storage for my music collection. :smoke:
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As a long time Squeezebox user (since the SliMP3), I'm afraid the current description is not enough for me to give up a Transporter with Duet controller and/or iPod Touch with iPeng. Managing the music files when you are in the thousands is non-trivial, so the integration with the file store and organizer does come into play both for convenience and accessibility.
I bought the BDA-1 based on reviews and comments (not delivered yet), and will attach it between my BP26 and the Transporter to give me a choice of DACs. The Transporter sounds great to me, so it will be interesting to see if the BDA-1 makes an audible difference.
I deliberately stayed away from a computer/sound card combo regardless of operating system.
Just don't get the BDP-1 value proposition yet.
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I tend to think that we're all driven by sound quality. As much as I love my SB Touch (and it does sound great), if the BDP-1 would substantially improve sound quality, I would be at least curious if not ready to buy.
But for me, having to run a long ethernet cable from my NAS upstairs to my audio system downstairs just isn't going to happen, which leaves a USB-based hard disk. James, is the sound quality of the BDP-1 from USB any different than via ethernet? Can USB really stream 24/192 adequately?
The lack of a built-in UI is a bit disconcerting, but then, technology marches on and sooner or later we'll all have iPhones, iPads or the equivalents readily available so that concerns me far less. But, is the BDP-1 just playing music out of the the file directory? What tools are provided for playlists, random play, by genre, search, etc? Like it or not, that convenience and functionality is hard to give up once you've had a taste of it.
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James, is the sound quality of the BDP-1 from USB any different than via ethernet? Can USB really stream 24/192 adequately?
Hi Mike,
There is no 'streaming' going on with the Ethernet connection. Streaming has issues with noise and distortion if it’s in the same box (all in one approach) and streaming hi-resolution files is a serious problem - lots of drop outs etc.
The Ethernet connection is 'ONLY' to allow you access to what's on the USB drive(s) that is (are) plugged into the BDP-1 digital player using the itouch or a web browser on your computer as the UI.
So for instance I have a small MAC Laptop that I use as my UI and I can access and manage the music files on the BDP-1 digital box from anywhere in the house using the wireless home network.
james
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But for me, having to run a long ethernet cable from my NAS upstairs to my audio system downstairs just isn't going to happen, which leaves a USB-based hard disk.
Maybe this is a dumb question but why can't the Ethernet connection on the BDP-1 be wireless?
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>>There is no 'streaming' going on with the Ethernet connection. Streaming has issues with noise and distortion if it’s in the same box (all in one approach) and streaming hi-resolution files is a serious problem - lots of drop outs etc.<<
So then you are basically transferring the file on your computer hard drive/s to a hard drive in the BDP-1, to convert to wave? :smoke:
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>>There is no 'streaming' going on with the Ethernet connection. Streaming has issues with noise and distortion if it’s in the same box (all in one approach) and streaming hi-resolution files is a serious problem - lots of drop outs etc.<<
So then you are basically transferring the file on your computer hard drive/s to a hard drive in the BDP-1, to convert to wave? :smoke:
Hi MAG,
No there is no harddrive transfer - you are loading your music files on a USB thumbdrive or a USB harddrive (from your main computer) which is then connected to the BDP-1 and the BDP-1 accesses the file directly from the USB.
It sounds more complicated then it is - just think of the BDP-1 as a CD Player but instead of a CD you use a USB thumbdrive or USB harddrive connected directly to the player.
james
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>>There is no 'streaming' going on with the Ethernet connection. Streaming has issues with noise and distortion if it’s in the same box (all in one approach) and streaming hi-resolution files is a serious problem - lots of drop outs etc.<<
So then you are basically transferring the file on your computer hard drive/s to a hard drive in the BDP-1, to convert to wave? :smoke:
Mag,
James just explained that the Ethernet connection is only used to connect your PC to the BDP to provide access to what is on your USB music storage decvice that is also connected to the BDP i.e. hard drive or thumb drive. Since the topic of discussion in the post I quoted was the dismay at the loss of convenience to see what is on the drive due to having to run a cable from a distance through the house, it begged my question why can't the connection be wireless since it is ordinary data and not streaming music files being transported. I don't see how this would be any different than me sending a print job from a laptop on my wireless network that is downstairs to a printer on the same network upstairs.
Bill
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Mag,
James just explained that the Ethernet connection is only used to connect your PC to the BDP to provide access to what is on your USB music storage decvice that is also connected to the BDP i.e. hard drive or thumb drive. Since the topic of discussion in the post I quoted was the dismay at the loss of convenience to see what is on the drive due to having to run a cable from a distance through the house, it begged my question why can't the connection be wireless since it is ordinary data and not streaming music files being transported. I don't see how this would be any different than me sending a print job from a laptop on my wireless network that is downstairs to a printer on the same network upstairs.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Because then you would have to have a wireless receiver in the BDP-1 and here we go again with noise issues.
james
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As a long time Squeezebox user (since the SliMP3), I'm afraid the current description is not enough for me to give up a Transporter with Duet controller and/or iPod Touch with iPeng. Managing the music files when you are in the thousands is non-trivial, so the integration with the file store and organizer does come into play both for convenience and accessibility.
I bought the BDA-1 based on reviews and comments (not delivered yet), and will attach it between my BP26 and the Transporter to give me a choice of DACs. The Transporter sounds great to me, so it will be interesting to see if the BDA-1 makes an audible difference.
I deliberately stayed away from a computer/sound card combo regardless of operating system.
Just don't get the BDP-1 value proposition yet.
when you get the BDA you will see why the BDP is interesting to me. Its an extension of the BDA and I am hoping will match the integrity of the BDA sound.
I believe the whole philosphy of the BDP is to take the files, reclock to the BDA while isolating
your computer system from your hifi. Since the BDP is made by Bryston
its going to be the best mate for the BDA since it will probably act
slaved to the BDA clock. And it will look like the BDA so it will be slick.
Thats basically it for me. The only real reason i want this is because the
BDA rocks er pretty good and this is its match.....you'll see!!
-
Hi Bill,
Because then you would have to have a wireless receiver in the BDP-1 and here we go again with noise issues.
james
But then you could always connect something like this:
http://www.dlink.ca/products/?pid=741 (http://www.dlink.ca/products/?pid=741)
to the ethernet port of the BDP-1 and configure it in "ETHERNET TO WIRELESS" adapter mode.
So basically now your BDP-1 is wireless enabled :eyebrows:
Nap. :tempted:
-
But then you could always connect something like this:
http://www.dlink.ca/products/?pid=741 (http://www.dlink.ca/products/?pid=741)
to the ethernet port of the BDP-1 and configure it in "ETHERNET TO WIRELESS" adapter mode.
So basically now your BDP-1 is wireless enabled :eyebrows:
Nap. :tempted:
Thank you nap. That's what I was thinking, that there should be a couple different ways to provide a wireless ethernet connection from the PC to the BDP. It could also be built in at the factory much like wireless capability is built in to a laptop without any external adapter. Again, the purpose is to gain access to information about what is on the USB drive connected to the BDP and not to stream the music files which is the realm of the USB drive. To me this helps mitigate the "loss of convenience" factor of not being able to navigate the contents of the USB drive due to the absense of a display on the BDP. That is assuming you have a wireless laptop. Like James stated earlier, the design goal of the BDP is to do one thing and do it well so that even this application must be outboard and third party.
-
Thank you nap. That's what I was thinking, that there should be a couple different ways to provide a wireless ethernet connection from the PC to the BDP. It could also be built in at the factory much like wireless capability is built in to a laptop without any external adapter. Again, the purpose is to gain access to information about what is on the USB drive connected top the BP and not to stream the music files which is the realm of the USB drive. To me this helps mitigate the "loss of convenience" factor of not being able to navigate the contents of the USB drive due to the absense of a display on the BDP. That is assuming you have a wireless laptop where you download and store your music files. Like James stated earlier, the design goal of the BDP is to do one thing and do it well so that even this application must be outboard and third party.
Hi Dyna
You got good gear, why would you want to muck up your soundstage with gate glare for the convenience of a display?.
You computer or what ever you will be using in my estimation will offer all the convenience you need. THis piece is just
a Branch of the dac. It really is an expensive soundcard but its been properly implemented to mate with your BDA and isolate
system from the comp. And you get 192 for the major enthusiast. Not many dacs will stream 192 and the bda does. I am looking
forward to this.
It would be nice to see a 192 recording on dvd come with this unit as a promo to get people started on it. :eyebrows:
-
Hi James,
Have you considered a BDA-BDP combo unit?
Containing some/all of the connection types found on both units, only housed in one box.
For that matter would this type of device be feasible?
-
Hi James,
Have you considered a BDA-BDP combo unit?
Containing some/all of the connection types found on both units, only housed in one box.
For that matter would this type of device be feasible?
Hi JRace,
Yes it would be possible but we felt since the DAC is already out there adding the Player would be more cost effective for our customers.
james
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Thank you nap. That's what I was thinking, that there should be a couple different ways to provide a wireless ethernet connection from the PC to the BDP. It could also be built in at the factory much like wireless capability is built in to a laptop without any external adapter. Again, the purpose is to gain access to information about what is on the USB drive connected to the BDP and not to stream the music files which is the realm of the USB drive. To me this helps mitigate the "loss of convenience" factor of not being able to navigate the contents of the USB drive due to the absense of a display on the BDP. That is assuming you have a wireless laptop. Like James stated earlier, the design goal of the BDP is to do one thing and do it well so that even this application must be outboard and third party.
There's a Linksys small unit that does this too:
http://www.linksysbycisco.com/APAC/en/products/WAP610N (http://www.linksysbycisco.com/APAC/en/products/WAP610N)
Both brands are widely available (Best Buy / Futureshop / most indie computer shops). Would be nice if Bryston checks at least one of them for compatibility.
There are 2 good reasons for not having the wireless adapter inside the Bryston box. One is the RF circuitry. The other is planned obsolescence. The standards are (very fast) moving here too. So better to have to replace a $69 external adapter than fight with endless patches or even going into a dead end.
Also if I don't need wireless I would not connect one at all and will have less electronic noise around.
Nap.
-
when you get the BDA you will see why the BDP is interesting to me. Its an extension of the BDA and I am hoping will match the integrity of the BDA sound.
I believe the whole philosphy of the BDP is to take the files, reclock to the BDA while isolating
your computer system from your hifi. Since the BDP is made by Bryston
its going to be the best mate for the BDA since it will probably act
slaved to the BDA clock. And it will look like the BDA so it will be slick.
Thats basically it for me. The only real reason i want this is because the
BDA rocks er pretty good and this is its match.....you'll see!!
I wish the BDP-1 would be slaved to the DAC, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.
Hi Aaron,
No slaving at this point although the jitter numbers I am measuring on the player are incredibly low.
james
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I wish the BDP-1 would be slaved to the DAC, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.
I know but its going be matched as far as clock freq. Thats why i said act and not is...
-
Hi JRace,
Yes it would be possible but we felt since the DAC is already out there adding the Player would be more cost effective for our customers.
james
Not for me, I don't have the DAC yet.... planning for this fall.... I guess a single chassis could make the whole thing more cost effective....
How about having an optional DAC board (based on the BDA-1) installable into it at factory? Like with the preamps?
Or.... you could merge the designs... have one single chassis... that can come with DAC or media player or both inside..... I can see some savings in manufacturing costs too..... :wink:
Nap. :tempted:
-
Hi Dyna
You got good gear, why would you want to muck up your soundstage with gate glare for the convenience of a display?.
You computer or what ever you will be using in my estimation will offer all the convenience you need. THis piece is just
a Branch of the dac. It really is an expensive soundcard but its been properly implemented to mate with your BDA and isolate
system from the comp. And you get 192 for the major enthusiast. Not many dacs will stream 192 and the bda does. I am looking
forward to this.
It would be nice to see a 192 recording on dvd come with this unit as a promo to get people started on it. :eyebrows:
Hi werd,
Listen up since I already had the same converstaion with mag: I'm not talking about the music streaming from the USB drive through the BDP to the BDA. I'm also not asking for a display on the BDP. I'm talking about the Ethernet connection that James has stated is only there to provide access to information about what is stored on the USB drive. The entire conversation is in response to those who are calling for a display for the convenience factor. I'm merely suggesting that a wireless ethernet connection will allow the convenience of a display independent of the BDP on your wireless laptop. You are basically agreeing with me if you read my posts and the quotes they reference carefully.
BTW, also trying to help James overcome an objection to the absense of the display being voiced here (sales 101--been doing it all my life).
Regards,
Bill
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The entire conversation is in response to those who are calling for a display for the convenience factor.
Dr. Bill,
There are 2 camps here - the luddites and the propellerheads.
I'm with the luddites. I want it just as a replacement for a CD transport. Thus I see no reason for ethernet, iPhone and web browser. I want it to have a 2 line display, front panel buttons and work with BR2.
Then there are the propellerheads. They want it to integrate with their wireless home network, iPhone and other gadgets. They, of course, don't care about front panel display, buttons, or BR2.
There's no right or wrong camp. So what do you do? Accommodate none, both, or only one of them?
Nap. :thumb:
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Hi werd,
Listen up since I already had the same converstaion with mag: I'm not talking about the music streaming from the USB drive through the BDP to the BDA. I'm also not asking for a display on the BDP. I'm talking about the Ethernet connection that James has stated is only there to provide access to information about what is stored on the USB drive. The entire conversation is in response to those who are calling for a display for the convenience factor. I'm merely suggesting that a wireless ethernet connection will allow the convenience of a display independent of the BDP on your wireless laptop. You are basically agreeing with me if you read my posts and the quotes they reference carefully.
BTW, also trying to help James overcome an objection to the absense of the display being voiced here (sales 101--been doing it all my life).
Regards,
Bill
Yah okok, i didnt read it... i will punch myself in the face for ya..
-
There is no 'streaming' going on with the Ethernet connection. Streaming has issues with noise and distortion if it’s in the same box (all in one approach) and streaming hi-resolution files is a serious problem - lots of drop outs etc.
The Ethernet connection is 'ONLY' to allow you access to what's on the USB drive(s) that is (are) plugged into the BDP-1 digital player using the itouch or a web browser on your computer as the UI.
So for instance I have a small MAC Laptop that I use as my UI and I can access and manage the music files on the BDP-1 digital box from anywhere in the house using the wireless home network.
james
But, but, but.... in the 1st post you say...
It brings in the digital files from a USB device (the CD of the 21’st century) or an external hard drive or (NAS) drive over a hardwired Ethernet cable.
That seems to say something different than only serving files from the attached USB drive. Sorry to be so dense but I feel like I'm missing something here... :scratch:
Another question.... what UI on your Mac (or from an iPhone) are you using to access and manage the music? Is it just a browser interface to something being served from the BDP-1?
-
James,
I must be missing something here. In order to put new songs on the USB hard drive I have to disconnect the USB hard drive from the BDP-1 and then take this USB drive to my computer to add the new songs, then take it back to the BDP-1. Is this right? If so that is a lot of inconvenience.
