AudioCircle
The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Rocky Mountain Audio Fest => Topic started by: zybar on 11 Oct 2008, 04:13 pm
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Everybody,
Can we use this thread to collect all thoughts and comments on the show by AC members?
This way we have one place to look for all that great posts.
Thanks,
George
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bump
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Great show, I just got home. It will take awhile to digest it all and gather my thoughts, but I'll post them as I get them together. Many of our AC Mfrs had terrific rooms and it was a real treat meeting so many people and putting faces to names....
Fire away with any questions in the meantime, I'll do my best....
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How did the room the SPTech gear sound... And what was the best sounding system at RMAF?
Mike
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Spent the afternoon in the Marriott going from room to room listening to a variety of systems. After awhile seems like sensory overload. I did spend some time talking with Klaus Bunge of Odyssey and listening to his latest lineup of products - the Kismet line. Kismet mono blocks and speakers are an upgrade to the previous stratos monos and lorelei speakers. The amplifier cases are a little smaller than the stratos and speakers are still two way bass ported but now sit on their own wooden outriggers and the wiring has been upgraded from the lorelei design. The amps and kismet speakers looked and sounded wonderful. At around $3200 per pair these speakers are a bargain. The soundstage with the Kismet upgrades were wider and deeper than the stratos/lorelei line....the system sounded great even in the hotel room. Thanks Klaus for continuing to improve your product line and keeping your prices looooow - one of the best values for the money IMO.
Others in the room seemed equally impressed. The good news for us stratos owners is the glass ceiling upgrade now available for the stratos brings the stratos to equal performance with the kismet amplifiers. I can see my bank account draining in the future for the upgrade.
- Martin
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The SP Tech room was quite enjoyable and we spent some time in there with Mike and Ted B (good dudes)...the bass the Revelations put out is something else, that's a terrific speaker....nothing downright I'd find fault with, maybe some more treatment...but I have a new respect for how tough the shows and room situations can be for these guys...
Didn't really think of it in terms of best...there were many rooms I went back to repeatedly...Radiho really surprised me with how good their speakers were...the VAC/VS room was really something...Danny's big room at the Hyatt rocked, the UltraFi DAC is really special, Duke's room was sweet and had some of the best off-axis we heard, Vinnie's room and his new stuff with the WLM was very nice, Avalon and VTL sounded great, Rethm and AMR I liked an awful alot, Jim and Frank did themselves proud, Wayne's room was very nice...there was a bunch of good rooms too many to recall so I fear I'm leaving some off...
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I came to RMAF with the intention of getting some ideas for my next speaker build project, but I ended up ordering a pair of the Odyssey Audio "Kismet" speakers. This is Klaus' new speaker design and it sounded great! I can only hope they will sound as good when I get them set up in my listening room. There are many other nice sounding speakers at RMAF, but I considered Klaus' speakers to be the best value at the show. Nothing even comes close at that price point.
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Hi Art
Care to share some more details on the Ultra fi Dac and Amps
I imagine these were paired with the RSAD Speakers, How was the sound ?
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Room 541 gave a demonstration comparing vinyl with SACD. I was surprised that I preferred the vinyl. I never expected that vinyl could beat out SACD in a side by side comparison. I recommend stopping by their room if you get a chance. Also, the Chario speakers in that room sounded VERY nice.
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Pics.. with commentary plz :)
:thumb:
Mike
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I didn't spend enough time in the RSAD room to give a fair evaluation, but the UltrFi gear sounded flat out good....particularly when the DAC was in the big AV123 room at the Hyatt....how's that for subjective and lacking detail? :o
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I took no pics, sorry. Also wanted to add that Bill Baker's new Purity Preamp is really great..it was in the AMR/Rethm room, very nice work Bill!
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Hi Art,
Was UltraFi showing the IRoc or their new dac? Thanks!
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UltraFi was showing their new DAC in RSAD and AV123 with the LS9's. It is a big time keeper for sure. The best sound I heard was probably a tie depending on tastes - between the Scaena line sources and the Kaiser "Kawero!" that used the awesome RAAL ribbons from Serbia. The Scaena room had the new DCS DAC with a monster VTL amp and subs. All three speakers I heard with the RAAL's, including Ryan's at BPT were sounding very good. One big surprise was the new Krell speaker and KAST electronics. Not dark and sterile like the Krell of old. Easily the best bass I heard, though the top end didn't quite measure up to it (still very good).
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A few I liked...
Tidal Speakers / Lamm hybrid monoblocks were maybe the most neutral system I heard... they were also incredibly resolving yet very easy to listen to. It was a close tie with the Merlins driven by Joule Electra OTL monoblocks though. This was another very impressive system in terms of neutrality and the ability to disappear and let the music come through.
Oswalds Mill Audio had some solid cherry speakers using a 15" woofer, a ribbon tweeter w/ waveguide, and a midrange compression driver in a solid cherry horn. Driven with a 2A3 SET amp. This was the most startlingly real sax I have ever heard reproduced, and the dynamcs were incredible. They had no digital front end though.
MBL... huge sound, pretty cool
ViV Labs evanui speaker... a 3" single driver BLH covering 50-30k Hz @-6 dB. It has no surround, but just floats in this gasketed chamber. The cone weighs almost nothing, I'd guess a gram or so. Sounded great.
Feastrex.... a very wide range single driver. The 5" field coil drivers sounded great, as did the Maxxhorns, which have unbelievable bass response. Very cool speakers.
Selah Audio... new line arrays with 32 little woofers and 8 ribbons. If you like line arrays, this one is very fast and detailed and has exceptional dynamics.
SP Tech.... they deserve their growing reputation. I just heard the minis and they sounds a lot bigger than they are, and they're a good value as well.
I only saw a small fraction of what was there, but there are a lot of nice systems.
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I second the odyssey room. One of the two best sounds at the show. I ended up buying the complete Kismet system and my brother in law bought a Lorelei Stratos system. The sound in this room is unbelievable.
Nicolas
Martin, it was nice to talk to you.
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Sounds like an amazing show this year with excellent rooms and lots of new, breakthrough products. :thumb:
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I also have to give a big :thumb: to
The BIG Van Schweikert speakers. These things are exceptional.
Ridge Street Audio and UltraFi. Clear, transparent and neutral. Did everything well.
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I also have to give a big :thumb: to
The BIG Van Alstine speakers. These things are exceptional.
Ridge Street Audio and UltraFi. Clear, transparent and neutral. Did everything well.
Big Van Alstine speakers???
Do you mean the Salk HT3's?
George
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Sorry, its all a jumble :green:
I meant the Gigantic Van Schweikerts in one of the big rooms on the 2nd level of the tower. The Salks w/ Van Alstine gear were a great value, but not quite on par with the speakers costing 100x more. I am considering auditioning a Van Alstine dac among a few others...
original post edited...
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Sorry, its all a jumble :green:
I meant the Gigantic Van Schweikerts in one of the big rooms on the 2nd level of the tower. The Salks w/ Van Alstine gear were a great value, but not quite on par with the speakers costing 100x more. I am considering auditioning a Van Alstine dac among a few others...
original post edited...
Once they got the VAC and Von Schweikert VR9's dialed in, it was pretty incredible....now if my wife would just lighten up about $90K speakers... :nono:
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C'mon Art, we had some folks down to at least $46K! She should be thrilled with the savings. :wink:
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lol... this is going to end badly, I can tell! :D
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No, I can't tease Kharma, I will let sleeping dogs lie and know that she can support certain ranges of spend....
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Heres a photo of the Kismet amps and speakers from Odyssey audio:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51403/2008_RMAF_Kismet_amps%2Cspeakers.JPG)
Great sounding room!!
- Martin
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The VAC/Gershman room sounded really good today, although some bass traps would have gone a long way! Big speakers with deep, impactful bass have a real hard time when bounded top and bottom by concrete floors and ceilings...
After hearing Wayne's updated VMPS 626 SDE's and the new Bamberg speakers, I'm even more convinced than ever that active crossovers - at least to the bass section of a speaker - are absolutely worth exploring on any speaker. In a similar vein, I really enjoyed my first chance to hear the Orions, which I've been anticipating for a very long time. (I would have loved to talk to Dr. Linkwitz, but he was fully engaged every time I stopped by.) The Emerald Physics CS2s, while excellent, didn't sound quite as exceptional as I remembered them sounding last year - assuming my audio memory is actually any good that far back. I heard the CS1s briefly, but never got back to talk to Clayton or spend quality time in the sweet spot - too crowded. (Too bad SonicWeld couldn't make it this year - they've always done active systems well, and I'm always interested in what Josh is doing with the DEQX.)
More comments later when I have time...
No, I can't tease Kharma, I will let sleeping dogs lie and know that she can support certain ranges of spend....
The speaker company? :wink: No worries - we tease because we're still amazed at just how "lightened up" she already is!!
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One more comment before I forget... I was really impressed with the Raidho C2s as well, although I really wanted to hear the C3s (in the Nordost room) to see if they were more dynamic. Did anyone actually get a chance to hear them in a meaningful fashion without an interruption by the quantum physics lecture?
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We both really wanted to come (first year we have missed...), but he was just too busy and my personal life is too "active" right now to have taken the time away.
It is too bad as the latest version of the Sonicweld Pulserod's are the best yet, IMHO. Now that I have moved back to Utah and close to Josh, I get to spend quite a bit of time with the newest version and it is really special.
We'll be there next year with bells on! Probably showing an all new system that is currently under development.
Keep the reports coming, I have been enjoying them all so far!
Peace,
Lee
(Too bad SonicWeld couldn't make it this year - they've always done active systems well, and I'm always interested in what Josh is doing with the DEQX.)
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How much are the Kismet speakers going to be?
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How much are the Kismet speakers going to be?
I believe Klaus said they are in the $3200.00 range.
- Martin
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The show was relatively 'quiet' compared to last year. I didn't see audiocircle members occupying the bars as they used to do in the previous years.
Two speakers stood out - one has the worst sound that ever come out of a pair of $60k speakers (Yokohama),
(http://www.vivaudiolab.com/E-evanui_signature_gallery_files/IMG_3942.jpg)
another has the worst sound that ever come out of a pair of $50k speakers (Audio Note). :duh: :lol:
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The show was relatively 'quiet' compared to last year. I didn't see audiocircle members occupying the bars as they used to do in the previous years.
