Bryston Manic Moose Interface

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Calypte

Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #180 on: 20 Sep 2021, 08:04 pm »
I have most of my CD collection ripped to a Passport drive.  Something like Manic Moose is -- as far as I know -- necessary to access the collection.

Timslim18

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #181 on: 20 Sep 2021, 09:27 pm »
Looks like late fall.

One question I have though is with all these new streaming services like Apple Music, Amazon HD, Qobuz, Spotify, Tidal etc. which use their own apps do you think proprietary software will be necessary?

james

Great (and timely) question.

I sense you are observing that  we are in the midst of a sea change. 

I suspect most MM fans are a generation of audiophiles who, commencing in the 1980's, enjoyed visiting CD shops as they first started their CD collections.  They thoughtfully selected CD's and went back home.  They relished the experience of opening the jewel case, carefully inserting the disc in their CD player of choice, sitting back and listening to their new acquisition as they flipped through the album booklet.  It was a visceral experience. 

Fast forward a couple of decades and we find that those same audiophiles have spent countless hours digitizing their CD collections.   They now own a digital player to play their digitized collection.  Yet they are still looking to duplicate the CD playing experience.  Enter Bryston BDP players and their proprietary software, MM.  MM seems to be all they really need and want. MM allows them to continue listening to their thoughtfully acquired music collection ensuring continued value from their original collection and subsequent digitizing efforts.  MM is not slick but it it usable in their eyes.  Mission accomplished.

But now the sea change.

As I see it, a newer generation or two does not have the same desire to collect physical media (other than a nostalgic impulse for an occasional vinyl purchase if they still have a turntable).  Newer generations are looking for spontaneous access to music.  Streaming is the answer to their needs and wants.  In general, they are more song oriented than album focused.  If they like a song, they will save its name to a playlist for future playback through their streaming platform of choice (Apple Music, Amazon HD, Qobuz, Spotify, Tidal etc.).  No hassles of hard drives or network attached storage, no backup protocols or intranet issues.  They want point and click using a fast reliable intuitive attractive user interface on a plethora of control devices.

There are very very few companies that simultaneously build great hardware and develop great software.  I think Bryston is clearly a great hardware company.  As such, to be the best in class, they need an affiliation with a skilled audio centric software company to keep the current files based BDP users content and, more importantly, to enhance internet streaming to attract new BDP users.

To you question about propriety software for Bryston, I think Bryston going it alone is not advisable.  However, a strategic partnership with an audio software company would bridge the gap between Bryston hardware and software for file management and streaming service access.

This way Bryston proprietary software (MM) fans are well served and, therefore, happy.  And the door is opened for future generations of streaming enthusiasts to buy BDP devices.

My 2 cents.


James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #182 on: 21 Sep 2021, 12:55 am »
Hi Tim

But what I was thinking is that the software available from the streaming companies will supplant the need for sophisticated software from hardware companies.

For example I use Qobuz and Apple Music now for most of my listening.  I save the albums and songs I like to playlists within the specific apps and therefor no need for stored libraries.  The only issue I can see is if your network goes down having dedicated stored music on a NAS etc. would be beneficial.

The Apple Music app is light years ahead of most hardware companies software.

best
james

NekoAudio

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #183 on: 21 Sep 2021, 01:47 am »
Many people of all ages are still building large digital collections of audio (and video). The source of the data may not have been physical media, but they still need a way to play back local files. It needs to be possible to do this via a good app or set of apps available on at least iOS and Android, preferably also Windows and Mac.

Lack of an included app that works well and is well supported would mean always having to discuss what additional software you'll need to use. For a product where the main functionality is network streaming, or where streaming is a major selling point, this can become a negative experience. Especially at higher price points. For example there are two products I'm familiar with that support network streaming but that don't include an app, and in both cases streaming is no longer a major selling feature but more of a bonus that might or might not work out for you. All the other products I can think of do include an app, and the quality of the app is always a factor.

Another consideration is that the streaming services first-party apps may not work, or may not support high-resolution audio playback. The Qobuz iOS app will send the audio data over AirPlay, which will negate any attempts to play back high-resolution audio. I think the Qobuz Android app won't send data at all except to Google Cast devices, and you have to instead use something like BubbleUPnP with Qobuz integration for anything else.

At least for now, I don't think we're close to a more interoperable ecosystem where one can rely upon the streaming services first-party apps.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #184 on: 21 Sep 2021, 11:22 am »
Good discussion - thanks folks.  :thumb:

jobiwon

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #185 on: 21 Sep 2021, 04:45 pm »
I primarily use an iPad to control MM.  Some of the MM functionality does not even work there and what does can be  flaky.  I would like to see an app that leverages the capabilities of the device.

 

Clive197

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #186 on: 22 Sep 2021, 08:12 am »
I primarily use an iPad to control MM.  Some of the MM functionality does not even work there and what does can be  flaky.  I would like to see an app that leverages the capabilities of the device.

Agree wholeheartedly  :D

 :popcorn:

Eddy124

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #187 on: 26 Sep 2021, 12:31 pm »
Hi Tim

But what I was thinking is that the software available from the streaming companies will supplant the need for sophisticated software from hardware companies.

For example I use Qobuz and Apple Music now for most of my listening.  I save the albums and songs I like to playlists within the specific apps and therefor no need for stored libraries.  The only issue I can see is if your network goes down having dedicated stored music on a NAS etc. would be beneficial.

The Apple Music app is light years ahead of most hardware companies software.

best
james

Hi James,
I don’t use MM anymore, personally I find the interface to clunky and slow when using Qobuz,  (bda-3.14). I use to be a big Apple Music app user, then tidal and now Qobuz. I can’t help but think there will be another app in the future that I may switch to. I don’t just have a bryston network device streamer so my need is for any app to stream from my iPhone , iPad. Airplay is just so convenient so I would prefer a manufacturer to focus on quality sound streaming.

jcn3

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #188 on: 27 Sep 2021, 08:29 pm »
Hi Tim

But what I was thinking is that the software available from the streaming companies will supplant the need for sophisticated software from hardware companies.