Tim
-
James,
I must be missing something here. In order to put new songs on the USB hard drive I have to disconnect the USB hard drive from the BDP-1 and then take this USB drive to my computer to add the new songs, then take it back to the BDP-1. Is this right? If so that is a lot of inconvenience.
Tim
Hi Tim,
Yes that is correct. I really do not see it as much of an inconvenience though as I have a 500 gig USB hard drive permently attached to the BDP-1 with thousands of files and I use the USB thumbdrive as a portable drive to try different files etc when I want. Also when my buddy comes over he brings his thumbdrive with him with his favorite songs loaded and away we go!
james
-
But, but, but.... in the 1st post you say...
It brings in the digital files from a USB device (the CD of the 21’st century) or an external hard drive or (NAS) drive over a hardwired Ethernet cable.
That seems to say something different than only serving files from the attached USB drive. Sorry to be so dense but I feel like I'm missing something here... :scratch:
Another question.... what UI on your Mac (or from an iPhone) are you using to access and manage the music? Is it just a browser interface to something being served from the BDP-1?
Hi Mike,
Our hope is to add a NAS drive going forward that the BDP-1 would 'recognize' instantly on the network therefore eliminating the need for the customer to be a computer geek.
james
-
There's a Linksys small unit that does this too:
http://www.linksysbycisco.com/APAC/en/products/WAP610N (http://www.linksysbycisco.com/APAC/en/products/WAP610N)
Both brands are widely available (Best Buy / Futureshop / most indie computer shops). Would be nice if Bryston checks at least one of them for compatibility.
There are 2 good reasons for not having the wireless adapter inside the Bryston box. One is the RF circuitry. The other is planned obsolescence. The standards are (very fast) moving here too. So better to have to replace a $69 external adapter than fight with endless patches or even going into a dead end.
Also if I don't need wireless I would not connect one at all and will have less electronic noise around.
Nap.
From engineering:
It’s possible to get a wireless receiver/transmitter pair working but noise suggests you want it external to the box and configuring it also suggests you want it external to the box. We would recommend power line networking since the configuration is automatic and invisible. Also if the connection is good enough it works pretty well for moving content as well.
Building this into the box adds a considerable cost and a support premium that brings no value to many customers. You can get external power line networking for as little as $30 a box at Tiger Direct.
-
How much will the BDP-1 cost. What's the approximate price point that you're looking at for the US market?
-
Hi Mike,
Our hope is to add a NAS drive going forward that the BDP-1 would 'recognize' instantly on the network therefore eliminating the need for the customer to be a computer geek.
james
James, thanks - that makes sense.
So the software that accesses and manages the music via a browser - is that served up by the BDP-1 and, if so, can you provide any info on how robust it is? I'm still a bit confused on how the music collection is then accessed and managed for playback...
-
Hi Mike,
Our hope is to add a NAS drive going forward that the BDP-1 would 'recognize' instantly on the network therefore eliminating the need for the customer to be a computer geek.
james
Hi Mike,
On the 2nd question on the iphone or itouch there is a free remote control download from Apple called 'Mpod' - it works great. On the MAC I use Firefox as the browser and the free program is called Minion - works great!
james
-
Ha!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#USB_3.0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#USB_3.0)
Nap. :duh:
-
Ha!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#USB_3.0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#USB_3.0)
Nap. :duh:
There's no immediate advantage to use USB3.0 for this application, USB 2.0 is fine. As USB 3.0 HDDs are showing up on the store shelfs now they are still backwards compatible with USB 2.0. Also, USB 3.0 is even faster than today's HDD so the only benefit for USB 3.0 would be for expensive RAID setups for high IO processing. If anything this will compete with eSATA and Fiber-channel disk arrays, but if the cost is low it will replace any USB2.0 ports and devices. CPUs, device drivers and OSes update much faster than these serial standards typically do.
My biggest fear is with the lack of hi-resolution music of today's artists could hint at that the current formats are going to get shunned (WAV, FLAC, AIFF). We know this hi-rez train is coming but we don't really know when or how... Worst case scenario would be with Microsoft and Apple using another format, perhaps another format war, that supports HDCP 2.0, which is intended for online streaming for the Zune and iPod. That alone would shake up existing formats and solutions.
-
[...]My biggest fear is with the lack of hi-resolution music of today's artists could hint at that the current formats are going to get shunned (WAV, FLAC, AIFF). We know this hi-rez train is coming but we don't really know when or how... Worst case scenario would be with Microsoft and Apple using another format, perhaps another format war, that supports HDCP 2.0, which is intended for online streaming for the Zune and iPod. That alone would shack up existing formats and solutions.
I guess the industry's wet dream is to have a heavily DRM and patent infested product that is "licensed not sold", preferably through a subscription service, and delivered through a device that has a kill switch (a la Apple's iPhone, Sony's "updates" for PS3 and BR players, or Microsoft's "Genuine Advantage").
I hope the public is aware by now of these schemes and won't jump both feet into it.
Nap. :thumb:
-
The above concerns are why we want to keep the BDP-1 as "open source" as possible - ex: ability to play Flac files.
james
-
The above concerns are why we want to keep the BDP-1 as "open source" as possible - ex: ability to play Flac files.
james
Hi James,
I think that you are aware that the big boys are after cleaning the area of any open source/public domain codec or format:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/30/steve_jobs_claims_ogg_theora_attack/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/30/steve_jobs_claims_ogg_theora_attack/)
I guess you could contribute to this by helping Steve to sell some more iPhones/iPods/iPads. To be used as remotes. :eyebrows:
Nap. :o
-
Hi James,
I think that you are aware that the big boys are after cleaning the area of any open source/public domain codec or format:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/30/steve_jobs_claims_ogg_theora_attack/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/30/steve_jobs_claims_ogg_theora_attack/)
I guess you could contribute to this by helping Steve to sell some more iPhones/iPods/iPads. To be used as remotes. :eyebrows:
Nap. :o
lol.... never happen. Unless the U.S. and their sh@#ty ideas on the internet get their way.
-
lol.... never happen. Unless the U.S. and their sh@#ty ideas on the internet get their way.
They're working on it:
http://gizmodo.com/5396757/secret-copyright-treaty-details-leak-isps-worldwide-to-become-copyright-cops (http://gizmodo.com/5396757/secret-copyright-treaty-details-leak-isps-worldwide-to-become-copyright-cops)
Nap. :duh:
-
They're working on it:
http://gizmodo.com/5396757/secret-copyright-treaty-details-leak-isps-worldwide-to-become-copyright-cops (http://gizmodo.com/5396757/secret-copyright-treaty-details-leak-isps-worldwide-to-become-copyright-cops)
Nap. :duh:
I havent seen that one yet, and yet their internet was pathetic only until recently for ping. And now they think they can control the world ip protocol. They will learn fast Europe and Asia will just ignore them. No one is buying into that crap.
-
I havent seen that one yet, and yet their internet was pathetic only until recently for ping. And now they think they can control the world ip protocol. They will learn fast Europe and Asia will just ignore them. No one is buying into that crap.
Don't underestimate the power of bribes. In the unlikely event that it doesn't work, US will help organize "free elections" until they get in place the right kind of politicians.
Nap.
-
They're already testing the stuff:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/05/06/berliner_philharmoniker_on_bravia/ (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/05/06/berliner_philharmoniker_on_bravia/)
No blu-ray discs for you. Subscription only!!!!
Nap. :o
-
lol.... never happen. Unless the U.S. and their sh@#ty ideas on the internet get their way.
Ya know, werd, if I had a disagreement with something Canadians were doing I would find a more constuctive way to advance the disagreement. Insulting other member's countires is not a good way to maintain a friendly discourse.
Thanks in advance,
Bill
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Ya know, werd, if I had a disagreement with something Canadians were doing I would find a more constuctive way to advance the disagreement. Insulting other member's countires is not a good way to maintain a friendly discourse.
Thanks in advance,
Bill
I wish it were only that, but unfortunately what your government/comcast are trying to achieve is scary and very real.
And they are trying to push it on the rest of the world. Here is how it will look if they get their way.
Instead of paying for internet montly and getting free access to everything. You will be charged an access fee from an ip provider. And that access fee will grant free access to lets
say 5 sites....lol thats right. After that you have to pay as you go. And if the ip doesnt like the site its a no go.
This is your country not mine. So you guys need to change that or quit making everyone else trying to jump on.
Like i said the U.S had nothing short 3rd world internet until recently and now they are getting decent connects, so that some how equates that everyone has to jump on their crazy notions of what the internet should be.
-
Hi Guys,
i think this discussion is becoming 'political' which as we all know is a NO-NO on this discussion board. :nono:
Please lets get back to beating me up over the Bryston Digital Player idea. :cry:
james
-
Ok :thumb:
-
Hi James
Any chance of changing it to?,
Brystons Magnificent Hi-Werd length Emporium player
-
Hi James
Any chance of changing it to?,
Brystons Magnificent Hi-Werd length Emporium player
:surrender: Done!
-
Please lets get back to beating me up over the Bryston Digital Player idea. :cry:
Nah, we're not beating you up, we're trying to be useful and bring up all sort of (potential) issues just in case Bryston missed some.... :angel:
Sometimes it may look confrontational but that just adds some spice to the conversation :lol:
Nap. :thumb:
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Just remembered.... that since you will be using Linux on the BDP-1.... you'll be subjected to the GPL style licenses.... http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html)....
Are you prepared to hear about BDP-1 software "mods"? Will you encourage this, be neutral, or discourage (Tivo style)?
Nap. :thumb:
-
I'm already thinking of some mods to add tone controls & DSP effects.
Think about it guys. It would be the first time you could have tone controls on a Bryston :icon_twisted:
Nap. :eyebrows:
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Just remembered.... that since you will be using Linux on the BDP-1.... you'll be subjected to the GPL style licenses.... http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html)....
Are you prepared to hear about BDP-1 software "mods"? Will you encourage this, be neutral, or discourage (Tivo style)?
Nap. :thumb:
Hi Nap:
Our approach has been to lock down the system to ensure it will start.
It has been propose that we could offer an unlocked version as well with notes to users interested in playing with it for a fee (to cover the cf card and handling), with the proviso that if you toast it you’re on their own- and that the locked version will plug in and work . Further that we want people to contribute back any improvements they make?
james
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Hi Nap:
Our approach has been to lock down the system to ensure it will start.
It has been propose that we could offer an unlocked version as well with notes to users interested in playing with it for a fee (to cover the cf card and handling), with the proviso that if you toast it you’re on their own- and that the locked version will plug in and work . Further that we want people to contribute back any improvements they make?
james
If your software engineers provide an easy way to play with it - like some hooks so I could easily insert my own software modules in the playback chain - I would definitely be interested in the hackable version (losing warranty of course).
The first thing I would try to do would be a real-time on-the-fly upsampling module. So I could for example see how Bezier curves could work instead of using the built-in upsampling in the BDA-1.
The "hackers" are actually bound by the same GPL license. Most likely they will contribute their work back - at least for show off reasons.
IMHO the code itself that Bryston puts together would be pretty much useless without the underlying hardware. Since you are into selling the hardware not the software, it won't matter for sales if the software is open sourced or not.
Nap. :thumb:
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Just remembered - there are CDs that actually don't have "pauses" between multiple tracks. It's just one long continuous soundtrack and the TOC directs the player to different locations inside it.
What happens when we rip them for the BDP-1? If we rip the whole CD as one big wav file, will the BDP be able to understand a .cue file in the same folder?
If we rip in smaller .wav files, there would be some discontinuities (pauses/clicks/whatever) when the player jumps from one to the next one?
Would it be able to understand an audio CD ripped as an ISO file?
Nap.
-
Just remembered - there are CDs that actually don't have "pauses" between multiple tracks. It's just one long continuous soundtrack and the TOC directs the player to different locations inside it.
What happens when we rip them for the BDP-1? If we rip the whole CD as one big wav file, will the BDP be able to understand a .cue file in the same folder?
If we rip in smaller .wav files, there would be some discontinuities (pauses/clicks/whatever) when the player jumps from one to the next one?
Would it be able to understand an audio CD ripped as an ISO file?
Nap.
Hi Nap - not sure what your asking - nothing gets ripped to the Player - you rip the CD to your computer?
james
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Hi Nap - not sure what your asking - nothing gets ripped to the Player - you rip the CD to your computer?
james
Agreed, Sir! So let's say I'm ripping them on a PC using EAC. Then I'm copying the files to a HD and connect the HD to the BDP-1 via USB. I think this is one of the standard ways to use the BDP-1.
Let's talk about EAC for now and the format we chose is .wav.
I can click on two buttons to rip the files.
The first one on the left vertical bar says WAV and it will rip each track as a separate .wav file. Now the problem is that if I rip something like Pink Floyd "Wish You Were Here", where there is no pause (silence) between tracks, when I play them back I could get pauses (silences) added by the media player (computer, mp3 player or whatever).
Then there's the other button that says IMG. That's the interesting one. As it will rip the whole album as a single huge .WAV file, then save the CD TOC in a .cue file. So you can play the .wav file without interruptions. But you can also have "track fwd" based on the .cue file.
So my question would be if the BDP-1 will be able to understand and use pairs of .wav/.cue files as produced by EAC.
I'm attaching a screenshot where you can see the buttons and also for the pleasure of displaying some irreverent track titles :icon_twisted: Just in case you guys have any doubt, I do NOT listen to classical music only :eyebrows:
(http://)
Nap. :icon_twisted:
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Nap - are these the type of issues you are talking about? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80929.0
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Nap - are these the type of issues you are talking about? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80929.0
I believe so. My personal solution is to rip the whole CD as a single huge wav file. But then I'm lucky - my Sony mp3 player can deal with it nicely.
(http://)
BTW any other guys here that use uncompressed audio with their portable mp3 players?
Nap. :thumb:
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I've just registered the "Brystube" trademark. :lol:
You guys watch out for the Napalm Brystube software module that will real-time process the BDP-1 output to give you that euphonic tube sound through your SS gear :eyebrows:
James is opening Pandora's box :icon_twisted:
Nap. :thumb:
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Hi Nap:
Our approach has been to lock down the system to ensure it will start.
It has been propose that we could offer an unlocked version as well with notes to users interested in playing with it for a fee (to cover the cf card and handling), with the proviso that if you toast it you’re on their own- and that the locked version will plug in and work . Further that we want people to contribute back any improvements they make?
james
:icon_lol: This is how Macintosh started out... totally hackable, you guys are going to end up like Macintosh are ya? TTL control freaks....
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........ Now the problem is that if I rip something like Pink Floyd "Wish You Were Here", where there is no pause (silence) between tracks, when I play them back I could get pauses (silences) added by the media player (computer, mp3 player or whatever).
Then there's the other button that says IMG. That's the interesting one. As it will rip the whole album as a single huge .WAV file, then save the CD TOC in a .cue file. So you can play the .wav file without interruptions. But you can also have "track fwd" based on the .cue file.