Two speakers stood out - one has the worst sound that ever come out of a pair of $60k speakers (Yokohama), another has the worst sound that ever come out of a pair of $50k speakers (Audio Note). :duh: :lol:
Barry,
Sorry to hear that it was quiet compared to previous years.
Any comments on what rooms you liked? I am especially interested in hearing about the AC vendors who were at the show.
How about some pictures as well?
Thanks,
George
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Missed you George....
but I made it to jetBlue...and they made good time back to NY... 8)
Barry...
.... I didn't see audiocircle members occupying the bars as they used to do in the previous years.
They were there...Friday night....many for their first trip to RMAF. :thumb:
The show was relatively 'quiet' compared to last year.
It did look like a few less....but you had two hotels with audio rooms (free shuttle between the two)....and some may have gone to the beer fest as well.
The Marriott was sold out...and most of the rooms at the Hyatt were filled.
Weather was cloudy Friday....rainy on Saturday....and part of Sunday.
I did go to most of the AC manufacturers rooms....but since I'm up over 24 hours now...I'll post some comments later.
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cough, cough..."impactful?" aa
The VAC/Gershman room sounded really good today, although some bass traps would have gone a long way! Big speakers with deep, impactful bass have a real hard time when bounded top and bottom by concrete floors and ceilings...
After hearing Wayne's updated VMPS 626 SDE's and the new Bamberg speakers, I'm even more convinced than ever that active crossovers - at least to the bass section of a speaker - are absolutely worth exploring on any speaker. In a similar vein, I really enjoyed my first chance to hear the Orions, which I've been anticipating for a very long time. (I would have loved to talk to Dr. Linkwitz, but he was fully engaged every time I stopped by.) The Emerald Physics CS2s, while excellent, didn't sound quite as exceptional as I remembered them sounding last year - assuming my audio memory is actually any good that far back. I heard the CS1s briefly, but never got back to talk to Clayton or spend quality time in the sweet spot - too crowded. (Too bad SonicWeld couldn't make it this year - they've always done active systems well, and I'm always interested in what Josh is doing with the DEQX.)
More comments later when I have time...
No, I can't tease Kharma, I will let sleeping dogs lie and know that she can support certain ranges of spend....
The speaker company? :wink: No worries - we tease because we're still amazed at just how "lightened up" she already is!!
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Weather was cloudy Friday....rainy on Saturday....and part of Sunday.
And this morning we have snow! (Not much, but the shady spots do have a dusting...)
cough, cough..."impactful?"
Yeah, yeah... :P Give a guy a break when he's in a hurry - I'm trying to help the language evolve! :)
(Hey, that's better than "impacted" base! :o )
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I though the low end on those was impactificating...
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Eeeeeeveryone is a comedian this morning! :)
Off to the airport to kick the RMAF refugee out... and then I have to go back to work. Ugh!
More (on topic) comments later. Art, can you send me the track list for your demo disk when you get a chance? (The dual-Spanish guitar Stairway to Heaven continued to be a hit in every room we demoed for the rest of the show... we actually had applause by the Gershman Acoustics folks when it was done! Literally every playing resulting in someone writing down the artist's name.)
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Rodrigo y Gabriela is the pair that do the acoustic Stairway to Heaven for everyone reading...I think it won "Track of the Show"
I'll post the rest tonight when I get home from work....
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I will gather may thoughts and give impressions on individual rooms later but I will say I really enjoyed meeting people in person. It was a pleasure to hang with the AC members at the Bar and at the steak house. I also enjoyed meeting and chatting with the AC manufacturers in their rooms. I also had a great fortune to get in long chats with Roger Sanders (Sanders Audio), Thom Mackris (Galibier), Peter Ledermann (Soundsmith), and Peter McAlister (McAlister Audio). You can really learn some things from these guys. I liked these small rooms where I got to talk to the designers and reps more than the big rooms with mega gears even though some had quite impressive sounds.
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This was very different for me as I helped out my friend Mike Garner (tweekgeek.com) and ran one of his rooms. Sadly I wasn't able to get out and listen and had time to only hear 1 room the entire weekend.
What I did take away from the show was a renewed sense of just how tastes vary. Observing reactions and comments to the system for three days really drove home just how different people perceive things. Everything from 30 seconds of listening and obviously hating it to folks who came in 4-5 times over three days and spent several hours in the room loving it.
This is one of those things I knew but the show really drove it home.
A huge thanks to the AC folks who stopped by the room to chat, it really breaks up the monotony and helped keep me relatively sane. :)
mike
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I am surprised that there was no AC member pictures this year during the show. Anyone out there have pictures they will be posting?
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I am surprised that there was no AC member pictures this year during the show. Anyone out there have pictures they will be posting?
I only took mental pictures Bill, and those got erased with Friday's drinking.... :lol:
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I enjoyed the SP Tech Mini's and the Joseph Audio Pearls. The Pearls had a too narrow sweet spot though.
I also liked the Scaena speakers but they didn't play any music that I was familiar with to make a good comparison.
I was also suprised at how the big Focal speakers sounded on the mezzanine. They sounded better that when I heard large Focals before. It must have been the amps.
The Salks sounded better than last year but they were still limited by the small room.
Bob
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Rodrigo y Gabriella were @ Coachella last year and they played Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" with the entire audience singing the lyrics. One of the stand out moments of the festival.
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I thought the show came off really well. I found several new bright spots.
GR Research, i.e. Danny Richie, designs were the class act. The X-Static with the Servo subs were awesome for the price point. Even better was the collaboration with Tyler Acoustics new Decade D1, which was my favorite room at the show. Ty and Danny hit a home run with that speaker. :D :D :D And of course both the LS-6 with Channel Islands and the LS-9 with the "Big Dodd Monsters" are always good.
To me the LS-6 is still the speaker to beat. For most people, in the majority of most rooms, I believe this is "THE" choice most people should choose. The drivers are so clean and the imaging is as good as you will hear, this speaker just sounds right.
I personally like not being crowded while at the show, it allows you to demo the music.
Travis Manuel
I took some pics but they didn't turn out that well, not really good enough to post.
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LS6es lasted one week at my house and were sent back. I'm surprised to see your enthusiasm for them.
Is the Decade a speaker?
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This was the first high end show I've ever attended and it more than lived up to my expectations. Sorry I missed AliG and Zybar, but there were quite a few ACers there. I'm sure they will chime in soon: Mr. Humble, Richidoo, Bigfish.... A big shout out to Lonewolf for "organizing" bar and restaurant time.
One great speaker that deserves its hype is the Reference 3A Grand Veena. IMHO the best sound for the buck at the show. Two great bangs for the buck were the SP Minis and the VMPS SDE. Those $60k Japanese speakers were godawful - I wouldn't buy them at any prce.
I plan to go again next year if we still have an economy then.
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LS6es lasted one week at my house and were sent back. I'm surprised to see your enthusiasm for them.
Is the Decade a speaker?
Different people have different ears aa aa
A friend of mine just bought a $15k Von Schweikert speakers after listening to it at the show, they're powered by Audiospace preamp/amp. To my ear, that was one of the most unlistenable room (too much high frequency brittleness, and no bass). But my friend thought these speakers were God-sent :o :o Who am I to tell him that his ears are worse then mine?? :lol: :lol:
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I am surprised that there was no AC member pictures this year during the show. Anyone out there have pictures they will be posting?
Hello Bill...
Sorry we couldn't chat a bit....I was at the front desk checking in when Joe handed me the phone...things got a little "screwed up"... :?
Friday was just a crazy day.... :duh:
I had asked Captain Humble to take a few photo's ...but we never got around to it...time just flew by....
But I did see many other photographer's "snapping" photos. I sure more will surface.
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Hi Scotthobby,
I have attended many audio shows in my lifetime and I would have to agree the Reference 3a Grand Veenas are amazing loudspeakers for the price.What I find amazing about them Is in the UK they retail for $16000.00 pounds and here in Canada they only 8000.00 to 9200.00 a pair.Even better value here and there so unrecognized.
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Different people have different ears aa aa
Having heard many speakers....Barry is correct. There is no "perfect" speaker for everyone....if there was....we'd all own the same one.. :wink:
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Sorry we couldn't chat a bit....I was at the front desk checking in when Joe handed me the phone...things got a little "screwed up"...
No problem Chris. It was a pleasure to speak with you if only to say 'hi' for a few seconds.
I'm sure there will be further coverage surfacing over the next few days. It just seems that in previous years, there was more day-to-day coverage.
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Trying not to judge anything at a show like this can be tough. One has to always bear in mind how difficult it would be to uproot your entire system, ship it to a hotel, and basically have one day (or less) to get adequate enough sound out of it to hopefully satisfy hundreds of wanderers... never-mind the noise :duh:
That said, I had a good time - and wish I had more time to stop by and see everything.
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Sorry we couldn't chat a bit....I was at the front desk checking in when Joe handed me the phone...things got a little "screwed up"...
No problem Chris. It was a pleasure to speak with you if only to say 'hi' for a few seconds.
I'm sure there will be further coverage surfacing over the next few days. It just seems that in previous years, there was more day-to-day coverage.
Thanks Bill....same here... :thumb:
There were a number of NY Ravers there...and we do have a large variety of "tastes"...so I think when they get a chance some will post what they heard...liked or disliked. 8)
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Different people have different ears aa aa
Having heard many speakers....Barry is correct. There is no "perfect" speaker for everyone....if there was....we'd all own the same one.. :wink:
Couldn't agree more...I'm never surprised when someone's tastes are different from my own....
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Oh yeah... if you need cabling, DH Labs offered distributor pricing at the show (1/2 of retail). Since they didn't have the cable I needed, their rep extended the offer to this week as well. His email is greg [AT] silversonic [DOT] com. I have a new D-75 digital cable on the way...
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Hi Scotthobby,
I have attended many audio shows in my lifetime and I would have to agree the Reference 3a Grand Veenas are amazing loudspeakers for the price.What I find amazing about them Is in the UK they retail for $16000.00 pounds and here in Canada they only 8000.00 to 9200.00 a pair.Even better value here and there so unrecognized.
