AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Well Tempered Lab => Topic started by: newvinyl on 28 Mar 2015, 12:16 am

Title: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: newvinyl on 28 Mar 2015, 12:16 am: Anyone have any info on this...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117758)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 28 Mar 2015, 05:55 am: Firebaugh's latest. and has that lovely stand..and long long arm..
Looks tits!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 28 Mar 2015, 11:08 am: It doesn't look great does it? But what does it sound like?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 28 Mar 2015, 11:13 am: look here:

http://www.perfectaudio.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/PA-listinoWTL2015.pdf

:smoke:
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: SteveFord on 28 Mar 2015, 02:07 pm: That's quite a departure from his previous products, isn't it?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: newvinyl on 28 Mar 2015, 05:44 pm: Looks like the headshell offset is 0 degrees, straight in line with the tone arm, no offset at all.
Could that be the case?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: watercourse on 28 Mar 2015, 06:28 pm: Wow, a mass-loaded CLD plinth, tube phono stage, and cartridges too? WTF WTL?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 29 Mar 2015, 12:23 pm: (http://www.adig.altervista.org/bill.jpg)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: TimF on 30 Mar 2015, 02:51 pm: Good lord, one could use that arm as a back-scratcher! Nice looking table overall though.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 30 Mar 2015, 03:00 pm: Nice to see Bill still sporting his white belt and polyesters...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: watercourse on 30 Mar 2015, 03:18 pm: Next time, the demo should be someplace other than a funeral home, or at least hide the casket better.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 31 Mar 2015, 01:33 am: Lol... Good point... not sure what all that's about..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: Erocka2000 on 31 Mar 2015, 12:55 pm: I really hope he used a better motor than the one used in the Amadeus. And I really wish he switched back to a rubber belt. As good as the thread sounds, durability is not as good as with a rubber belt. And I'd trade that little bit of extra sound for a belt that I don't have to replace every few months or so. If those changes happened, I would really consider going back to this Well Tempered.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: sebrof on 1 Apr 2015, 12:09 am: Quote from: Erocka2000 on 31 Mar 2015, 12:55 pm
I really hope he used a better motor than the one used in the Amadeus. And I really wish he switched back to a rubber belt. As good as the thread sounds, durability is not as good as with a rubber belt. And I'd trade that little bit of extra sound for a belt that I don't have to replace every few months or so. If those changes happened, I would really consider going back to this Well Tempered.
I wasn't aware there is an issue with the motor on the Amadeus. Have they been failing or something?

I know you went through heck and back with the thread/belt on your Amadeus (that was you, right?), but I'm glad they use thread. I have had my table since November and I am on my 2nd belt. The 1st belt I broke and was my fault. I paid $3 for a 400 yard spool of thread that will literally last me a lifetime. I'll never need to wait for a belt I ordered to arrive, never need to worry about them becoming obsolete. I made the jig that is described in the manual so I'm ready to go.
I'd take an arm cue, though :D
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 01:08 am: Well, quibble away... and sometimes rightly so... Yet as Uncle Felix would say- she can't sew, she can't cook, but oh what a woman... ( Barbra Stanwyck movie)
That's still how I feel about the Amadeus.. one heck of a great sounding table.

Now of course you'll be quibbling over the Royale price..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: mick wolfe on 1 Apr 2015, 03:47 am: Quote from: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 01:08 am
Well, quibble away... and sometimes rightly so... Yet as Uncle Felix would say- she can't sew, she can't cook, but oh what a woman... ( Barbra Stanwyck movie)
That's still how I feel about the Amadeus.. one heck of a great sounding table.

Now of course you'll be quibbling over the Royale price..

Agreed....As good as the Amadeus sounds, I'll put up with a few nits. Belts are a non issue. I have several in reserve and my last one has lasted nearly a year.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 04:49 am: The belt breakage thing is still a mystery to me.. mine rarely break, I can't even remember the last time. I play all the time, I know at least once a month I go to bed with it still spinning, like a big dummy. Yet I have two friends who must use those things to floss with- breaking belts right and left. It just makes no sense..

