AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => VMPS Speakers => Topic started by: Brian Cheney on 10 Feb 2005, 03:09 am

Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Brian Cheney on 10 Feb 2005, 03:09 am: We have finally found an amp for our woofers!

500W rms/8 Ohms
1000Wrms/4 Ohms
Elec. xover 30Hz-200Hz at 12dB
single band parametric EQ 20 to 80Hz, adj. Q from .1 to 1.0
Encapsulated and damped with Dynamat for in-cabinet installation
Class AB output stage with high efficiency downconverting power supply
excellent sound quality

Best part: price is $400! (add $17 shipping)

This amp is also available for the same price from Part Express, but we add a 13ft heavy-duty RCA interconnect and Dynamat on the capsule.

The amp can be bolted to the back baffle of any VMPS sub or installed inside (10" sq cutout required).

If you're ordering any sub we'll cut the hole for the amp and install at no extra charge, and with free shipping.

Hope this pleases a lot of folks.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: John Casler on 10 Feb 2005, 04:35 am: Looks like someone has been reading my mind. :mrgreen:

I was just talking to someone about this very subject last night.

Below is more information on the unit: Great stuff B :wink:

Quote

One of the most technologically advanced subwoofer amplifiers on the market!

This new subwoofer amplifier is based on state-of-the-art Class G circuit topology that combines the proven high power, high fidelity characteristics of a Class AB amplifier with a patented tracking down converter power supply to achieve an operating efficiency up to 86%.

You get the efficiency of a Class D amplifier without compromising audio quality and reliability. The class AB output stage provides the clean and low-distortion sound that audiophiles demand, without any instability problems of other high-efficiency amplifier designs.

This American designed and engineered amplifier uses patented circuitry that continuously tracks the input signal to modulate or control the voltage available to the output stage. This "tracking" capability delivers the exact amount of power based on demand instead of constantly keeping it in reserve, so the output stage only draws the amount of power that is required at any given time. This means less energy is wasted as heat, and more power is available for the subwoofer driver.

High power Class AB output stage

Patented tracking downconverter power supply

Full parametric bass EQ

Phase reversal switch

Auto On/Off

Advanced soft clip circuitry

Toroidal power supply transformer

Power output: 512 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 1024 watts RMS @ 4 ohms

S/N ratio: 98 dB (A-weighted)

Low-pass crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave

Auto On/Off

Dimensions: 11-15/16" W x 11-15/16" H x 5-1/4" D

And pics:

(http://www.partsexpress.com/imageslarge/300-808l.jpg)

(http://www.partsexpress.com/imageslarge/300-808i.jpg)

As you can see, it is basically fully enclosed to reduce vibration to key parts.

DID SOMEONE SAY 1024 WATTS @ 4 ohms???? :o :o
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: tkp on 10 Feb 2005, 04:46 am: If this is the amp you are talking about which available from Parts Express

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=300-808

then I have a few comments on it.

Some one I trusted use the 500 Watts version of this amp with great success (driving dual 12" Peerless XL woofers) so I would say that the 1000 Watts version should be even better. However, there are a few things people need to be aware of before getting this amp and they are:

a) There is no speaker level input.
b) The RCA input impedance is 12 Kohms. This is a tough load for passive and/or plate couple output tube preamp. Using a single RCA output from preamp to drive both this amp and the main amp could result in a load below 10 Kohms.

Other than the above, this is a real good unit for the money.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: gongos on 10 Feb 2005, 06:12 am: I have one of these powering my VMPS 215 and can't imagine improving on its performance. The only problem it trying to figure out where to put it since I bought mine before this deal came about.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Bingenito on 10 Feb 2005, 12:02 pm: I purchased 2 of the 500watt models to save rack space from the Crown K1 and a DBX DriveRack PA.

The EQ takes some work to get right compared to the DBX but once you have the EQ right the amps sound great.

I sold the K1 and DBX and have not looked back.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: MaxCast on 10 Feb 2005, 12:03 pm: Is the eq level boost and cut or only boost?
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: woodsyi on 10 Feb 2005, 01:33 pm: Is it 2nd (per BC) or 4th (per JC) order lowpass? Can a larger sub play upto 300Hz?
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: ctviggen on 10 Feb 2005, 01:47 pm: The data from Parts Express states the following:

The "EQ Level" permits the application of up to 6dB of boost or 14.5dB of cut at the selected frequency and
bandwidth.

