[Modified]

Thanks Everyone for your feedback.

@Modified...yup I am seeking #2 for sure. Full, warm, romantic and analogue sounding. Btw...do you have experience with the Teac UD503 and would they qualify too? Sorry...I know this is a Gustard thread...but I do need recommendations for under 1K dacs...new or used which fit the criteria. Prominent and unrefined HF is a definite no no. Anyone else? Thanks for your help!

Now we have some A20H/X20 comparison, obviously only with headphones and of course not with X20pro
http://www.head-fi.org/t/819083/gustard-a20h-dac-dual-ak4497eq-analog-preamp-headphone-amp-all-in-one/75#post_13017403

[PeteG]

Looks like the X20 Pro is starting to come out.

X20 Pro

[orientalexpress]

I never trust those headphone comparison  ,there so much going on with speakers that headphone can't pick up.

[quadman]

Looks like the X20 Pro is starting to come out.

X20 Pro

If those are the real pictures of the dac at first glance the only difference appears to be the 9028 chip vs the 9018 chip plus a few cosmetics.  The output stage has a few new parts but that could just be mfg change, Ric would know more about that.  Not sure how much better the 9028 handles 512 as my "old X20u" is very stable on 512 and sounds stunning.  Not sure it is worth the upgrade but new adaptors get 256 out of the box.  Which old adaptors can do pretty easily with a different driver.

[Ric Schultz]

The only difference I see is a different manufacturer of the relays.  The newer unit has more options for digital filter selection. 

The old one has already become an rare highly desirable antique, so they have raised the price considerably....he he:

http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html

[mresseguie]

Hot damn! At that price it MUST be good.

 

[navi]

The only difference I see is a different manufacturer of the relays.  The newer unit has more options for digital filter selection. 

The old one has already become an rare highly desirable antique, so they have raised the price considerably....he he:

http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html

I'm happy to sell mine to anyone for under $2000USD

[Anonamemouse]

I'm happy to sell mine to anyone for under $2000USD

Must be a fixer-upper... I'll skip on that one  

[Ric Schultz]

Have been playing with the new Gustard X20U Pro and can say for sure that it is way better than the older version.  These new 9028 DAC chips just have lower noise and distortion.  There is just way more information in every way.  Way more real.  Not more juicy or warm....the basic tonal color and everything is the same.  For instance, you hear every string resonate with all its harmonics....so it just sounds more richly real.  The 9018 DAC chip is muddy, by comparison.  The new Gustard Pro with my level one mod sounds better than the older DAC with my level 2.5 mods!  However, stock it is just good.  You will not hear all the glorious new details from the DAC chips with a stock unit.  The main CD I use to test with now sounds like 24/96....really!  I had no idea of how much musical information was on the disc.  By the way, if you are not using the usb input it sounds better to remove the usb board.  I am using coax from my modded Oppo 103.  Amazing sound!  I cannot wait to try the $400 Pulsar clock in it (suppose to kill the industry standard $30 Crystek clock so many use.

So, the older ESS DACs are now history.  You will see every manufacturer who uses ESS DACs in the next year update to these chips.....yes, they are incredible!  Several manufacturers already have product with the 9028 and a few are just starting to ship with the 9038 (Ayre has had their 9038 based DAC out for months....they have close relationship with ESS so got the chips first).  "Who wants yesterdays DAC chip, who wants yesterdays girl....nobody in the world"....he he...sing along. 

[soundboard]

Hi Ric, was wondering how much burn time you have on the new Gustard Pro , when you wrote this , alot of folks say about 200 hours before it really sounds good ?
Pat

[andycsb]

Hi again. Seeking user comments on the a20h. How is it? Narrowed it down to the Teac UD503 and the a20h. I am after a warm, full and romantic sounding dac. Thanks.

[wushuliu]

Is there an argument for ordering the  Gustard X20U Pro without the USB?  Would it be better to use a digital interface such as the Singxer SU1 for the best SQ? You can save ~$70 sans USB and put that money into a separate USB box. Which one?
Hmm....
Maybe I should get the integrated, just $70 so I can have something while I sort this all out.