So nobody knows the Royale price? I've got a guesstimate...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 1 Apr 2015, 09:41 am: USE THE SAME GAUGE NYLON FISHING AND NOT BREAK EVER!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119558.msg1321055#msg1321055 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119558.msg1321055#msg1321055)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: sebrof on 1 Apr 2015, 11:13 am: Quote from: ADiG on 1 Apr 2015, 09:41 am
USE THE SAME GAUGE NYLON FISHING AND NOT BREAK EVER!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119558.msg1321055#msg1321055 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119558.msg1321055#msg1321055)

Also, on page 3 of that thread is a picture Mike Pranka sent to me of the thread he recommends.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: Erocka2000 on 1 Apr 2015, 01:03 pm: Quote from: mick wolfe on 1 Apr 2015, 03:47 am
Agreed....As good as the Amadeus sounds, I'll put up with a few nits. Belts are a non issue. I have several in reserve and my last one has lasted nearly a year.

I don't want to derail this thread and I don't deny that your belt may have lasted a year. But there is no way at all that it kept the proper tension for that entire year. The belts stretch out fairly easy, especially if you change speeds a lot, which I why I would prefer a rubber belt.

Does anyone know if the Royale will have push-button speed changes? And does anyone know what the price may be?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 02:46 pm: Oh I agree... I've always hoped Opera would go to a rubber belt or something that would last the typical 5 yrs of a rubber one. And logically one would assume an older ( one year!) belt would be stretched... yet the strobe disc says otherwise...

My guesstimate is somewhere between $10k to $12k ?..haven't heard peep, that's my gut feeling..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: Erocka2000 on 1 Apr 2015, 03:03 pm: Quote from: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 02:46 pm
My guesstimate is somewhere between $10k to $12k ?..haven't heard peep, that's my gut feeling..

Yikes! I was hoping for more like $6,500 or so.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 03:28 pm: I'm thinking for sure at least a solid $10k...we're going up in musicality and construction, looks like, and that costs.. shudder to think if it wasn't being made by Opera.. $18 or $20k?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: Erocka2000 on 1 Apr 2015, 04:53 pm: I understand it's more robust than the Amadeus and Versalex, but do you really think there's $8,000 more in construction costs? It has about 4 pieces of baltic birch plywood and the top and bottom pieces. Platter and motor seem to be the same and other than a longer arm tube, the rest of the arm looks the same as the Versalex. I'm just not seeing $8,000 more. And I'm totally fine with companies that increase costs based on R&D and sales numbers, but come on. I think $12,000 is way too much for at least what I'm seeing. And yes, I know, it's what you hear that counts.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 1 Apr 2015, 08:21 pm: Is it determined then $12k USD?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 08:37 pm: I have no idea... I'm thinking at least $10k... just a hunch, nothing factual.
And, if it's as good as the rumor mill states, that's all I need to hear.
Any other table I'd ditch my Amadeus for is well over $20k..

I do doubt it's the same motor.. generally the long arm transcription types need a lot of torque.. It might be a lot of fun to cue that long arm..( there's a joke in there somewhere)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 1 Apr 2015, 08:48 pm: Quote from: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 08:37 pm

It might be a lot of fun to cue that long arm..( there's a joke in there somewhere)

Trust you :D

I'll phone Sir John about price etc tomorrow.....
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 1 Apr 2015, 10:04 pm: What a saint he is...it's been very hush hush over here..
That photo of Bill F was from the BIG trade show in China.. Maybe that was Mao laid out under the cloth behind him.. See? The Royal brought Mao back around (or did he ever go away?) , just think what it will do for our old records!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: Erocka2000 on 6 Apr 2015, 07:08 pm: So, has anyone confirmed price yet?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 6 Apr 2015, 09:12 pm: UK distributer unavailable until after Easter break but I will find out shortly if no one else does first
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 6 Apr 2015, 10:54 pm: It's not finalized yet- could change- yet $10k is the target.
Save up!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 6 Apr 2015, 10:56 pm: Rob, are you getting one?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 7 Apr 2015, 05:06 am: I did say to you that I had lost the upgrading bug Charlie and I would need to hear it first, but a better sounding Well Tempered will be too much of a temptation I feel. How about you?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: Erocka2000 on 7 Apr 2015, 01:09 pm: Quote from: threadkiller on 6 Apr 2015, 10:54 pm
It's not finalized yet- could change- yet $10k is the target.
Save up!

Is this price just what you're guessing or is it based on something you've heard? It'd be a shame to sell it for that much, as far as I'm concerned. $6,500 - 7,000 seems to be what I'd price it at.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 7 Apr 2015, 06:34 pm: Well, easy for you or one to say, I guess. Unfortunately we don't get to set the price...otherwise I could get my next car for half!

