Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.

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Wayner

Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« on: 18 Aug 2018, 07:35 pm »
Found these on the E for next to nothing. One speaker was in water, so its base was toast. I thought it would be a nice project. I have the Cavalier 2000s, that I enjoy very much. Here are a few shots of the before and after.







The after photos (finished yesterday).







They feature a 10" down firing woofer, a 4" front firing midrang and a 3" tweeter. They sound very ARish. They sold for $100ea. back in 1972. Mine came with the marble tops (a ten dollar adder at the time).

JakeJ

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #1 on: 19 Aug 2018, 03:13 am »
Very cool, Wayner!  Never even heard of this model.  I like how you re-manufactured the base to be more minimal and probably more efficient.  When I first spied that first photo I thought it had some special flat drivers but those are just nice guards over them.

Keep up the good work!

Wayner

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #2 on: 19 Aug 2018, 11:35 am »
Yes Jake, they are just paper drivers:







I forgot to take a picture of the tweeter. It looks much like the tweeter from an AR-4x.

I watched a little TV last night with them in my AV system (watched the Twins, Ghost Adventures) and there was some dynamic slam from these. Often I am surprised at what $200 would buy for speakers back in 1972.


dB Cooper

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #3 on: 19 Aug 2018, 07:35 pm »
Looks like the water stopped just in time. The cabs look fine.

I remember Empire but don't think I ever heard any of their products. I remember they had a phono cart which they claimed tracked at 0.1g.

I seem to remember they also made an 'omni' speaker which resembled this but had an upward firing driver/ deflector type setup.

Wayner

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #4 on: 19 Aug 2018, 09:43 pm »
These are the same folks that made the Empire turntables and Empire cartridges. I fairly familiar with the lineup, but don't recall and speaker with upward firing drivers.

My JBL S109 Aquarius IV speakers have a single 8" fullrange fired into an omni-directional horn....

dB Cooper

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #5 on: 19 Aug 2018, 11:24 pm »
I could be wrong. It has happened before. I definitely remember the 0.1 gram tracking force claim though. Always thought that was BS and it made me suspect of the brand. Like I said, though, I can't recall ever hearing any of their stuff so I can't really have an opinion.

The downward facing woofer would presumably be considered a 'sub' in today's jargon. Wonder what frequency it crosses at. Is there a port somewhere or is this an example of the nearly lost art of 'acoustic suspension'?

fredgarvin

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Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #6 on: 20 Aug 2018, 12:11 am »
Those turned out really nice. They look like they could be a cool patio/deck speaker.

Wayner

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #7 on: 20 Aug 2018, 06:52 pm »
I could be wrong. It has happened before. I definitely remember the 0.1 gram tracking force claim though. Always thought that was BS and it made me suspect of the brand. Like I said, though, I can't recall ever hearing any of their stuff so I can't really have an opinion.

The downward facing woofer would presumably be considered a 'sub' in today's jargon. Wonder what frequency it crosses at. Is there a port somewhere or is this an example of the nearly lost art of 'acoustic suspension'?

There are 3 1" holes in the back, so it is ported.

Wayner

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #8 on: 20 Aug 2018, 07:27 pm »
I could be wrong. It has happened before. I definitely remember the 0.1 gram tracking force claim though. Always thought that was BS and it made me suspect of the brand. Like I said, though, I can't recall ever hearing any of their stuff so I can't really have an opinion.

The downward facing woofer would presumably be considered a 'sub' in today's jargon. Wonder what frequency it crosses at. Is there a port somewhere or is this an example of the nearly lost art of 'acoustic suspension'?

My Allied catalog from 1969 has several models of Empire cartridges including the famous 888 series, the 999VE series and the 808 series. None of them report a .1 tracking capability. Looks like most are in the .75 to 1 gram range. I suspect your .1 gram tracking was a misprint.

JakeJ

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #9 on: 20 Aug 2018, 07:49 pm »
Does anyone know which cartridge achieved the lowest attainable/usable tracking force and what those numbers are?  Just skimming the first few pages of Vinyl Engine I saw a low of 0.5 g for some models of ADC carts.  That was the low end of a range that topped out at 1.5 g so I suspect proper tracking was achieved at ~1.0 g, depending on arm/table combo.

It would be interesting to know the lowest.

Oops...sorry for the OT post!

Wayner

Re: Empire Grenadier 6000s now in the house.
« Reply #10 on: 20 Aug 2018, 09:18 pm »
Does anyone know which cartridge achieved the lowest attainable/usable tracking force and what those numbers are?  Just skimming the first few pages of Vinyl Engine I saw a low of 0.5 g for some models of ADC carts.  That was the low end of a range that topped out at 1.5 g so I suspect proper tracking was achieved at ~1.0 g, depending on arm/table combo.

It would be interesting to know the lowest.

Oops...sorry for the OT post!

No problem, its all related to music reproduction! Here is my rule for VTF. MIddle of the road + a little bit more. As an example, an AT cartridges range is 1.00 grams to 1.8 grams. I plunk it at 1.6, or .2 more then their middle of the road. Its OK to track heavier then lighter. Record damage is actually caused by poor tracking and one of the causes it insufficient VTF.