I have to second or third the Reference 3a's. FrankS convinced me to go hear them right before I left and I'm glad I did. As a long time Merlin owner, these are a real shot directly at their game. They had great bass, and a very natural, not in your face midrange, with sweet extended highs. Setup was with Quicksilver pre and mono 70's. I could listen to these all day very happily.
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Off to the airport to kick the RMAF refugee out... and then I have to go back to work. Ugh!
Someone's gotta be the caboose on the train!
This was my first appearance at RMAF, but I enjoyed it more than my past tours of CES. It was great to meet some faces and associate the AC names.
I think exhibitors did a great job making the most of their rooms. Hopefully, those that were window shopping took that into account. If anything, it's a great way to narrow down one's demo list and pinpoint what products to follow up on.
Thanks to Captain Humble for making dinner arrangements Saturday night!
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I really enjoyed RMAF, this is the first time I've ever gone. Of course, It was really great to meet everybody from AC. I was amazed at the magnitude of the whole thing, and sensory overload (as somebody mentioned) does really set in. My wife hit her limit on Sunday and went shopping.
I should have snapped pictures. I guess I'm too introverted (or something), but it feels weird for some reason I can't put my finger on to take photos. I also felt weird asking for exhibitors to play non-audiophile approved recordings; I think it may be that musical taste is very personal and nobody wants to be the one to piss off a room full of jazz fans, or for that matter an exhibitor, by playing their favorite Clem Snide tune. So, there was a lot of Norah Jones, Kind of Blue, breathy female vocalist and piano songs. I did hear some moe and Vampire Weekend, so there were exceptions.
I didn't listen to every system, but my favorite sound at the show among those I heard was in the Eventus Audio room: Lysithea speakers, Audio Analogue electronics, and Transparent cable. Everything sounded effortless, natural, and extremely involving--way more than I can afford, but I can dream.
I was also extremely impressed by SP Technology, the speed, immediacy, and live quality of the sound was very striking. The SP Tech fans are really on to something. I felt like I had just left a concert after visiting that room. 1100 Watts of Spectron amplification had something to do with that too, I'm sure.
The Ridge Street/Ultra-Fi room sounded amazing, among the best in my opinion. The only problem is the amps ran out of juice during louder passages, which is too bad because the music really drew me in.
I thought the era and Peachtree room was one of the most fun. Just about everybody who came in asked where the sub was located, and I was not the only one who was shocked to learn it was all coming from the little D5 (I think that was the model), and the price was shockingly low, $1100/pair if I remember correctly.
The av123 x-statics are crazy good for crazy cheap, $799/pair. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that the hotel room put the listener a little closer than ideal for these speakers, but I thought the sound was quite good even without considering the price.
I was so impressed with the ACI sapphire XL driven by Korato electronics that I bought a pair. This will give me (and my wife) more flexibility in speaker position. This way, I won't have to have a ten foot minimum distance to achieve stellar sound. I would be remiss not to mention the GIK room treatments; I know if I were an equipment manufacturer I would absolutely want to share a room with GIK. Thanks for everything, Bryan (bpape).
Anyway, I'm completely leaving out massive amounts of remarkable stuff, but these are the things that stick out in my mind right now.
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I am partial to Blue Circle gear, and I really liked their room. A new preamp (DAC and phono stage to follow) that runs completely on charged capacitors. Totally off the grid, no battery needed, almost infinite charge/recharge cycles. Very impressive technology with real sonic benefits. Gilbert is working on an amp, but it's likely far in the future as cost and short play time are constraints. They also had their new speaker, which is a modified Ohm Walsh omni, very promising.
I thought the most impressive sound at the show was the Scaena at the Hyatt, left me speechless.
Also good was the new top of the line Vienna Acoustics speaker and the German Ascendo.
Hated the horn systems at the show, but I have'nt found a horn I like yet. Some of the waveguide based speakers were OK, but not totally my thing.
Show seemed less crowded. Overall, lots of fun.
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Sadly, I was only able to attend one day - but I got to see a lot of wonderful speakers.
The best of show was the Orion - Hands down. I don't think I have heard anything nearly as satisfying. Sadly, with a 2-year old in the house, I will have to wait to build one. This is the speaker to beat and I have not heard better.
I am also very glad I got to meet SL and shake his hand. It was an honor.
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Wow, I was just shocked to find that I'm now unbanned! :hyper: So I'd like to share a few pics from our room. If anybody visited the room and would like to share thoughts - good or bad - I'd appreciate it. Personally, I couldn't have been happier with how the room sounded. We went for a value theme this year, the entire front-end, amps, and speakers would cost around $10K ... and it sure seemed to me that it held it's own with any of the similar sized rooms. Some of the larger rooms were simply at another level though, I think my favorite from the weekend was the Raidho Ayra in the Nordost room. Those speakers just imaged perfectly, up and down, back and forth. And with perfect timbre to my ears, in fact I found nothing less than stellar about them.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/2941887029_74d18e30e5_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/2941886893_3207b3781d_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/2941886669_9c1feebe9e_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/2941886955_331f046c61_o.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2941886835_d892b7a612_o.jpg)
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Welcome back, Ryan! :thumb:
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I only had a day and a half to listen as I had to work Friday. That just limited me to staying at the Marriott and not even venturing out to Hyatt. As it was, I didn't get to all the rooms I wanted. I particularly wanted to get to Odyssey, AVA, Salk Audio and Emerald physics but couldn't. Next time, I am going to arrange to have Friday off as well.
Audio Kinesis: Duke is every bit as nice in person as he is on line. Planetarium with Swarm was an easy room to like. It had big relaxed sound that invite you to plop down and listen for a long time. Duke has the honor of being my very first room at an audio show ever....
Laufer Teknik/Podium Speakers/Teres: I waked into the best Billie Holiday ever. The planar speakers did not go very low but the midrange was gorgeous. The highs were very good too -- not piercing. I really felt like Billie was singing in the room and that's a great achievement because I usually hear Billie like a she was singing in another room. The combination of Teres TT and the Podium planars really brought vibrancy to Billy that I had not heard before. When he switched to CD, the magic disappeared.
Classic Audio/Galibier TT (Triplanar and Dynavector xv1s): Very Dynamic with T-3 speakers. Thom was very busy but he was a gracious host. I like these horns -- very intimate but yet fast and dynamic. BTW, he recommends The Best Tractor from http://www.mintlp.com/best.htm (http://www.mintlp.com/best.htm) I think I am going to order one.
ACI/Korato/Bolder SB: I met Mike and he save me a notepad and entered me in the drawing like I asked. What a nice guy! XL's were pretty impressive speakers that throw a wide sound stage. Dynamics were excellent.
Divergent Tech (ASL Hurricane 2/Reference 3A Grand Veeder: What presence! The room was filled with music in every which way. It was just about perfect.
Modwright: What can you say except Dan is a gentleman and a scholar. The new SS amps were not at all brittle. Music had a lot of warmth and intimacy. I really would like to audition the Transporter.
Maxhorn Lumination: Surprisingly good music from a single driver horn. Jennifer Warne's The Well sounded so natural from a "modest" Technics SP10 fitted onto a custom wood plinth/base. I wanted to stay and listen to the whole album -- I was invited to come back after hours to do that but just couldn't find the time. Nice folks.
Bolder/VMPS: I finally met Wayne. I accidentally locked the door behind and had his attention for a while. 626jr sounded way better than it had the right to at the price Big B. is selling them. I am sure Wayne's SB rebox and Mike G. modded crossover has a lot to do with it. I definitely want to audition the tubed rebox in my room.
Tweekgeek/SP Tech/Spectron: I had met these guys the night before. By the time I got there, the Mini's were gone and the Revelation was just put in. BIG SOUND! Unfortunately, it was going through set up pains and I left before things were sorted out. I met the SP Tech crew in the elevator later and I was told that new speaker cables were brought in and the whole set up was much improved. Bob was in the room next to me. :o I went back and they certainly lived up to all the praises from AC crowd. I heard just a little hint of brittleness on top that I would like to try my big tubed Response Audio Bella Extreme/Hurricanes on them. I say this because I have tried Response Audio modded AV1s on my amps and they really sounded clean without any hint of metallic tinge. It may also have had something to do with the Exemplar (SA)CD player that they used.
Analysis Audio: I met Mike Galusha. It was nice to finally meet him. AC folks are just the nicest people. These panels put out a lot of bass. I just like planars and these were no exception.
Balanced Power: I met the infamous Turbo. He is actually cool dude who dresses well. He had an interesting monitor design that sounded very good. Nothing extraordinary but well balance sound throughout.
Focal/Aesthetix/Clearaudio: Very impressive looking set up. The speakers reminded me of a T-Rex fossil wired together in a natural history museum. The Grand Master TT with magnetically coupled belt drive is quite a sight. The room was big and I couldn't really get engaged in the music. I would love to try the Aesthetix IO Eclipse though....
McIntosh: Blue. Nice sound too.
Acapella: WOW. BIG. Giantic images smack you in the face and you feel the music with your whole body. I would like them if I had a cavernous audio room.
Avantgarde: I never heard these with SS amp before. The in-house amp actually worked quite well. They let me listen to the whole second side of Bax 6th Symphony. Big goose bumps. They have a lot of variations at each level now. The Uno I heard did really well with micro-dynamics. They conveyed every nuances of Bax' orchestral music to really get you emotional with the music.
Time out: I have to run now -- I will get more later.
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Thanks to all who stopped by. Didn't get to spend as much time meeting and chatting with all the AC'ers as I'd have liked to but such is the game. I can't really add a lot as I really didn't get to listen to much other than 4-5 rooms.
The Bolder room was the best I've heard it. The 626 Jr's with the heavily modified Behringer was a very nice fit for the room. Very easy to listen to, very balanced, more and better bottom end than a single driver of that size should put out. I'll second the desire to hear the all in one SB piece in my system in familiar circumstances.
SP Tech - only got to listen about 10 minutes and they were still playing with setup so it was hard to say. Based on what I heard, they have a lot of potential with the Spectron amps. It was just a lot for that room. I'd absolutely love to hear them with a little more room to breathe. I'm sure they're quite impressive.