It allows you to enter both frequency and bandwidth. (Only one peak or trough can be corrected, though.) It also says, "24 dB/octave".
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: MaxCast on 10 Feb 2005, 02:05 pm: Thanks, Bob.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: ctviggen on 10 Feb 2005, 02:23 pm: No problem -- I was seriously considering this amp, so I downloaded the specs for it. I would've bought it, except that I couldn't figure out where to put it. Adding it right to the sub is a great idea.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: doug s. on 10 Feb 2005, 04:06 pm: i'd still get a qsc stereo amp before i'd buy two of these... at street prices, $800 will get ya mondo qsc plx amp...

doug s.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: jackman on 10 Feb 2005, 04:44 pm: Do you have a link or suggested place to get the QSC? I don't know much about that kind of gear (Pro) and I'm planning to get some subs soon. Isn't QSC a Monster subsidiary? :D

Thanks!

J

PS-are they available at audioadvisor.com? Just kidding!
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: nathanm on 10 Feb 2005, 04:53 pm: Quote from: jackman
Isn't QSC a Monster subsidiary? :D

Not yet...they're working on it. Give 'em some time will ya!? Actually I think "The QSC" was a Japanese movie monster wasn't it? Better sue them just in case. :P

The amp sounds like a good idea. Now all it needs is a "putty knob". Maybe with hash mark graphics of ever-increasing white peas. :wink:
Title: amp
Post by: Brian Cheney on 10 Feb 2005, 04:55 pm: Parts Express sells the QSC amps at a good discount.

Apart from the power, the plate amp has the electronic crossover and equalizer. You can get these things on the QSC but the minimum tab would be higher, and since their xover uses plug-in modules instead of continuously variable control, QSC is less flexible.

QSC and Monster are not related.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: ctviggen on 10 Feb 2005, 05:08 pm: And the fan on the QSC I have is pretty loud, so loud that I took the QSC out of my rack and put it behind my system (where it's even louder, unfortunately). I'm going to replace the fan, as the QSC seems to drive the Largers very well.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: doug s. on 10 Feb 2005, 05:28 pm: i have had good dealings w/joel at fullcompass.com (x1116).
http://fullcompass.com/
if ya did a websearch, ya may be able to beat fullcompass' prices on any given item; it waries...

qsc's home page:
http://www.qscaudio.com/

here's a link to some qsc plx amps on ebay:
http://search-desc.ebay.com/qsc-plx_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQsojsZ1QQfromZR10QQcatrefZC6QQftsZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsadisZ200QQfposZ20892QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch

brian is right - ya can get x-over modules for the qsc amps, but i'd yust spring for an outboard x-over. for <$200 (again - pro-audio pricing), you could get a behringer, dbx, art, etc., x-over. tho likely not as transparent as something like a db-systems or marchand x-over, it's hard to imagine it wouldn't be at least as good, if not better than something built in to a plate amp...

re: qsc fan noise, there were several posts here in the past, that dealt w/folks finding a much quieter than stock fan for these amps - an easy swap, iirc...

ymmv,

doug s.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: jackman on 10 Feb 2005, 05:30 pm: Quote
Parts Express sells the QSC amps at a good discount.

Apart from the power, the plate amp has the electronic crossover and equalizer. You can get these things on the QSC but the minimum tab would be higher, and since their xover uses plug-in modules instead of continuously variable control, QSC is less flexible.

QSC and Monster are not related.

Thanks for the information. I almost pulled the trigger on a simliar but lower powered PE amp when it was on sale around $200 over Christmas. The amp you have selected seems like a much better choice because it's more powerful and the VMPS upgrades make it a very good value.

Looking at the amp, I don't understand how you could bolt it to the sub. Do they have screw tabs on the inside edge? Not having to cut holes in the boxes would be a great feature for your customers. I've heard VMPS subs and found them to be very powerful and articulate. These amps look like a good combo.

I was just jerking Doug's chain on the Monster reference. :D :D :D

Cheers,

Jack
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: ctviggen on 10 Feb 2005, 05:43 pm: I'm definitely looking into the fan situation, as the amp seems great for the subs. The amp doesn't even blink at high outputs.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Wayne1 on 10 Feb 2005, 05:44 pm: QSC Audio has a DSP that can be added on the back of certain of their amplifiers. The DSP-4 (which I have and use in all shows I have attended) offers multiple parametric EQ and crossover frequencies and slopes. It does a whole lot more, as well.

It can be used with other amps. It will just need a small power supply to plug into it.

It will interface with almost any laptop and you can use a calibrated mike and RTA software to fully dial in your room's responce.

