Gustard X20?

quadman · « **Reply #120 on:** 19 Mar 2016, 03:32 pm »

Quote from: aldcoll on 19 Mar 2016, 03:40 am

Now a SERIOUS question: What dac did the Gustard X20 replace in your setup?

Or what I really would like to know and hear is how does the X20 compare to some of the current HOT models in the same price range of about $700-$2000?

I.E. Yaggi Benchmark, used like a older Lampi or new. A couple tubes or none at all.

Quadman: I will try a few of the simple DIY you mentioned even though I don't own the unit and I was only tasked with BURNING it in and being the receiving agent of the shipment. Any thoughts of removing the volume circuit (if that wouldn't cause a major cost or issue)
I tend to prefer using the Pre Amp so as not to degrade the digital signal since a majority of my listening is with the wife at home and that requires @-40 db to keep the hackles down.

Also anybody used any of the inputs beside the USB, OPTIC or COAX? What has you experience been.
In the next week I will try all of the inputs that I can with current equipment.

The X20u replaced NAD M51 which I thought was sounding great in my system. The X20U clearly is better, especially with the first level of mods (bypass fuse/audiophile fuse, twist AC lines and remove tranny bolt hardware). I have only used USB and Coax input and enjoyed them both.

As to the volume control that is well above my level, my understanding is it is handled in the dac chip and really should be pretty transparent down to at least -18 to -20 db. Other way more knowledgeable people can chime in here.

Marty (nc42acc) did a mini review of the X20U and 3 other dacs here http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?20090-DACs-Galore-and-Expectation-Bias
looks like he preferred it the most.

PeteG · « **Reply #121 on:** 25 Mar 2016, 07:48 pm »

I started reading about this dac over at head-fi awhile back, I just today looked at the price on Amazon and had a impulse buy moment. Hope it sounds as good as I have read.

aldcoll · « **Reply #122 on:** 25 Mar 2016, 07:51 pm »

I will take you pictures from Black and white to color panorama

Sorry that was toooo easy. It is a great piece and let us know your impressions.

Alan

PeteG · « **Reply #123 on:** 25 Mar 2016, 08:03 pm »

Alan, I hope your right. It will be along wait, don't know how long it will take to get here and then along burn-in.

aldcoll · « **Reply #124 on:** 25 Mar 2016, 08:19 pm »

About 200 hours on the burn in. Just plug it in to a source and turn it on for a seek. Let me know if you want a manual as they don't come with the units. Or at lest that is the common rule.

Alan

mresseguie · « **Reply #125 on:** 25 Mar 2016, 09:15 pm »

Hi, PeteG.

I'll bet it arrives in under two weeks. At least, that seems to be what most folks experienced.

Talk about long waits. When I ordered mine, I thought I'd be back in Oregon by March 15th, but no. "We" decided to stay in Taiwan until April 11th. I'm very eager to hear my X20! I imagine Alan hasn't minded the extra time too much.

I didn't view all of them, but those are beautiful photographs on your website.

Michael

PeteG · « **Reply #126 on:** 25 Mar 2016, 09:20 pm »

Quote from: aldcoll on 25 Mar 2016, 08:19 pm

Let me know if you want a manual as they don't come with the units. Or at lest that is the common rule.

Alan

Thanks Alan, email sent.

Quote from: mresseguie on 25 Mar 2016, 09:15 pm

I didn't view all of them, but those are beautiful photographs on your website.

Michael

Michael, Thank you.

PeteG · « **Reply #127 on:** 27 Mar 2016, 01:47 pm »

At some point I would like to use the Is2 input on the X20, I'm using a mac mini would the Gustard U12 work for this or just a waste of time and money.

mresseguie · « **Reply #128 on:** 27 Mar 2016, 02:52 pm »

Pete,

Did you purchase the X20 or the X20u?

The X20u includes the i2S interface. When I was preparing to place an order, I noticed there were a few X20 units (sans the i2S interface) available for less money. I've forgotten the prices.

The interface is not a DAC. Unless I'm mistaken the Gustard U12 is the interface in an external case. If you ordered the X20u, you have no need of the U12.

I found this all very confusing in the beginning, too. There's an X12, an X20, a U12, and an i2S interface card all presented without a whole lot of explanation. What a PITA! I got over my confusion through repeated exposure to all the different sites.

IHIH you.

Michael

PeteG · « **Reply #129 on:** 27 Mar 2016, 03:23 pm »

I ordered X20u, was thinking how I could use the i2S input for DSD256/DSD512.

mresseguie · « **Reply #130 on:** 27 Mar 2016, 04:15 pm »

I don't have a definite answer to this question. IIRC you must have software (Audirvana, Jplayer, HQ Player, or ??) installed. Nc42acc, ACHiPo, or quadman are more knowledgeable, so I suggest asking one of them directly.

I own a Mac Mini, but I don't have any of the above mentioned players. My buying the DAC came about faster than I had anticipated - a moment of weakness it was.

Ern Dog · « **Reply #131 on:** 27 Mar 2016, 04:19 pm »

Quote from: mresseguie on 27 Mar 2016, 04:15 pm

I don't have a definite answer to this question. IIRC you must have software (Audirvana, Jplayer, HQ Player, or ??) installed. Nc42acc, ACHiPo, or quadman are more knowledgeable, so I suggest asking one of them directly.

I own a Mac Mini, but I don't have any of the above mentioned players. My buying the DAC came about faster than I had anticipated - a moment of weakness it was.