Rob... You know it! Let's just wait and see how it plays out-bad pun intended..
I'm hoping it's the bees knees..and if it is, I gots to have it. If it's only marginally better then probably not..
If it's a big difference, then it's trying to find the space for it.. or what I'll put it on.. Or that matching stand..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 7 Apr 2015, 07:28 pm: Yes Chaz the dimensions screw up my rack situation also. I'd be looking to make a matching Oak one just for the Royale. It's a friendly race now to see whether it's you, me or another forum member that gets to hear one first. Mike Pranka and John Burns will control that one I would suggest. I really look forward to it though.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 7 Apr 2015, 07:39 pm: Good point...
My questions are- does one have to use the matching stand or is that just to facilitate easy placement? Sounds better with? Leveling capability? Hopefully still no clamp..although that's onky a mild irritation.
You may have to fly in and help me lift the thing..

Yet I admit I'm excited...I've been on a real record buying binge lately.. And with my new cleaner it's been a whole new world..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: mgsboedmisodpc2 on 7 Apr 2015, 11:24 pm: threadkiller tell us about your "new cleaner "
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 8 Apr 2015, 12:07 am: Ok, but I think I babbled on here before - so I'll make it brief.
I finally wanted something good- was tired of my VPI 16 and others like it, oki noki etc.
was going to get a Keith Monks, after hearing how much better it did than the VPI.
Then the AudioDesk started making the rounds and getting the buzz, reviewed or mentioned 3 times in Stereophile due to strong ad money- ( it obviously makes a difference, sadly) and then was told by several "authorities" to me that it was built cheaply like a plastic toy, and was told to get the KLAudio ultrasonic, which I did. And I love it, my friends love it, and it's a phenomenal product, albeit it an expensive one.

In a nutshell, it cleans like nothing I've heard. It is beyond simple. And quick.
I use 3 min wash and 2 min dry cycle. Both sides at a time. No applying fluids. No flipping.
Just insert and go. Love love love... About the size of a toaster. $4k.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: mgsboedmisodpc2 on 8 Apr 2015, 03:51 am: threadkiller just remember to store cleaned LP in a clean LP sleeve Which I learned the hard way as a must do preventing re depositing of dust :)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 8 Apr 2015, 04:02 am: Thanks! I'll remember. I have several packs of new sleeves on the shelf under the cleaner.
I always replace unless it's one of these fancy new reissue labels, such as Music Matters. Even then sometimes a brand new sleeve after cleaning is preferable...

The odd thing to me with most records cleaned on the KLAudio machine is that the volume seems to increase without touching the volume...

Happy listening...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 21 Apr 2015, 12:51 pm: The latest info I have on the 400 Royale is that the first batch is expecting in the UK in a few months time with price expected to be in the region of Charlie's estimation and reports are that it sounds fantastic! Just when I thought no more upgrades for a couple of years and this happens :D
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 21 Apr 2015, 08:00 pm: Good reporting, Rob!
If Saint Burns approves then it must be good.
Right now I'm trying to picture in my head where I'd put it, or it with the stand.
Plus, my newest find, Rob, is to take the balls out completely- the table, silly- and put the Amadeus on an HRS MX3 shelf. It's amazing! I had the table sitting on the shelf as standard, then Mr P said he and the HRS man did it without the balls and it couples wonderfully. The balls were muting it a bit- in the way.
I also tried this on the top shelf of a Quadraspire SVT rack and it worked splendidly. If your room or support can do it give it a try.

Well, sounds like some of us need to start saving...a new adventure awaits..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 21 Apr 2015, 08:22 pm: Interesting post Charlie. If you remember I tried and liked the feet without balls on a sub shelf previously. The squash balls definitely deaden the sound but it's a fine line between dull and the sound being a little forced. Going to give it another go and will report back. As you wrote where to put the 400 is a headache. But we are already at the who will get one first me thinks? :D
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 22 Apr 2015, 03:06 am: Lol... oh dear. Well, as you know, one could buy quite a few records instead of the table upgrade.
Yet I've been on a real binge here lately.
If one likes Ellington that reissue of Masterpieces that Fremer raved over is fantastic. Also the newish 45 from Reference Recordings of Mephisto & Co. is a knockout with Eiji Oue. Fun stuff. Makes me want to get the new reissue from Analogue Sounds of Kabelesky's The Comedians. I bought the Classic Records one years ago, the new one Fremer is agog about. And the recent Music Matters Blue Notes are superb.

About those balls/shelves...on another rack here it just didn't fly. Feedback- which was kind of cool for the first minute.. footfall issues. As Chico said No Good! And a slight whatever.. the HRS shelf I'm using is more than an Amadeus..but holy cow!