Analysis Audio (Apogee clones) in Mike Garner's room staffed by Mike Galusha - again, not much of a listen but from what I heard, they sounded MUCH better than they had the last 2 years. Didn't really get to listen to anything familiar or sit in the sweet spot to make much of a judgement but my opinion of them now is much better than what it had been in the past. Certainly a testament to Mike Galusha's engineering.
SoundSmith - Absolutely magical. This is the only room besides our own that I actually got to listen for 20 minutes or so. We were waiting for Jon Pousette-Dart to perform live. We had treated his studio last year in upstate New York and wanted to meet him in person - great guy. He is the first release on the DirectGrace Recordings project from which all funds to go help kids in bad situations in many countries for a variety of reasons. Great cause.
Listening to recordings in there with the strain gage cartidges and not sure what speakers was one of those systems that just didn't do much of anything wrong and did so so much right. Very natural, engaging, easy to listen to, etc.
Bryan
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I will have to 4th the Grand Veenas! I couldn't make the show this year, but I still remember them from last year's Fest, and they still stick in my mind as extremely musical, natural, very easy to listen to, with wonderful imaging.... they were driven by Antique Sound Labs gear at the time. It was refreshing change of pace to enter that room and to just listen to the music and relax. My ears craved that break!
Hi Scotthobby,
I have attended many audio shows in my lifetime and I would have to agree the Reference 3a Grand Veenas are amazing loudspeakers for the price.What I find amazing about them Is in the UK they retail for $16000.00 pounds and here in Canada they only 8000.00 to 9200.00 a pair.Even better value here and there so unrecognized.
I have to second or third the Reference 3a's. FrankS convinced me to go hear them right before I left and I'm glad I did. As a long time Merlin owner, these are a real shot directly at their game. They had great bass, and a very natural, not in your face midrange, with sweet extended highs. Setup was with Quicksilver pre and mono 70's. I could listen to these all day very happily.
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Wow, I was just shocked to find that I'm now unbanned! :hyper:
Welcome back Ry :thumb:
Hey, those speakers sure are shiney :lol:
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I really thought the Raidho's were exceptional as well....
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I will have to 4th the Grand Veenas! I couldn't make the show this year, but I still remember them from last year's Fest, and they still stick in my mind as extremely musical, natural, very easy to listen to, with wonderful imaging.... they were driven by Antique Sound Labs gear at the time. It was refreshing change of pace to enter that room and to just listen to the music and relax. My ears craved that break!
In the Reference 3a room Tash was switching between the Grands and the new Episodes paired with ASL.
I agree Mark, very enjoyable to listen to. :thumb:
Lin
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Balanced Power: I met the infamous Turbo. He is actually cool dude who dresses well. He had an interesting monitor design that sounded very good. Nothing extraordinary but well balance sound throughout.
Would you admit that you have bias against the amps and front-end we were using? You did comment on that to me while listening ...
I'm not asking to cast any shadow on comments you might make, but because Chris and I are looking to go a different direction for next year and talked all weekend about what we should use to help project a more accepted first impression. Neither of us are big tube fans, but we're both thinking we need something glowing up front so that people won't have their mind made up before sitting down.
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Balanced Power: I met the infamous Turbo. He is actually cool dude who dresses well. He had an interesting monitor design that sounded very good. Nothing extraordinary but well balance sound throughout.
Would you admit that you have bias against the amps and front-end we were using? You did comment on that to me while listening ...
I'm not asking to cast any shadow on comments you might make, but because Chris and I are looking to go a different direction for next year and talked all weekend about what we should use to help project a more accepted first impression. Neither of us are big tube fans, but we're both thinking we need something glowing up front so that people won't have their mind made up before sitting down.
For me it was just the opposite. I was more impressed with the Cirrus speakers given they were driven by the ICE amps fed by your lap top. I would love to hear them driven by something - shall we say - more refined. But seeing they sounded as good as they did, I have little doubt they will sound over the top when driven by higher quality amplification and a fancy ass source.
And at their price point I would say they did sound exceptional.
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For me it was just the opposite. I was more impressed with the Cirrus speakers given they were driven by the ICE amps fed by your lap top. I would love to hear them driven by something - shall we say - more refined. But seeing they sounded as good as they did, I have little doubt they will sound over the top when driven by higher quality amplification and a fancy ass source.
And at their price point I would say they did sound exceptional.
Thanks for saying that ... the idea we had was a "recession system" that still sounds fantastic. I just don't know if it turned people off. For example, Chris (BPT founder) is friends with Michael Fremer. They spoke literally right outside our door, Michael said he'd come in for a listen, but didn't and all I can assume is because we were too 'ghetto' for him. We did get more requests for formal reviews than I'll have any chance of accomodating, I guess that's good.
Hard to know what to do in order to appeal to a value market, but not be looked down on by the rest. So honestly any input would be appreciated. We ran computer audio the Off-Ramp, into a TacT pre, into ICE amps ... does seeing an all 'digital' stack influence your opinion, should we put some tube/analog gear up front to alleviate that?
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For me it was just the opposite. I was more impressed with the Cirrus speakers given they were driven by the ICE amps fed by your lap top. I would love to hear them driven by something - shall we say - more refined. But seeing they sounded as good as they did, I have little doubt they will sound over the top when driven by higher quality amplification and a fancy ass source.
And at their price point I would say they did sound exceptional.
Thanks for saying that ... the idea we had was a "recession system" that still sounds fantastic. I just don't know if it turned people off. For example, Chris (BPT founder) is friends with Michael Fremer. They spoke literally right outside our door, Michael said he'd come in for a listen, but didn't and all I can assume is because we were too 'ghetto' for him. We did get more requests for formal reviews than I'll have any chance of accomodating, I guess that's good.
Hard to know what to do in order to appeal to a value market, but not be looked down on by the rest. So honestly any input would be appreciated. We ran computer audio the Off-Ramp, into a TacT pre, into ICE amps ... does seeing an all 'digital' stack influence your opinion, should we put some tube/analog gear up front to alleviate that?
Michael Fremer is a pretty laid back cat. Hes been to a couple of NY Raves and thats about as ghetto as it gets! :D
Draw conclusions now.
Mike
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How much are they?
EDIT--Answered my own question by reading another thread, $2495. Nice.
Peace,
Lee
And at their price point I would say they did sound exceptional.
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If you get that defensive at "nothing extraordinary" you are in the wrong business.
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If you get that defensive at "nothing extraordinary" you are in the wrong business.
Woodsyi said they sound good, why would I be defensive? I'm just asking for input on our room, and things we can do to avoid potential bias ... that's all.
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Michael Fremer is a pretty laid back cat. Hes been to a couple of NY Raves and thats about as ghetto as it gets!
Draw conclusions now.
Mike
Cat .....yes but who is the mouse Mike? :scratch:
Cheers
...............but away, nice system and love the Steve's digital approach. :drool:
If you are reading it Steve, I am very close to have another conversation with you.
This time - all about finalizing the details and few questions.....or more like advise seeking "Q"s. aa
Mariusz Stark :thumb:
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Michael Fremer is a pretty laid back cat. Hes been to a couple of NY Raves and thats about as ghetto as it gets!
Draw conclusions now.
Mike
Cat .....yes but who is the mouse Mike? :scratch:
Cheers
...............but away, nice system and love the Steve's digital approach. :drool:
If you are reading it Steve, I am very close to have another conversation with you.
This time - all about finalizing the details and few questions.....or more like advise seeking "Q"s. aa
Mariusz Stark :thumb:
The mouse would be a speaker or piece of tubed equipment with a tail of course....
so sinister... perhaps a turntable hell bent on revenge?
idk... this story is just getting started.
Mike :green:
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Michael Fremer is a pretty laid back cat. Hes been to a couple of NY Raves and thats about as ghetto as it gets!
Draw conclusions now.
Mike
Cat .....yes but who is the mouse Mike? :scratch:
Cheers
...............but away, nice system and love the Steve's digital approach. :drool:
If you are reading it Steve, I am very close to have another conversation with you.
This time - all about finalizing the details and few questions.....or more like advise seeking "Q"s. aa
Mariusz Stark :thumb:
The mouse would be a speaker or piece of tubed equipment with a tail of course....
so sinister... perhaps a turntable hell bent on revenge?
idk... this story is just getting started.
Mike :green:
Or the latest hit on DVD? :roll:
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...............but away, nice system and love the Steve's digital approach. :drool:
If you are reading it Steve, I am very close to have another conversation with you.
This time - all about finalizing the details and few questions.....or more like advise seeking "Q"s. aa
If you're talking about Steve from Emperical and the Off-Ramp 3, I'm going to be buying one myself. Both Chris and I thought it was significantly better than a full-modded SB3.
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...............but away, nice system and love the Steve's digital approach. :drool:
If you are reading it Steve, I am very close to have another conversation with you.
This time - all about finalizing the details and few questions.....or more like advise seeking "Q"s. aa
If you're talking about Steve from Emperical and the Off-Ramp 3, I'm going to be buying one myself. Both Chris and I thought it was significantly better than a full-modded SB3.
Yes, however if it is going to be off ramp3 or something else......I am not yet 100% sure.
My option is either Sonos (which I have) or Macbook that will feed Isabellina (Red Wine Audio DAC that is build in my preamp. Coax, optical, BNC and USB ins).
I have visited Steve's room during 2008 CES and was very impressed.
Mariusz
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Balanced Power: I met the infamous Turbo. He is actually cool dude who dresses well. He had an interesting monitor design that sounded very good. Nothing extraordinary but well balance sound throughout.
Would you admit that you have bias against the amps and front-end we were using? You did comment on that to me while listening ...
I'm not asking to cast any shadow on comments you might make, but because Chris and I are looking to go a different direction for next year and talked all weekend about what we should use to help project a more accepted first impression. Neither of us are big tube fans, but we're both thinking we need something glowing up front so that people won't have their mind made up before sitting down.
Ryan,
I do have a tube bias but it's because they consistently give me more enjoyment. I also use an Acuphase class A amp which I like. I also use ICE amp monoblocks on my woofers because they are great at that. But I don't use the same ICE amp on my mid/high because they suck at it. I don't use my tube amps on my woofers either for the same reason.
I don't conciously prejudge any gear. I had Steve's I2S off ramp. I still have his Pace Car with my SB3 and Northstar transport. I wouldn't knock you for digital front end because I know they are good. I would be glad to report different findings if you want to send them to me and I find them irresistable with my amps.
