[Frankie Sugo]

Hello, new member here

I’d like to ask this community their advice and experience with audio systems in a lounge/nightclub setting. I’m in the early planning phases.   I’ve decided to go all Bryston electronics for their workhorse performance, clarity and most importantly reliability. Speakers and speaker types are undecided.  The atmosphere at the club will be mostly more intimate with lounge seating and a bar area. The goal is to offer beautiful sounding music, so I’m not after the typical PA speakers.  I have mixed thoughts of whether to go with ceiling mounters or Bookshelf or have Floorstanders.  I love the idea of showcasing the new Bryston T10 Floorstanders. I worry about having them damaged though by curious crowds. Venue size is on the small side, about 2500 sf, but that may change. Are the new Bryston speakers suitable for a public venue, where hopefully there will be large crowds. There are dealers that provide commercial systems but I’d like to hear thoughts from this Bryston neighbourhood.

[James Tanner]

Hi Frankie - we supply chicken wire around the speakers for nightclub applications !

[Frankie Sugo]

Will the chicken wire affect the dispersion? Can I get it in red…with electricity?

[James Tanner]

 

[Mag]

   I have the Model T passives used in an unconventional setup where I use reflections off the wall to create a wide soundstage that seems to project off the front wall. I believe though not proven could be scaled up to a room such as yours.
  The idea is to take Model T's or now the bigger versions and place them about 15 to 20 feet apart. The unconventional thing is you will then aim these speakers at reflective panels placed near the speakers. The sound then reflects off these panels to the front wall and you will get a wide beautiful soundstage coming off the wall, given you a wide sweetspot. These reflective panels just by moving the speaker toe-in a inch or two, you can move the imaging left or right to get it centered.
  Like I said my theory hasn't been tested or proven to work in a larger room, but I believe in would work. Oh, and I find my Model T's to be room friendly. Like I have all kinds of crap in the room yet it doesn't seem to interfere with the soundstage.

[VinceT]

Hard to say without seeing the layout

For good coverage I would hang front ported or sealed book shelf speakers in the corners, use an AVR/pre in multi-stereo mode and make sure left and right channels remain separated in the mix on each side of the room. You could go vintage speakers and the listening bar vibe:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/listening-bars-music-us-vinyl-los-angeles-tokyo-japan-music-nightlife-a8952096.html

[Frankie Sugo]

Hard to say without seeing the layout

For good coverage I would hang front ported or sealed book shelf speakers in the corners, use an AVR/pre in multi-stereo mode and make sure left and right channels remain separated in the mix on each side of the room. You could go vintage speakers and the listening bar vibe:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/listening-bars-music-us-vinyl-los-angeles-tokyo-japan-music-nightlife-a8952096.html

Thanks for the article; inspiring. I love the look of that vintage mixer.

[Frankie Sugo]

   I have the Model T passives used in an unconventional setup where I use reflections off the wall to create a wide soundstage that seems to project off the front wall. I believe though not proven could be scaled up to a room such as yours.
  The idea is to take Model T's or now the bigger versions and place them about 15 to 20 feet apart. The unconventional thing is you will then aim these speakers at reflective panels placed near the speakers. The sound then reflects off these panels to the front wall and you will get a wide beautiful soundstage coming off the wall, given you a wide sweetspot. These reflective panels just by moving the speaker toe-in a inch or two, you can move the imaging left or right to get it centered.
  Like I said my theory hasn't been tested or proven to work in a larger room, but I believe in would work. Oh, and I find my Model T's to be room friendly. Like I have all kinds of crap in the room yet it doesn't seem to interfere with the soundstage.

Does it work if you point the speakers directly to the front wall, on an angle, without the reflectors?   Maybe I’ll try it with the home system.

[Mag]

Does it work if you point the speakers directly to the front wall, on an angle, without the reflectors?   Maybe I’ll try it with the home system.

Never tried that. I got the idea from watching a jet airplane land at our local airport. As I watched the jet approach I could not hear it, as it got closer I could hear the sound reflect off the concrete building behind me, which was crystal clear. So I could not hear the direct soundwave but I could hear the reflected soundwave. This is when I was contemplating whether or not the Model T's would work in my room, and it worked. Do not know if this would work as well with other speaker designs, it works with Bryston Model T because of the design an close tolerances.

[charmerci]

What kind of sound level do you want the system to emit and for how long? That's a big space. Amps can shut down and speaker voice coils can heat up and do damage.

[Russr]

A bit more detail would be good.  Overall area, how many "zones".... would the "zones" be physically divided in some way or simply be different areas within the same space?  Are you looking for good stereo rendering, or some form of multi-channel?

In a previous lifetime, a long, long time ago, before DSP was quite so advanced and available, we used to sound-up gyms, studios, etc.  A lot of "home stereo" concepts do not necessarily "travel" well into commercial spaces.  I'd definitely consult with someone who works in these spaces on a regular basis.  My guess is that spatial organization, wall, floor and ceiling/roof treatments are going to factor in way more than equipment selection (apologies to all concerned!).  Consideration in that regard are: Do you have a bar area, a restaurant, are they all open plan, or (once again), physically separated from "listening areas".

There was a documentary on TV recently covering noise/sound management in restaurants... not sure if it was done by these guys, but a quick search came up with this group:
https://qsrautomations.com/blog/restaurant-technology/restaurant-sound-design/

Interesting challenge... keep us posted on progress!