For example I use Qobuz and Apple Music now for most of my listening.  I save the albums and songs I like to playlists within the specific apps and therefor no need for stored libraries.  The only issue I can see is if your network goes down having dedicated stored music on a NAS etc. would be beneficial.

The Apple Music app is light years ahead of most hardware companies software.

best
james

james -- i agree with your thoughts here.  bryston is a hardware company and very good at it.  i would definitely leave as much of the software development and ui to others -- you'll just need to be able to work with them.

Jozsef

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #189 on: 27 Sep 2021, 09:56 pm »
When the BDP-1 was introduced, it was my understanding that streaming resulted in audible degradation of sound quality and Bryston had created a player to avoid any compromises that could possibly be designed out of the system. Of course streaming would be possible as an option if one is willing to make the tradeoff.

Since the majority always choose convenience, mp3 and the old analog audio cassette being a couple of dramatic examples, we now see streaming predominate. For various mundane reasons, it's not what I use but if Bryston now sees the BDP-3 as a streaming device, that doesn't strike me as happy news since there seems to be a consensus among the members here that locally stored files always sound better.

It's hard to imagine Bryston selling an industry leading device that would be dependent on other companies making suitable software available for it to work in more than a very basic way. I hope that doesn't come to pass. It really should be excellent out of the box and not potentially die due to a third party moving on.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #190 on: 27 Sep 2021, 10:50 pm »
Hi

Streaming is the future for music listening.

james

gbaby

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #191 on: 28 Sep 2021, 12:48 am »
Manic Moose on the BDA 3,14 must differ than the BDP3. I like Manic Moose and do not find it clunky.  However, I never stream, but rather, I import my own CDs.

Highendfool

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #192 on: 28 Sep 2021, 02:58 am »
Spot the glitch! BDA-3.14 @ 2 months old, latest firmware.


jobiwon

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #193 on: 28 Sep 2021, 05:01 pm »
Hi

Streaming is the future for music listening.

james

Yeah it is.
 
I have a friend who burned 3K CDs and pushed them up to The Amazons. They just became part of the rest of The Amazons eco system, retired his CD player.   I been working on my streaming setup for years with incremental upgrades (network,cabling, streamer,dac etc)  and although CD/files do sound better its not by much (thanks to Bryston). Same for vinyl and I got a decent TT and P-stage .   I helped a friend make modest upgrades to his streaming setup and he now confesses he rarely ever plays CDs anymore.   

When I was a kid in high school all my buddies had some type of rig, even my sister spun vinyl.  Most of those guys don't have any system now and only a couple friends even have rigs at all and they are mid fi.

My daughter is 24 and has many friends (guys and gals) and I dont know any of them who ever or now has any rendering mechanism other than a laptop or phone.   Even her BF who has a degree in performance Viola listens to music on low end portable devices.  Oh the Humanity.     I set up a modest system at my GF condo with a Sonos ZP90, external DAC and some Audio Engine speakers.  Her kid who is 21 has the Sonos app and knows how to use it.  But every time I go over there she is blue toothing music to this little crappy portable speaker.  :duh:   

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #194 on: 28 Sep 2021, 11:19 pm »
HI

I think the landscape changed when the giants (Apple Music, Amazon HD, Spotify-soon)  started offering High-Resolution (CD quality and above) on their streaming services.

I have playlist at home where I have the Qobuz version of a song and then the CD ripped version and then the downloaded version and every time I do a demo for someone it is a 50/50 split as to which is which.

When we introduced the BDP type products years ago it was the only way to get quality audio and all libraries were 'local". Steaming services offered compressed 320 at best. Now unless you have a huge library most of the streaming services allow you to make playlists and download albums or songs.

That being said the quality of the player still matters - how you handle the streaming side of things , the power supply quality, the analog section, the DAC performance etc. still matters. So products like Bryston that offer superb performance with a front end streamer I think will be the direction in the future.

One question I have is where do we think this leaves smaller players like Qobuz and Tidal, and so DSD and MQA go away as well?  Maybe even ROON but I still think a lot of people will still want a quality library and a way to manage it going forward.
« Last Edit: 29 Sep 2021, 12:03 pm by James Tanner »

GSDaudio

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #195 on: 29 Sep 2021, 11:53 am »
I agree with James take on the future of streaming.   

I just get worried about music being only available by subscription and various internet providers.    How do you get streaming music for your car when you are travelling far north?  Does this mean no music for the remote cottage?   I guess the younger group will be asking for a copy of grandpas old hard drive in these situations.

Cheers 

GrooveControl

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #196 on: 29 Sep 2021, 01:05 pm »
I use Spotify and they allow you to download whatever you want to your local device so you can enjoy it offline.  You cannot copy it to another device, and you can only access that music with the Spotify app,  but its still a good feature. 

jobiwon

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #197 on: 29 Sep 2021, 01:42 pm »
I use Spotify and they allow you to download whatever you want to your local device so you can enjoy it offline.  You cannot copy it to another device, and you can only access that music with the Spotify app,  but its still a good feature.

What sample rate is the download? 16/48?

GrooveControl

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #198 on: 29 Sep 2021, 06:11 pm »
What sample rate is the download? 16/48?

Sorry, I don't know how/where to check that. 

gbaby

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Re: Bryston Manic Moose Interface
« Reply #199 on: 29 Sep 2021, 07:23 pm »
Spot the glitch! BDA-3.14 @ 2 months old, latest firmware.


What or where is the glitch?