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For me it was just the opposite. I was more impressed with the Cirrus speakers given they were driven by the ICE amps fed by your lap top. I would love to hear them driven by something - shall we say - more refined. But seeing they sounded as good as they did, I have little doubt they will sound over the top when driven by higher quality amplification and a fancy ass source.
And at their price point I would say they did sound exceptional.
Thanks for saying that ... the idea we had was a "recession system" that still sounds fantastic. I just don't know if it turned people off. For example, Chris (BPT founder) is friends with Michael Fremer. They spoke literally right outside our door, Michael said he'd come in for a listen, but didn't and all I can assume is because we were too 'ghetto' for him. We did get more requests for formal reviews than I'll have any chance of accomodating, I guess that's good.
Hard to know what to do in order to appeal to a value market, but not be looked down on by the rest. So honestly any input would be appreciated. We ran computer audio the Off-Ramp, into a TacT pre, into ICE amps ... does seeing an all 'digital' stack influence your opinion, should we put some tube/analog gear up front to alleviate that?
Ryan....
MF may have run out of time...these shows go fast. :?
He is a big vinyl fan.....and not much for digital amps.
But....who knows.. :scratch:
I thought the system was good.... :thumb:
Chris
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For me it was just the opposite. I was more impressed with the Cirrus speakers given they were driven by the ICE amps fed by your lap top. I would love to hear them driven by something - shall we say - more refined. But seeing they sounded as good as they did, I have little doubt they will sound over the top when driven by higher quality amplification and a fancy ass source.
And at their price point I would say they did sound exceptional.
Thanks for saying that ... the idea we had was a "recession system" that still sounds fantastic. I just don't know if it turned people off. For example, Chris (BPT founder) is friends with Michael Fremer. They spoke literally right outside our door, Michael said he'd come in for a listen, but didn't and all I can assume is because we were too 'ghetto' for him. We did get more requests for formal reviews than I'll have any chance of accomodating, I guess that's good.
Hard to know what to do in order to appeal to a value market, but not be looked down on by the rest. So honestly any input would be appreciated. We ran computer audio the Off-Ramp, into a TacT pre, into ICE amps ... does seeing an all 'digital' stack influence your opinion, should we put some tube/analog gear up front to alleviate that?
If I were to admit to having reservations about your set up (and I am not) I would say it was not the digital aspect of the front end (What's an Accuphase or Ayre CDP if not digital front ends?) but the DSP nature of the front end. I know that DSP is becoming more and more important to getting good sound out of system and room but I just don't like auditioning speakers with DSP involved. I want to hear the speakers straight from the source without any correction applied. If great speakers sound like crap then, then there is something wrong with the synergy of the system. I want to hear your speakers sounding as best as you can get them to sound and I am skeptical when I see a TACT or a Behringer in the stack.
I know the Tact was used as your Dac and your crossover for the subs and that there was no FR correction used but on Sunday when I thought the system sounded different you explained you had adjusted the subs output down a few db. You were just tweaking your sound. Others move their speakers around or try different cables, you drop the subs output a bit and get the same result. Right? Right. But I want to hear the speakers not the TAct.
I sat and listened happily to your and Chris' system three or four times during RMAF but if I saw an Ultramizer in your room, even I would have walked out. :nono:
To answer your question whether tube amps and/or a more conventional source might make your speakers appeal to a larger audience I would say a system built to produce the best possible sound is the way to go. Do you think you could have a better sounding system using tubes and a TT?
I think your set up sounded great but I would like to hear the speakers through tubes and a TT too. But that's just me.
Anyway...I am curious what others think.
Is adding DSP to a system a cheat or is DSP just another way to achieve system synergy?
Probably a topic for a different thread.
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If I were to admit to having reservations about your set up (and I am not) I would say it was not the digital aspect of the front end (What's an Accuphase or Ayre CDP if not digital front ends?) but the DSP nature of the front end. I know that DSP is becoming more and more important to getting good sound out of system and room but I just don't like auditioning speakers with DSP involved. I want to hear the speakers straight from the source without any correction applied. If great speakers sound like crap then, then there is something wrong with the synergy of the system. I want to hear your speakers sounding as best as you can get them to sound and I am skeptical when I see a TACT or a Behringer in the stack.
I know the Tact was used as your Dac and your crossover for the subs and that there was no FR correction used but on Sunday when I thought the system sounded different you explained you had adjusted the subs output down a few db. You were just tweaking your sound. Others move their speakers around or try different cables, you drop the subs output a bit and get the same result. Right? Right. But I want to hear the speakers not the TAct.
I sat and listened happily to your and Chris' system three or four times during RMAF but if I saw an Ultramizer in your room, even I would have walked out. :nono:
To answer your question whether tube amps and/or a more conventional source might make your speakers appeal to a larger audience I would say a system built to produce the best possible sound is the way to go. Do you think you could have a better sounding system using tubes and a TT?
I think your set up sounded great but I would like to hear the speakers through tubes and a TT too. But that's just me.
Anyway...I am curious what others think.
Is adding DSP to a system a cheat or is DSP just another way to achieve system synergy?
Probably a topic for a different thread.
Thanks for the feedback ... I've said the same to Chris about the TacT, and it possibly making people think we're using processing when we're not. I know you don't get enough time to explain things, and initial response is usually what they walk out with. So the people that only sit down for a song and don't ask might very well walk out thinking we're doing all sorts of EQ'ing.
Sunday morning we came into the room and Chris said to me "I think we have too much bass on the monitors". I just said whatever, sounded good to me. So he made a new setting, but with xover at 50hz instead of 55hz ... and about 1 db less to the subs, then switched between them on the fly. I thought it sounded better with the lower sub setting, but I think I remember you saying it sounded better the day before. But didn't I also play two crappy tracks for you on Sunday to start? I should have known not to play tracks I hadn't heard before for somebody.
Hey, you know your sub probably has a volume knob on the back too :lol: We didn't do anything with the TacT that the volume knob can't do, just saying. Didn't we also play them for you without subs? The tall ribbons though, they HAD to have full room correcting and EQ'ing to work. I think we both tried to make that clear to anyone who heard them.
Are there better amps than the ICE stuff, definately! Would a TT improve on our source setup? That I'd have a harder time believing. One thing Chris and I agree on is to keep the stack of gear as visually unobtrusive as possible, a tall stack right in the middle of the image is very distracting ... so I can't see us spinning vinyl. The right tube gear though, no reason why we wouldn't give that a shot.
Ultramizer, hahaha!
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Here's my take on the show:
General Impressions: A mix of old and new technologies: squeezebox vs analog turntables and tape decks. There were quite a few turntables at the show. Analog is making a minor comeback. There were even two or three reel-to-reel tape decks. A lot of rooms were using a stock or modified squeezebox as the source. Generally, the sound quality was better than the CES, T.H.E. show, and Stereophile shows that I attended in past years. There were some unusual designs, especially with loudspeakers. Many loudspeaker cabinets were clad in exotic and expensive wood veneers, and the finishes on most of these were exquisite.
I didn’t have enough time to experience every room (estimate 80% of exhibits), but of the rooms I attended there were nine or ten systems that stood out for me. I have and have had both tube and solid state equipment. My audio preference/taste tends to be slightly warm of neutral tonally, but at the same time enjoying good detail and resolution. The reader should bear that in mind when reading my comments that follow.
Very Expensive: The system that “rocked my boat” the most was Swiss Da-Vinci electronics driving Scottish A.R.T. loudspeakers, imported by the Tangram audio group. Listening to CDs, what I heard was an absence of digital glare and electronic artifact that I normally experience in almost all digital playback equipment to a lesser or greater degree. While that in itself is commendable for the listener who likes the “analog sound,” what sold me was the amount of detail and resolution I was hearing from track after track of the demos I played. The system blended warmth and musicality, with enough resolution and detail, to recreate a presentation that I was listening to the performer(s) live, and not an electronic device. I played “Labour of Love” by Frente (Angie Hart), and “Falling or Flying” by Grace Potter and the Nocturnals, and “Wheels on Fire” by the Magic Numbers. All three vocals sounded as real as I have ever heard them. Ed Cramer (fellow Acer) played a Dayna Kurtz and Noah Jones duet, and a Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds song and had the same reaction. The Da-Vinci turntable produced equally satisfying results.
Expensive: To my ears, two other systems sounded top-notch: 1) the Merlin loudspeakers, Joule Electra electronics and Cardas cable room; 2) Avalon loudspeakers, VTL electronics, and Cardas cable room. They both gave a more hi-fi presentation than the Da-Vinci/ART system but both systems were still a thoroughly enjoyable listening experience. The Merlin/Joule/Cardas combo was slightly closer to neutral than the Avalon/VTL combo. Both Ed and I played the same songs that we used in the Da-Vinci/ART system. The Audio Notekit room was closely behind these two systems, and had the best dynamic range of any system at the show. I played the first four minutes of Beethoven’s Piano Sonata No.23 (Appassionata), performed by Mari Kodama, which has the greatest dynamics (from soft to loud) of any cd in my collection. I almost fell out of my seat when it went from very soft to extremely loud. I’ve never heard a greater dynamic difference before in any system. Vocals were not as real sounding as the previously mentioned systems though still very nice.
Relatively Expensive: There were several very nice sounding systems: 1) Roberts Acoustics/Vincent electronics had great punch and bass impact, great with the rock selections Ed and I played. 2) ACI/Korato/GIK/DH Labs room had a well balanced and musical sound. Very engaging sound. 3) Selah Audio/Moon Audio had extremely good treble and mid-range. Vocals sounded great generally, except for an occasional slight brightness. I think the room cause that though. 4) VMPS/Boulder Cable/GIK room sounded similar to the ACI/Korato room. Well balanced and engaging sound. There were a few other rooms that sounded really nice but I forgot to take notes: Salk/Van Alstine , Studio Electric/Benchmark Media, Triode Corp.
Affordable: Virtue, the $249 Model One amp is a great value. Jolida had a reel-to-reel deck and played The Doors, “The End” which sounded great with their equipment. Grant Fidelity had good and musical sounding equipment in their room.