It retails for $685 but it gives you a whole lot of processing power

Here are some of it's features:

Multiple Parametric Filters, assignable anywhere in the signal chain:
Variable Frequency
Variable Gain
Variable Q
Bypass (one EQ Band)
Bypass all EQs
Add EQ
Delete EQ
Show Response

High and Low-Pass Crossover Filters, assignable anywhere in the signal chain:
Butterworth 6, 12, 18, 24 dB per octave slope
Bessel 6, 12, 18, 24 dB per octave slope
Linkwitz-Riley 12 and 24 dB per octave slope
Bypass (one EQ Band)
Bypass all EQs
Add EQ
Delete EQ
Show Response

# Built-in Noise Generator (Pink & White)
# Built-in Variable Frequency Tone Generator
# Signal Polarity Reversal
# RMS and Peak Metering with Clip Indication
# Add or delete up to 7 additional bands of "EQ" per filter block
# Visual editing of composite filter response, using cursor controls in graphical display
# Individual or group bypass of EQ bands per filter block

QSC Audio DSP-4 (http://www.qscaudio.com/products/dsp/dsp4/dsp4.htm)
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: doug s. on 10 Feb 2005, 05:51 pm: Quote from: Wayne1
...It retails for $685 but it gives you a whole lot of processing power ...

it is worth pointing out that pro-audio dealers typically discount this "retail" pricing by at least 30%, & sometimes quite a bit more...

doug s.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: woodsyi on 10 Feb 2005, 06:17 pm: Wayne,

Correct me if I am wrong. DSP-4 by QSC can be programed to keep stereo subs in phase (or out of phase in push-pull) with time delays while offereing multiple band EQ. I can place it after my Crown K2 which is highpassed at 50 Hz via an analog active filter. Signals lower than 50 Hz will be digitized, DSP aplied and then sent to my sub(s) with perfect phase and parametric equalization at selected frequencies of chosen band width. I get to keep analog sound where it counts and digital control where it is most needed. HMMMMMM There has to be something wrong. It can't be true. Can it?
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Wayne1 on 10 Feb 2005, 06:28 pm: The DSP-4 would be placed before the K-2. It operates at line levels.

Everything else you have written is correct.

Go to the link in my previous post and you can download the operation manual and the software that controls the DSP-4. That way you can see for yourself how it works.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: gongos on 10 Feb 2005, 07:12 pm: I have a question about how to bolt one of the PE plate amps to a VMPS sub. It looks like I'd have to use 12 inch bolts unless I face the controls towards the sub. :o
Title: amp
Post by: Brian Cheney on 10 Feb 2005, 07:37 pm: Amp is about 4" deep, long woodscrews will work.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: gongos on 10 Feb 2005, 07:45 pm: I have the 1000w one. It's 6 inches deep maybe a little more considering the wires coming out of the back of it. With long screws and a big plate amp hanging off the back, the sub will look pretty goofy.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: ohenry on 10 Feb 2005, 08:25 pm: If you want it outboard, it's pretty simple to make a case from 3/4 in. wood and drop the amp in. It only needs the four sides (no bottom) to conceal the plastic. Also, you'll need to loosen the plastic case and route the bottom-exiting output wires to binding posts that can be side mounted.

Of course, that's one more box on the floor, but mine looks okay that way.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Bingenito on 11 Feb 2005, 12:53 am: I agree I would not bolt a plate amp to a nice sub cabinet. That would kill resale and look like crap.

I built some simple cabinets for the amps out of cabinet grade pine and stained them Walnut to match my speakers. They look good. The project took about 3 hrs total.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: drboyd on 11 Feb 2005, 04:14 am: For a thousand watts, the speaker connecting wires look a little skinny. Or it that just me?
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Rick Craig on 14 Feb 2005, 03:49 pm: I have a few customers using this amp and they're very happy with it. One thing to keep in mind is that without test equipment it's very difficult to set up this for optimal results. Some of the VMPS subs in particular will be hard to tweak with adding equalization and adjusting the filter "Q" for passive radiator systems.

The parametric control isn't versatile enough to really be useful in taming room modes. One thing they don't tell you is that using the parametric feature can change the crossover point and -3db points. All of these settings (gain, crossover point, Q, boost) interact with each other so testing the unit with a measurement system is really important. There are several outboard units from various companies that are much more effective in dealing with room problems. It can be used to contour the response but again this is tricky, especially if your -3db points are fairly close together.

Be sure to warn your customers about equalizing their systems with ported or passive radiator enclosures. With up to 6db of boost it will be easy to overload the woofers and possibly damage them from too much excursion. It would be better to incorporate the amp into the design so that the box is tuned properly rather than adding the amp to an existing system. That way there's no guessing with adding / removing mass with the passive radiator and you can avoid response / power handling problems.