One last thing to consider with this new table... We're jumping up in price quite a bit. There may be alternatives to consider? Nah... I already crossed off everything in that price range with the Amadeus. So for me the Royale needs to give substantially more... Rob, keep me posted!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 22 Apr 2015, 04:49 am: I don't think Firebaugh will let us down Charlie. No point trying to talk yourself out of buying one, you know you will be like a kid before xmas when it's available :). I won't be surprised if it's nearer the fall before we can buy one though!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: Plink on 26 Apr 2015, 05:35 pm: A rubber belt would completely ruin why I got(get) speed consistency on the level of a Technics SP10. Horrible idea.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 18 May 2015, 08:42 am: MONACO HI END SHOW

(http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2015a/m2/IMG_1824ss.jpg) (https://www.facebook.com/WellTemperedLab)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 18 May 2015, 09:06 am: Looks like a more silver coloured top and bottom plate than the grey one first seen in pics. Very nice actually. It was at the Munich show (Germany). Our UK WTL distributer was there for his first listen. Less than ideal enviroment but I will be getting a report back shortly on his impression. Hope to listen to one myself @ July.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: sebrof on 18 May 2015, 02:38 pm: Nice looking table.
I don't know about you guys, but with that long arm I might actually need a cue lever :green:
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 18 May 2015, 03:10 pm: Well, doesn't the photo show both finger lift and cueing lever?
Since it's the newer Symmetrex arm?
It does look nice - and no stupid mirror.
I doubt length will impede cueing- will probably enhance it.
If you ever tried cueing a Simplex short arm after using an Amadeus you'd want to rip it out of the plinth...well, that was the effect it had on crazy me.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: newvinyl on 18 May 2015, 11:43 pm: Looking that this latest pic on page 3, that is a long tone arm.

On page 1 of this tread I asked about the headshell offset angle. This latest pic looks like there is some angle (not zero degrees), so that's good.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: SteveFord on 18 May 2015, 11:57 pm: How does a 100 pound turntable tie in with the concept of the Simplex?
That's going from one end of the spectrum to the other from the same designer.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 19 May 2015, 12:56 am: The overall design theory of arm and bearing are the same...the Simplex was a stripped down version of the Amadeus, the Royale, an enlargement. For the arm to be longer,the motor is bigger ( I think) and the tube reinforced... The Royale is his final statement on his years of theorizing... As an original Classics owner I'm ready for it.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 25 May 2015, 05:46 am: NEWS:

https://welltemperedlab.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/well-tempered-royale-400-turntable/ (https://welltemperedlab.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/well-tempered-royale-400-turntable/)

:)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: watercourse on 25 May 2015, 02:37 pm: Wow, that plinth surface has so much real estate! You can put your beer and corn dog down next to the pulley for a snack while mounting carts! :wink:
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 25 May 2015, 04:33 pm: I think we'll all be shocked when we see it in person.... one could probably run a mini gauge train set on it..
I'll have a corn dog! And since that isn't on Rob's 10% diet I'll have his as well. Anything for a friend....

When you think about it the size of it isn't that much of a bother since there's the stand. It won't be for everybody, naturally. No quibbling about fitting it on a homemade wall shelf, that sort of thing. The Shindo Garrard is a great table, and it's huge! Like a big piece of luggage sitting up there. And the new Kuzma arm looks the size of one of my old well pumps.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 26 May 2015, 07:37 am: You have a (turntable) size fixation chaz :-)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 26 May 2015, 03:14 pm: Guilty as charged.... It IS the centerpiece of any system, mind you...those that focus on amps, on those things in the room called speakers, a pair of them, no less, are deluding themselves- off in the weeds, so to speak.
The embodiment of a system, the heart and soul of it, is the turntable. And we're fooling ourselves with that son of satan digital box, that dark calling that promises yet never delivers... Our systems would be nothing without a good turntable. Why bother otherwise?
So yes, Rob, go big or go home!
What is that arm again? 17"? bigger than a ruler...in these parts that's a keeper...:)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: mannikman on 26 May 2015, 06:51 pm: Darn thing looks ugly to me, and I am not convinced it will offer the leap in sound performance that will justify the price difference between this and the standard decks. I would rather spend the cash on the black disc. Should get a few discs for that price. Also I have a general question for those tempted. Is the size of the turntable inversely proportional to the size of ones weaner. If so I might go back to CD……..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 26 May 2015, 08:33 pm: If you're going back to cd solely, might as well lop it off and be done with it...

Beauty is relative, so we'll see. You might be right.