Interesting question. Even though I'm using a different Dac I've been lurking to see if any Gustard users have also adopted various spdif converters/reclock solutions. I don't think anyone has. At the very least a Singxer F-1 should be in the mix for anyone using USB or the SU-1. Unless there is something really special about the Sabre chip design, I have a feeling folks could be getting more from their Gustard (outside of Ric's upgrades). http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singxer-F-1-XMOS-XU208-USB-Digital-Interface-384K-Coaxial-I2S-DSD256-With-case-/201716223254?hash=item2ef7394d16:g:kmMAAOSwImRYSfj8

Ric have you explored flip flop reclocks with these dacs? Specifically with the potato semi chips? Granted I have a different dac (Soekris R2R), but every iteration of a flip reclock I tried (and I tried a lot of variations) resulted in improved sound quality. Only comparable discussions I've seen are with the acko reclocks at diyaudio and the more obscure but brilliant work by some folks at tirnahifi forum. Seems like it'd be up your alley.

[Ric Schultz]

Right now I would say I have at least 300-400 hours on my Pro.  I think it is burned in!  You really don't need to do much burn in to hear what mods do.  The mods will do the same whether it is burned in or not.  Burn in makes very little difference compared to modding.....and this is with years of experience.'

There is no schematic with the Pro.  There is no way to find all the separate clocks or lines.....this thing is super dense and multi layered board....so flip flop reclocking or whatever is not in the works.

Singxer will be releasing a version of their thang with DSD512 capabilities soon.  This way you can upsample to DSD512 using HQplayer in a powerful 
Windows 10 computer and run an HDMI cable into the I2S input of the Gustard and hear the glory of HQplayers upsampling to DSD512.....suppose to be magic.

Just now ordering the Pulsar clock for my Gustard.....whoa baby!  Please see posts number 37 and 59 for comparisons to industry standard Crystek:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/258789-pulsar-clock-ultra-low-noise-ocxo-4.html

The Gustard is not warm, full and romantic.  It is accurate......when modded to the hilt, that is.  Stock it is OK.   If I were looking in the under $4000 price range for those qualities and more than this is what I would seriously look at.....it has dual mono AKM chips and nothing but tubes on the output....really nicely built....and you can change the coupling caps and tubes easily so you tubeheads will keep busy for months playing around with it.:

http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80

[wushuliu]

Right now I would say I have at least 300-400 hours on my Pro.  I think it is burned in!  You really don't need to do much burn in to hear what mods do.  The mods will do the same whether it is burned in or not.  Burn in makes very little difference compared to modding.....and this is with years of experience.'

There is no schematic with the Pro.  There is no way to find all the separate clocks or lines.....this thing is super dense and multi layered board....so flip flop reclocking or whatever is not in the works.

Singxer will be releasing a version of their thang with DSD512 capabilities soon.  This way you can upsample to DSD512 using HQplayer in a powerful 
Windows 10 computer and run an HDMI cable into the I2S input of the Gustard and hear the glory of HQplayers upsampling to DSD512.....suppose to be magic.

Just now ordering the Pulsar clock for my Gustard.....whoa baby!  Please see posts number 37 and 59 for comparisons to industry standard Crystek:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/258789-pulsar-clock-ultra-low-noise-ocxo-4.html

The Gustard is not warm, full and romantic.  It is accurate......when modded to the hilt, that is.  Stock it is OK.   If I were looking in the under $4000 price range for those qualities and more than this is what I would seriously look at.....it has dual mono AKM chips and nothing but tubes on the output....really nicely built....and you can change the coupling caps and tubes easily so you tubeheads will keep busy for months playing around with it.:

http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80

OMG that DAC looks awesome. Quality parts too. Dale resistors, Rubycon caps, Obbligatos... for $1k? Amazing.

Ah too bad about the reclocking/flip flop. That's a piece of the puzzle that will continue to remain under the radar I guess.

[Ric Schultz]

Dale resistors are ordinary.  I only use them in non critical places.  Nude Vishays wipe their butt (Dales cost 10 cents...Vishays cost $12).  So do surface mount Susumu (15 cents).  And those cap terminals are going to eat up detail.  Nice to A/B caps with but please take the board out and remove them suckers!  Solder the caps directly to the board.  Probably needs better rectifier diodes, WA Quantum chips, damping, power supply bypassing, remounting power transformers (not shown). etc......but still....stock it looks great for the money.