Rick
Title: amp
Post by: Brian Cheney on 14 Feb 2005, 04:20 pm: I doubt anyone will be using the parametric EQ to boost LF response. The idea is to tame the worst primary room mode. We do pretune the woofer to the amp to make things easier. Owners confused by the EQ feature can leave it off.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: ctviggen on 14 Feb 2005, 05:10 pm: After analyzing my room using ETF, there's no way I'd use an EQ to boost a dip, as there's at least 4 major peaks that could be tamed by the EQ. I believe the peaks are caused by room modes (though the calculated frequencies of room modes don't match the actual peaks), but I've also not done any tweaking whatsoever, and I know that the Largers I have are overdamped and my NHT X2 crossover has adjustments that could be modified.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Rory B. on 15 Feb 2005, 03:40 am: I have the 500w version of this amplifier, and I use it to drive a very clean-sounding aluminum-cone bass driver from TC Sounds (Stryke AV12MKII) and I can also say that this is one majorly clean, efficient amplifier. I think it's one of the best parts that Parts Express has ever picked up.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: John Casler on 15 Feb 2005, 04:03 am: Quote from: ctviggen
After analyzing my room using ETF, there's no way I'd use an EQ to boost a dip, as there's at least 4 major peaks that could be tamed by the EQ. I believe the peaks are caused by room modes (though the calculated frequencies of room modes don't match the actual peaks), but I've also not done any tweaking whatsoever, and I know that the Largers I have are overdamped and my NHT X2 crossover has adjustments that could be modified.

Bob, where are your peaks?
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: rosconey on 16 Feb 2005, 07:56 pm: time to update the web sight big b. atleast you found a good one.

see why we point with pride to our products. The amplifiers in virtually all "powered" woofers are dreadful Class B or (even worse) Class D designs which no self-respecting audiophile would tolerate anywhere else in his system. Indeed, the high power Class D amps in some very expensive subwoofers, which we have examined and tested at length, are the worst measuring, worst performing (unable to reproduce even a good sine wave), worst sounding amplifiers we have encountered in the past 30 years. Cheap, bad amps combined with equalization (which robs the sub of dynamic range), limiters (100dB to 104dB max SPL), and high moving mass (up to two pounds in some subs) make most modern powered subwoofers little more than a joke, suitable only for reproducing sound effects. Our advice: use your main amp, or just about any good solid state 100W or more separate amp, to hook up the VMPS New Standard or Larger Subwoofers for performance well beyond those highly advertised competitors at about half their price.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Woodsea on 27 Feb 2005, 04:05 am: Brian or John-
I have the OSW and there is no way here in Mongolia I am going to upgrade or buy a second sub in government apts. Is the 1000w overkill? Could I, should I just get the 500w amp? I am currently using a 100w Carver stereo :oops:
Thanks,
Eric
Title: amp
Post by: Brian Cheney on 27 Feb 2005, 04:25 am: The Class D and Class B amps I criticize on the website are as bad today as they were a few years ago. The plate amp I like is Class AB with a downconverting power supply. Sound quality is excellent.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: John Casler on 28 Feb 2005, 03:52 pm: Quote from: Woodsea
Brian or John-
I have the OSW and there is no way here in Mongolia I am going to upgrade or buy a second sub in government apts. Is the 1000w overkill? Could I, should I just get the 500w amp? I am currently using a 100w Carver stereo :oops:
Thanks,
Eric

Hi Eric,

The 500w version is $100 less for 1/2 the power. Either would certainly outdo the Carver.

The 500w version (actually 540w) should power an "Original" sub quite well.

Do you really live in Mongolia?
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Woodsea on 1 Mar 2005, 02:37 am: John,
Since December...We will be here for 2 years total. I then plan on moving to either central or south america for a 2-3 years.
Thanks for the answer...would you guys be able to tune it for my OSW?
Oh I know it will sound much better than the Carver. It just was free and readily available.
Thanks,
Eric
Title: Sub Amps' design
Post by: Pocketchange on 1 Mar 2005, 02:55 am: Isn't this sub amp Big B is pitching a Carver design? Or did I miss something when reading the Carver/Sunfire website? They both seem to quack like a "Bob Carver" duck... IMO. :o
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: John Casler on 1 Mar 2005, 03:16 am: Quote from: Woodsea
John,
Since December...We will be here for 2 years total. I then plan on moving to either central or south america for a 2-3 years.
Thanks for the answer...would you guys be able to tune it for my OSW?
Oh I know it will sound much better than the Carver. It just was free and readily available.
Thanks,
Eric

Eric,

Not sure there is too much tuning that can be done here on the amp side.