Or perhaps a moment of clarity and wisdom

ACHiPo · « **Reply #132 on:** 27 Mar 2016, 05:41 pm »

Quote from: Ern Dog on 27 Mar 2016, 04:19 pm

Or perhaps a moment of clarity and wisdom

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! I continue to be delighted with the Gustard. Just ordered some PCs from Pete--I'm skeptical, but thought I'd give PCs another try now that the resolution of my system is kicked up a few notches with the Darwin Truth ICs and Gustard DAC.

quadman · « **Reply #133 on:** 30 Mar 2016, 06:16 pm »

Quote from: PeteG on 27 Mar 2016, 03:23 pm

I ordered X20u, was thinking how I could use the i2S input for DSD256/DSD512.

It is my understanding you can do that with the u12 and X20u if you have the source material at that resolution or an up sampling program such as HQplayer, Jriver, audirvana etc. I have also read where the u12 is a bottleneck/weak point in the chain, but will allow you to stream higher resolution than USB. If you can find a newer driver for the USB; I have seen one forum member on head-fi stream dsd 256 via usb. I cannot or have not found one to do so yet. I up sample everything to DSD128 and it sounds wonderful. The Tanly also can do what the u12 does and do a better job, but Gustard has reversed the wiring of L and R channels on the I2S ports of all their products. So with the Tanly the channels would be reversed, unless you can get them to re-wire the unit to Gustard standard before buying. Here's a bit of a thread on that subject from head-fi

It comes from the different pin assignment of Tanly output and DAC-X20 input for DSD.
Usually, DATA (I2S) is shared with DSD R (DSD), which Tanly follows.
However, DATA (I2S) is shared with DSD L (DSD) in DAC-X20. See the pin assignment of U12 output as well as DAC-X20 input. The combination of U12 and DAC-X20 works correctly both for PCM and DSD.

Since Gustard has changed the pin assignment of U12 output without notice, I believe they made a mistake saying DATA/DSD R and LRCK/DSD L at the beginning.
Actually, there was no hardware change in U12.
Some customers pointed out the channel swap in DSD. Instead of recalling all the U12 units already in the market, they changed the specifications of HDMI LVDS I2S/DSD interface which DAC-X20 and DAC-X12 follow.
DAC-X12 was already in the market as they reaslised the U12 pin assignment was wrong, and the new DAC-X20 had to follow this "new" specifications to keep compatibility with U12.
That is why HDMI LVDS I2S/DSD interface of Gustard is unique and not compatible with any other manufacturer's product.

You should have ordered your Tanly by indicating DAC-X20 HDMI LVDS I2S/DSD input or U12 output (the current one, not the previous one).

I posted the following on Gustard U12 thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/3105#post_12206039

PeteG · « **Reply #134 on:** 30 Mar 2016, 06:38 pm »

I'll try the U12, might even modd it a little. My X20 & U12 have shipped but it will take a while to get here.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #135 on:** 2 Apr 2016, 07:02 am »

Ok, so minor surgery complete and the patient is stable. Stock fuse replaced, power supply wires twisted (you don't need to removed the sleeve), and transformers set free from their mounting bolt and isolated with rubber coasters. Will give it a listen tomorrow morning.

mresseguie · « **Reply #136 on:** 2 Apr 2016, 08:07 am »

Quote from: ACHiPo on 2 Apr 2016, 07:02 am

Ok, so minor surgery complete and the patient is stable. Stock fuse replaced, power supply wires twisted (you don't need to removed the sleeve), and transformers set free from their mounting bolt and isolated with rubber coasters. Will give it a listen tomorrow morning.

Kewl.

I'm very interested to learn what this does. Did you brace the transformers, or are they 'loose'?

ACHiPo · « **Reply #137 on:** 2 Apr 2016, 03:33 pm »

Quote from: mresseguie on 2 Apr 2016, 08:07 am

Kewl. I'm very interested to learn what this does. Did you brace the transformers, or are they 'loose'?

While I was skeptical, there does seem to be improved smoothness and musicality after the mods. Detail doesn't seem changed much. Bass seems a tad fuller and tighter as well, although the soundstage seems to have shrunk laterally a tad. All in all the tweaks seem to be an improvement. I may pick up some nylon bolts for the transformers (they are loosely sitting on a couple rubber coasters I had lying around that were just the right size).

mresseguie · « **Reply #138 on:** 2 Apr 2016, 04:20 pm »

Are the improvements enough to make you recommend others try them, or is this something that one could choose to not do and just be happy with stock?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm now 'speakerless'. In preparation for our return to the States, I dropped my LS/5-R speakers and their stands off at a good friend's home yesterday. They will enjoy the (huge) improvement in SQ over their Bose HT setup plus they will care for my speakers while I am gone. I didn't relish leaving my speakers exposed to the heat and humidity of summer. They run the AC all summer long.

Oh, wait. I've got my wife's Jambox. Ooooh, sweet....

ACHiPo · « **Reply #139 on:** 2 Apr 2016, 09:06 pm »

Quote from: mresseguie on 2 Apr 2016, 04:20 pm

Are the improvements enough to make you recommend others try them, or is this something that one could choose to not do and just be happy with stock?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm now 'speakerless'. In preparation for our return to the States, I dropped my LS/5-R speakers and their stands off at a good friend's home yesterday. They will enjoy the (huge) improvement in SQ over their Bose HT setup plus they will care for my speakers while I am gone. I didn't relish leaving my speakers exposed to the heat and humidity of summer. They run the AC all summer long.

Oh, wait. I've got my wife's Jambox. Ooooh, sweet....

Given that it took less than 20 minutes to do the tweaks, there's improvement, and they're reversible I think it's worthwhile. Ric claims the Schurter fuse I used is only 25% of what copper foil yields, but I'm not going to short out the fuse.

That being said, the tweaks are not "mindblowing"--you can definitely live without them.