So my question would be if the BDP-1 will be able to understand and use pairs of .wav/.cue files as produced by EAC.
EAC has options for gap control - even to ignore the gaps (under pull-down Action / Leave out GAPS).
Read about EAC gap detection and cue sheets here (http://users.fulladsl.be/spb2267/) (click on GAPS and CUE sheets).
I doubt the BDP will read cue sheets.
Why are you using WAV, when Flac is smaller and the same quality?
brucek
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[...]
Why are you using WAV, when Flac is smaller and the same quality?
brucek
Because it's pretty much universal and available storage space is huge and cheap these days.
Nap. :thumb:
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:icon_lol: This is how Macintosh started out... totally hackable, you guys are going to end up like Macintosh are ya? TTL control freaks....
The only valid reason to lock it down is if you want to deal with DRM/copy protected material. Like the PS3. You don't want to have a mod that saves blu-ray games and movies on the local hard disk.
But then the BDP-1 has nothing to do with protecting DRM material, so why not? Gets good PR too these days :thumb:
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Because it's pretty much universal and available storage space is huge and cheap these days.
Nap. :thumb:
Fair enough, but your fingers must be numb from manually entering song information, since wav doesn't support embedded tags.
brucek
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Fair enough, but your fingers must be numb from manually entering song information, since wav doesn't support embedded tags.
brucek
The associated .cue files can store some of that information. But then I don't care much about album art and so on. Just the music is fine for me :thumb:
Nap.
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I believe so. My personal solution is to rip the whole CD as a single huge wav file. But then I'm lucky - my Sony mp3 player can deal with it nicely.
(http://)
BTW any other guys here that use uncompressed audio with their portable mp3 players?
Nap. :thumb:
Wow Nap, can't believe you bag out on Mac and then buy a Sony. Sony are far worse than Mac in being underhanded. Remember the Systems internal rookit fiascol?.
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That's what's holding me back. If I rip everything to HD there might be a rootkit in a cd I don't know about. Which will eventually make the computer unusable. If it infects a 2 TB drive I would :bawl:, after the 2 months work to rip everything.
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That's what's holding me back. If I rip everything to HD there might be a rootkit in a cd I don't know about. Which will eventually make the computer unusable. If it infects a 2 TB drive I would :bawl:, after the 2 months work to rip everything.
2 months is quick. Granted, I took selected songs from most CDs (since I put them in WMA lossless and then compress them for my Zune and wanted to make sure I had space on the Zune) but it took me almost a year to put 4,300 songs on a hard drive in between doing everything else. If I just ripped everything I probably could have done it in a third the time. But you're absolutely correct in that no one wants to lose lots of work. It also makes me a little reluctant to buy an expensive digital player. $2k can buy a lot of software to listen to on the Bryston DAC and have a substantial portion of the quality.
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Wow Nap, can't believe you bag out on Mac and then buy a Sony. Sony are far worse than Mac in being underhanded. Remember the Systems internal rookit fiascol?.
It's not that I didn't try. I got an iPod Nano first. It took me a couple of days to realize that their EQ is flawed and results in severe clipping. Then I found out that it was a very old issue that Apple knew of and couldn't care less. And there was no hope that they will ever fix. See here:
http://forums.ilounge.com/archive/index.php/t-51747.html (http://forums.ilounge.com/archive/index.php/t-51747.html)
So here goes the Nano back to Futureshop. And my computer gets liberated from iTunes too.
If you want Napalm's review of the two, here it is: out of the box with the included headphones the Sony sounds vastly better. If you replace the headphones with some big cans the Sony still sounds vastly better. They cost about the same. So why feed Steve.
We need a 30 days return policy for CDs too.
Nap. :thumb:
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That's what's holding me back. If I rip everything to HD there might be a rootkit in a cd I don't know about. Which will eventually make the computer unusable. If it infects a 2 TB drive I would :bawl:, after the 2 months work to rip everything.
http://www.free-av.de/ (http://www.free-av.de/)
1. It's free.
2. It will disable any crap that tries to auto-run from CDs or other external media.
Otherwise you can do it the professional way. Have a cheap computer dedicated to dirty things. Save an image of its hard drive as it comes when brand new. Then do whatever you need to and after it's done re-image the HD.
Nap. :thumb:
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2 months is quick. Granted, I took selected songs from most CDs (since I put them in WMA lossless and then compress them for my Zune and wanted to make sure I had space on the Zune) but it took me almost a year to put 4,300 songs on a hard drive in between doing everything else. If I just ripped everything I probably could have done it in a third the time. But you're absolutely correct in that no one wants to lose lots of work. It also makes me a little reluctant to buy an expensive digital player. $2k can buy a lot of software to listen to on the Bryston DAC and have a substantial portion of the quality.
When I ripped my 300 cd collection to my 200 gig HD. I was at it for 2 straight weeks.It became very tedious after awhile couldn't wait till I was finished. I estimate 1500 cds would take 2 solid months sitting at the computer after work. However that was on a slower older computer.
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Re: Music Server
« Reply #163 on: Today at 02:58 PM »
* Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: AGP on Today at 11:43 AM
Hi all,
I have been following this thread with much interest. :drool:
Question? If you place a complete album on a thumb drive will it be possible to play the music file directly without a hand-held remote like Itouch etc?
Hi,
We are working on some ideas on that to see what can be done. By the way we changed this thread to the Bryston Digital Music Player as the music server heading is misleading.
james
Logged
James Tanner
V/P Bryston
Thanks James
I will have a read and catch up, Maybe you should lock the old thread?
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Hi james
Will there be any software updates need to the BDA1 so to connect to the BDP1, and if so when will they be available?
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Hi james
Will there be any software updates need to the BDA1 so to connect to the BDP1, and if so when will they be available?
Hi Werd,
No software changes needed.
james
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Hi james
What will your S/N like, Are you starting from 001?
Lorne
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Hi james
What will your S/N like, Are you starting from 001?
Lorne
Yes new products we use 6 digits starting at 000001
james
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James, have you had any opportunity to test the BDP playing music via NFS mounts ?
Cheers
Scott
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James, have you had any opportunity to test the BDP playing music via NFS mounts ?
Cheers
Scott
Hi Scott,
NFS (no friggen sound) mounts?
james
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Hi Scott,
NFS (no friggen sound) mounts?
james
I guess this is what Scott is talking about? http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/s1-nfs-mount.html
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James,
One of your earlier post about the BDP-1 indicated that would play files from either a USB drive or an NFS mount/fileshare perhaps from a NAS. I believe in later discussions you've also said that the NAS or fileshare portion might not be there. (i.e. assuming because not many NAS boxes support NFS these days)
I believe this sums up his question and perhaps answers it as well.
Jim
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James,
One of your earlier post about the BDP-1 indicated that would play files from either a USB drive or an NFS mount/fileshare perhaps from a NAS. I believe in later discussions you've also said that the NAS or fileshare portion might not be there. (i.e. assuming because not many NAS boxes support NFS these days)
I believe this sums up his question and perhaps answers it as well.
Jim
Yep that would be it, did not see the later post stating it may be delayed.
Thanks guys.
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Since Werd complained that I'm not active any more in this thread.... here it is, food for thought:
http://www.canadahifi.com/comments.php?id_entry=940 (http://www.canadahifi.com/comments.php?id_entry=940)
Nap. :thumb:
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Since Werd complained that I'm not active any more in this thread.... here it is, food for thought:
http://www.canadahifi.com/comments.php?id_entry=940 (http://www.canadahifi.com/comments.php?id_entry=940)
Nap. :thumb:
Looks nice but for $3200 i am payng for another computer. Not really interested in storage and clocking in one device. But it looks slick.
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Mhhhh I still like the CD format, but according to this, James is right and download is the way to go:
http://www.bukisa.com/articles/236315_the-future-of-digital-and-physical-album-sales-in-the-music-industry (http://www.bukisa.com/articles/236315_the-future-of-digital-and-physical-album-sales-in-the-music-industry)
So, what's the status of the BDP????? Any news that could make us :drool:?
Thanks,
Nap.
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Mhhhh I still like the CD format, but according to this, James is right and download is the way to go:
What's to like?
On the fly reading with interpolation and embedded DAC vs. guaranteed source file that doesn't change, and your choice of DAC.
If you want photography and graphics, there is always vinyl...
Or HD Tracks which has the liner notes and photos as part of the download.
Massive numbers of jewel cases to be housed and dusted vs. a hard disk/NAS spinning quietly out of the way.
Time to move on.
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^^^^^
Hi Nap,
BDP-1 - Have 2 prototypes built and boy they sound great even if I do say so myself! Anyway we are working on some of the suggestions offered by the fine folks on Audiocircle to see if we can satisfy both the Luddites and the Propellerheads :lol:
james
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Luddites -->>> :drool:
Nap. :thumb:
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What's to like?
On the fly reading with interpolation and embedded DAC vs. guaranteed source file that doesn't change, and your choice of DAC.
If you want photography and graphics, there is always vinyl...
Or HD Tracks which has the liner notes and photos as part of the download.
Massive numbers of jewel cases to be housed and dusted vs. a hard disk/NAS spinning quietly out of the way.
Time to move on.
Whanafi - I feel comfortable with purchasing it on CD for several reasons:
- you can buy them cash; no VISA number across the internet to some shop that can't keep it secure.
- you can sell or give them away as a gift
- you can lend some of them to your friends (not your whole collection PC included)
- you keep them as a backup after you rip them
This is purchase related. Otherwise I agree that for playback HD is the way to go. (there was a thread started by Mag where I gave 4 good reasons for using HD based playback).
Nap. :thumb:
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Can't disagree that using payment on the net is always a risk. I went 15 years without a problem, and it was HD Tracks that broke the streak. I try and keep one card just for online so that it is obvious when something goes wrong.
With the death of physical shops, one is pretty much forced to shop online even for physical media.
The whole issue of changing cultural standards for gift giving is for another thread - pre-paid or gift cards are one manifestation.
We talked about CD life span before - I would rather back up data than rely on a piece of plastic with a layer than can oxidize.
As they say, vive la difference and YMMV.
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Hello James
I guess the idea is to stack the BDP ontop of the BDA. Are you going to manufacturer the Bdp's outputs right above the matching BDA's inputs?. I understand its beneficial to relock as close to the dac as possible. And that would mean a connect as short as possible.
Would you consider a proprietary cable to do this in xlr?This would be shorter than even a .5 mtr xlr and would need to be somewhat propriertary because of this.
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Hello James
I guess the idea is to stack the BDP ontop of the BDA. Are you going to manufacturer the Bdp's outputs right above the matching BDA's inputs?. I understand its beneficial to relock as close to the dac as possible. And that would mean a connect as short as possible.
Would you consider a proprietary cable to do this in xlr?This would be shorter than even a .5 mtr xlr and would need to be somewhat propriertary because of this.
Hi werd,
Not sure I understand - there is no reclocking between the BDP-1 and the BDA-1. There is an XLR and a BNC digital out on the BDP-1 which is then fed to the DAC of your choice.
james
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Hi werd,
Not sure I understand - there is no reclocking between the BDP-1 and the BDA-1. There is an XLR and a BNC digital out on the BDP-1 which is then fed to the DAC of your choice.
james
Hi James
Does the BDP reclock the signal to the BDA once it converted from USB?
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Hi James
Does the BDP reclock the signal to the BDA once it converted from USB?
Have to check with engineering on that one.
james
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Hi James
Does the BDP reclock the signal to the BDA once it converted from USB?
Since the USB drive only acts as a storage device and not an audio device the BDP-1 will regenerate the clocked based on the data stored within a music file. Pretty much the same way a computer would work with an AES/BNC outputs running on a USB drive.
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Hi James,
2 questions, do you have a better idea of a release date for the player? And secondly, are there any requirements with regards to the NAS drive. I am going to be buying one but wanted to make sure it will be compatible with the player when it is released.
Thanks!
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Hi James,
2 questions, do you have a better idea of a release date for the player? And secondly, are there any requirements with regards to the NAS drive. I am going to be buying one but wanted to make sure it will be compatible with the player when it is released.
Thanks!
Hi -my hope is this summer for the player and I will ask about the NAS drive. We are thinking about another box that would add storage and 'be seen' instantly by the BDP-1 on the network.
james
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How about an iPod dock? :eyebrows:
:peek:
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Hi -my hope is this summer for the player and I will ask about the NAS drive. We are thinking about another box that would add storage and 'be seen' instantly by the BDP-1 on the network.
james
PLEASE don't become one of those companies that packages inexpensive electronics in a heavy metal case then marks it up 1000%. There is no need for Bryston to be in the NAS business, nor can it hope to compete with the features and pricing driven by the storage industry. Disk is cheap, subject to failiure, and replaceable - not the characteristics one thinks of as Bryston.
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PLEASE don't become one of those companies that packages inexpensive electronics in a heavy metal case then marks it up 1000%. There is no need for Bryston to be in the NAS business, nor can it hope to compete with the features and pricing driven by the storage industry. Disk is cheap, subject to failiure, and replaceable - not the characteristics one thinks of as Bryston.
If they go for a RAID 1 box based on 2.5" drives with no fans it could be a winner. There's no such thing on the market, they're all 3.5".
Nap.
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PLEASE don't become one of those companies that packages inexpensive electronics in a heavy metal case then marks it up 1000%. There is no need for Bryston to be in the NAS business, nor can it hope to compete with the features and pricing driven by the storage industry. Disk is cheap, subject to failiure, and replaceable - not the characteristics one thinks of as Bryston.
Hi = I was thinking that as solid state storage becomes more inexpensive that might be an option moving forward to offer some in-room local storage? i agree we do not want to be in the NAS business.
james
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Hi = I was thinking that as solid state storage becomes more inexpensive that might be an option moving forward to offer some in-room local storage? i agree we do not want to be in the NAS business.
james
Hi James,
Does this mean that we could hope that the BDP-1 would have a tray (a la PS3) so we could install an internal 2.5" SATA device such as a HD or SSD???
If true, then all that I can say is :thankyou: :bowdown: :hyper: :bounce:
Nap.
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Hi James,
Does this mean that we could hope that the BDP-1 would have a tray (a la PS3) so we could install an internal 2.5" SATA device such as a HD or SSD???
If true, then all that I can say is :thankyou: :bowdown: :hyper: :bounce:
Nap.
Sorry no tray - I was thinking this would be an external box to match the BDP-1 and the BDA-1 and have solid state storage.
james
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Wouldn't the whole thing grow a little bit too big with 3 boxes?
:scratch: [Napalm goes downstairs with a tape ruler to measure furniture] :scratch:
Nap.
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3 is a lot of boxes. Years back Verizon attempted (prior to FIOS) a video demand service that required 3 set top boxes. Didn't fare to well for a $100M+ investment.