It has several adjustments (phase, frequency, gain, as well a a single band equalizer)

Since you will be "adding" the amp to the sub in your room, you would have to tune the putty and the equalizer, if needed.

Remember, the equalizer should not be used to "boost" dips, but instead it should be used to "tame" the biggest or worst "spike".
Title: Parts Express
Post by: sbcgroup1 on 11 Mar 2005, 06:33 pm: Oh no...a parts express amp & $400 sub:(

What is the world coming to.......

-Ed
Title: Re: Parts Express
Post by: warnerwh on 12 Mar 2005, 03:53 am: Quote from: sbcgroup1
Oh no...a parts express amp & $400 sub:(

What is the world coming to.......

-Ed

The world is coming to be a better place for audiophiles. That's a great way to go. The amps are good and with high quality subs like VMPS you have great bass that's easy to hook up and use. Note this is the best and most expensive amp Parts Express sells and is well designed.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: James Romeyn on 3 Apr 2005, 08:34 pm: Wow!!!!!!!!!! What a coincidence!!!!!!!!!!! The same exact amp I told Brian about, two years or so ago, when it first arrived. Remember my posts about it back then?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Parts Express
Post by: ScottMayo on 10 Jun 2005, 01:49 pm: Quote
The world is coming to be a better place for audiophiles. That's a great way to go. The amps are good and with high quality subs like VMPS you have great bass that's easy to hook up and use. Note this is the best and most expensive amp Parts Express sells and is well designed.

Has anyone looked at Outlaw's M-200? It's also a class G (AB with downconverting power supply), it's cheaper, it has auto-shutoff, and it seems to have *much* better numbers all around. Where it falls down is in wattage - 300W into 4 ohms.

Now I realize that the human ear isn't so fussy about THD at 20Hz, and that, subjectively, more power means more impact - and stuff below 30Hz is all about impact. Few people buy subs, I'm guessing, to have purely polite, dry, restrained deep bass experiences. But I wonder if a more precision and less shatter-the-neighbors-windows power is a reasonable tradeoff. Anyone have any experience in this area?
Title: Re: Parts Express
Post by: hoosier21 on 27 Jul 2005, 05:45 pm: Quote from: ScottMayo
Has anyone looked at Outlaw's M-200? It's also a class G (AB with downconverting power supply), it's cheaper, it has auto-shutoff, and it seems to have *much* better numbers all around. Where it falls down is in wattage - 300W into 4 ohms. quote]

Doesn't have the crossover either, so it's not a real good deal if one needs the crossover.

Russ
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: John B on 13 Aug 2005, 04:15 am: I'll be demo'ing the VMPS Dedicated Powered Sub tomorrow for some members of the Bay Area Audiophile Society. They have heard my system with the "BOMBs", which is a bass enhancement device for my monitor speakers. It did a pretty fair job of making small speakers (two 6" midbass drivers each) sound full range. It was a comment by one of the members of the club that got me into investigation mode for adding a powered sub. He said that though the bass was certainly there, even down to a measured 25hz, to him it was more of an intellectual bass experience; not something exactly realistic or viseral. Wait till he hears it now! Nothing intellectual about B's Bass :mrgreen: If any local Circle members would like to join us email me at jmbeavers@sbcglobal.net for directions to the debut of some real B Bass in the Beav's system. :lol: The debut starts at 1 p.m.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: John Casler on 13 Aug 2005, 06:10 am: Quote from: John B
Nothing intellectual about B's Bass ..

Hmmmm....I wonder if B, would rather be known as intellectual, or visceral??? :o

In any event, I know mine is "aural-cerebral" with a "body punch" :rock:
Title: M200
Post by: jhenderson010759 on 13 Aug 2005, 01:38 pm: Quote from: ScottMayo
Has anyone looked at Outlaw's M-200? It's also a class G (AB with downconverting power supply), it's cheaper, it has auto-shutoff, and it seems to have *much* better numbers all around. Where it falls down is in wattage - 300W into 4 ohms.

Now I realize that the human ear isn't so fussy about THD at 20Hz, and that, subjectively, more power means more impact - and stuff below 30Hz is all about impact. Few people buy subs, I'm guessing, to have purely polite, dry, restrained deep bass experiences. But I w ...

I use the M200s with the Poseidon subs on my primary rig. Great amp, but you do need an external XO, such as the DCX2496 or DEQX.