The most disappointing system/component: Kef Muon loudspeaker. It sounded bland no matter what music was played. Maybe the room was too small for such a large speaker. I don’t know. I had heard a smaller Kef speaker at the NYC Stereophile two years ago, and I thought it was one of the best speakers at that show.
The most unusual: Evanui Signature loudspeaker by Yokohama Baysidenet. ET has landed. The sound was okay, but I didn’t hear any real bass. This is not surprising since only a single 3” driver is used without a surround and housed in a bowling pin shape cabinet. For $60,000 though, I want bass! Workmanship is top notch. It looks like it takes many labor hours to construct the cabinet.
Paul
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Thanks for the feedback ... I've said the same to Chris about the TacT, and it possibly making people think we're using processing when we're not. I know you don't get enough time to explain things, and initial response is usually what they walk out with. So the people that only sit down for a song and don't ask might very well walk out thinking we're doing all sorts of EQ'ing.
Sunday morning we came into the room and Chris said to me "I think we have too much bass on the monitors". I just said whatever, sounded good to me. So he made a new setting, but with xover at 50hz instead of 55hz ... and about 1 db less to the subs, then switched between them on the fly. I thought it sounded better with the lower sub setting, but I think I remember you saying it sounded better the day before. But didn't I also play two crappy tracks for you on Sunday to start? I should have known not to play tracks I hadn't heard before for somebody.
Hey, you know your sub probably has a volume knob on the back too :lol: We didn't do anything with the TacT that the volume knob can't do, just saying. Didn't we also play them for you without subs? The tall ribbons though, they HAD to have full room correcting and EQ'ing to work. I think we both tried to make that clear to anyone who heard them.
Are there better amps than the ICE stuff, definately! Would a TT improve on our source setup? That I'd have a harder time believing. One thing Chris and I agree on is to keep the stack of gear as visually unobtrusive as possible, a tall stack right in the middle of the image is very distracting ... so I can't see us spinning vinyl. The right tube gear though, no reason why we wouldn't give that a shot.
Ultramizer, hahaha!
You guys did a great job explaining everything in the system to me during RMAF. You played a track or two without the subs. I don't remember any crappy tracks but we clicked through a bunch to find one we all liked. I sat with Chris and listened to the ribbons too. That was a blast. As for a tweak here or a tweak there - I think I said the same thing in five other rooms too - "What'd you do? It sounds different today." :scratch:
Maybe the answer is to have a tubes and class D in the room next time, have some fancy ass source and the streaming solution too. Make everybody ask, "When can I hear them on/with the XXX"
Also, I was really surprised at how many people would walk into a room, LOOK at the gear and just walk out, never listening to a note. I swear it struck me as the strangest thing. In any room I visited there would be 5 people in 30 minutes who did this - at least. I guess their expectations weren't met when they LOOKED at the gear. Weird. At least to me. I would just ask what was up and at least listen for a while.
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I thought the Jaton room with Operetta amps sounded great, very live. Although, I was a little put off by the open-cover amp revealing black covers to hide the secret technology which is said to produce 300 W of Class A with very little heat. I can understand being protective and what not, but I had to laugh when somebody said after leaving that room, "Ancient Chinese secret, huh?" just like the 1970s water softener commercial.
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Sorry gents I put this pic / write link in the wrong place, anyways here's what some of us "Logan Nuts" had to offer up.......
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7410
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Also, I was really surprised at how many people would walk into a room, LOOK at the gear and just walk out, never listening to a note.
Two words:
Body Odor
Bob :wink:
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I thought the Jaton room with Operetta amps sounded great, very live. Although, I was a little put off by the open-cover amp revealing black covers to hide the secret technology which is said to produce 300 W of Class A with very little heat. I can understand being protective and what not, but I had to laugh when somebody said after leaving that room, "Ancient Chinese secret, huh?" just like the 1970s water softener commercial.
I thought the Jaton room sounded very nice as well. And they were right across the hall from us, so I got to listen quite a bit. I've found that many of the Chinese designed speakers are a bit thin in the bass, and the Jatons were as well ... but nothing necessarily wrong with that. Honestly I prefer lean bass myself. I thought the Jaton speakers were quite articulate and accurate, and they were more dynamic that I expected.
AB - so are you the guy who brought his wife on Sunday? Or am I thinking of the wrong person? It definately did change sound all on it's own from day to day, every component had something that was still breaking in. I'm still shocked at how well those $1 per watt amps sounded. Maybe next year we'll just stick them in some massive case with lots of polished brass and bolt heads :icon_lol:
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Also, I was really surprised at how many people would walk into a room, LOOK at the gear and just walk out, never listening to a note.
Two words:
Body Odor
Bob :wink:
Man, we were in the linkwitz room and someone cleared the place...most awful moment of the show for me.... :o
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Also, I was really surprised at how many people would walk into a room, LOOK at the gear and just walk out, never listening to a note.
Two words:
Body Odor
Bob :wink:
Ha, not it OUR room. Does this guy look like he smells?
(http://www.stereomojo.com/ROCKY%20MOUNTAIN%20AUDIO%20FEST%202008%20SHOW%20REPORT/images/DSC_0104.jpg)
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Continuing from a page back.
Hansen/Balanced Audio/dCS: I heard good things about this room so I went in on Sunday morning. May be it was the heightened expectation but it sounded a little blasé. I couldn't find anything wrong even when listening for it but the music just didn't gel together. For this kind of money I want some emotional pull but there wasn't any.
Lansche/Wavac/Continuum Criterion: Hey, this is the only room where I crossed path with Lonewolf and Captain Humble. They were playing Carmen overtures. I was really getting into the music when the requester stopped the music to leave. I was a little discombobulated when Chris nudged me to play my record. Once again I got to listen to the second side of Bax' 6th (Lyritas). I got lost in the music, again. I was emotionally drained after. I decided then that I am not going to listen to Bax again for a while. The whole inner conflict that Bax resolves in this symphony is just too much emotions to relive one after another. Anyway, I would take this system home.... ....if I win a lottery. :roll: I am going to keep track of the plasma tweeters now.
McAlister Audio: It's been a while since I heard the Acoustats. They were singing in this room. I didn't catch all the different models he had out there but the ones driving the stats were doing great. When electrostats are driven by good tubes with the right impedance, they can get really special with voices and acoustic music. They were doing that. The bass wasn't the best but it was good enough to give a good foundation.
Soundsmith: Peter did a fabulous retip job on my ZYX Airy 3 and I really wanted to listen to the Strain Gauge Cartridge system. I say a system since phono stage comes mated with the cartridge. Some one was playing an acoustic recording of the Who (or was it just Daltry?). It sounded good but I wasn't too keen on Daltry's singing. Then he played a guitar solo (Soundsmith recorded) that was really good like you were sitting right in the room. I wanted something more dynamic and he put on a orchestral piece that did just that. The monitors he used loaded this room just right and the Strain Gauge set up really worked in this room. I wish he had a good conventional analog pickup there to compare. Anyway, I left very impressed. Maybe somewhere down the road, I may go with the Strain Gauge....
Sander's Sound System (10B ultrastats/ESL amp/Tascam SS-R1): At the end of the day Saturday, I got a chance to really audition this set up for nearly one half of an hour alone with Roger Sanders. No fancy front end here. Just the music (.WAV ?) files loaded on a CF card playing on a stock pro gear. There must have been enough output voltage to drive the ESL amp directly. The speakers are actively biamped with a built in digital crossover that is housed in the woofer amp that comes with the speakers. I was really impressed with the dynamic cones that kept up with the ultra fast stats. Apparently, he uses custom made woofers with low Q and a TL woofer enclosure along with a digital (dsp?) crossover to achieve this seamless integration. I really enjoyed the audition. The sound was faster than the Acoustats in the McAlister room. It may have been a bit leaner too but it still conveyed soprano voices (O Mia Babbino Caro) without any shrillness. I still use his old ESL amp on my Soundlabs but this version is faster. These speakers just give you that feeling that they can do anything. They will slam with thunderous impact or be as gentle as a zephyr buffeting a baby's cheek. I will need to check out how the built in digital crossover works with an analog source but Sander's 10B is a possibility in the future.
Rethm Saadhana: I was really looking forward to these speakers but something was off in the room when I was there. I must have been the room as the bass was flabby. With mushy bass, the mids and highs just don't click in. I would love to have heard these in a better room. They are not as big as I envisioned.
Rocky Mount Audio Big Horns: These were the surprise pleasure of the show for me. This local company from Littleton, CO has got a heck of a bass horn that is really musical. To boot, he was running it with midfi and vintage gear. Gerrard TT, Adcom preamp, vintage McIntosh tube amps, and cheap wires. The folded horn is a work of beauty and I would love to try these on some of my amps. They would be a pain to ship though....
Redwine/WLM: I got to meet Vinnie. Boy, has Vinnie come a long way since he first appeared on AC. :thumb: Vinnie was gracious to demonstrate his phonostage by ABing against his DAC. Since both units have very close output voltage, we just had to synchronize the vinyl and the digital source and switch back and forth. There is a house sound with Redwine. Among the various red wine varietals, I would say Vinnie's redwine is a Pinot Noir -- silky, floral, layered and tasty. The vinyl (Schroeder Model2/Allaert) soared more than the DAC in delicate high passages but there were more like than different. They both portrayed music in a lyrical flow and while the details were there, they were not etched. Redwine is aptly named as the house system is very liquid. If I must criticize, I would like to have heard the system on a bigger pair of speakers.
In looking back, attending the show has given me a sense of what kind of sound I like and how that may be different from others. In some ways it's an inward journey to your audio soul. All in all I had a great time and I just have to do it again next year. And I am going to get Friday off for the next one. Thanks for reading.
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I agree- those Lansche speakers were incredible, best in show. Simply stunningly beautiful presentation of music. In a show situation it's extremely hard to get past really good stereo into "on my God" territory. That room did it. I think that you could pair them w/ much more reasonably priced electronics and have world classe sound.
Another good one was the Wilson Benesch (sp) coupled to the new DeHaviland amps.
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Also, I was really surprised at how many people would walk into a room, LOOK at the gear and just walk out, never listening to a note.
Two words:
Body Odor
Bob :wink:
Man, we were in the linkwitz room and someone cleared the place...most awful moment of the show for me.... :o
lol...
