AudioCircle
Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: rustydoglim on 21 Dec 2022, 08:25 pm
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The Evolution Two is a mono amplifier (RMS Power 300W@8 Ohm, 600W@4 Ohm) that offers a breakthrough in distortion reduction and it is the most powerful, dynamic, natural and detailed amplifier in all Nuprime series. This is the "powered up" version of the Evolution STA. I think it can rival any Class A amp on the market at any price. https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/evolution-two/ (https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/evolution-two/)
The AMG One is literally a mini version of the Evolution Two. https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/amg-one/ (https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/amg-one/)
Both amps are shipping now.
Note that AMG One and AMG STA are two amps with different sound characteristic. You will like either one, but not both.
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Interesting amps.
I find that Nuprime website confusing and difficult to follow.
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Interesting amps.
I find that Nuprime website confusing and difficult to follow.
The organization isn’t the greatest but I’m intrigued enough by the products that I’m getting comfortable with the site.
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Interesting amps.
I find that Nuprime website confusing and difficult to follow.
It will help me improve the website if you can tell me how you find it confusing.
You can either find products by Category or list all products at the top-level menu.
Or, at the bottom of the home page, you move your mouse pointer over the image to choose the categories.
We find audio products either by category or by the entire list. Or if you are an existing customer, you would look at the new products.
How about other people? Do you find the website confusing? How would you suggest improving it?
Thanks.
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When you go to the amplifier and preamp section above the name of each piece is says in grey letters amplifier and preamp. At first it was hard to tell if it was an amp or preamp. The same issue is with DAC's and DAC's with headphone sections. It is not just me, I asked someone else. Just get rid of the grey lettering.
Amplifiers should be separate from Integrated amps and preamps should have their own section.
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My experience is the same as I.Greyhound’s. You have to be familiar with the products or willing to invest the time to become familiar to understand what is what.
I also think you have an opportunity to expand the recommended systems section to identify components by series that are designed to go together and help users understand how to pair components in a series to build a system that meets their needs.
Paired with the Amp Comparison and Sonic Characteristics section you’d be able to provide valuable guidance.
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Thanks for your feedback. We will get rid of the gimmicky mouse-over-image category selection on the home page.
And offer more system combinations and recommendations.
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The Evolution Two is a mono amplifier (RMS Power 300W@8 Ohm, 600W@4 Ohm) that offers a breakthrough in distortion reduction and it is the most powerful, dynamic, natural and detailed amplifier in all Nuprime series. This is the "powered up" version of the Evolution STA. I think it can rival any Class A amp on the market at any price. https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/evolution-two/ (https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/evolution-two/)
The AMG One is literally a mini version of the Evolution Two. https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/amg-one/ (https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/amg-one/)
Both amps are shipping now.
Note that AMG One and AMG STA are two amps with different sound characteristic. You will like either one, but not both.
What's the reason for moving from 700KHz to 650KHz switching Class-D module and from 1MΩ input impedance to 47K Ohms? Is this not a clear step backwards from Evolution One to Evolution Two?
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What's the reason for moving from 700KHz to 650KHz switching Class-D module and from 1MΩ input impedance to 47K Ohms? Is this not a clear step backwards from Evolution One to Evolution Two?
Evolution STA and Evolution TWO have a different design than Evolution One. It is NOT a step back (why would we do that, lol).
Nuprime might be the ONLY high-end audio amplifier company in the world that is continuously innovating in variants of Class-D designs.
The changes from one design to another are not something I can easily explain in a forum, even if I know how.
Let's put it this way, when we introduced Evolution One, the design was a breakthrough in 1MOhm input impedance for Class-D amp. The result speaks for itself. The innovation was passed down to AMG series. A few years have passed and our chief engineer continues to explore more advanced design. So that resulted in Evolution STA with different design than Evolution One. While it was in the same level as Evolution One but that design has potential to take it further.
And then came the Evolution Two with monster power.
If we have to pick on Evolution One, it is too clean and detailed. So for the past few years, we have been exploring how to maintain the level of Evolution One while adding a little more class-A texture to the sound. At the 9 series level, it is much easier to do because there is always some trade-off. But at the highest level, there can be no trade-off. There is no assurance that you will like Evolution Two over Evolution One, if you compare the two. But with Evolution Two design, we are able to take it to such high power without sacrificing sound characteristic.
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I understand alexreusch’s question though. When the Evolution One was introduced, Nuprime touted that 1 million ohm input impedance specification as an absolute breakthrough in amp design and now based on your latest post, it seems like Nuprime doesn’t view it as a big deal anymore. That creates confusion.