Jim
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Corbin Johnson on 7 Sep 2005, 06:30 pm: I just purchased one of the 1000 w amps from VMPS and I'm pleasantly surprised. I was using on of the 300 watt channels from my Cinenova 3, which I liked, but I wanted the convenience of being able to connect and separately control the input from my MiniMax preamp for stereo and my sub LFE from my surround sound receiver.

I'm most impressed that the bass is tighter and has more punch than with the Cinenova. The impact from a kick drum has more dynamic slam than before. The deep sound of an acoustic bass is nice and tight with the low vibrations, but it was also equally nice and tight with the Cinenova. I don't know if the improvement is due to the extra wattage or some other factor, but I like it.

Corbin
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: John Casler on 8 Sep 2005, 12:49 am: Quote from: Corbin Johnson
I just purchased one of the 1000 w amps from VMPS and I'm pleasantly surprised. I was using on of the 300 watt channels from my Cinenova 3, which I liked, but I wanted the convenience of being able to connect and separately control the input from my MiniMax preamp for stereo and my sub LFE from my surround sound receiver.

I'm most impressed that the bass is tighter and has more punch than with the Cinenova. The impact from a kick drum has more dynamic slam than before. The deep sound of an acoustic ...

Hi Corbin,

Glad that the amp did the job for you.

With much more power and the ability to make all the adjustments at the amp it should allow you more "tweakability" :mrgreen: , and you know how we like that. :lol:

Did they send you a manual with the amp? If not it is on line. E-mail me if you need the address. I just ask since you might want to play with the equalization capabilities too.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: Corbin Johnson on 9 Sep 2005, 01:38 pm: John,

I did get a manual I also downloaded the graphs showing how the Q knob on equalizer can adjust the slopes. Initially I didn't think I could hear any benefit from the equalizer since I have the crossover set around 40-50 HZ. But after further tweaking I have found a little improvement by slightly turning down the frequency in the 20-30HZ range and turning up the overall input level accordingly. This gives even more more impact in the low-mid bass range without the very low end overpowering the room. I have found the equalizer adjustments to be very sensitive since the range of adjustments are very broad and I'm only using amp for the narrow frequency range of 45Hz to 20Hz. Yes, tweakability is fun and often good.

Thanks,

Corbin
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: ricmon on 18 Nov 2005, 06:00 pm: check out another source for this amp.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-808&raid=44&rak=300-808
Title: amp
Post by: Brian Cheney on 18 Nov 2005, 06:16 pm: The sub amp is available from P.E. or from VMPS at the same price.
Title: After 21 years--Powered Subs!!
Post by: JRace on 13 Dec 2005, 12:46 am: Here it is from a canadian website:
http://www.solen.ca/sub1000.htm
Not sure on price yet...
Title: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: John Casler on 29 Sep 2006, 09:21 pm: PBS for all FLOOR STANDERS

Well things just keep getting better and better.

As most of you know, Brian, some time ago, found a 500/1000w amp with Class AB output stage with high efficiency downconverting power supply and excellent sound quality.

This was in the form of a "plate" amp, but fully enclosed to reduce vibration problems.

It has been successfully added to all the SUBs in the VMPS line.

Well I get the bright idea to power the RM40 and RM2 "bass systems" (only cabinets that it will fit in) and so came the PBS (Powered Bass System)

Downside was, you have to "cut the cabinet" and the intrusion reduces cabinet volume, as well as making it a project to mount the other binding posts.

But the feedback was pretty good, and a couple "tubeaholics" found it just what the doctor ordered.

The other problem was that it wouldn't fit the RM30.

Well now that has changed.

The amp has now been introduced as a "stand alone" component, and can be implemented to "any" of the Floorstanding speakers. It can be placed in your equipment rack, or placed behind the speaker with your OXO, it is up to you.

I have heard some swear by short speaker cables to their woofs and others like short IC's. No matter, since this gives you the ability to do either.

Brian, does have to "MOD" the amps to perform to his parameters, so these are not stock amps when used in the PBS application.

The other good news is that not only can "new" VMPS'ers use them, but so can those with the most recent x-over changes (where the low pass is slightly above 200Hz)

B, is offering these for $598 each, either with new orders or for the older speakers.

I think they will be especially incredible with the RM40, what with the new "midbass" driver and vitrified Passive Radiator :o :o WOW!!

The RM2 which already has significant bass will be "off the hook" as my daughter used to say.

And while some have thought the RM30 slightly bass shy.... This promises to extract every drop of performance from that woofer system and leave bruises from the 6.5 inchers from every rim shot.