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Also, I was really surprised at how many people would walk into a room, LOOK at the gear and just walk out, never listening to a note.
Two words:
Body Odor
Bob :wink:
Bob,
:lol: Good thing I wasn't eating anything while reading this. The food particles would have been all over my body!
Paul
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Rethm Saadhana: I was really looking forward to these speakers but something was off in the room when I was there. I must have been the room as the bass was flabby. With mushy bass, the mids and highs just don't click in. I would love to have heard these in a better room. They are not as big as I envisioned.
Just curious when you heard these speakers. There was an issue early on but was taken care and the system really came around. This was one of the rooms in which our Musica Bella Purity preamp debuted in.
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Ha, not it OUR room. Does this guy look like he smells?
Most definitely not Ryan. No way there's any bad smells in that room.
Especially when you're standing between about 13 running feet of Sharper Image Ionic Air Purifiers.
No way it could smell. :wink:
{My apologies Chris. Please don't be mad at me.}
Bob
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Ha, not it OUR room. Does this guy look like he smells?
Most definitely not Ryan. No way there's any bad smells in that room.
Especially when you're standing between about 13 running feet of Sharper Image Ionic Air Purifiers.
No way it could smell. :wink:
{My apologies Chris. Please don't be mad at me.}
Bob
Haha! Your wit is especially sharp today I see ...
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Yea, thanks Ryan. But I'll quite while I'm ahaid. :wink:
Otherwise you and Chris Hoff (BPT) will take me out behind the wood shed and beat me like a... :deadhorse:
Bob
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Also, I was really surprised at how many people would walk into a room, LOOK at the gear and just walk out, never listening to a note. I swear it struck me as the strangest thing. In any room I visited there would be 5 people in 30 minutes who did this - at least. I guess their expectations weren't met when they LOOKED at the gear. Weird. At least to me. I would just ask what was up and at least listen for a while.
The two reasons I do this are: 1) after 3 shows in a row I have heard a few of the systems before and 2) if the room was crowded I tried to stop by another time.
Sooooo many rooms, sooooo little time.
Lin
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AB - so are you the guy who brought his wife on Sunday? Or am I thinking of the wrong person? It definately did change sound all on it's own from day to day, every component had something that was still breaking in. I'm still shocked at how well those $1 per watt amps sounded. Maybe next year we'll just stick them in some massive case with lots of polished brass and bolt heads :icon_lol:
That was me, probably. Not many wives around the Marriot during Audiofest. :D
And your room will forever be remembered as the room "with the candle".
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Here's my take on the show:
General Impressions: A mix of old and new technologies: squeezebox vs analog turntables and tape decks. There were quite a few turntables at the show. Analog is making a minor comeback. There were even two or three reel-to-reel tape decks. A lot of rooms were using a stock or modified squeezebox as the source. Generally, the sound quality was better than the CES, T.H.E. show, and Stereophile shows that I attended in past years. There were some unusual designs, especially with loudspeakers. Many loudspeaker cabinets were clad in exotic and expensive wood veneers, and the finishes on most of these were exquisite.
I didn’t have enough time to experience every room (estimate 80% of exhibits), but of the rooms I attended there were nine or ten systems that stood out for me. I have and have had both tube and solid state equipment. My audio preference/taste tends to be slightly warm of neutral tonally, but at the same time enjoying good detail and resolution. The reader should bear that in mind when reading my comments that follow.
Very Expensive: The system that “rocked my boat” the most was Swiss Da-Vinci electronics driving Scottish A.R.T. loudspeakers, imported by the Tangram audio group. Listening to CDs, what I heard was an absence of digital glare and electronic artifact that I normally experience in almost all digital playback equipment to a lesser or greater degree. While that in itself is commendable for the listener who likes the “analog sound,” what sold me was the amount of detail and resolution I was hearing from track after track of the demos I played. The system blended warmth and musicality, with enough resolution and detail, to recreate a presentation that I was listening to the performer(s) live, and not an electronic device. I played “Labour of Love” by Frente (Angie Hart), and “Falling or Flying” by Grace Potter and the Nocturnals, and “Wheels on Fire” by the Magic Numbers. All three vocals sounded as real as I have ever heard them. Ed Cramer (fellow Acer) played a Dayna Kurtz and Noah Jones duet, and a Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds song and had the same reaction. The Da-Vinci turntable produced equally satisfying results.
Expensive: To my ears, two other systems sounded top-notch: 1) the Merlin loudspeakers, Joule Electra electronics and Cardas cable room; 2) Avalon loudspeakers, VTL electronics, and Cardas cable room. They both gave a more hi-fi presentation than the Da-Vinci/ART system but both systems were still a thoroughly enjoyable listening experience. The Merlin/Joule/Cardas combo was slightly closer to neutral than the Avalon/VTL combo. Both Ed and I played the same songs that we used in the Da-Vinci/ART system. The Audio Notekit room was closely behind these two systems, and had the best dynamic range of any system at the show. I played the first four minutes of Beethoven’s Piano Sonata No.23 (Appassionata), performed by Mari Kodama, which has the greatest dynamics (from soft to loud) of any cd in my collection. I almost fell out of my seat when it went from very soft to extremely loud. I’ve never heard a greater dynamic difference before in any system. Vocals were not as real sounding as the previously mentioned systems though still very nice.
Relatively Expensive: There were several very nice sounding systems: 1) Roberts Acoustics/Vincent electronics had great punch and bass impact, great with the rock selections Ed and I played. 2) ACI/Korato/GIK/DH Labs room had a well balanced and musical sound. Very engaging sound. 3) Selah Audio/Moon Audio had extremely good treble and mid-range. Vocals sounded great generally, except for an occasional slight brightness. I think the room cause that though. 4) VMPS/Boulder Cable/GIK room sounded similar to the ACI/Korato room. Well balanced and engaging sound. There were a few other rooms that sounded really nice but I forgot to take notes: Salk/Van Alstine , Studio Electric/Benchmark Media, Triode Corp.
Affordable: Virtue, the $249 Model One amp is a great value. Jolida had a reel-to-reel deck and played The Doors, “The End” which sounded great with their equipment. Grant Fidelity had good and musical sounding equipment in their room.
The most disappointing system/component: Kef Muon loudspeaker. It sounded bland no matter what music was played. Maybe the room was too small for such a large speaker. I don’t know. I had heard a smaller Kef speaker at the NYC Stereophile two years ago, and I thought it was one of the best speakers at that show.
The most unusual: Evanui Signature loudspeaker by Yokohama Baysidenet. ET has landed. The sound was okay, but I didn’t hear any real bass. This is not surprising since only a single 3” driver is used without a surround and housed in a bowling pin shape cabinet. For $60,000 though, I want bass! Workmanship is top notch. It looks like it takes many labor hours to construct the cabinet.
Paul
I found some loose show notes, so I’ll add this to my earlier post:
I’m not usually a fan of horns because of the cupping effect, but I didn’t experience that in the Avantgarde/Audio Aero/Brinkmann room. The system was quite open sounding and seemed tonally balanced.
The Orion/Linkwitz Labs room was really nice soundstage wise. These speakers have a large sweet spot. I was sitting on the side, listening to a classical selection provided by someone sitting in the middle seat, and was impressed that I could hear the different sections of the orchestra in the right locations, as if I was sitting in the middle instead.
The Pure Vinyl room was cool. They make software and phono preamps which transfers LPs into CDs. You can actually see the LP spinning on the Apple monitor. I have one of the transferred CDs and I’m amazed by how it sounds so analog, compared to a standard CD. This is a must have software if anyone is planning on converting their LP collection to CDs.
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Sterophile gave kudos to Mike Garner's (TweekGeek) room with the Analysis panel speakers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=16475)
http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2008/101208silence/?
Physicist Jack Bybee of Bybee Technologies has now licensed his quantum purification nanocarbon technology to David Caplan's new company, Bybee Wire. Distributed by Laufer Teknik, the new Bybee Wire cables and power purifier include Bybee devices that clean up quantum mechanical noise at the sub-atomic level.
To these ears, the Bybee products made the happiest sound in the Tweek Geek room. There, Analysis Audio Omega speakers ($22,000/pair), which actually needed more room to breathe than the room allowed, Modwright SWL 9.0 preamp ($2500), Spectron Musician 3 Mk.II monoblock amplifiers ($7195 each), Bybee Wire AC Conditioner ($4500) and two AC cords ($2995 each), Stereovox Reference interconnect ($1995), and Elrod Remote Sense speaker cable ($1500) produced impressive full range orchestral sound that was very fast and clear. It also produced wonderful clarity (if not the most detailed presentation) on vocals. The system was silent enough to easily reveal differences in recording technique on recent CDs by two exceptional male choral groups: Chanticleer's wonderful new Mission Road, and Cantus' John Atkinson-engineered There Lies Home. Need I say which recording won the engineering award?
According to Mike Garner, it was actually my (as yet unnamed) $799 power cords with integral power conditioner that powered those Spectron amps.
Everybody knows :lol: that Kaplans with a 'K' are far superior to Caplans with a 'C'.
Regards,
Paul (Kaplan with a K)
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According to Mike Garner, it was actually my (as yet unnamed) $799 power cords with integral power conditioner that powered those Spectron amps.
Everybody knows :lol: that Kaplans with a 'K' are far superior to Caplans with a 'C'.
Regards,
Paul (Kaplan with a K)
Paul,
Yep, your cords were feeding the Spectron amps and I'm sure they were helping them to perform their best. I figured you could name them Occam's Lazer - The power cord that set's your AC straight. :D
I should have tried on the source, maybe I can convince Mike to bring one over.
mike
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Yep, your cords were feeding the Spectron amps and I'm sure they were helping them to perform their best. I figured you could name them Occam's Lazer - The power cord that set's your AC straight. :D
I should have tried on the source, maybe I can convince Mike to bring one over.
mike
Mike,
Wow! That's a great name. May I please use it?
Mike Garner hasn't had a chance to evaluate the source version of the cord/conditioner yet (the one with the fuse). I think you'd like them. The most frustrating part of this whole process of developing a conditioner, has been the realization of how much of an impact the cord and connectors have, regardless of how effective the conditioner may be. After many an hour of evaluations and experimentation, I found a combination that not only gave (IMO, as well as among others) a lower total end user price as well as better performance than other alternatives. I'm considering offering the cords without the built in conditioner for those components that actually deal with conditioning issues internally, like my CAT preamp and your modded DCX9624.
