empire 208

beat · « **on:** 1 Mar 2003, 09:52 pm »

Hello all,
A guy here in town has an empire 208 for sale for 200 bucks. The tone arm is a bit weird, it is suspended by a pin and pools of mercury. Should I jump on it? It looks very solid and the motor spins well.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Mar 2003, 10:51 pm »

Read the following???
http://www.atma-sphere.com/208.htm
Atma-sphere describes their rebuild of an Empire and, in so doing, points out the weaknesses of the original design (i.e. resonances). Check out Rod M of Audio Asylum--isn't he using an Empire???

Could the mercury tonearm be a Keith Monks?????
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vinyl&n=127677&highlight=Keith+Monks&r=&session=

A Keith Monks apparently sold for $600--
http://www.gabrieltan.addr.com/Analog%20archiv.htm
(scroll down a ways)

TY

beat · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Mar 2003, 01:49 pm »

thanks for those links,
I have actually seen the one on the atmasphere site but did not put two and two together. The other link shows that it is a monks arm. Looks like it isnt complete though. I'll keep you posted on what happens
thanks, beat

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Mar 2003, 03:26 pm »

Beat,
just for clarification--the site that sold the Keith Monks arm was in Singapore and the 600 was Singapore dollars, which the site suggests dividing by 1.75 to get value in US $$. Still, even if the arm might sell for $300 US, getting the whole package for $200 might be worthwhile.

TY

BTW, I found this interesting post re: Monks arm
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Keith+Monks+group:rec.audio.high-end&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=38j53c%24kcc%40tolstoy.lerc.nasa.gov&rnum=6
He discusses the earlier A&D arm on which the KMAL arm is based.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Mar 2003, 10:06 pm »

beat,
don't know if you followed your TT on eBay, but Atma-sphere bought it!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3010964472&category=3283

beat · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Mar 2003, 02:56 am »

yeah tonto, I saw that..oh well. It would have been a fun toy but I wonder what they have planned for it...?

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Mar 2003, 06:50 am »

They must have liked how the other modded TT came out--bet they'll do the same with "your" table.

beat · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Mar 2003, 05:52 am »

yep, that would be my guess also.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Apr 2003, 03:02 am »

beat,
another Empire 208 TT is now on rec.audio.marketplace but the asking price is $295 (seems too high to me).

beat · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Apr 2003, 08:53 pm »

Yeah T,
that sounds high unless it has a nice arm or something. I saw a different model empire on ebay a while ago with an SME (Ithink it was) that was in real good shape. looked like a keeper. I think I'm done shopping around though as I have most of the parts to start my own from scratch. I have lots of stone, acrylic, bearing, power supply, a real nice potentiometer, a big quiet motor from an old reel to reel, carbon fiber for the tonearm. Pretty much all I need is to fab the pivot for the tonearm..wont be hard as I have a closet full of NOS watch parts and lots of jewelry equipment. (Jewelry is my part time job)
I'll have to post pics of my progress,
thanks tonto!

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Apr 2003, 09:48 pm »

Check out page 3 on this link "Weird tonearms"
http://www.visi.com/~asm/asm_sept_01_1.PDF

mamsterla · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Apr 2003, 10:43 pm »

Wow. those are pretty cool. I wonder if he used the same pivot/bearing assembly for these arms.

One of these days, I will build a Laadergard (sp.) air bearing linear tracker. Those seem to be pretty neat and straightforward.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Apr 2003, 10:51 pm »

Quote from: mamsterla

Wow. those are pretty cool. I wonder if he used the same pivot/bearing assembly for these arms.

One of these days, I will build a Laadergard (sp.) air bearing linear tracker. Those seem to be pretty neat and straightforward.

The guy in the link was using a Maplenoll table; I don't know if this was the exact model or not, but I think it's an air bearing as well.

beat · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Apr 2003, 09:56 pm »

that is so cool,
Now I know I'm not alone on my thoughts. MY first idea was to try some ebony wood, My next thought on wood was pernambuco (used for cello bows) It would be great to find out how they performed and what the differences were. BTW, How exactly does an air bearing work?

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Apr 2003, 11:08 pm »

Quote from: beat

that is so cool,
Now I know I'm not alone on my thoughts. MY first idea was to try some ebony wood, My next thought on wood was pernambuco (used for cello bows) It would be great to find out how they performed and what the differences were. BTW, How exactly does an air bearing work?

So now that you've got some fancy, schmantzy phono stage, you're too good for Burger King straws for a tonearm????

As to the finer points of air-bearing arms, I'll plead ignorance. You might check out a thread on Audio Asylum (Vinyl) that starts off with the Infinity TT that's being offered on Agon.

beat · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Apr 2003, 12:46 am »

you crack me up, Tonto. I'll look into that link

beat · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Apr 2003, 09:51 pm »

Here's a link to that empire I mentioned..it's in a lot better shape than the 208 that started this thread.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=3018619303&rd=1

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Apr 2003, 12:00 pm »

Quote from: beat

Here's a link to that empire I mentioned..it's in a lot better shape than the 208 that started this thread.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=3018619303&rd=1

beat,
be forewarned that this is a completely uninformed opinion, but that's never kept me from posting before.

I wonder if the Empire 598 was designed for appearance as much (or more??) than sonics?? It certainly is a gorgeous looking table with all that wood. Perhaps the 208 was the audiophile model--stripped down for sheer performance??

Of course, these are just guesses based on looks. It may be that the 598 stomps the 208 sonically (but one would wonder why Atma-sphere chose the 208 over the 598).

beat · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 12:29 am »

Very good point my friend...I wonder???