Gentlemen-------

Smokem if ya gottem :smoke:

And if you don't hav'em, your VMPS dealer can tell ya where to go :lol:

To get them :green:
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: thegage on 12 Oct 2006, 09:52 pm: John,

Can you clarify a couple of points?

1. How many amps are needed for a pair of speakers, one or two?
2. Do you need an OXO to use them?
3. Can they be used with the RM1? (I run with a tube amp, an have longed for a decent bass amp for a while!)

John K.
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: John Casler on 12 Oct 2006, 10:56 pm: Quote from: thegage on 12 Oct 2006, 09:52 pm
John,

Can you clarify a couple of points?

1. How many amps are needed for a pair of speakers, one or two?
2. Do you need an OXO to use them?
3. Can they be used with the RM1? (I run with a tube amp, an have longed for a decent bass amp for a while!)

John K.

1) You need an amp for each speaker

2) You do not need the OXO

3) They can be used with all the RM series that have two pair of binding posts (Bass and MR/Tweater)

You simply connect to the Bass Posts (upper)
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: Eugene2 on 13 Oct 2006, 02:40 pm: What about Gallos bass amp? Would that work well?
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: BobRex on 13 Oct 2006, 03:42 pm: If the Gallo provides a 24dB crossover at 280Hz, then maybe. But I wouldn't bet on it.
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: John Casler on 13 Oct 2006, 06:18 pm: Quote from: Eugene2 on 13 Oct 2006, 02:40 pm
What about Gallos bass amp? Would that work well?

Not totally familiar with the Gallo, but I don't think their LP filter is sufficiently flexible to reach the frequencies without rolloff. Their literature claims 200hz max, and the PBS is "modded" to reach the 220+Hz needed for the newer VMPS

It is not nearly as powerfull. You would need to purchase 2 and bridge them and even then they would only be 650w not 1000w, and the bridging would likely "double" the distortion in the higher frequncies.

Also if memory serves me correctly, it has a fan.
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: ctviggen on 13 Oct 2006, 06:31 pm: John, I take it that the plate amp has an adjustable output (to be able to level match with the amp used on the mids/tweets)?
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: John Casler on 13 Oct 2006, 07:47 pm: Quote from: ctviggen on 13 Oct 2006, 06:31 pm
John, I take it that the plate amp has an adjustable output (to be able to level match with the amp used on the mids/tweets)?

Yes :green: perfectly
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: seadogs1 on 17 Oct 2006, 06:54 pm: John, with the PBS on the RM40's do you still need a high current amp for the rest of the system or how much power do you need for the rest of the system? Can a tube amp be used for the rest of the system?
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: warnerwh on 17 Oct 2006, 07:27 pm: Seadogs1: A tube amp will work with the planar/ribbon section fine. The load is an easy one as it's purely resistive. I'd still want a decent amount of power, say a minimum of 50 wpc.
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: John Casler on 18 Oct 2006, 01:55 pm: Quote from: seadogs1 on 17 Oct 2006, 06:54 pm
John, with the PBS on the RM40's do you still need a high current amp for the rest of the system or how much power do you need for the rest of the system? Can a tube amp be used for the rest of the system?

Hi Seadogs1,

I'm still out of town, but able to log in here a bit.

The RM40's "love" current.

Your room size and general listening level will determine your power needs.

I know the Panels and Tweats will play well with as little as 25w, but they likely will not play at high SPL's.

Brian has suggested at least 60w for this purpose.

I have clients who use the 25w and are happy, but I would suggest that "more" would be needed to satisfy at higher listening levels.

Woodsyi, uses tubes on his RM40's, maybe he will join in and share his experience.
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: matix on 20 Oct 2006, 01:21 am: Will this be availale in 220-240V?
Title: Re: PBS (Powered Bass System) now available for all Floor Standers
Post by: John Casler on 20 Oct 2006, 06:53 am: Quote from: matix on 20 Oct 2006, 01:21 am
Will this be availale in 220-240V?

I don't think so. Nothing in the literature or manual mentions such capability. I'll check with the distributor.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Biggalo on 29 Jan 2007, 09:34 pm: Quote from: Brian Cheney on 10 Feb 2005, 03:09 am
We have finally found an amp for our woofers!

Any photos available of the Powered Sub for The V60 in Tower (as opposed to cube) form?
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: John Casler on 29 Jan 2007, 09:50 pm: Quote from: Biggalo on 29 Jan 2007, 09:34 pm
Quote from: Brian Cheney on 10 Feb 2005, 03:09 am
We have finally found an amp for our woofers!

Any photos available of the Powered Sub for The V60 in Tower (as opposed to cube) form?

Hi Biggalo,

They will appear similar to this artists rendering without the slot.