[quadman]

Hey, everyone just a quick update.  Ric called me last week about a new mod he tried that he was convinced would blow my mind, This weekend I installed the mod and I must say he was right it made a VERY nice and significant change to the (old x20u) dac, (he performed it in a pro version)  More body and weight for everything, vocalists and instruments, which also makes the stage appear larger and clearer with more information.  I was very impressed.  He is talking about offering this mod and possibly the AC mod together at a much lower price point then his full level 1 mod is priced now.  This could be a huge step up in SQ for little $.

[niner]

I thought I would join the party.
I received my Gustard X-20 Pro yesterday afternoon, purchased from Shenzhenaudio in China. If anyone has any doubts about them, they were great,
First thing I did was pop the top and twist the wires, didn't install the cardboard doughnuts because it was pouring rain and the socket to remove the nuts was in the shed. So I plugged it in and gave a listen.
I had some preconceived ideas as to the brightness and maybe some harshness right out of the box and some other ESS chips I'd heard. We'll, it was nice, but a little soft and warm. Even my wife sat down and said "I can't hear any of the details" and she hardly ever says anything about the audio. Now I do have an all tube system and it can be on the soft side but thats why I wanted something with more detail, obviously not harshness, but detail.
Is this other owners first opinions?
Also, I let to run all night, with Spotify running through a Mac mini via a USB cable and the sound is very static barley able to discern the song though the static. It reads 192 on the display which I know can't be correct. Any ideas as to why Spotify would be static? When I run the sound though the internal speakers of the Mac Mini it sounds fine.
Thanks,
John

[mies]

Also, I let to run all night, with Spotify running through a Mac mini via a USB cable and the sound is very static barley able to discern the song though the static. It reads 192 on the display which I know can't be correct. Any ideas as to why Spotify would be static? When I run the sound though the internal speakers of the Mac Mini it sounds fine.
Thanks,
John

I had a similar issue on my mac book pro when I first used it with the x20 Pro.  I solved the issue by creating a new audio device in the Audio MIDI setup:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202968

Make sure the usb cord in connected to your mac and to the DAC, then Click on the + sign down at the bottom left and select 'Create Aggregate Device'.  On the right hand side after the new device is added, make sure the only use selected is the 'xCore USB Audio 2.0 Output'. 

This removed the static I was hearing and made for a clean signal. 
 

[niner]

I had a similar issue on my mac book pro when I first used it with the x20 Pro.  I solved the issue by creating a new audio device in the Audio MIDI setup:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202968

Make sure the usb cord in connected to your mac and to the DAC, then Click on the + sign down at the bottom left and select 'Create Aggregate Device'.  On the right hand side after the new device is added, make sure the only use selected is the 'xCore USB Audio 2.0 Output'. 

This removed the static I was hearing and made for a clean signal. 

Thanks Mies,
It worked like a charm. I'm getting non static Spotify now. Still running in the Gustard Pro. Sounding more sharp and detailed, not nessisarily in a good way. But, currently I am running streamed Spotify, so not exactly the best source.
Thanks again.

[mies]

Thanks Mies,
It worked like a charm. I'm getting non static Spotify now. Still running in the Gustard Pro. Sounding more sharp and detailed, not nessisarily in a good way. But, currently I am running streamed Spotify, so not exactly the best source.
Thanks again.

Glad it worked.  I'm still burning in my Gustard x20 Pro as well.  I did notice that the sound was a bit sharp out of the box, but it seams to be settling in well.  I'm still waiting on delivery of my LPS-1 to power the microrendu, so at the moment I'm just feeding it via a cheap USB cable from my iMac.

The source will make a big difference.  I've been really impressed with the sound so far using Roon via HQ Player, up-sampling my 16 and 24 bit flac files as well as Tidal content to DSD256.  I'm still playing with the filters to find the best balance on my system, but so far I've found the sound to be detailed, but very engaging and musical.  Previously I was using an Aries Mini as streamer and DAC so this is a significant upgrade in sound quality.