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I understand alexreusch’s question though. When the Evolution One was introduced, Nuprime touted that 1 million ohm input impedance specification as an absolute breakthrough in amp design and now, based on your latest post, it seems like Nuprime doesn’t view it as a big deal anymore. That creates confusion.
I think you guys are drawing a very wrong conclusion. Did we ever say that 1M ohm input impedance wasn't a big deal? In high tech industry, every breakthrough is a big deal. But we continue to advance the state of the art.
Evolution STA and Evolution Two have an innovation that is also a breakthrough, and that is called the "Only Distortion Cancellation (ODC)". This ODC design isn't compatible with the 1M ohm design. With ODC, the distortion was reduced by an order of magnitude, and we are able to increase the amp's RMS power significantly.
In Evolution One, we have done all we can to push the limit.
In Evolution STA and TWO, we can take the super high-end audio further. Keep in mind that we are putting out $5K amps that can compete with other amps costing many times over, and that is no easy task. Each improvement is incrementally small at the super high-end audio level.
Furthermore, some innovations are a big deal but not applicable to the super high-end level. In a new entry-level amp that we are shipping in early January, the Nuprime STA-100 ($649) has a major breakthrough that we are introducing in our history. You can read about the Adaptive Voltage Switching Power Supply on the product page: https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/sta-100/ (https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/sta-100/).
But at the super high-end level, we have to use a linear power supply. Perhaps someday we can find a way to design an SMPS that surpasses the best LPS; we think that day is still very far away (it may never come).
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I think I can understand seikosha and alexreusch's being incredulous for a couple reasons - especially if they haven't heard any of the above mentioned amps. That was until I ordered the Evo STA and used it in my main system. Hot damn, but it's a special amplifier! I'm a believer. :thumb:
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In a new entry-level amp that we are shipping in early January, the Nuprime STA-100 ($649) has a major breakthrough that we are introducing in our history.
I’ve not yet heard any NuPrime gear but am most intrigued because you’re not simply implementing / packaging other’s modules.
The STA-100 caught my attention the other day while perusing the website. Maybe this needs another thread but how would you describe the intended use and sonic characteristics? What is it intended to be paired with? Is it a standalone product or the first in a new series?
I’m contemplating a desktop setup. It’s certainly sized right. A companion headphone amp/preamp/DAC would make for an attractive setup.
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Someone just started an STA-100 topic. I will reply there.
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Since 2014, we have been innovating every two years. If your budget allows, you can have a feast and never get bored or disappointed with our state of the art products and technology.
We also bring innovations to every price points, and challenge ourselves how to raise the bar at every level. In the past few years our attention has been at the super high-end level. Now we are turning toward the entry level.
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It's not only about the input impedance. You also moved from 700KHz to 650KHz switching Class-D module. When the Evolution One was introduced, you said that your are already working on breaking the 1GHz barrier regarding the switching Class-D module, which would be the next level, now going back to 650KHz does not sound logical to me. So you have been on a wrong route or how what's the reason for the change of direction?
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Are these Bob Smith designs?
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Are these Bob Smith designs?
Bob doesn't know how to design a switching amp. We authorised him to provide his shielding upgrade for some customers. And he knows speakers very well, so in the past, he helped with the feedback filter on the NuForce Ref 9.
You also moved from 700KHz to 650KHz switching Class-D module.
Please, this is irrelevant. Switching frequency is ONLY one of the factors and a switching amp's frequencies vary within a range, especially the SOA (self-oscillating amp), which does not use an external PWM generator.
If we change from 700K to 500K, then that would be significant. Evo Two's design was tuned to run around the 650KHz range as this is the most suitable freq for the specific design. In some designs, higher frequencies cause other problems. In other designs, higher frequencies sounded better.
Yes, we have tried >1GHz design (we tried all sorts of ideas all the time) on GaN devices, and wow, the first impression was super smooth. Wow, very nice. But ....hmmm...something's not right. A very good amp has to sound "right" - with enough details, dynamic, texture, power, speed, and warmth. Sometimes when pushing some of the characteristics to the extreme, we end up with something "off".
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Nuprime might be the ONLY high-end audio amplifier company in the world that is continuously innovating in variants of Class-D designs.
Well, maybe Legacy Audio
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Nope, they use ICEpower chips.
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Nuprime might be the ONLY high-end audio amplifier company in the world that is continuously innovating in variants of Class-D designs.
What about Orchard Audio?