Occam's Lazer Dang, I like that!
Many thanks,
Paul
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AB - so are you the guy who brought his wife on Sunday? Or am I thinking of the wrong person? It definately did change sound all on it's own from day to day, every component had something that was still breaking in. I'm still shocked at how well those $1 per watt amps sounded. Maybe next year we'll just stick them in some massive case with lots of polished brass and bolt heads :icon_lol:
That was me, probably. Not many wives around the Marriot during Audiofest. :D
And your room will forever be remembered as the room "with the candle".
I brought my wife, too. She enjoyed it...to a point. By Sunday morning she'd had enough and split for the mall. Apparently, she later had a conversation with co-workers in which she played the role of audio expert; she surprised herself at how much she'd gleaned from exposure to the audio scene.
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According to Mike Garner, it was actually my (as yet unnamed) $799 power cords with integral power conditioner that powered those Spectron amps.
Are you saying that your pc/conditioner operates on the sub-atomic level? Just how far down are we talking about here? :lol:
Congrats, even if you didn't get the credit as per Stereophile.
Occam's Lazer...catchy name by the way.
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Rethm Saadhana: I was really looking forward to these speakers but something was off in the room when I was there. I must have been the room as the bass was flabby. With mushy bass, the mids and highs just don't click in. I would love to have heard these in a better room. They are not as big as I envisioned.
Just curious when you heard these speakers. There was an issue early on but was taken care and the system really came around. This was one of the rooms in which our Musica Bella Purity preamp debuted in.
Bill,
It was Saturday morning. I did not know you had your preamp there until the day was over. I tried to go back Sunday but I couldn't make it. I have been wanting to listen to Rethm for a while and I was looking forward to a great sound. May be I was expecting too much. :| Anyway, I don't think it's your preamp's fault. I didn't see any room treatment in the room and the speaker positioning seemed a little odd but what do I know about horns. I would like to hear them again when they are set up for good sound. I would like to hear your preamp too. I am sure it's good if the past performance is any indication.
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I spokw with Wes yesterday about his Hansen show experience. I haven't seen much discussion here about the sound in that room. Stereophile had a picture (with big Wes standing there looking like a bass trap) and a great sound comment that was buried in the many pages of coverage on their website.
Wes thought they may have been overshadowed because the big Clearaudio TT and Focus speakers were in the room next to him. So, any comments on the Hansens?
Bob
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Mike,
Wow! That's a great name. May I please use it?
Mike Garner hasn't had a chance to evaluate the source version of the cord/conditioner yet (the one with the fuse). I think you'd like them. The most frustrating part of this whole process of developing a conditioner, has been the realization of how much of an impact the cord and connectors have, regardless of how effective the conditioner may be. After many an hour of evaluations and experimentation, I found a combination that not only gave (IMO, as well as among others) a lower total end user price as well as better performance than other alternatives. I'm considering offering the cords without the built in conditioner for those components that actually deal with conditioning issues internally, like my CAT preamp and your modded DCX9624.
Occam's Lazer Dang, I like that!
Of course. I have actually been meaning to email you about that, it came to me either Friday or Saturday. It's amazing how much crap one can think up while sitting in a chair talking about audio for 9 hours. :)
mike
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I spokw with Wes yesterday about his Hansen show experience. I haven't seen much discussion here about the sound in that room. Stereophile had a picture (with big Wes standing there looking like a bass trap) and a great sound comment that was buried in the many pages of coverage on their website.
Wes thought they may have been overshadowed because the big Clearaudio TT and Focus speakers were in the room next to him. So, any comments on the Hansens?
Bob
I loved the Hansens.
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Hi gang, i had the privilege to stop by the b-p-t room two days in a row with extended listen on each.
day one impression.: the first thing i noticed was the clarity and accuracy of the raal ribbon. this is the first time i can say that i heard high that were extremely detailed and yet non-fatiguing. i felt the mid-high blend and transition was not clicking,and i wanted a touch more juicy/warmth but there was a good overall tonality. ryan already heard my take at the show so this is no surprise to him. i did fall in love with the midbass. it matched my cd pretty well. when i played tonal bass (upright, acoustic, percussion) there was no problem. when i played the lows it did not bottom out but it rolled off and grcefully showed it's limits. it did have an ability to pop you with it's impact . that was good. so day one was about an 8 out of 10 due to the midhigh issiues i mentioned earlier.
day two. all the previously mentioned good parts, were there. and then the warmth and mid/highs seamlessness locked in. a little change like that made the sound more lifelike and enjoyable. break-in can make a big diff. then they also addd the subs from the other system. then i felt like it was money. it scored a 12 out of 10 because it just gotme in my goodspot. if it ain't broke then don't try to fix it. good job ryan and chris. :green:
i also need to make a quick edit here. the other constant i felt i noticed, from day 1 , was the ability to react to each track with appropriate soundstage and imaging.i'd call it scaleablilty. i played everything from large orchestra to evgeny kissin playing mussorgsky solo, to a female vocal wit piano accompaniment. it did a great job handling the spatial changeup i played. so when the system broke in on day 2, it ALL clicked and sounded phenomenal.
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I spokw with Wes yesterday about his Hansen show experience. I haven't seen much discussion here about the sound in that room. Stereophile had a picture (with big Wes standing there looking like a bass trap) and a great sound comment that was buried in the many pages of coverage on their website.
Wes thought they may have been overshadowed because the big Clearaudio TT and Focus speakers were in the room next to him. So, any comments on the Hansens?
Bob
I was very briefly in the room, said hello to Wes, and sat for a few minutes while he entertained play requests. Then, it got busy, and I never put my requests in. For that 5-10 minutes or so in there, I liked the Emperors. I thought it had good transparency. That's about all I could/should say I guess about this most brief encounter. Afterthought - I'm not sure if I may have found it to be a tad on the bright side, since I like warm and fuzzy but not muddy kind of musicality. I later did try the room again, but it was packed with people again.
On the other hand, the Emperor carries a $60K tag. I later heard the new Vienna Acoustics floorstander (what was the model?) and was very impressed. I probably would take a pair of the VA @$27K before I'd buy a pair of Hansen. Not that I don't like the Hansen, just that I think the VA is a better value. The VA has its mid driver mounted on top, and it's moveable so the setup can be better tuned/set up. Gimmick? Probably not.
This is my perception, personal, not meaning to offend Wes and/or the Hansen folks. Besides, I am not familiar with the other electronics connected to these speakers, I can be all wrong.
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Hi gang, i had the privilege to stop by the b-p-t room two days in a row with extended listen on each.
day one impression.: the first thing i noticed was the clarity and accuracy of the raal ribbon. this is the first time i can say that i heard high that were extremely detailed and yet non-fatiguing. i felt the mid-high blend and transition was not clicking,and i wanted a touch more juicy/warmth but there was a good overall tonality. ryan already heard my take at the show so this is no surprise to him. i did fall in love with the midbass. it matched my cd pretty well. when i played tonal bass (upright, acoustic, percussion) there was no problem. when i played the lows it did not bottom out but it rolled off and grcefully showed it's limits. it did have an ability to pop you with it's impact . that was good. so day one was about an 8 out of 10 due to the midhigh issiues i mentioned earlier.
day two. all the previously mentioned good parts, were there. and then the warmth and mid/highs seamlessness locked in. a little change like that made the sound more lifelike and enjoyable. break-in can make a big diff. then they also addd the subs from the other system. then i felt like it was money. it scored a 12 out of 10 because it just gotme in my goodspot. if it ain't broke then don't try to fix it. good job ryan and chris. :green:
Hey Steve, thanks so much for posting your thoughts! And it was a pleasure meeting you at the show. We didn't know each other before the show, but I'm honored to have earned you as a fan.
That day 1, I remember it well ... we talked down in the lobby afterward and you said to me "that midrange just wasn't happening". That struck me as strange since I just wasn't hearing what you were. But then day 2 I came into the room and it was very different sounding, V-Caps all over the place and other stuff breaking in will do that! After about the first 30 minutes of listening day 2 it was apparent how much more body and richness there was. And it really didn't hit me till you came back later that day and said how much better it was, but I thought to myself "that dude's got some good ears". Seriously my man, come over anytime and help me voice stuff out! :thumb:
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Hey Steve, thanks so much for posting your thoughts! And it was a pleasure meeting you at the show. We didn't know each other before the show, but I'm honored to have earned you as a fan.
That day 1, I remember it well ... we talked down in the lobby afterward and you said to me "that midrange just wasn't happening". That struck me as strange since I just wasn't hearing what you were. But then day 2 I came into the room and it was very different sounding, V-Caps all over the place and other stuff breaking in will do that! After about the first 30 minutes of listening day 2 it was apparent how much more body and richness there was. And it really didn't hit me till you came back later that day and said how much better it was, but I thought to myself "that dude's got some good ears". Seriously my man, come over anytime and help me voice stuff out! :thumb:
thanks ryan, but i still have a ways to go as far as being a golden ear. i just felt like that's what i heard
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My biases followed me to the show, and I probably missed a few good rooms because when I stuck my head in I saw something that turned off the connection between my ears and my brain. Case in point, when I saw those little Virtue Audio Audiophile.ONE Tripath amps in the lobby I mentally commented "Oh, anther wimpy little 8 watt tripath amp". But a friend who was with me at the time was looking for something for her office system and wanted to hear them, and I reluctantly followed her up to the room where they were in use. I remember sarcastically asking her if they were available in pink. Turns out they are well designed and are built with some pretty good quality parts (amazingly good for the $249 price), they have an output stage that does about 45w/ch, and they sound very good, but they aren't available in pink.
After hearing them I registered for their raffle and I actually won an Audiophile.ONE! :bounce:
http://store.virtueaudio.com/Default.asp?Redirected=Y
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More coverage from Positive Feedback Online.... :thumb:
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue39/rmaf081.htm
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue39/rmaf084.htm
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue39/rmaf087.htm
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Hi Ryan,
Positive feedback comments: Nice stuff reasonable price.
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue39/rmaf083.htm
Regards
Rod