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Yes 2 would even be too much. I think you should just stick with the orig plan, single box with xlr and rca out. No display or a small rudimentary display that can help orient you with a flash. ( that can be turned off )
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Ideally I would want to see a BDP-1 that can take an optional DAC board inside. I can live with an external 2.5" HD connected by USB, doesn't take much space and is portable. But if we're contemplating 3 boxes then I would also be looking at the Luxa2 HTPC boxes. It's amazing what you could do with < $1000 and a screwdriver.
nap. :thumb:
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Oh and an XLR jumper between the the bdp and bda for close proximity from clock to dac. :thumb:
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Hi = I was thinking that as solid state storage becomes more inexpensive that might be an option moving forward to offer some in-room local storage? i agree we do not want to be in the NAS business.
james
I agree the NAS business could/would be a support nightmare. However if your engineers, are looking for NAS devices to test the BDP-1 againest i would suggest a host with freenas installed as a starting point. if your engineers are interested I could fire them off a pre-configured Freenas host for a couple of months. It's a Koolu fanless unit twice the size of pack of cigs w a 60g hard drive.
Cheers,
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Hi Folks,
Ok still experimenting but it looks like we may be able to offer a 2-line display and a set of control buttons on the front of the BDP-1 Digital Player (Play, Pause, Stop, Next, Previous) as well as basic remote functions using the BR2 remote (Play,Pause,Stop,Next,Previous).
Do you think we should offer 2 versions - one with the extras and one without?
james
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Dunno, James. Is the display dimmable? :eyebrows:
Just kidding.
I wouldn't consider one without BR2/display at all.
Nap.
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Hi Folks,
Ok still experimenting but it looks like we may be able to offer a 2-line display and a set of control buttons on the front of the BDP-1 Digital Player (Play, Pause, Stop, Next, Previous) as well as basic remote functions using the BR2 remote (Play,Pause,Stop,Next,Previous).
Do you think we should offer 2 versions - one with the extras and one without?
james
I had an interesting call earlier today with Bell about different internet packages. The representative informed me that I could chose this package or that package or perhaps something different with another package.
“Why do you not make it much simpler and offer the top package to everyone for a much lower price and then everyone would subscribe to it.” I replied.
“Oh sir, but people would not want this.” Was the sales representatives reply :roll:
Be well...
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One unit with the display, I think everyone will appreciate the visual feedback when pushing buttons on the display especially when things go wrong. A dimming feature would be nice as well for those who don't want the visual noise.
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One unit with the display, I think everyone will appreciate the visual feedback, especially when things go wrong. A dimming feature would be nice as well.
It would have a feature to turn off the display if not required.
james
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I think everyone will appreciate the visual feedback when pushing buttons on the display especially when things go wrong.
Actually this is big. It should have some status and diagnostics messages so you could figure out things.
Nap.
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It would have a feature to turn off the display if not required.
james
A feature that I enjoy on my CD player is the ability to dim the display with 3 progressive lighting selections - and also to shut it off. The display will only turn on if you make a selection on the remote and automatically turn itself off again.
:thumb:
Be well...
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It would have a feature to turn off the display if not required.
james
Call that "Pure Direct" or "Pure Sound" mode :jester:
Sorry couldn't refrain....
Nap. :lol:
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BR-2 controlable,display,works for me :thumb:..
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There are several reasons why current music servers just fail, but the biggest complaint I have is the user interface. Most are pretty horrendous, and a two-line display with perhaps ten's of thousands of songs, hundreds of playlists, genres, artists and albums can be very cumbersome if that was used to select music to play.
I do like the idea of the extra control with the remote and buttons, but what exactly will the display show? File tag information of current song, selected playlist, file format, bit rate, network IP address, etc? There's not much you can show that would be that useful here is there? I expect most will just either use the web interface or an iPod to control it.
If the key concern is folks resistance to purchasing a $200 iPod touch or to use a computer as the remote there are other "MPod" controlling devices out there. Perhaps a custom Bryston remote would be more desirable which could provide the features of the iPod touch to control the BDP-1, but also extended to control other Bryston gear.
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There are several reasons why current music servers just fail, but the biggest complaint I have is the user interface. Most are pretty horrendous, and a two-line display with perhaps ten's of thousands of songs, hundreds of playlists, genres, artists and albums can be very cumbersome if that was used to select music to play.
I do like the idea of the extra control with the remote and buttons, but what exactly will the display show? File tag information of current song, selected playlist, file format, bit rate, network IP address, etc? There's not much you can show that would be that useful here is there? I expect most will just either use the web interface or an iPod to control it.
If the key concern is folks resistance to purchasing a $200 iPod touch or to use a computer as the remote there are other "MPod" controlling devices out there. Perhaps a custom Bryston remote would be more desirable which could provide the features of the iPod touch to control the BDP-1, but also extended to control other Bryston gear.
I'd have to concur. User interface is important.
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Hi Folks,
Ok still experimenting but it looks like we may be able to offer a 2-line display and a set of control buttons on the front of the BDP-1 Digital Player (Play, Pause, Stop, Next, Previous) as well as basic remote functions using the BR2 remote (Play,Pause,Stop,Next,Previous).
Do you think we should offer 2 versions - one with the extras and one without?
james
HI
just give me one that will get 48/96/192 off my laptop. Everything else would be just a waist of money. All these additives can be had from a music player, totally pointless imo to pay for it.
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HI
just give me one that will get 48/96/192 off my laptop. Everything else would be just a waist of money. All these additives can be had from a music player, totally pointless imo to pay for it.
Sure. All you need is an optical cable to connect it to the BDA-1.
Did I understand correctly that the whole purpose of this new box was to *replace* a laptop with something rugged and silent?
Nap. :dunno:
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^^^^
Nope, idea is to get hirez off your computer or HD. It is my understanding that converting from usb and reclocking is best done away from any storage device and OS.
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Hi Folks,
Yes the intent of the BDP-1 is that it typically would be used on a network with a web browser as an interface or Itouch, Ipad etc. (lots more of these devices coming). So playlists and music management would be managed using the aforementioned interfaces under most circumstances.
The advantage of the 2 line display and front panel interface or BR-2 remote features is that you do not have to be on the network to operate the BDP-1 player. You just power it up - connect it to a DAC (BDA-1) - plug in a USB thumbdrive or harddrive - and press PLAY. The 2 line display would show Song and Artist and would allow for some minor scrolling through the current attached song playlists. It is not meant to replace a full fledged music management system of which there are plenty out there (ex MINION). Also we are working on our own 'Bryston web music browser' to interface with the BDP-1.
Again think of it as a CD Player but using USB drives instead of CD's. So the typical music server out there now would be more like a CD Jukebox and the BDA-1 would be more like a single disc CD Player.
james
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Hi James,
Here's something to test it with:
http://www.amazon.com/Beatles-USB/dp/B002VH7P4O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1274957203&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Beatles-USB/dp/B002VH7P4O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1274957203&sr=8-1)
Ideally one should be able to buy this, connect it to BDP-1 and voila music plays (without preliminary messing with a computer, eh?)
Nap. :thumb:
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^^^^
[1] idea is to get hirez off your computer
[2] or HD.
[1] that's easily and effectively achieved with an optical cable
[2] now we're talking.
Nap. :thumb:
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Mhhh.... let's think about a plain one for a while (no display no buttons no BR2). Wouldn't this be perceived as yet another iPod accessory????
Or maybe this actually would be a good idea:
Scenario1
Salesman: And here we have the Bryston disk player, a network enabled media player for hi rez files such as FLAC
Client: :scratch:
Scenario2
Salesman: And here we have this great iPod accessory that will enable it to play uncompressed and hi-rez files
Client: :drool:
Nap. :dunno:
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James
Would you consider a 'base' version with display and control buttons only and a version with display and control buttons and built in DAC (AKA the BCD-1) for folks who only want single source in system without additional expense of external DAC ...
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James
Would you consider a 'base' version with display and control buttons only and a version with display and control buttons and built in DAC (AKA the BCD-1) for folks who only want single source in system without additional expense of external DAC ...
Hi,
Maybe eventually an internal DAC but given the success of the BDA-1 and the fact that we want to optimize the 'processing' side of the digital file (there's only so much room available in the box) with the BDP-1 we will probably sell the 2 units as a package for the foreseeable future.
james
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Hi,
Maybe eventually an internal DAC but given the success of the BDA-1 and the fact that we want to optimize the 'processing' side of the digital file (there's only so much room available in the box) with the BDP-1 we will probably sell the 2 units as a package for the foreseeable future.
james
Hope this helps. I plan to get the BDA-1 this fall. There are some things that could change my mind till then:
- I go completely broke
- There is some other company announcing a product that suits me better
After that I will explore what the BDP-1 is and whether it makes more sense to buy it instead of a dedicated laptop.
Nap.
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Hi Nap,
The laptop idea will work fine (I have 3 of them) with our DAC but do not expect the same level of performance offered by the BDP-1.
james
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Hi Folks,
Yes the intent of the BDP-1 is that it typically would be used on a network with a web browser as an interface or Itouch, Ipad etc. (lots more of these devices coming). So playlists and music management would be managed using the aforementioned interfaces under most circumstances.
The advantage of the 2 line display and front panel interface or BR-2 remote features is that you do not have to be on the network to operate the BDP-1 player. You just power it up - connect it to a DAC (BDA-1) - plug in a USB thumbdrive or harddrive - and press PLAY. The 2 line display would show Song and Artist and would allow for some minor scrolling through the current attached song playlists. It is not meant to replace a full fledged music management system of which there are plenty out there (ex MINION). Also we are working on our own 'Bryston web music browser' to interface with the BDP-1.
Again think of it as a CD Player but using USB drives instead of CD's. So the typical music server out there now would be more like a CD Jukebox and the BDA-1 would be more like a single disc CD Player.
james
James is someone in Peterborough currently/planning on writing a iTouch/iPhone app for the BDP-1? Or would you leave this up to 3rd/interested parties?
Ipeng is an 3rd party app for the iTouch/iPhone, which acts as a remote control for the Squeezeserver. I actually prefer it to the $350 official Logitech remote control for the squeezeserver. Something to keep in mind.
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Hi Nap,
The laptop idea will work fine (I have 3 of them) with our DAC but do not expect the same level of performance offered by the BDP-1.
james
Hi James,
I understand that. And price would not be a deciding factor either, as a well made laptop with optical outputs and everything would go well beyond $1000 too. It would be mostly based on an assessment of user interface / usability for what I want to do. If the BDP-1 is awkward to use, then I'll be :scratch:
Nap. :thumb:
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James is someone in Peterborough currently/planning on writing a iTouch/iPhone app for the BDP-1? Or would you leave this up to 3rd/interested parties?
Ipeng is an 3rd party app for the iTouch/iPhone, which acts as a remote control for the Squeezeserver. I actually prefer it to the $350 official Logitech remote control for the squeezeserver. Something to keep in mind.
Hi,
Not sure on that yet. - I am using MPOD now and it works great on my Itouch with the prototype BDP-1. I am using Firefox and Minion as the web interface and it is excellent as well.
james
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:idea: LAPTOP :idea:
Now think about this. It has integrated wireless. I could make it automatically post in the "What are you currently listening to?" thread the cover of the album that plays.
PRICELESS!!!!
:tempted:
Nap the Spammer
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Hi,
Not sure on that yet. - I am using MPOD now and it works great on my Itouch with the prototype BDP-1. I am using Firefox and Minion as the web interface and it is excellent as well.
james
Very cool! I have not seen MPOD before.
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Trying to clarify my thoughts.... from my POV if it does what this does, except it does it from a 2.5" HD, then I'm happy as a pig in the mud.
(http://)
Nap. :P
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:idea: JOG/SHUTTLE WHEEL :idea:
Nap. :wave:
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I think a DAC option for the BDP-1 would be desirable to many and I think it would be smart option to offer if there's room in the box.
For me, I would rather have an internal HDD bay, so I don't have to have a USB HDD out in the open and deal with another wall wart. Of course, I'm not afraid to swap internal HDDs or even use the USB enclosures like Thermaltake's:(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066&cm_re=usb_hdd_enclosure-_-17-153-066-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066&cm_re=usb_hdd_enclosure-_-17-153-066-_-Product))
Since both the 2.5" and 3.5" drives now conform to mechanical connection standard you could make this real simple such that it can slide in from the back or a front slot and which could lock by shutting the door. This would be no different than enterprise server hardware HDD loading mechanism (Also used by the Mac Pro and Drobo External Drives). Potentially this would mostly be a mechanical change to the existing design. You could easily use a SATA->USB adapter to keep everything simple internally and stick to 2.5" drives that can be USB powered. Ideally you would want to use a 2.5" SSDs to minimize vibration and noise from the traditional HDDs.
This would just augment the front and rear USB ports along with the support for the NAS. And then I can switch between a thumbdrive, NAS, internal HDD or perhaps if my music collection gets truely out of control the USB drive with the wall wart.
Sadly though, I realize that my desire would be intimidating to the average user even though I think it would be rather easy to offer.
Jim
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:idea: JOG/SHUTTLE WHEEL :idea:
Nap. :wave:
Horrendous interface IMHO. I would rather have a single disc player than that thing....wait.. I do lol :)
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Sadly though, I realize that my desire would be intimidating to the average user even though I think it would be rather easy to offer.
Actually your desire is quite conservative. I've asked about the internal HD tray myself and I'm pretty much a Luddite.
Internal DAC would be nice too, however I can see some reasons for which a separate box makes sense (less EM noise near the analog stages, more flexibility).
Nap. :thumb:
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I think a DAC option for the BDP-1 would be desirable to many and I think it would be smart option to offer if there's room in the box.
For me, I would rather have an internal HDD bay, so I don't have to have a USB HDD out in the open and deal with another wall wart. Of course, I'm not afraid to swap internal HDDs or even use the USB enclosures like Thermaltake's:(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066&cm_re=usb_hdd_enclosure-_-17-153-066-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066&cm_re=usb_hdd_enclosure-_-17-153-066-_-Product))
Since both the 2.5" and 3.5" drives now conform to mechanical connection standard you could make this real simple such that it can slide in from the back or a front slot and which could lock by shutting the door. This would be no different than enterprise server hardware HDD loading mechanism (Also used by the Mac Pro and Drobo External Drives). Potentially this would mostly be a mechanical change to the existing design. You could easily use a SATA->USB adapter to keep everything simple internally and stick to 2.5" drives that can be USB powered. Ideally you would want to use a 2.5" SSDs to minimize vibration and noise from the traditional HDDs.
This would just augment the front and rear USB ports along with the support for the NAS. And then I can switch between a thumbdrive, NAS, internal HDD or perhaps if my music collection gets truely out of control the USB drive with the wall wart.
Sadly though, I realize that my desire would be intimidating to the average user even though I think it would be rather easy to offer.
Jim
Interesting idea! Might be a ESD risk for non technical folks installing the drive, and might be noisy for some people however . I have a fan-less NAS with 1TB 3.5" drive sitting in my stereo rack. At low volumes I can still here the drive occasionally. Might also be a electronic noise issue for Bryston to contend with as well. On the plus side it would relieve Bryston from any support issues regarding music media support . The drive would simply be considered a large memory stick which is the consumers responsibility . Bryston would have to support a method of moving music to the drive however, but that should not be too difficult.