Not really part of this thread, but it would be interesting to see a comparison between Orchard Audio's new version of Starkrimson Ultra Mono and Nuprime Evolution two.
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It is quite easy to tell if the audio brand does its own design from the ground up - they would have told you and show you what they have done in technical details (not marketing fluff). The Guides section on Nuprime website explained our core technologies. And we show the inside of our products.
Designing and manufacturing variations of Class-D is very hard, only a handful of engineers can do that.
Bruno Putzeys who designed Hypex amps (I don't think he works there anymore) is one of the leading expert on class-D amp.
The only way to make money in class-D amp is to get into the high volume commercial OEM modules business. That's the goal for IcePower and Hypex. And every brands buy from them.
Many other low end high power ClassD amps use reference design from MOSFET companies. You will be shocked if you learn how much those off-the-shelf modules cost in 1K volume.
Nuprime is the outlier in the high-end audio industry. We can do what we do because we have an OEM business that subsidises the high-end audio.
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“ Nuprime is the outlier in the high-end audio industry. We can do what we do because we have an OEM business that subsidises the high-end audio.”
I didn’t know that. That’s an interesting bit of information. I suspect I’ve bumped into a couple brands in Taiwan that get parts from Nuprime.
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The OEM/ODM side normally manufactures finished products. I don't think they sell parts on the market. In some cases they supply parts to other finished product. It is still a very small business. As a small manufacturer, we focus on a few customers (brand and OEM) and can not afford to expand (the expansion and contraction cycle can kill a factory). While others come and go, we stay alive and keep going.
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What about Orchard Audio?
Not really part of this thread, but it would be interesting to see a comparison between Orchard Audio's new version of Starkrimson Ultra Mono and Nuprime Evolution two.
Thanks for the mention.
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Thanks for the mention.
Please remove this message, it is against site policy to promote in another brand's circle.
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Hello
I bought 3 AMG ones for the HC part but I would like to be able to connect the two amps to a streammer preamp... do you have the thing that goes best with the AMG one?
Thanks in advance
Regards
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Nuprime doesn't yet have a high-end streaming DAC/preamp (target early Q4 2023). Stream-9 is very good but you need to pair it with a DAC.
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Thank you
Will wait
AMG one is incredible amplifier
i use it with arendal 1723 S .JBL sdp 55 (then dirac )
In stereo or HC its incredible
I tried before mcx4 ..2 AMG sta..michi ect
This small and not expensive must be known
Really accurate ..détails and Dynamic sound
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The Absolute Sound has a review coming out soon for AMG One.
I haven't seen a review that good for a long time. :thumb:
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Interesting amps.
I find that Nuprime website confusing and difficult to follow.
I second this. I find it is very hard to identify which amps sound similarly but with differing powe levels. Having owned several nuprime amps, I can only discover this by trying them, which is rather expensive. I wish you would group them accordingly.
For example, I found the sound of the ida8 and mcx very similar with different power levels.
The st 10 is more revealing and grouped with the mono versions and I don’t know if it sounds like the stx.
The evo 2 and amg one sound similar. Don’t know if it sounds the same as the ida8 and mcx. Also is there a stereo version for those who don’t want or need monoblocks? I would be interested to try if it sounds like the mcx and not interested if it sounds like the st10.
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I understand, but having more choices is better than no choice.
Nuprime is known for being value for money. Therefore when choosing the amp, you decide based on your budget and preference.
The amp comparison guide lets you start with your preference: Are you seeking specific power or warmth?
I think Power, Warmth, and Budget are pretty much the primary considerations.
We have this system guide to help you get started: https://nuprimeaudio.com/systems/
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https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nuprime-amg-one-power-amplifier/
I still think it's by far the best nuprime amp after owning MCX, AMG Sta, Sta and Sta X
I now use it with the new denon avc a1h
I tried with or without the nuprime, I much prefer with the nuprime, the music has more body ect (the violins are magnificent by the way) more emotion and emotion in music is the most important
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https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nuprime-amg-one-power-amplifier/
I still think it's by far the best nuprime amp after owning MCX, AMG Sta, Sta and Sta X
I now use it with the new denon avc a1h
I tried with or without the nuprime, I much prefer with the nuprime, the music has more body ect (the violins are magnificent by the way) more emotion and emotion in music is the most important
If possible please elaborate on why you prefer the AMG One over AMG STA. Personal experiences will be helpful for me to understand Jason’s opening comment that a person will like one or the other but not both. Thank you.
