[mlundy57]

Well, I think I just screwed up my first filter assembly.
I strung all the parts together and began to solder. The inductors weren't solder well, then I realize there is a coating on the inductor wire.
I tried to remove the solder and start over but that's not really working. What should I try?

Once the parts are separated, use the soldering iron to get as much solder off all the leads that you can. Then use sandpaper to remove the rest of the solder and the coating from the inductor leads. After the coating is removed, tin the  cleaned leads and reattach then resolder the components together.

[wgraft5]

.

[Danny Richie]

Hey guy's,

The recorded audio clips of the LGK's are up: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PmcWtuHtcYBHGsyIWDr9WbJklmQw9FEt

These were made by allowing the LGK's to blend with our Triple Threat Servo subs using an inline filter (1st order). The microphones used were Earthworks QTC40's and were 2.5 feet away from the LGKs. We were playing back between 80 - 85db (in room) with dynamic swings in the 90s. Enjoy, and let us know what you think!

[whydontumarryit]

Since LGK 2.0 kits are currently shiping and hopefully selling well, I'll add a couple LGK 2.0 crossover photos here in case they are helpful to anyone building this design.   








The board size for this assembly is 3" x 4.75".  It is crowded and therefore requires some careful planning.

As with any crossover, there are generally multiple layouts that can work.  Hobbs' layout earlier on this thread is less crowded and likely easier to assemble (photo on page 2, layout diagram on page 4) but I'm simply showing another option.

As a general rule, my preference is always to lay down the largest inductor and stand up the smaller one.  Having the large one laying down makes it more stable, and decreases the chance of its height causing physical interference inside cabinet with a driver or binding post.

Similarly, I prefer to avoid stacking capacitors or resistors on-top of inductors.  There is no harm in doing so, but I avoid it unless it's necessary.  Just a personal preference.  For this speaker, laying down the larger inductor meant stacking components. 
Since the larger inductor is still comparatively small, I stood it up which gave room for everything else to lay flat on board. That doesn't mean one method is better than the other, it was just my choice at that moment.  Who knows, next time I build a pair I may stack components instead. 

The few finished LGK 2.0 cabinets I have seen look very nice.  I'm very much a fan of small form factor designs.  The boards in the photo above aren't mine and were shipped to a customer.  Unfortunately, I can't comment on LGK 2.0 sound signature or performance, but I do hope to have a chance to hear some in person. 

Good luck and lots of enjoyment for anyone else building this set.

Elon

elon@ezeescrossovers.com

A single sided drilled pc board is a minor expense, a convenience appreciated by the lot faithful, and an example of professionalism toward the sceptic not willing to attempt what we consider routine, expanding the potential crowd for your product. This and quick disconnects for attachments means any diyer needs only a bottle of glue to “make my own speakers”. You need not cater to only the die-hards, kids love this and need the sense of accomplishment offered by what is already close to a simple project.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

A single sided drilled pc board is a minor expense, a convenience appreciated by the lot faithful, and an example of professionalism toward the sceptic not willing to attempt what we consider routine, expanding the potential crowd for your product. This and quick disconnects for attachments means any diyer needs only a bottle of glue to “make my own speakers”. You need not cater to only the die-hards, kids love this and need the sense of accomplishment offered by what is already close to a simple project.

Skeptics will exist regardless even when you hand something to them on a silver platter.

But everything you're mentioning that makes it more "accessible" is also a compromise in quality.
Point to point is better for sound quality than a PCB, and soldering directly to the drivers is better than push-on connectors.
And both of those things will also add costs and is getting away from the DIY aspect of our market.

Sure, it'd be nice for the absolute beginners who are terrified at the idea of damaging something, but you'll still need a soldering iron to attach parts & wires to the board, unless we also offered pre-populated boards as well, which will only add more cost to thr kits. And that's also a huge upfront investment to have a bunch of boards made and also pre-assembled for plug-and-play DIY-ers, even we limited them to budget parts like some of the older AV123 boards we used to provide with the kits.

As for kids, we had a user build a pair of the Desktop Minis with his granddaughter. Soldering and all.

Our niche of the market isn't intended to be "for everyone" and thats okay.

[whydontumarryit]

Skeptics will exist regardless even when you hand something to them on a silver platter.

But everything you're mentioning that makes it more "accessible" is also a compromise in quality.
Point to point is better for sound quality than a PCB, and soldering directly to the drivers is better than push-on connectors.
And both of those things will also add costs and is getting away from the DIY aspect of our market.

Sure, it'd be nice for the absolute beginners who are terrified at the idea of damaging something, but you'll still need a soldering iron to attach parts & wires to the board, unless we also offered pre-populated boards as well, which will only add more cost to thr kits. And that's also a huge upfront investment to have a bunch of boards made and also pre-assembled for plug-and-play DIY-ers, even we limited them to budget parts like some of the older AV123 boards we used to provide with the kits.