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Mhhhh
http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/en_CA/DisplayProductDetailsPage/categoryID.27266200/parid.13092400/catid.13742300 (http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/en_CA/DisplayProductDetailsPage/categoryID.27266200/parid.13092400/catid.13742300)
Forget the TV part, look at audio.
Nap. :scratch:
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Mhhhh
http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/en_CA/DisplayProductDetailsPage/categoryID.27266200/parid.13092400/catid.13742300 (http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/en_CA/DisplayProductDetailsPage/categoryID.27266200/parid.13092400/catid.13742300)
Forget the TV part, look at audio.
Nap. :scratch:
But can it do hi-rez?
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Interesting idea! Might be a ESD risk for non technical folks installing the drive, and might be noisy for some people however . I have a fan-less NAS with 1TB 3.5" drive sitting in my stereo rack. At low volumes I can still here the drive occasionally. Might also be a electronic noise issue for Bryston to contend with as well. On the plus side it would relieve Bryston from any support issues regarding music media support . The drive would simply be considered a large memory stick which is the consumers responsibility . Bryston would have to support a method of moving music to the drive however, but that should not be too difficult.
If you did a 2.5" USB bus-powered SSD/HDD then it's really no different electrically compared to the external USB ports. But having a dedicated location to place the HDD would probably be better than just laying it on top of the box around sensitive circuits. I still think if Bryston offers another chassis for this, that would also be fine but then you wonder how many boxes you need to fire this thing up..
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But can it do hi-rez?
Don't think so. But you can take a look at the HD version which should. And I can bet there are some asian import boxes <$100 that will do that.
My point is that maybe the BDP-1 offers too little. Maybe it should go back to the drawing board. To have impressive, unbeatable performance it should integrate the DAC, and have a high precision clock that drives the DAC and synchronously feeds data to it from a RAM buffer.
As for now you just have a separate DAC box that tries it best to sync its clock via some PLL circuits. Did anyone mention jitter. Not that I really care but that's what reviewers will measure amongst other things.
Nap. :scratch:
P.S. Think BCD-1 except you put a 2.5" HD in the tray? :dunno:
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Don't think so. But you can take a look at the HD version which should. And I can bet there are some asian import boxes <$100 that will do that.
My point is that maybe the BDP-1 offers too little. Maybe it should go back to the drawing board. To have impressive, unbeatable performance it should integrate the DAC, and have a high precision clock that drives the DAC and synchronously feeds data to it from a RAM buffer.
As for now you just have a separate DAC box that tries it best to sync its clock via some PLL circuits. Did anyone mention jitter. Not that I really care but that's what reviewers will measure amongst other things.
Nap. :scratch:
P.S. Think BCD-1 except you put a 2.5" HD in the tray? :dunno:
I think the BDP-1 is the right product even without an internal DAC. I think pairing it with the BDA-1 or any pre-amp with an internal DAC is the best bang for the buck. I would also like to see the BCD-1 be offered as a transport and be below $2k but everyone will have different requirements in their system, so I do think offering an internal DAC for the BDP-1 is a smart move, just one that I won't select.
To me the biggest selling point of the BDP-1 is how simple the overall solution can be for hi-rez audio with an iPod Touch as a remote. I now don't need a traditional computer/laptop around my gear and yet I will gain all the conveniences they offer with music.
What i don't want is a solution that locks me into a certain file format or a chassis that I can't swap the HDD/SSDs because it's not a matter of if they fail but more when will they fail.
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Don't think so. But you can take a look at the HD version which should. And I can bet there are some asian import boxes <$100 that will do that.
My point is that maybe the BDP-1 offers too little. Maybe it should go back to the drawing board. To have impressive, unbeatable performance it should integrate the DAC, and have a high precision clock that drives the DAC and synchronously feeds data to it from a RAM buffer.
As for now you just have a separate DAC box that tries it best to sync its clock via some PLL circuits. Did anyone mention jitter. Not that I really care but that's what reviewers will measure amongst other things.
Nap. :scratch:
P.S. Think BCD-1 except you put a 2.5" HD in the tray? :dunno:
I have a unit made by "pop corn hour" does the same thing as WD unit in your URL but also streams HD (blu ray) at 1080p. It cost about $250 i think.
In regards to the comment about doing too little, I think we are missing the point, Bryston's mandate for the product has always been to do one thing, play music, but do it very well.
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James
Why dont you just build em a computer that says Bryston on the side. So then can send emails and play WOW on it and play some music and use their precious ipods and what ever other shit they can think of.
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James
Why dont you just build em a computer that says Bryston on the side. So then can send emails and play WOW on it and play some music and use their precious ipods and what ever other shit they can think of.
OK here's a sneak preview of the BDP-1:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=30897)
james
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:lol:
guess i'll be the only one buying it.......
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James
Why dont you just build em a computer that says Bryston on the side. So then can send emails and play WOW on it and play some music and use their precious ipods and what ever other shit they can think of.
He doesn't need to. Check this:
http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1007574&navigationPath=32009n100393 (http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1007574&navigationPath=32009n100393)
Click on Customize, on second customization page you can specify having "Bryston" engraved.
Nap. :thumb:
P.S. BTW this comes with Blu-Ray and SSD storage. All it needs is a good DAC :drool:
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OK here's a sneak preview of the BDP-1:
james
Do we get a Canadian model too?
(http://)
Nap. :icon_twisted:
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He doesn't need to. Check this:
http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1007574&navigationPath=32009n100393 (http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1007574&navigationPath=32009n100393)
Click on Customize, on second customization page you can specify having "Bryston" engraved.
Nap. :thumb:
P.S. BTW this comes with Blu-Ray and SSD storage. All it needs is a good DAC :drool:
I would go with a Mac pro before i bought that. Both made by scum so i would go with the more suitable unit.
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A mouse for Laundrew:
(http://)
Nap. :thumb:
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Both made by scum
:thumb:
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A player without a display is the same as the Slim Devices Duet.
I have one, and can use it because I am computer and network literate, but from buyer comments and forum entries, it is obvious that the majority of people just don't get a device that has no obvious moving parts and needs setting up over a network.
To those who are confusing an iPod Touch with a remote control, the application on the iPod is not generating RF or Bluetooth, or any other signal. It is running an application which "sees" the player across the Ethernet network, and sends commands to an IP address where an application receives them. iPeng is a good example of this, as is MPod (http://www.katoemba.net/makesnosenseatall/mpod/ (http://www.katoemba.net/makesnosenseatall/mpod/)) which James mentioned.
I still don't get the step up that a BDP-1 would give me. I don't want my music storage co-located with my audio equipment. I do want a display so I know what state the device is in, and I need a rich user interface to control the system as my collection is over 12K tracks. Which sounds like a lot, but is only 900 albums.
I am all for deconstructing things to optimized pieces, but the current Logitech Transporter, SqueezeCenter software, iPeng/iPod Touch combo has, and continues, to serve me as an ideal player. I have the Transporter connected to the BP26 as an analog source, and to the BDA-1 as a digital source. Only had one night to try things out, so can't comment on the difference yet.
I wouldn't want anything less than that, and losing the integration between the list management and server functions is just a step backward.
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:idea: LAPTOP :idea:
Now think about this. It has integrated wireless. I could make it automatically post in the "What are you currently listening to?" thread the cover of the album that plays.
PRICELESS!!!!
:tempted:
Nap the Spammer
Already exists. http://www.last.fm/ (http://www.last.fm/)
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I have the Transporter connected to the BP26 as an analog source, and to the BDA-1 as a digital source. Only had one night to try things out, so can't comment on the difference yet.
I'm all ears. BTW how's your 4B now?
Nap. :thumb:
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I picked up the 4BSST2 from the dealer the day I was leaving, so no chance to try out. On the road for a month.
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A player without a display is the same as the Slim Devices Duet.
I have one, and can use it because I am computer and network literate, but from buyer comments and forum entries, it is obvious that the majority of people just don't get a device that has no obvious moving parts and needs setting up over a network.
To those who are confusing an iPod Touch with a remote control, the application on the iPod is not generating RF or Bluetooth, or any other signal. It is running an application which "sees" the player across the Ethernet network, and sends commands to an IP address where an application receives them. iPeng is a good example of this, as is MPod (http://www.katoemba.net/makesnosenseatall/mpod/ (http://www.katoemba.net/makesnosenseatall/mpod/)) which James mentioned.
I still don't get the step up that a BDP-1 would give me. I don't want my music storage co-located with my audio equipment. I do want a display so I know what state the device is in, and I need a rich user interface to control the system as my collection is over 12K tracks. Which sounds like a lot, but is only 900 albums.
I am all for deconstructing things to optimized pieces, but the current Logitech Transporter, SqueezeCenter software, iPeng/iPod Touch combo has, and continues, to serve me as an ideal player. I have the Transporter connected to the BP26 as an analog source, and to the BDA-1 as a digital source. Only had one night to try things out, so can't comment on the difference yet.I wouldn't want anything less than that, and losing the integration between the list management and server functions is just a step backward.
Hi
Its imo that bdp1 is designed to effectively drive your BDA1 or any other dac. The problem with laptops
or computers (Lousy soundcards) is their inability to drive the bda to decent outputs (they sound weak). Laptops are especially weak through
their usb or optical. The BDP essential becomes the transport, where before a soundcard or laptop played
the transport role.
Think of it as a digital phono stage. Where a cartridge needs voltage gain to drive any preammp
the usb or optical needs the same treatment. And of course there is a whole bunch of electrical application
used to reduce jitter and keep the noise as low as possible. This is paramount when we start streaming
24 bit recordings.
I havent heard the BDP1 yet but i am sure that this unit is going to match the sonic capabilities of the
BDA1.
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[...]
To those who are confusing an iPod Touch with a remote control, the application on the iPod is not generating RF or Bluetooth, or any other signal. It is running an application which "sees" the player across the Ethernet network, and sends commands to an IP address where an application receives them.
[...]
Let me get this straight: if I don't have a laptop connected to the BDP-1, I cannot use the iPod as a remote?
Nap. :scratch:
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[...] And of course there is a whole bunch of electrical application
used to reduce jitter and keep the noise as low as possible. [...]
Mhhhh.... for the lowest jitter possible, shouldn't you have the DAC driven by the BDP clock? or the other way round? which means the DAC should be part of the BDP-1?
Nap. :dunno:
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Let me get this straight: if I don't have a laptop connected to the BDP-1, I cannot use the iPod as a remote?
Nap. :scratch:
Whether if it's a wire, IR, RF, Bluetooth, Ethernet, the clap-on/clap-off :) or a stick I consider them all remote controls....if it's controlling something remotely lol
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Mhhhh.... for the lowest jitter possible, shouldn't you have the DAC driven by the BDP clock? or the other way round? which means the DAC should be part of the BDP-1?
Nap. :dunno:
Its called slaving, where the dac controls the bdp1, there needs to be a return ic to the bdp1 to control the bdp clock. (which there isnt). An all in one box is doable but not with gadgets like a display and crap that causes noise and interferance.
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An all in one box is doable but not with gadgets like a display and crap that causes noise and interferance.
There's a whole computer in there with CPU, RAM and everything. Compare that with a LCD display (that can be turned off) and front panel buttons, eh?
Nap.
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Its just Lynx sound card witha beefed up power supply (basically). You can start tying more crap in with the power supply but at a cost sonically and monetary. How much do you guys want to spend on this? .... $3K. Just look at the price of that Naim music server $3500 bucks with solid state. Forget it too much....
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Mhhh Laundrew is so quiet.... I guess he's busy working on his SDP-1:
(http://)
Nap. :shh:
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This has been a long and interesting thread. I think I have learned what the BDP-1 is to do and am going to try to explain it as I understand it. Please let me know what I am missing or have not understood.
Before I run down to the store to buy the first unit I need to do some preparation:
1. My music library must be contained on a USB Hard Drive which I will connect to the BDP by USB cable.
2. I must have an in-home network with a network cable run to the BDP-1's location. The network must have Wi Fi capability in order to access the BDP-1 and control it's attached music library by remote control.
3. For a remote control I will need an iphone, itouch, iPad, or laptop computer.
4. Must have a BDA-1 or other DAC.
So I run down and pick up the BDP-1 puppy and bring it home. I connect the hard drive and network cable to it and run the digital output to the BDA-1. I use the aforementioned remote control to connect to the BDP-1 by accessing its network address over the internet. Hopefully, this process will be easy through an ap developed by Bryston and I will be able to see the music library index and initiate the play of selected albums/playlists from the remote - an iPad would be perfect for this task. I then sit back and enjoy the sounds. I can also use the BR2 remote to pause, forward, back, stop the playback. The BDP-1's two line display will tell me what is being played which will be helpful when I am playing music from a thumbdrive and I can control that play with the BR2 and should also be able to control the thumbdrive play from the network if it is recognized.
Is this close??
Today, I am playing hi res (24/96) files using a laptop with Foobar interface, Bel Canto USB link 24/96 link and BDA-1. It works great but I don't like using the laptop, the interface is poor and there is no remote control.
Tony
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Hi Tony,
All the above is correct except with the display and remote functions we are building in to the BDP-1 you ‘DO NOT’ have to be on the network to play your songs. One of the issues I find frustrating with these network type products is all these hoops you have to navigate (find server, setup itouch etc.) before you get music.
So my idea is with using either the BR2 remote or the controls on the front panel of the BDP-1 digital payer you plug the BDP-1 into a power source … plug the Balanced or SPDIF output from the Bryston Digital Player into a an external DAC (preferably the BDA-1)… plug in your USB hard-drive(s) or thumb-drive(s) … hit PLAY and you have music. :thumb:
So you know at this point it all works :D and you can do some simple navigation of the USB drive(s) using the 2 line display and front panel controls so you can open folders and choose songs to play. Then you can invite your network savy 16 year old to help you get things running on your network when time permits.
James
PS - one thing I should point out is playing high-res files (96/24, 176/24 to 192/24) without issues (dropouts, hiccups etc) is not as simple as it sounds. The CPU and the Soundcard are critical in extracting as much quality and performance as possible.
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Definately make the display an option or the ability to turn off as I have no desire to use a two line display to fumble around looking for a song.
How will the web interface and iPod app work with a large external drive with thousands of artists on one external USB drive and another sixty artists on a 32gb USB thumb drive. Will it integrate both into the database or do you have to select an input?
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Definately make the display an option or the ability to turn off as I have no desire to use a two line display to fumble around looking for a song.
How will the web interface and iPod app work with a large external drive with thousands of artists on one external USB drive and another sixty artists on a 32gb USB thumb drive. Will it integrate both into the database or do you have to select an input?
Yes the display will be able to be turned on and off.