Size, however, is key, at least with the arm and so is geometry. There are only two spots on a table that the arm can be exactly perpendicular, which one wishes would be across the entire record. The longer the arm, the less error across the record. Hopefully someone more technical like Watercourse or Roscoe could explain it more precisely.
In theory, and knowing Firebaugh, it should be great, and hopefully leaps forward than the others..
Don't chop anything off just yet...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: mannikman on 27 May 2015, 05:29 pm: As much as I love my Lector CD player, vinyl is still the one, so I needn't lop anything off for now. I just think the reality check is often needed. I heard 10K GBP for this brute. Compared to the Versalex it would need to offer some outstanding improvement on what is already a great deck. Imagine all the vinyl you could buy with that. I would love to come over to your side of the pond and see you A/B these decks, but for me it just looks like a versalex on steroids, and I cannot for the life of me see how it will be leagues ahead of what we have all come accustomed too with the WTL sound.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 27 May 2015, 06:14 pm: Well you don't have to go to the US to hear the Versalex v Royale 400 demo mannikman. If you can find the time to come over to Audio Council near Manchester when they get a 400 from John Burns then meet me there for the dem. Not sure that it will retail as high as 10k more like 7k I've heard. I won't be parting with my money either unless it is significantly better. My guess, based on WTL's history when it comes to new decks, is that it will be!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 27 May 2015, 06:51 pm: Cheers to that, mates!
I dunno- I find I've been buying lots of vinyl lately already... I think I've got that dreaded- I've got to have this- disease...
Indeed, there's a lot riding on the Royale's sound. I've already absorbed the look, size, positioning thing.
Now it's onto the main event- the listening!

Manchester? Does anyone go there these days? I guess I'm still thinking of the dark age when Morissey poofed out onto the scene..I did have a small mohawk once, back in 1980... I was all about the Clash...
Ok, too much coffee, too much info...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 5 Jun 2015, 09:40 am: http://www.blackpearls-shop.de/WELL-TEMPERED-REFERENCE-TURNTABLE-ROYALE-400
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 5 Jun 2015, 03:27 pm: So the retail price is 9100 GBP. Not an insignificant amount of money! Almost thee times the price of the latest Versalex/Amadeus. It will have to be good!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 5 Jun 2015, 07:26 pm: Bah! Time will tell, my friends... There may be the cache of having the flagship model...although I do know some lines in which that is all a lot of ballyhoo..
Of course there's the notion that you'd have the longest arm in the room...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ponies58 on 6 Jun 2015, 03:58 pm: Hey, I have seen sebrof wheel his mighty fingers all night long with his WT TT. He don't need no stinkin' cue!!!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 7 Jun 2015, 06:49 am: deutschland preisliste:

http://audikron.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/WTL_Preisliste_2015VK.pdf
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 7 Jun 2015, 09:29 am: I was hoping the turntable plus the new custom rack for it would come in around 9k GBP but the rack is another 6.5k GBP which is around $10k US. That puts the combo at over 15.5k GBP or $24k USD. The WTL flagship model will no longer fly the flag for great sound at a low price although I have a feeling that it will probably set a new standard for vinyl replay.. Look I'm just having a moan because I can't afford it :(
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 7 Jun 2015, 04:14 pm: What? Ready to throw in the towel before the game begins?
Let's just see what happens...or more especially, hear what happens.
Could be a game changer...yee of so little faith.. :)

Another way I see it is this---
Even if most of us can't afford it, it's Firebaugh's statement, the culmination of all his theories. Whether it's his ultimate dream machine or a mix due to constraints or involvement of others is not known. But, Everyone else comes out with statement products, Naim, Clearaudio, Linn, etc. Like the Amadeus, he's worked on this a long time. Look at the Internet, there's tons of statement products. Kuzma's new huge arm, the new SPEC table coming out of Japan for $20k something that looks to be filling the bill for the out of production Shindo table.
Lots of pricey goodness out there.
So I'm somewhat quietly waiting...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 7 Jun 2015, 05:40 pm: Quote from: threadkiller on 7 Jun 2015, 04:14 pm
What? Ready to throw in the towel before the game begins?
Let's just see what happens...or more especially, hear what happens.
Could be a game changer...yee of so little faith.. :)
/quote]

No I have the faith Chaz but not the loot :-)