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it is straighter in a transparent sense of the term more analytical more details, a better defined sound scene and better defined bass but without excess, when I listen to the adagio I have the impression of having the strings in front of me, it grabs me more, and on the contrary on a Bob Marley song I listen all the little percussions; details perfectly reproduced
it is a hypex module perfectly integrated with the nuprime touch. the AMG Sta is also very good but I feel less pleasure, bass less present and perhaps too colorful for my taste; so for me the AMG One is more versatile hifi like HC , all kind of music because it is also what I said above more dynamic
I use arendal 1723S
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Thanks much for the details. I didn't realize the Ones are a NuPrime Hypex integration. I assumed they were home grown.
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It’s my understanding that Nuprime amps are home grown, too. This is the first time I have seen anyone claim they are hypex amps. Jason, care to chime in here?
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Thanks much for the details. I didn't realize the Ones are a NuPrime Hypex integration. I assumed they were home grown.
it's not a hypex it was a metaphor
hypex modules are in fashion at the moment that's why I made a metaphor
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It’s my understanding that Nuprime amps are home grown, too. This is the first time I have seen anyone claim they are hypex amps. Jason, care to chime in here?
yes it was a metaphor
its not an hypex of course
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Thanks much for the details. I didn't realize the Ones are a NuPrime Hypex integration. I assumed they were home grown.
Where did this hypex integration come from? Don't make me puke :duh:
Of course Nuprime amps are all designed by Nuprime. We do not buy from Hypex or any other amp module.
In fact, we will be introducing our own amp module for the DIY and installation marketing in December.
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Where did this hypex integration come from? Don't make me puke :duh:
Of course Nuprime amps are all designed by Nuprime. We do not buy from Hypex or any other amp module.
In fact, we will be introducing our own amp module for the DIY and installation marketing in December.
Interesting! By any chance could one use the upcoming amp modules to create a self-powered speaker?
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Yes.
Basically it is a "naked" STA-100 with 20% more power with a mounting bracket/heatsink.
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Yes.
Basically it is a "naked" STA-100 with 20% more power with a mounting bracket/heatsink.
Hello
what about an high-end streaming DAC/preamp (target early Q4 2023) ?
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hello
At the origin of my purchase I listened to the Evolution 2 with Focal Utopia, it was breathtaking afterwards for my less demanding speakers, and one. smaller budget because I wanted 3 amps, I tested the nuprime AMG One in the store and I don't regret it. when I was talking about hypex it's linked to the hypex hype on many sites, it's true that its modules when they are well integrated they are transparent and have no breath, but often I find that they are missing soul. this nuprime amg one is more transparent and therefore more versatile than amg STA9, AMG STA for exemple when you listen to all styles of music and not just vocal jazz. we are perhaps less tube type like the sta 9 but it still has this warm side. we are therefore in an ideal compromise
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hello
At the origin of my purchase I listened to the Evolution 2 with Focal Utopia, it was breathtaking afterwards for my less demanding speakers, and one. smaller budget because I wanted 3 amps, I tested the nuprime AMG One in the store and I don't regret it. when I was talking about hypex it's linked to the hypex hype on many sites, it's true that its modules when they are well integrated they are transparent and have no breath, but often I find that they are missing soul. this nuprime amg one is more transparent and therefore more versatile than amg STA9, AMG STA for exemple when you listen to all styles of music and not just vocal jazz. we are perhaps less tube type like the sta 9 but it still has this warm side. we are therefore in an ideal compromise
Thanks! :thumb:
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Hello
what about an high-end streaming DAC/preamp (target early Q4 2023) ?
That has been pushed out to mid 2024. We hope to announce something at Munich high end show 2024. May be sooner.
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That has been pushed out to mid 2024. We hope to announce something at Munich high end show 2024. May be sooner.
thanks I will wait for
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Regarding High End streaming DAC mid 2024.
In which series/level will that be in?
I am now testing Evo DAC-2, and it is amazingly good, nothing less.
But I am wondering if it would be better to wait for the upcoming streaming DAC?
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The Evolution series will have two streaming models: IDA-32 (we talked about this for sooooooo loooong, sorry) and streaming transport. I am not sure integrating a streamer with a high-end Evo DAC-2 is a good design choice. The product will be more expensive, but less in performance.
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I have two questions about Evo Two amplifiers.
I'm enjoying ST-10M for some years. Wonderful amplifier. Is the Evo Two, as far as sound signature, an upgrade to ST-10M or does it go in different direction?
Second, what is the peak output current and will Evo Two drive 2 Ohm loads?
Many thanks, Srdjan