As for kids, we had a user build a pair of the Desktop Minis with his granddaughter. Soldering and all.

Our niche of the market isn't intended to be "for everyone" and thats okay.

You make some good points, least of all my neglect of the soldering iron and glue rather than just glue. In any case,

“Point to point is better for sound quality than a PCB, and soldering directly to the drivers is better than push-on connectors.”
This quote is something that no creditable person would claim. They would not do it because each of those methods is exactly the same and could not be heard or measured as a difference.
That isn't a challenge, do it in your own spare time, don't tell us the results, just PM me.

[NoahH]

“Point to point is better for sound quality than a PCB, and soldering directly to the drivers is better than push-on connectors.”
This quote is something that no creditable person would claim. They would not do it because each of those methods is exactly the same and could not be heard or measured as a difference.
That isn't a challenge, do it in your own spare time, don't tell us the results, just PM me.

This is rude. You stated an opinion in a form that ad-hominem attacks anyone who holds a different opinion. I just watched you do something similar in the Bruston forum

There is never an acceptable reason in a meritocratic discussion for direct.or implied personal attacks.

[Danny Richie]

“Point to point is better for sound quality than a PCB, and soldering directly to the drivers is better than push-on connectors.”

This quote is something that no creditable person would claim. They would not do it because each of those methods is exactly the same and could not be heard or measured as a difference.

Actually, what he stated is absolutely correct. It is also common knowledge throughout the industry.

[Rikard Ekval]

Hey guy's,

The recorded audio clips of the LGK's are up: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PmcWtuHtcYBHGsyIWDr9WbJklmQw9FEt

These were made by allowing the LGK's to blend with our Triple Threat Servo subs using an inline filter (1st order). The microphones used were Earthworks QTC40's and were 2.5 feet away from the LGKs. We were playing back between 80 - 85db (in room) with dynamic swings in the 90s. Enjoy, and let us know what you think!

😀 Sound magnificent! So clear, and present. Top notched work. Would be nice if you/Ron/Randy also try them with some more of the shelf subs. Not everyone have your superb dual triple servo subs.

[mlundy57]

😀 Sound magnificent! So clear, and present. Top notched work. Would be nice if you/Ron/Randy also try them with some more of the shelf subs. Not everyone have your superb dual triple servo subs.

I have my LGK 1.0s paired with a 10” sealed VonSchweikert VRS/1 sub. The small 10” sub fits under my desk and works very well with the LGKs. An 8” sub would also work well in this type of set up.

My experience with the LGKs has been that when 6’ or less from the speakers I preferred the LGKs. If sitting 8’ or more from the speakers I preferred a larger speakers like the X-LS Encore.

Application is everything. The right tool for the job is just as applicable to speakers as it is to auto repairs (or anything else for that matter).

[whydontumarryit]

“Our niche of the market isn't intended to be "for everyone" and thats okay.”

The inclusion of a PCB for the xover components is a matter of esthetics and convenience just as the various versions of the LGK enclosure being available bringing it from basic to finished product.
Even if a PCB is a compromise, allowing your customers to make that decision based on their expertise offers more opportunities for increased sales. After all the primary reason for the LGK to exist is how it sounds not that it's available in kit form.
Besides, offering upgrades to existing speaker xovers and not insisting that the PCB be scrapped and the components hardwired for 'maximum performance' says more about practicality than to the miniscule improvement that may be had.

What are the audible benefits of this pcb/crimped vs hardwired/soldered assembly methods?


NoahH: The guys at GR can speak for themselves, I'm sure.

[NoahH]

NoahH: The guys at GR can speak for themselves, I'm sure.

You are posting on a public forum, not direct messages or email. If you display behavior like this in public, expect the public to call you on it.

In polite society, it is also considered kind to support people being unfairly treated. I would call someone out for being rude to others in a professional meeting, in a social event, at a McDonalds, or in a public Internet forum. Hobbs is a kind and helpful person who goes out of his way to help others. He has helped me on multiple occasions. I sure as hell will call out rudeness towards him as what it is.

If you want to have a meritocratic conversation then I suggest you acknowledge your earlier phrasing as not inviting such and apologize, and you will find many folks who are willing to discuss the topic.

[Tyson]

“Our niche of the market isn't intended to be "for everyone" and thats okay.”

The inclusion of a PCB for the xover components is a matter of esthetics and convenience just as the various versions of the LGK enclosure being available bringing it from basic to finished product.
Even if a PCB is a compromise, allowing your customers to make that decision based on their expertise offers more opportunities for increased sales. After all the primary reason for the LGK to exist is how it sounds not that it's available in kit form.
Besides, offering upgrades to existing speaker xovers and not insisting that the PCB be scrapped and the components hardwired for 'maximum performance' says more about practicality than to the miniscule improvement that may be had.

What are the audible benefits of this pcb/crimped vs hardwired/soldered assembly methods?