I only hope now that yourself (or another member of this forum) raise the funds and report back on the actual improvement over the excellent Amadeus/Versalex......
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 7 Jun 2015, 09:29 pm: Who can say...
You know of course, industry numbers say that 98% of table sales are under a grand.
So even we buying the Amadeus/Verselex are a tiny minority...assume yourself very well heeled using those statistics...maybe we should just bugger off and only buy more records...:)
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 8 Jun 2015, 10:37 am: Quote from: threadkiller on 7 Jun 2015, 09:29 pm
..maybe we should just bugger off and only buy more records...:)

Not the worst suggestion ever Chaz!
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: mgsboedmisodpc2 on 11 Jun 2015, 11:18 am: A few grand more in records or gear depends I guess on the size of your current collection.
A small collection wants to grow.
A larger collection wants better gear to play it on.
Me I am actually liking a new piece of analog gear not related to the WTC that being a Clearaudio TT-4 Linear Tracking Tonearm.
Discussion of that product is for another audience. :wink:
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 25 Sep 2015, 04:51 am: I've been invited to a 400 Royale demo with the UK WT supplier and my dealer at the shop next week. I will report back.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: ADiG on 25 Sep 2015, 05:49 am: Wow, you have been chosen!
Lucky friend! :notworthy:
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 25 Sep 2015, 06:11 pm: :D
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 25 Sep 2015, 07:28 pm: Watch out for that 16 incher... It's a doozy...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rayh23a on 6 Oct 2015, 02:34 am: (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=129146)
It sounds so good :thumb:
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 7 Oct 2015, 03:27 pm: So Rob? Any news?
The boat or freight truck is awfully poky over here... all I keep getting is soon...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 7 Oct 2015, 03:54 pm: I'm so busy with the renovation Chaz I didn't manage to get to the dealers. John Burns was coming down with deck himself on a week day as he wasn't looking to leave the 400 with my dealer. I plan a listen in a couple of weeks when the house is done. At least we have one in the UK. There will no doubt only be a small market for a turntable at that price.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 8 Oct 2015, 01:37 am: Send me photos when you're done. I bet it'll look great.
It is a busy time right now. But never too busy for a little music.
Bax- November Woods et al...make time for your fall tunes...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 8 Oct 2015, 04:47 pm: No, never too busy to listen to music and the end of the day Chaz. My A23 speaker cables are too short for the new place. I saw a second hand 6m pair of Chord Signature at a good price so bought them. I've been surprised how good they sound. Like a more detailed and refined Mogami. Not as natural as A23 but timing is spot on and is full and dynamic without sounding strident. Very involving listen with Classical, Jazz and Rock. Still using A23 IC's of course.
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 9 Oct 2015, 04:51 pm: Yep, that's about right. Overpriced, though. But I'm starting to say that about most things these days.
Let us know when you hear the Royale.. still no word on this end. Sigh
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 9 Oct 2015, 06:18 pm: Royale listen in just over 2 weeks. Only paid $750 USD for the Chords. I will get my money back when I sell them. Looking for a couple of 5m plus lengths of A23 S/H. The best cable I've heard for sure. Good call Chaz....
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 10 Oct 2015, 05:24 pm: I do what I can. 5m? Hmm used? Hmm

You know, there are so many good cables out there now.
A friend got a stash of them from Cable Co and we listened and listened in his system.
Many were voiced so similar, at least coming thru his system. Sometimes small degrees of change, not always improvements. Of course there were some that got an almost immediate dismissal. At least with his system.
Yours could be different.
Trouble with some are the astronomical prices. For what? A tad more open, a tad more bass.
You really need to be able to hear it in your system, and have a money back option.
Unless of course I say it's better! Lol.

Two weeks? Hey, maybe I'll beat you, Rob. You come paint my new porch railing and steps and listen over here..
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: mgsboedmisodpc2 on 13 Oct 2015, 01:27 am: 12,485.00 € Price incl. VAT, plus delivery = 14,172.33 USD..Standard VAT rate is 15% = 2,125.8495 so we have $12,046.48..and a U.S. importer would double the price maybe resulting in a 24K USD price..so anyone order from blackpearls-shop.de yet?
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: threadkiller on 13 Oct 2015, 04:37 am: Hardly... that's not how it works. Keep your pants on.
We'll know in due time. Maybe they'll be here in time for Santa to deliver...
Title: Re: Well Tempered Lab Royale 400 with 16" tonearm. It weighs in at a healthy 46kg.
Post by: rob400 on 15 Oct 2015, 05:55 pm: It's actually priced closer to $16000 (10KGBP) from dealers here in the UK and I have it from a good authority that it sounds amazing! Just waiting for one of you US guys to here it and post views.