The whole point of the display is not to replace the normal data management system. The purpose is to allow some local control and non network access as part of the BDP-1 package. Maybe I am different but I usually load about 40-50 songs on my thumbdrive - hit play - turn out the lights and go through the playlist using previous or next on my remote depending on my mood. :D
james
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James,
Thanks for your response to my post -- your input is appreciated. I agree that use of the BR2 or front panel controls will work if you are dealing with a thumbdrive with 2 or 3 albums on it. However, it will not be acceptable for a hard drive with 2 or 3 hundred albums -- thus, the user will find it necessary to deal with the network issues and it should not require a programmer. I think that a simple and easy to use network interface will be crucial to acceptance of the BDA-1. For example, I have an Apple iMac and I can point the little plastic remote that came with an iPod at it, push menu and up comes an excellent interface to itunes totally controlled by that little remote. Of course, that comes with less than ideal sound quality because of the sound card and Apple imposed limitations on itunes sound quality. I know that Bryston will come up with outstanding sound quality on the BDP-1 but it is also important to not take a step backward in providing a simple, easy-to-use user interface.
Best regards,
Tony
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James,
Thanks for your response to my post -- your input is appreciated. I agree that use of the BR2 or front panel controls will work if you are dealing with a thumbdrive with 2 or 3 albums on it. However, it will not be acceptable for a hard drive with 2 or 3 hundred albums -- thus, the user will find it necessary to deal with the network issues and it should not require a programmer. I think that a simple and easy to use network interface will be crucial to acceptance of the BDA-1. For example, I have an Apple iMac and I can point the little plastic remote that came with an iPod at it, push menu and up comes an excellent interface to itunes totally controlled by that little remote. Of course, that comes with less than ideal sound quality because of the sound card and Apple imposed limitations on itunes sound quality. I know that Bryston will come up with outstanding sound quality on the BDA-1 but it is also important to not take a step backward in providing a simple, easy-to-use user interface.
Best regards,
Tony
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the input.
I use the itouch now and it works great and also the Minion web browser music player and it works great. Also there are more and more handheld and portable remotes coming on the market all the time.
james
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Yes the display will be able to be turned on and off.
The whole point of the display is not to replace the normal data management system. The purpose is to allow some local control and non network access as part of the BDP-1 package. Maybe I am different but I usually load about 40-50 songs on my thumbdrive - hit play - turn out the lights and go through the playlist using previous or next on my remote depending on my mood. :D
james
:thumb:
Nap.
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Yes the display will be able to be turned on and off.
The whole point of the display is not to replace the normal data management system. The purpose is to allow some local control and non network access as part of the BDP-1 package. Maybe I am different but I usually load about 40-50 songs on my thumbdrive - hit play - turn out the lights and go through the playlist using previous or next on my remote depending on my mood. :D
james
Never thought of it like that..... :scratch:. As it sits right now can you random or repeat with the flash?
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Never thought of it like that..... :scratch:. As it sits right now can you random or repeat with the flash?
Yes on the itouch you can use any of the controls available. So you can assemble playlists you can jump forward or back in the playlist - you can look at any folder and its contents - or look at all folders and their content - repeat play etc.
james
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Never thought of it like that..... :scratch:. As it sits right now can you random or repeat with the flash?
Well you can also see James demonstrating the product at CES.... and someone hands him the Beatles USB album.... he wouldn't want to be fumbling for 15 minutes with the web interface until he can make them tunes play, would he?
Insert :icon_arrow: press Play :icon_arrow: MUSIC!!!!
Nap. :thumb:
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Yes on the itouch you can use any of the controls available. So you can assemble playlists you can jump forward or back in the playlist - you can look at any folder and its contents - or look at all folders and their content - repeat play etc.
james
Hi
Will this unit stream flac?
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Hi
Will this unit stream flac?
No wireless streaming in the BDP-1
james
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Its called slaving, where the dac controls the bdp1, there needs to be a return ic to the bdp1 to control the bdp clock. (which there isnt). An all in one box is doable but not with gadgets like a display and crap that causes noise and interferance.
:scratch: :idea: How about a BDA-2 that provides a way to sync with the BDP? Throw in some goodies like selectable digital filters, add something to the price and here we go.
Nap. :thumb:
P.S. and a blue LED to indicate sync!!! :icon_twisted:
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I have been following this thread with much interest. As a satisfied owner of a Red Wine modded SB3, I know at some point its going to break or that a company is going to come up with a higher quality alternative to a file streamer. I use the term "file streamer" deliberately as I don't want a network streamer. I want a stand alone component(s) to use independently of a computer. A component that is dedicated to playing the highest quality bit perfect file extracted by EAC without the distraction of album art, alarm clock function, foot massager, or coffee brewer. If I want art, I'll hang a picture on the wall. At first I kind of rejected the concept of the BDP-1 as it dispensed with a built in, or external, display. How was one supposed to access the files for playing? As evidenced by the problems with the Squeezebox Touch, a built in display has its own problems. I would humbly offer the suggestion of an output such as S video, HMDI, or VGA so as to be able to use an external display. If the BDP-1 is to be the same footprint as the BDA-1, then even a 2 line display is going to be difficult to see from a realistic distance from the unit. An external display will relieve the BDP-1 from any RFI, EMI, and power supply contortions that might be necessary to support an internal LCD or other type readout. It will also allow the user to place an inexpensive display wherever most convenient via any length of cable the user defines.
I would also encourage Bryston to write a thorough tutorial for using EAC to encode files for use with the BCD-1 as well as the optimal tagging structure so the software on board does not choke on inadvertent mistakes. These are known problems with the Touch in "stand alone" mode.
Finally, I'd like to commend Bryston for being open to accept the suggestions of its customers to perfect future component releases. This puts Bryston at the head of the class in high end audio companies. Bravo!
EDIT: I mistakenly wrote BCD-1 instead of BDP-1 making this post incomprehensible. Corrected. My OCD and ADHD interfered with my CRS(can't remember stuff).
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Will the BDP-1 buffer before it sends it to the DAC?
Today I use a squeezebox (SB) connected to BDA-1 using digital cable. SB is connected to network using Ethernet cable but is downloading the music from a PC that is using wireless. Can BDA-1 do the same? Or do I need NAS connected to the BDA-1?
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Will the BDP-1 buffer before it sends it to the DAC?
Today I use a squeezebox (SB) connected to BDA-1 using digital cable. SB is connected to network using Ethernet cable but is downloading the music from a PC that is using wireless. Can BDA-1 do the same? Or do I need NAS connected to the BDA-1?
Hi StigO,
The BDP-1 uses a USB thumbdrive or USB harddrive (3 USB connection points - 1 on the front 2 on the back) connected to it directly. We are also looking at a NAS drive capability in the future.
james
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Do I understand correctly... there is no analog output?
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Do I understand correctly... there is no analog output?
Hi - correct - no analog output.
james
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Hi - correct - no analog output.
This is temporary. Until James figures out it would sell much better if it had a DAC of its own.
Nap. :thumb:
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This is temporary. Until James figures out it would sell much better if it had a DAC of its own.
Nap. :thumb:
No chance - no room in the box.
james
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No chance - no room in the box.
james
Make it deeper? Like a 4B or so?
I always hated that the BP6 is so short, I cannot sit the 4B on top of it. And sitting the BP6 on top of the 4B would obstruct cooling.
Nap. :thumb:
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Sounds like you started with an off-the-shelf sound card and either disabled the analog outs, chopped them off the card, or else didn't extend them to the backplane. Weird.
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Hi!
I'm am interested in this product. Is it possible to have a convolver on the player? I'm using foobar2k and digital room correction (DRC) with my existing system. http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net (http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net).
Br
Arne Strom
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Hi!
I'm am interested in this product. Is it possible to have a convolver on the player? I'm using foobar2k and digital room correction (DRC) with my existing system. http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net (http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net).
Br
Arne Strom
What is the purpose of this kind of room corrections? Trying to simulate audition in an anechoic room? If successful, it would sound awful.... :scratch:
Nap.
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What is the purpose of this kind of room corrections? Trying to simulate audition in an anechoic room? If successful, it would sound awful.... :scratch:
Nap.
Why the confusion; why would you assume it would create an anechoic response? That would be ridiculous. Digital room correction, when done right, is another tool to use (some say sparingly, others rely heavily) to address both the time and space issues of room problems. While simple EQ's can address the space issues (room nodes, etc) they often do so with brute force and try to do silly things like fill nulls, smear phase issues, etc. The better room correction software (assuming enough horsepower) produces better filtering than that, and also tries to address the important time domain as well (decay times, phase, RT60, waterfall plot kind of stuff). In an optimum WAF environment one would try their best to hold off on any digital EQ until they've exhausted all physical room treatments and speaker placement options....but sometimes those options are not presented. Many multi-purpose problematic "living room with open kitchen access" listening rooms have improved dramatically through the use of digital room correction. And no, NAP, they don't sound like anechoic chambers....that would suck (pun intended).
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I know how they sound.... my question is.... what is their ultimate goal? Trying to emulate what? If it's not an anechoic room, then what it is?
Nap. :scratch:
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I know how they sound.... my question is.... what is their ultimate goal? Trying to emulate what? If it's not an anechoic room, then what it is?
Nap. :scratch:
Nap, I think we should take this to another thread.
Back to the convolver; I would assume the BDP-1, or any hardware music player, would not include DRC functionality, but would leave that up to the software side, embedded in the music file (like replay gain, etc). Insert a USB thumb drive with "fixed" music.
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Nap, I think we should take this to another thread.
Back to the convolver; I would assume the BDP-1, or any hardware music player, would not include DRC functionality, but would leave that up to the software side, embedded in the music file (like replay gain, etc). Insert a USB thumb drive with "fixed" music.
This thread is fine :wink: when you say "correct something" than you are correcting in respect to a reference. With an EQ the reference is a "flat frequency response" and you are "correcting" in order to get close to that reference. In case of "room corrections" like in time domain, first response correction, etc. what is the reference? :dunno:
As for the BDP-1, it's just a transport, I've never seen "room corrections" built in a CD player either.... but.... James has alluded that they are considering a hackable version where you can add your own software modules.... which would make this possible.... at your own risk of course....
Nap. :thumb:
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Hi!
I intended not to start an discussion on DRC, I only wanted to ad a nice functionality to the BDP-1.
Br
Arne
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I know how they sound.... my question is.... what is their ultimate goal? Trying to emulate what? If it's not an anechoic room, then what it is?
Nap. :scratch:
You are not trying to emulate anything.
The purpose is to reduce room related frequency issues. Similar goal to room treatments.
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You are not trying to emulate anything.
The purpose is to reduce room related frequency issues. Similar goal to room treatments.
To what extent?
Room treatments also can go from gentle diffusers to a full anechoic setup.
Where do we stop?
Nap. :scratch:
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Napalm consider it like the Bose noise cancellation headphones :) ..
Don't most room-corrections solution use a single microphone? So only the location of the microphone could sound perfect, you move an inch or two away then it's no longer perfect. I would assume DRC is the last resort after room treatments and just before moving to a different house.
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Don't most room-corrections solution use a single microphone? So only the location of the microphone could sound perfect, you move an inch or two away then it's no longer perfect.
No, the best use multiple locations or in the case of trinov use multiple microphones
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Make it deeper? Like a 4B or so?
I always hated that the BP6 is so short, I cannot sit the 4B on top of it. And sitting the BP6 on top of the 4B would obstruct cooling.
Nap. :thumb:
:bawl: :P
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I am all for deconstructing things to optimized pieces, but the current Logitech Transporter, SqueezeCenter software, iPeng/iPod Touch combo has, and continues, to serve me as an ideal player. I have the Transporter connected to the BP26 as an analog source, and to the BDA-1 as a digital source. Only had one night to try things out, so can't comment on the difference yet.
I wouldn't want anything less than that, and losing the integration between the list management and server functions is just a step backward.
Bingo!!!!!!!
I agree with you 100% and have the same setup... with my Transporter running over hardwired ethernet and the two wireless antenna removed off the back.
I navigate only with the supplied Transporter remote and its inbuilt screen. Thus I can play standard and HIREZ "disks" with no computer anywhere near my room.
I think having a PC screen/PC in my room so I can see cover art etc is all bling... and a hassle as PC interface is no more efficient than the standard remote.
Technically I could setup a touch screen display in my room and use a "USB over ethernet" device to connect to my remote PC (thus removing the PC from inside the room) but as noted, aside from the wow/bling factor... it would not provide (to me at least) any added benefit.
In relation to the BDP-1, it will have to be very very good to outperform the Transporter and the Transporter has a built in DAC. I have mentioned before on this forum that I think if Bryston is to increase the commercial success of the BDP-1 then a built in DAC would have been advantageous.
The Transporter and the BDP-1 are architecturally very different (ethernet based verses USB based) but in the end they both aspire to the same thing: the highest level of sound reproduction from a computer source.
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Bingo!!!!!!!
I agree with you 100% and have the same setup... with my Transporter running over hardwired ethernet and the two wireless antenna removed off the back.
I navigate only with the supplied Transporter remote and its inbuilt screen. Thus I can play standard and HIREZ "disks" with no computer anywhere near my room.
I think having a PC screen/PC in my room so I can see cover art etc is all bling... and a hassle as PC interface is no more efficient than the standard remote.
Technically I could setup a touch screen display in my room and use a "USB over ethernet" device to connect to my remote PC (thus removing the PC from inside the room) but as noted, aside from the wow/bling factor... it would not provide (to me at least) any added benefit.
In relation to the BDP-1, it will have to be very very good to outperform the Transporter and the Transporter has a built in DAC. I have mentioned before on this forum that I think if Bryston is to increase the commercial success of the BDP-1 then a built in DAC would have been advantageous.
The Transporter and the BDP-1 are architecturally very different (ethernet based verses USB based) but in the end they both aspire to the same thing: the highest level of sound reproduction from a computer source.
Rick,
You oughta use ipeng app and an ipod touch. All the bling and wow, no computer needed.
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Rick,
You oughta use ipeng app and an ipod touch. All the bling and wow, no computer needed.
How about using just the ipod and a pair of headphones. Much simpler and way cheaper.
Nap. :jester:
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Rick,
You oughta use ipeng app and an ipod touch. All the bling and wow, no computer needed.
three reasons (all of which mark me as a luddite):
1- all my CD's are "ripped" as full resoultion uncompressed WAV files (as a opposed to full resoultion compressed files) which means tags are lost as well as potentially album art and the ability to "mine" the tags (ie. select all blues tracks recorded in 1958 by musicians with one leg and play them.... wow :roll:)
2- I do not own nor plan to own any Apple products and the ipod screen size is too small to be effective
3- I honestly find the standard remote/display work very fast and efficiently given I have "indexed" my music via sub-directories on the PC drive and I can create "mood" playlists to fit my current mood (horny, pissed, happy, sad, depressed, drunk etc)
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Bingo!!!!!!!
I agree with you 100% and have the same setup... with my Transporter running over hardwired ethernet and the two wireless antenna removed off the back.
I navigate only with the supplied Transporter remote and its inbuilt screen. Thus I can play standard and HIREZ "disks" with no computer anywhere near my room.
I think having a PC screen/PC in my room so I can see cover art etc is all bling... and a hassle as PC interface is no more efficient than the standard remote.