NoahH: The guys at GR can speak for themselves, I'm sure.

From what I understand, GR is selling so much that they can't even keep up with current demand.  So it would be silly to change what they are doing to try to capture the 'extreme novice and timid' market. 

Besides, the main driver of demand for their products is their absolute commitment to the highest quality possible at each price point.  Going with compromises like a circuit board and crimp on connectors directly undercuts their reputation for highest quality.  Which IMO is a bad move. 

[whydontumarryit]

If the LGK were available as a finished product that would suit me. I want what it offers without the bother of assembly. The reason I want it is actually interesting. Based on that asr review the claim is that 'the tonality shone through'. Tonality is something that I have not been able to get from any speaker I have had, no matter how good, so the LGK is worth a try in that regard alone. The FR is neutral, vertical dispersion is as good as horizontal and minimal phase shift if any. I listen at less than 70db normally and they will be used with a sub crossed over at 150hz.
Sounds perfect.

NoahH: Quit harassing me.

[Tyson]

If the LGK were available as a finished product that would suit me. I want what it offers without the bother of assembly. The reason I want it is actually interesting. Based on that asr review the claim is that 'the tonality shone through'. Tonality is something that I have not been able to get from any speaker I have had, no matter how good, so the LGK is worth a try in that regard alone. The FR is neutral, vertical dispersion is as good as horizontal and minimal phase shift if any. I listen at less than 70db normally and they will be used with a sub crossed over at 150hz.
Sounds perfect.

NoahH: Quit harassing me.

Then just have someone assemble it for you.  There's several people here on the forum that offer the service (for very reasonable cost, too). 

Re: that 'tone' you speak of.  Yes, the GR Research speakers (all of them) have that in spades.  It's specifically because of the care/quality that goes into every part of the design, including selecting first rate drivers, then pairing them with parts that are just as high quality and then direct wiring everything. 

I personally am a tone freak.  In my journey, I've found that tonal information is one of the very first things that get lost if great care is not taken in the design and the parts quality.  I'm not surprised you've had bad luck with other speakers and getting good tone.  It's hard, and it's not cheap.  I see a lot of good designs from other manufacturers that are ruined because they cheap out on the parts quality.  Most recently I had the Klipsch Forte III's and they were awesome except they sucked at tone.  Then I had Danny upgrade them and man those puppies really sang after that. 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

If the LGK were available as a finished product that would suit me. I want what it offers without the bother of assembly.

https://gr-research.com/product/lgk-2-0-pair/

We've actually had fully-finished LGK 2.0s available for a couple months now.

Our guys are busy assembling XLS backorders, but should be caught up before the end of July next month.

[JCarney]

So I just read this thread cuz I was bored, so glad I did. 

A quote from Hobbs in response to whydontumarryit "As for kids, we had a user build a pair of the Desktop Minis with his granddaughter. Soldering and all."

I'm that user, and here is the the link to the thread. My Granddaughter was 7 when we built the desktop mini, she just turned 8. https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177906.0

Here is another kit we are building that are self powered. https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=182250.0

Kids are like wet concrete, everything leaves an impression. She learned she likes to solder, and clamping is a hoot for her. The kit is only as complicated as you make it.

The guys at GR do things the right way. They treat customers with respect and are very helpful when you need it. What more could you ask?

JCarney

[NoahH]

If the LGK were available as a finished product that would suit me.

https://gr-research.com/completed-speakers/

[whydontumarryit]

Then just have someone assemble it for you.  There's several people here on the forum that offer the service (for very reasonable cost, too). 

Re: that 'tone' you speak of.  Yes, the GR Research speakers (all of them) have that in spades.  It's specifically because of the care/quality that goes into every part of the design, including selecting first rate drivers, then pairing them with parts that are just as high quality and then direct wiring everything. 

I personally am a tone freak.  In my journey, I've found that tonal information is one of the very first things that get lost if great care is not taken in the design and the parts quality.  I'm not surprised you've had bad luck with other speakers and getting good tone.  It's hard, and it's not cheap.  I see a lot of good designs from other manufacturers that are ruined because they cheap out on the parts quality.  Most recently I had the Klipsch Forte III's and they were awesome except they sucked at tone.  Then I had Danny upgrade them and man those puppies really sang after that.

By tonality I mean the ability to make musical instuments sound real. As it is, this seldom if ever happens and since it doesn't, no matter the perceived objectve performance of a given speaker, I wiil just resign myself to the theory that there is some magic involved.

Do instruments sound real when played through the LGK? Are there other models whch would be better suited to this sngle aspect (let's say I don't care at all about any other parameters) of tonality as I describe it?

[whydontumarryit]

https://gr-research.com/product/lgk-2-0-pair/

We've actually had fully-finished LGK 2.0s available for a couple months now.

Our guys are busy assembling XLS backorders, but should be caught up before the end of July next month.

Thanks