Cheers

Russ

[Frankie Sugo]

What kind of sound level do you want the system to emit and for how long? That's a big space. Amps can shut down and speaker voice coils can heat up and do damage.

Not loud. Conversation levels. Average 70 db.  About 8 hours

[Frankie Sugo]

A bit more detail would be good.  Overall area, how many "zones".... would the "zones" be physically divided in some way or simply be different areas within the same space?  Are you looking for good stereo rendering, or some form of multi-channel?

In a previous lifetime, a long, long time ago, before DSP was quite so advanced and available, we used to sound-up gyms, studios, etc.  A lot of "home stereo" concepts do not necessarily "travel" well into commercial spaces.  I'd definitely consult with someone who works in these spaces on a regular basis.  My guess is that spatial organization, wall, floor and ceiling/roof treatments are going to factor in way more than equipment selection (apologies to all concerned!).  Consideration in that regard are: Do you have a bar area, a restaurant, are they all open plan, or (once again), physically separated from "listening areas".

There was a documentary on TV recently covering noise/sound management in restaurants... not sure if it was done by these guys, but a quick search came up with this group:
https://qsrautomations.com/blog/restaurant-technology/restaurant-sound-design/

Interesting challenge... keep us posted on progress!

Cheers

Russ

Important points. The need to shout across the dinner table is a common experience. Definitely will take room sound design seriously. 

[sfraser]

Klipsch Jubilee's (or clones) may fit the bill. They make a visual statement , and while i have not heard them myself, apparently they sound pretty good as well.  Easy to drive, and likely hard to damage. What area/country are looking at setting up this venue?

Best of luck!

Scott

[gbaby]

Klipsch Jubilee's (or clones) may fit the bill. They make a visual statement , and while i have not heard them myself, apparently they sound pretty good as well.  Easy to drive, and likely hard to damage. What area/country are looking at setting up this venue?

Best of luck!

Scott

Yes sir. If you get you some Klipsch Jubilees, Cornwalls, or Heresy, you may be able to drive them with just a 2.5b SST2. This brand of speakers are very efficient and some play 105db @1 meter with a 1 watt input.  Better yet, if you are in the States, call Bob Phelps at Custom Lights and Sound (CLS) in Durham, NC and they will build you club speakers.

[Frankie Sugo]

Klipsch Jubilee's (or clones) may fit the bill. They make a visual statement , and while i have not heard them myself, apparently they sound pretty good as well.  Easy to drive, and likely hard to damage. What area/country are looking at setting up this venue?

Best of luck!

Scott

Yes, the Jubilee’s would be a dream. Looking to setup in Toronto or Vaughan.

[Frankie Sugo]

Has anyone listened to high efficiency speakers with Bryston?  I love the idea of horns but fear they won’t make a good match. If I fall in love with the sound of something like Klipsch Jubilee I may consider going the tube route. But then that decision would go against my criteria of rock solid reliability and service.

[VinceT]

I would go solid state/digital all the way in a commercial system. Again depends on the set up and layout..capacity of the venue and your overall goals.

[sfraser]

In my home bar/Home theater  the L/R channels are modified mid 1980's Lascala's . They have Crite's crossovers/CR125 tweeters and upgraded mid drivers. I have used a Bryston 3B for many years with the Lascala's and I am quite happy with the combination.

if your project moves forward , please let us know. I would very much like to visit.

Scott

[Armaegis]

I worry about having them damaged though by curious crowds. Venue size is on the small side, about 2500 sf, but that may change. Are the new Bryston speakers suitable for a public venue, where hopefully there will be large crowds. There are dealers that provide commercial systems but I’d like to hear thoughts from this Bryston neighbourhood.

That is a very large space to try and push hifi speakers. Honestly, stick with the pro PA cabinets and get big subs while you're at it. As a guy who's set up sound for a couple different venues like dance studios, yoga studios, and restaurants/lounges/etc, the equipment is going to get beat up, drinks spilled on, knocked onto the floor, etc. You need stuff that can take a beating and get loud/project the length of the room. If you're gonna have a full club, all those bodies absorbs a lot of sound. You need to raise the speakers high enough so it will reach the back of the room unless you're doing a distributed speaker thing around the perimeter (forget about time coherence in that case, it simply isn't possible). If you're gonna host live music/rent out for events or parties/etc, then you'll definitely need subs that can shake the building a moderate amount. Further to the hosting/live music thing, have you considered adding a large mixer? stage monitors? for that matter do you have a stage planned? Do you have the space to put in line arrays? that would help with the projection to the back of the room.

I keep saying the word "loud", but that can be a bit of a misnomer. Think of it in terms of energy. To fill the space with sound you need to fill it with energy. The bigger the space, the more energy you need. "Loudness" is simply a byproduct of that energy. You also have to consider that if you want the sound to be heard at the back, it is going to necessarily be much louder up front near the speakers. This is why in typical large venues they are high ceiling with the speaker hung up high, so then the distance to the front and back of the room aren't that different. And if you look at vertical line arrays that make that funny "J" shape, the bottom speakers projecting down are actually softer than the top ones projecting to the rear.

Anyhow, that's a dump of more questions than answers.