Plus the bottom most driver will be a Passive Radiator rather than a driver as depicted.

Also, not shown is a 15" side firing PR.

(http://www.vmpsaudio.com/pics/VSS&VLA.gif)

I don't beleive B, will have the cabinets for these until later this next month, so no pics until then
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: ctviggen on 29 Jan 2007, 10:21 pm: John,

So, there's going to be two passive radiators? Four active drivers and two passive radiators?
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Housteau on 4 Feb 2007, 09:27 pm: What is the technical reason for the driver in the VSS to be off center? Just curious.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: ctviggen on 4 Feb 2007, 09:49 pm: I'd guess to provide the room to put the plate amp in.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Housteau on 5 Feb 2007, 04:30 pm: .....or, I wonder if is an offset so both drivers have the room to move back and forth freely?
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: ctviggen on 5 Feb 2007, 04:36 pm: Woops! You could be right. I didn't realize there were two drivers. (In a push-pull configuration?)
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Housteau on 5 Feb 2007, 05:45 pm: The active and passive. I remember from another posting that this new 15" woofer has some some size and weight to it.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: John Casler on 5 Feb 2007, 11:13 pm: I'm sure when Brian feels a bit better, he'll weigh in, but I overheard him telling someone at CES that he places the Driver "off center" for acoustic reasons having to do with internal cabinet reflections and waves.
Title: VLA Final Drawings
Post by: dubravko on 28 Apr 2007, 01:46 pm: VLA Final Drawings

(http://www.vmpsaudio.com/audiocircle/VLA%20drawing.jpg)

In rosewood...

(http://www.vmpsaudio.com/audiocircle/VLA%20rosewood.jpg)

In macassar ebony...

(http://www.vmpsaudio.com/audiocircle/VLA%20ebony.jpg)
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Housteau on 28 Apr 2007, 06:21 pm: This design change has made the wait very worthwhile. This is a world class look.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Brian Cheney on 28 Apr 2007, 06:45 pm: I took Dave's suggestion and changed from a grillframe to small flush grills like those over the 6.5" on the V60. It makes the VLA towers more of a piece with the V60's and is indeed cosmetically a step up.

Now if I can get the factory to run them we'll all be happy.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: John Casler on 28 Nov 2007, 05:31 pm: Quote from: Brian Cheney on 10 Feb 2005, 03:09 am
We have finally found an amp for our woofers!

500W rms/8 Ohms
1000Wrms/4 Ohms
Elec. xover 30Hz-200Hz at 12dB
single band parametric EQ 20 to 80Hz, adj. Q from .1 to 1.0
Encapsulated and damped with Dynamat for in-cabinet installation
Class AB output stage with high efficiency downconverting power supply
excellent sound quality

Best part: price is $400! (add $17 shipping)

This amp is also available for the same price from Part Express, but we add a 13ft heavy-duty RCA interconnect and Dynamat on the capsule.

The amp can be bolted to the back baffle of any VMPS sub or installed inside (10" sq cutout required).

If you're ordering any sub we'll cut the hole for the amp and install at no extra charge, and with free shipping.

Hope this pleases a lot of folks.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Imperial on 1 Dec 2007, 07:09 pm: Wow! That is one cool looking sub tower there that VLA. :drool:
Just a thought... pairing up Super tower III's with a pair of VLA's ...
That would be massive... :thumb:

Just on a whim here, how small a room could that work in?

Imperial
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Brian Cheney on 1 Dec 2007, 07:22 pm: We will be playing three V60's and two VLA's in the trinaural configuration in our CES booth, St Tropez 1801, this January.

The room is 13x19' and will be heavily treated at the speaker end with Sonex and bass traps.

Attend the Show, or read critical comments, to answer your question.
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Imperial on 1 Dec 2007, 07:41 pm: Quote from: Brian Cheney on 1 Dec 2007, 07:22 pm
Attend the Show, or read critical comments, to answer your question.
Duly noted...
By the way, I'm currently helping my brother build a new bathroom. A link to some pics (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1066)
It has those EXACT measurements!!! So I know just how big (read small for that many tall towers..) that room at CES will be.
Ok. That ought to punch well I imagine.. :o

Imperial
Title: Re: After 21 years--Powered Subs and Powered Bass Systems
Post by: Brian Cheney on 1 Dec 2007, 08:34 pm: At the 2007 CES with twin V60's and two VSS subs placed on the short wall of the same room, I was leaning against the back wall when a loud bass drum went off during playback of Holst's "Planets".

For a brief time I was leaning against air, as the walls buckled from the pressure wave.