Technically I could setup a touch screen display in my room and use a "USB over ethernet" device to connect to my remote PC (thus removing the PC from inside the room) but as noted, aside from the wow/bling factor... it would not provide (to me at least) any added benefit.
In relation to the BDP-1, it will have to be very very good to outperform the Transporter and the Transporter has a built in DAC. I have mentioned before on this forum that I think if Bryston is to increase the commercial success of the BDP-1 then a built in DAC would have been advantageous.
The Transporter and the BDP-1 are architecturally very different (ethernet based verses USB based) but in the end they both aspire to the same thing: the highest level of sound reproduction from a computer source.
Yes but you are comparing Logitech vs Bryston in the field of audio playback.... The Bryston will have its signature sound. Logitech hasnt done anything in the field of audio thats really noteworthy other than these recent computer adapters. We will have to see but i bet the Bryston will beat hands down sonically.
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three reasons (all of which mark me as a luddite):
1- all my CD's are "ripped" as full resoultion uncompressed WAV files (as a opposed to full resoultion compressed files) which means tags are lost as well as potentially album art and the ability to "mine" the tags (ie. select all blues tracks recorded in 1958 by musicians with one leg and play them.... wow :roll:)
2- I do not own nor plan to own any Apple products and the ipod screen size is too small to be effective
3- I honestly find the standard remote/display work very fast and efficiently given I have "indexed" my music via sub-directories on the PC drive and I can create "mood" playlists to fit my current mood (horny, pissed, happy, sad, depressed, drunk etc)
I have a Transporter that is fed digitally to my BDA-1. I have never used the Transporter remote nor the front panel (including the tactile feedback control). The use of the Duet controller as a remote for the Transporter makes it the perfect combination.
I own a 27" iMac and an iPad though, but I'm probably still a proud luddite :D
Keith
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Yes but you are comparing Logitech vs Bryston in the field of audio playback.... The Bryston will have its signature sound. Logitech hasnt done anything in the field of audio thats really noteworthy other than these recent computer adapters. We will have to see but i bet the Bryston will beat hands down sonically.
It doesn't matter who you are comparing. It doesn't matter what Logitech/Slim Devices did over the last, say 30 years. If a new product comes out that competes with the long time stalwarts of the industry, it deserves attention. I've been a Bryston 'flag waver' for a long time and always will be. I own a Transporter and use it to feed my BDA-1 as a transport. In combination with the Duet controller, it a marvellous piece of equipment.
I'm sure the BDP-1 will sound terrific. I will likely buy one. I'd love to put it head to head with the Transporter fed via wifi just to see what the differences really are. I suspect they are minimal if non-existent. I have compared the BDA-1 DAC to the internal DAC of the Transporter and yes...I prefer the BDA-1. However, for me, they are so close that I could live with both. However, choose the live with the BDA-1. It's a great piece of gear.
Sure, the Transporter or similar gear may not be for everyone, but it's ceratinly for a lot of people. I'll never go back to a CD player in my system now that I have the Transporter (and likely a BDP-1). However, there are features on the Transporter that the BDP-1 will not replace as my main player. I also have a living room system that I feed via a Logitech Duet. So, the wifi works great for me and even if there is a small amount of 'performance' given up....I'll wave goodbye for the convenience :wink:
Keith
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I own a BDA-1 and a SB Touch. Personally I dont think Slim devices was around 30 years ago but it is a great product feeding the BDA-1. The interface is pretty good and things like interfaces take time to hone and improve. I dont think a year would cut it. The Bryston front end sans DAc seems like a steep price for entry and will be more of a hobbyist tool than a fully functional piece of audio equip. Time will tell of course.
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Personally I dont think Slim devices was around 30 years ago but it is a great product feeding the BDA-1.
Of course not..I was merely making a point that it was a 'new' product :wink: It wouldn't matter if it was around that long or not...if something is new and credible, it can't be fully discounted becuase it has no history :wink:
Keith
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Yes but you are comparing Logitech vs Bryston in the field of audio playback.... The Bryston will have its signature sound. Logitech hasnt done anything in the field of audio thats really noteworthy other than these recent computer adapters. We will have to see but i bet the Bryston will beat hands down sonically.
firstly it was Slimdevices that released the Transporter.
secondly, although measurements arent the be all and end all... the Transporter measures very well as per Stereophile and other magazines that do provide measurements. And of course in the real world of listening it has been well received by reviewers and end users alike.
Fundamentally (if we assume that both will buffer the data they receive via their respective ethernet/usb connections), we have zero jitter at the point of data stream reception... but the internals are different from then on (custom board design/software in the Trannsporter verses customized "off the shelf" with the Bryston).
I am not short changing the BDP-1 here with the term "off the shelf"... but it just reflects the different skills each company brought to the table. Slimdevices was from the computer hitech side and Bryston from the high end.
So yes... a comparison will be very interesting.... but I dont think the BDP-1 will superior... different yes... but not superior.
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firstly it was Slimdevices that released the Transporter.
secondly, although measurements arent the be all and end all... the Transporter measures very well as per Stereophile and other magazines that do provide measurements. And of course in the real world of listening it has been well received by reviewers and end users alike.
Fundamentally (if we assume that both will buffer the data the receive via their respective ethernet/usb connections), we have zero jitter at the point of data stream reception... but the internals are different from then on (custom board design/software in the Trannsporter verses customized "off the shelf" with the Bryston).
I am not short changing the BDP-1 here with the term "off the shelf"... but it just reflects the different skills each company brought to the table. Slimdevices was from the computer hitech side and Bryston from the high end.
So yes... a comparison will be very interesting.... but I dont think the BDP-1 will superior... different yes... but not superior.
Its hard to say, the whole thing is very confusing. There are so many products out there now, including the logitech. Its makes hard to wait on the bdp1 then take the plunge and get something else.
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Its hard to say, the whole thing is very confusing. There are so many products out there now, including the logitech. Its makes hard to wait on the bdp1 then take the plunge and get something else.
From my perspective, both the Transporter and the BDP-1 take the correct approach... which is no frickn hard drive in the component. Any device that purports to provide the highest fidelity cannot contain a hard drive.
Secondly they also take the same approach in not providing a user inteface device or hard drive pack that you MUST purchase as part of the overall product and then charge $15K for it all.
What they provide is a building block.... add in your own hard drive/PC/control device/DAC ... that way you can change/replace these peripherals easily... and you are not trapped into say expensive disk drive upgrades from the devices vendor.
The road Bryston has taken with this is fairly unique... the only hiend vendor that provides a similar type of platform is Linn and they are very expensive.
So a Transporter/Linn/BDP-1 bakeoff would be very insightful
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From my perspective, both the Transporter and the BDP-1 take the correct approach... which is no frickn hard drive in the component. Any device that purports to provide the highest fidelity cannot contain a hard drive.
How did you come to this conclusion?
Steve
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I had a couple of hours to listen to music this past fathers day, (little feat, neil young BTW). While listening I spent a lot of time thinking about my squeezeboxes and how they would fair out in back to back tests with the BDP when connected to the same high quality DAC and playing the same source material. I just can't imagine there being that much of a difference. And while I wish James and Bryston the best of luck with the BDP-1, "if" the music does not sound a lot better with the BDP-1, I would we be hard pressed to trade in all the convienence of the squeezeboxes, the graphic Remotes and having all my music in one central location in my house (computer in the basement) and being able to access it in seconds anywhere else in the house. I came to the conclusion that perhaps the perfect product would be for Bryston To offer as an option, a squeezebox client software package for the BDP-1. What do think James? I have heard rumors that Logitech might discontinue the transporter at some point in the future, To me the BDP would be a shoe-in as a replacement .
Food for thought.....in the mean time I can't weight till we can get some comparison testing done!
Cheers guys/gals
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Interesting. The folks in the Logitech forums have discovered the BDP-1 lol.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79732 (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79732)
Nap. :wink:
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Even more interesting:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79742 (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79742)
We're endlessly talking here about details, but in the grand scheme of things, to whom would you want to talk if you have issues, to James or to Logitech call centre?
Nap.
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How did you come to this conclusion?
Steve
Emphasis on "no disk drive"
1- disk drives are physically noisey because they are mechanical...so you will hear that in your room
2- they produce electrical noise pollution within the component
3- disk drives typically require the component to have some kind of fan for cooling... so increased noise (sure you can go fanless but that means much larger components)
4- you potentially need at least two drives in the component for redundancy (unless the component software can allow easy to execute backup to/restore from a remote drive....many dont)
5- disk upgrades become harder/more expensive with "in component" hard drives... some vendors will even lock you into having to buy upgrades from them
6- many vendors will "boot" the OS off the harddrive rather than from flash memory so when the drive goes... you are really dead in the water
So having the disk drives elsewhere... controlled by another device (PC or NAS) and connected to the component via some kind of cable that allows long cable runs (ethernet/USB/firewire)... means you can use an "out of room" robust NAS with built in redundancy/resilency and easier management and upgrade of the disks with the music
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^^^^
nice post
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Even more interesting:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79742 (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79742)
We're endlessly talking here about details, but in the grand scheme of things, to whom would you want to talk if you have issues, to James or to Logitech call centre?
Nap.
Solid point Nap.
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Yes, support good be an issue, but think of the possibilities? From what James has said, the BDP will have a Linux O/S, and the squeeze server code is opensource as well. As an option the customer could install the squeezebox player software, and connect to there existing squeezeserver. The BDP would appear as another player on the network (a steel cased Duet). There are commercially available NAS/ripperdevices on the market which come pre-installed with squeezeserver software. This optional software for the BDP would also leapfrog the product into the mainstream, while still allowing Bryston to concentrate on the product original goal... Decode files and stream/output them To a DAC.
Sorry James, that's what happens when you put an IP addressable interface on a entertainment product ; )
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As an option the customer could install the squeezebox player software, and connect to there existing squeezeserver.
This would be a welcome addition as there is an Ethernet port. The problem would be with support for all the plug-ins available. For example there is a convolver, the Ingus plug-in, but it requires a fair amount of computing power that the processor probably cannot handle, especially with higher bit rate and sampled files. I don't think the current software supports 192KHz/24Bit files.
Edit: This is whats in the SB Touch
Freescale i.MX35 533 MHz ARM11 / 128MB 32-bit bus DDR2 /28MB NAND flash, running SqueezeOS 7.5.0. which is the embedded Linux distribution.
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Emphasis on "no disk drive"
1- disk drives are physically noisey because they are mechanical...so you will hear that in your room
You still need a USB drive and if planned to use it with a 1TB of music, then your only viable option currently is a hard disk drive, perhaps larger SSDs will be out. So the BDP-1 doesn't solve this issue in all situations, perhaps when they implement the NAS feature then it might.
2- they produce electrical noise pollution within the component
Since USB, IDE, SATA, Ethernet and even PCIe can all share the same analog phy design you will have the same electrical noise pollution whether the HDD was internal using SATA/IDE/USB or external using USB. The BDP-1 doesn't solve this issue.
3- disk drives typically require the component to have some kind of fan for cooling... so increased noise (sure you can go fanless but that means much larger components)
Select a mobile drive and you can go fanless pretty easily otherwise it just takes a bit of design skill to properly design a case for ambient cooling.
4- you potentially need at least two drives in the component for redundancy (unless the component software can allow easy to execute backup to/restore from a remote drive....many dont)
Redundancy isn't a form of backup in my book, but a form of reliability. If a HDD was included internally there should be a mechanism to backup the drive to either a file share or to an external drive. Since the BDP-1 doesn't provide that ripping mechanism, this isn't required, even if it had an internal HDD.
5- disk upgrades become harder/more expensive with "in component" hard drives... some vendors will even lock you into having to buy upgrades from them
Design the box so the HDD is user serviceable. Perhaps use enterprise standard for hot-swappable drive bays where they slide in and out.
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Design the box so the HDD is user serviceable. Perhaps use enterprise standard for hot-swappable drive bays where they slide in and out.
Yes. I don't think a user will need to be swapping drives in and out regularly, so it doesn't necessarily have to be hot-swappable.
I envision a cutout in the front panel, similar to a CD drive drawer cutout, with the aluminum insert simply secured by two countersunk allen screws. The bay could accept either 2.5" hard drives or SSD drives directly mating to SATA data and power connectors.
Right now I think the largest 2.5" drive is currently 640GB 750GB which will probably be 1GB in another year. One could start out with a hard drive now and replace it a few years when the cost of SSD is more reasonable.
Of course network access will need to allow for backup to a network drive as well as allow copying of ripped files to the internal drive. Network shares should be accessible as data sources if the user doesn't want to use an internal drive.
Steve
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I can understand if somebody isnt comfortable around computers,etc, why they would want an internal HD. But what bewilders me is why so many people who are clearly comfortable/knowledgable in computers. Why they want to up the cost on this unit heavily when it can be done better on your own much cheaper, and more customized to one's preferences?
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You still need a USB drive and if planned to use it with a 1TB of music, then your only viable option currently is a hard disk drive, perhaps larger SSDs will be out. So the BDP-1 doesn't solve this issue in all situations, perhaps when they implement the NAS feature then it might.
Since USB, IDE, SATA, Ethernet and even PCIe can all share the same analog phy design you will have the same electrical noise pollution whether the HDD was internal using SATA/IDE/USB or external using USB. The BDP-1 doesn't solve this issue.
Select a mobile drive and you can go fanless pretty easily otherwise it just takes a bit of design skill to properly design a case for ambient cooling.
Redundancy isn't a form of backup in my book, but a form of reliability. If a HDD was included internally there should be a mechanism to backup the drive to either a file share or to an external drive. Since the BDP-1 doesn't provide that ripping mechanism, this isn't required, even if it had an internal HDD.
Design the box so the HDD is user serviceable. Perhaps use enterprise standard for hot-swappable drive bays where they slide in and out.
Technically a "USB drive" can be a "thumb drive" or a "RAID" unit with 4 or more drives. The BDP-1 OS doesnt care or understand what its talking to as long the device presents itself to the BDP-1 as a USB drive.
So the best "pure" solution for the BDP-1 is:
1- Purchase a 2 drive RAID 0 solution (ie one drive mirrors the other) or if you need lots of space a 4 drive RAID-5 solution from someone like LaCie
2- connect this to your PC and burn baby burn
3- get a super long USB cable (with built in extender)... say 15-25 feet long
4- stick the RAID unit in one room and run the cable to the BDP-1
5- make sure you connect the RAID unit to a UPS power unit
note: You do not need to be a computer wizz to configure the RAID unit... they come pre-configured and if the setting isnt what you want it is easily changed. You also cant screw it up as they are an "appliance" with a very limited choice of options.
This solves all the issues. You get a robust disk drive platform with automatic disk redundancy. The drives are hot-swappable.
I aggree that if you are smart enough then backing this RAID unit up makes sense but I disagree about the noise. It doesnt matter how noisey (mechanical/electrical) it is... the BDP-1 wont see this from another room over USB.
If you have more money, you can buy commerically available units that provide not only the RAID stuff but also have an inbuilt CD drive. These are basically customised PC's
And of course for the computer geeks, just build your own PC with a RAID card and drives.
So thats three levels of "NAS" for varying levels of computer skills.
While in the pure technical sense a RAID enabled USB connectible disk unit isnt NAS, in the broader sense it is a NAS. NAS typically implies connection over Ethernet but in the more broader sense, a RAID enabled USB drive unit connected to the BDP-1 is a "network" (although its point to point).
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Why are you so hung up on RAID? I run RAID 5 at work, but only because I can't afford even one hour of downtime.
RAID isn't a backup. At home, I run nightly scheduled incremental backups to a single NAS drive, and should my music drive fail, I might be down an hour or two. No big deal. Much simpler and less energy.
Steve
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This is what I currently do/have for my Transporter.
1- I have a USB RAID 5 , 4 drive LaCie unit connect to a PC.
2- I have a single drive "mobile" USB drive connected to the same PC
3- The transporter gets its files from disk drive in (2)
4- The disk drive in (1) is turned off
5- when I get new music, I rip it to my local drive , turn on the RAID unit in (1) and then copy it to both (1) and (2)
6- I then turn off (1)
This way I have a complete backup. If (2) fails, I buy another and copy from (1) to new (2)
If (1) has an issue, I do a hot swap and it will rebuild the drive contents automatically.
Note that when I got (1) I also purchase additional hot swap drives.
For use with the BDP-1, the steps are basically the same but (2) is connected to the BDP-1 most of the time. When you get new music, unplug (2), stick it back into the PC, rip/copy, then replug into BDP-1
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Why are you so hung up on RAID? I run RAID 5 at work, but only because I can't afford even one hour of downtime.
RAID isn't a backup. At home, I run nightly scheduled incremental backups to a single NAS drive, and should my music drive fail, I might be down an hour or two. No big deal. Much simpler and less energy.
Steve
its simple..... the USB drive is connected directly to the BDP-1.................. so you cant do an incremental!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
if the BDP-1 was a fully fledged OS then backups are an option...
secondly, RAID units are simple for non-technical people..... if you are a computer wizz then anything is possible.
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its simple..... the USB drive is connected directly to the BDP-1
And therein lies the inherent design flaw of the BDP-1. It should be connected to a network drive via Ethernet. And forget about schlepping a USB drive between it and a computer.
Steve
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Thanks folks - All good feedback and certainly areas we can look at as we move forward with the BDP-1.
Not to be to argumentative but does anyone care how the BDP-1 sounds :D
james
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Not to be arguementative but does anyone care how the BDP-1 sounds :D
I think in so many words you have told us that it should outperform any digital file player transport currently on the market. Accepting that, you are getting suggestions and feedback on the other (but no less important) half of the puzzle - usability and user interface.
Steve
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Raid 1 would be total overkill for the BDP-1, perhaps raid0 or raid5 if you had a library larger than 2TB in size and really needed that large drive space.
As I would prefer a reliable network solution that doesn't stream the content, I'm okay with cloning a drive for the BDP-1 to use. That drive would not be the main drive for music nor should it be considered a backup drive. It's mostly an additional, but necessary expense until Bryston decides to release the network solution
As I've stated in other threads about the BDP-1 is all in the user interface and I would argue that is more important than the fidelity of the unit but it clearly needs to be a top performer for that price and the extra hoops you have to go through to set it up.
How many folks in this forum really knows how to use "rsync" or program like it that will copy/clone a music directory on a regular schedule? It does take several hours to copy several hundred gigabytes of data and I can just see several folks struggling with that.
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I think in so many words you have told us that it should outperform any digital file player transport currently on the market. Accepting that, you are getting suggestions and feedback on the other (but no less important) half of the puzzle - usability and user interface.
Steve
Hi Steve - agreed - but I get the impression from some of the comments that introducing our CD Player and our DAC was a waste of time given that most products have built in DAC's and everyone knows that today you get a free CD player when you buy a fridge. :D
I guess my point is that if I was not trying to better the sound performance level first and foremost in some meaningful way -- especially with high resolution material -- I would not have taken this project on.
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Thanks folks - All good feedback and certainly areas we can look at as we move forward with the BDP-1.
Not to be to argumentative but does anyone care how the BDP-1 sounds :D
james
I care how it sounds................however i despise the fact that there is no Dac built in and i have to fork over 2K for the BDP-1 and then another 2K for BDA-1(Assuming i use/want the BDA-1 with it)...........to expensive at the moment and until the download format is settled/stable(will it ever be?).I will stick with what i got and not be an early adaptor on the BDP-1.
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I think in so many words you have told us that it should outperform any digital file player transport currently on the market. Accepting that, you are getting suggestions and feedback on the other (but no less important) half of the puzzle - usability and user interface.
Steve
+1
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Hi Steve - agreed - but I get the impression from some of the comments that introducing our CD Player and our DAC was a waste of time given that most products have built in DAC's and everyone knows that today you get a free CD player when you buy a fridge. :D
I guess my point is that if I was not trying to better the sound performance level first and foremost in some meaningful way -- especially with high resolution material -- I would not have taken this project on.
Ah, but there is the difference. I fully agree that separating the transport and DAC made sense because there was an identifiable issue with the mechanical transfer of data from the CD to the DAC and then high quality analog output.
Now we are talking about starting from a digital source, so the only value of the BDP-1 is to take that digital file and pass it to the DAC. The user interface, the ability to connect to remote data sources to avoid local storage, and the ability to manage play lists and multi-room setups becomes key.
The Slim Devices ecology - players, server side software, and open source model does all that very well. I don't really care that Logitech bought the company from a support point of view because I don't need support. The player works physically, and the community drives the software side.
Having both the Transporter and the BDA-1, I can say that the sound difference is barely noticeable when using the Transporter's analog outputs, and of course non-existent if using the digital outputs.
Those of us currently using mature systems can't see the value in the BDP-1 because it doesn't bring the full chain for playing digital files.
Those new to the idea of digital music and/or computers may appreciate the BDP-1. I just doubt they will be up for the fact that the whole concept requires locally attached storage and a third party software solution to control the player.
My collection sits where it belongs on a NAS, and is accessed across the network. I have no desire to complicate my life by requiring that I clone parts of my library to a physical USB device so that it can be attached to the BDP-1.
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Ok I guess we will just have to wait and see how it plays out. So far we have had termendous demand from our distributors and dealers and high resolution record companies. It will certainly be an interesting few months going forward.
james
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Not to be to argumentative but does anyone care how the BDP-1 sounds :D
Sure we do. Any preliminary mesurments on jitter when it's used with the BDA-1?
Nap.
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[...]Those new to the idea of digital music and/or computers may appreciate the BDP-1.[...]
I'd say that on the contrary it's those that have spent way too much time with computers that will appreciate the BDP-1 (when used with the BR-2).
Nap.
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Not to be to argumentative but does anyone care how the BDP-1 sounds :D
james
Being Bryston, I just assumed it would better equivalent units up to 3 times the price point, and beyond. I'm pretty sure you won't disappoint.
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For me all the tech :scratch:,doesn't mean a thing to me.
It is how she sounds,if she don't sound great , why bother.
I guess being a musician,it's all about the sound,the end result for me.
A component can have a ll kinds of thinga majigs in there which techy's love to see and analyse.
Just like certain technical players I have see(heard)they have all the parts,but can they play music,NOT.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:for her sound.
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Thanks folks - All good feedback and certainly areas we can look at as we move forward with the BDP-1.
And you already have, the/my suggestion of adding a basic 2 line display has actually happened! I *DO* think though, to maximize the compatibility with other (non Bryston) equipment, that all possible sorts of connections should be present, like an optical one... So many DAC's and digital amplifiers have optical entrances, I truly believe that not maximizing that will make you miss out on a considerable part of the market.
Not to be to argumentative but does anyone care how the BDP-1 sounds :D
Not really. We all know the sound quality standard of Bryston. It's nothing to worry about at all.
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I *DO* think though, to maximize the compatibility with other (non Bryston) equipment, that all possible sorts of connections should be present, like an optical one... So many DAC's and digital amplifiers have optical entrances, I truly believe that not maximizing that will make you miss out on a considerable part of the market.
I am going to disagree with that. James has already taken a suggestion to add an S/PDIF coaxial output to acommodate additional DACs that do not have an AES/EBU input.
You would be hard pressed to find digital amplifiers or DACs that have S/PDIF inputs that do not have a coaxial input. Because an optical input adds another layer of buffering on both the transmitting and receiving ends of the S/PDIF interface, the coaxial input is preferred when the best S/PDIF signal quality is the goal.
Steve
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Raid 1 would be total overkill for the BDP-1, perhaps raid0 or raid5 if you had a library larger than 2TB in size and really needed that large drive space.
As I would prefer a reliable network solution that doesn't stream the content, I'm okay with cloning a drive for the BDP-1 to use. That drive would not be the main drive for music nor should it be considered a backup drive. It's mostly an additional, but necessary expense until Bryston decides to release the network solution
As I've stated in other threads about the BDP-1 is all in the user interface and I would argue that is more important than the fidelity of the unit but it clearly needs to be a top performer for that price and the extra hoops you have to go through to set it up.
How many folks in this forum really knows how to use "rsync" or program like it that will copy/clone a music directory on a regular schedule? It does take several hours to copy several hundred gigabytes of data and I can just see several folks struggling with that.
Yep, I know what rsync is, I use it several times a week. My backups consist of using rsync to back up my files systems to my neighbor's host via 300' of direct buried Cat 5E ethernet cable we have between our house's. Assuming my wife is not to aggressive with the garden hoe it works just fine. He backs his file systems on my host as well. Off site backups...can't beat it!
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Ok I guess we will just have to wait and see how it plays out. So far we have had termendous demand from our distributors and dealers and high resolution record companies. It will certainly be an interesting few months going forward.
james
James, I am sure I can speak on behalf of everyone else on this forum, in that we all really want you to be successful with the introduction of BDP-1 . That's why you are getting all the feed back. : ) I realize alot of what we are asking is focused around networking and back end music storage, which may not be your prime focus or Bryston's forte'. But I am sure the fine Engineers you have working up the line on HWY 7 have the capability to come up with great solution to "finish" the product after you gauge the initial public reaction/sales to the BDP-1.
P.S. are you planning on doing any comparison testing with products such as the logitech(slimdevices) Touch/ Transporter? Or will you wait and let the trade rags do that? My offer is still open to ship you up a pint size squeezeserver, if you can wrangle up a Touch player.
Cheers,
Scott
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^^^^^^^
Hi Scott,
I have not played with the 'squeezer' yet but will shortly. As you say I was not looking at this product as a squeezebox type product but more like a companion piece for our BDA-1 DAC.
I have really been concentrating on comparing the sound on the different prototypes – trying switching supplies vs linear supplies, different modifications to the soundcard, different versions of software, compared to CD players etc. Soundcards I have tried so far in my three different computer setups (2-Windows – 1 Mac) are the M-Audio soundcard , the Lynx soundcard, the REM soundcard the ESI@ soundcard, and the Mac Pro etc.
Next I want to do BNC vs AES-EBU and work with our web-browser interface on my itouch and ipad as well as my Windows based computers. What it looks like now is that we will be able to allow access to the Bryston web-browser on the BDP-1 through multiple platforms – Mac, Windows etc. or any device that allows for a web interface.
james
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Can you put a Dac in it?........No wait i remember what you said earlier...."No Room" :shake: ....here is a thought..."Make Room" use a bigger box.......it cant be that hard???Bryston has so many diff sizes of boxes to choose from......no wait...that would mess up the sales/marketing on the BDP-1 since golly gee....i have to spend another 2K for it .........this product is Illogical in this reguard...No Dac and the price over 4 K for the combo if i wanna use the Bryston Dac.
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Can you put a Dac in it?........No wait i remember what you said earlier...."No Room" :shake: ....here is a thought..."Make Room" use a bigger box.......it cant be that hard???Bryston has so many diff sizes of boxes to choose from......no wait...that would mess up the sales/marketing on the BDP-1 since golly gee....i have to spend another 2K for it .........this product is Illogical in this reguard...No Dac and the price over 4 K for the combo if i wanna use the Bryston Dac.
Its still going to be much cheaper than many currently available products offering similar performance in an all in one box/separate boxes and you also have the added cost savings and flexbilty of using either the DAC or the Player with other manufacturers products :D
Maybe it is not understood that adding a quality DAC and independent analog and digital power supplies and impedance matching multiple digital input connections and discrete analog output stage in the BDP-1 somehow gets added for free :D
james
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Its still going to be much cheaper than many currently available products offering similar performance in an all in one box/separate boxes and you also have the added cost savings and flexbilty of using either the DAC or the Player with other manufacturers products :D
Maybe it is not understood that adding a quality DAC and independent analog and digital power supplies and impedance matching multiple digital input connections and discrete analog output stage in the BDP-1 somehow gets added for free :D
james
How about a "Special Promotion" when this product is introduced then?If you buy the BDA-1 and BDP-1 together you save a a ceratin ammount?Not a said ammount set by the dealer,but an actuall savings ammount set by Bryston.Kind of a "Bundle Promotion"? :thumb:
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How about a "Special Promotion" when this product is introduced then?If you buy the BDA-1 and BDP-1 together you save a a ceratin ammount?Not a said ammount set by the dealer,but an actuall savings ammount set by Bryston.Kind of a "Bundle Promotion"? :thumb:
Hi,
Yes I like that idea :thumb: and I was thinking of having the option for anyone who has purchased a Bryston BDA-1 DAC in the previous 3 months (after we release the BDP-1) would also qualify for a package discount?
james
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Hi,
Yes I like that idea :thumb: and I was thinking of having the option for anyone who has purchased a Bryston BDA-1 DAC in the previous 3 months (after we release the BDP-1) would also qualify for a package discount?
james
Yes thats reasonable.That would be positive. :thumb:
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Hi,
Yes I like that idea :thumb: and I was thinking of having the option for anyone who has purchased a Bryston BDA-1 DAC in the previous 3 months (after we release the BDP-1) would also qualify for a package discount?
james
Good idea, but I would like it a whole lot better if you would eliminate the words, "in the previous 3 months (after we release the BDP-1)". :D
Tony
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Good idea, but I would like it a whole lot better if you would eliminate the words, "in the previous 3 months (after we release the BDP-1)". :D
Tony
Tony - that might work - any customer that has purchased a BDA-1 and shows proof of purchase would qualify - I will give that some serious thought :thumb:
james
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Tony - that might work - any customer that has purchased a BDA-1 and shows proof of purchase would qualify - I will give that some serious thought :thumb:
james
I like it!! :thumb:
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Also a tax rebate for Ontario residents :wink:
And additional 10% rebate for those that will have a 100% Made In Canada system (including speakers).
Also an additional 5% off for good old Napalm.
Nap. :P
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Tony - that might work - any customer that has purchased a BDA-1 and shows proof of purchase would qualify - I will give that some serious thought :thumb:
james
cool! :thumb:
al.