$10,000 Recommendations ??????????

dsmith5740 · « **on:** 10 Apr 2007, 02:19 am »

I'm looking for some informed recommendations from the group regarding my purchase of a new/used HT set up for my TV room. Basically, it's a pretty wide & shallow room layout - so a wide sound stage image is a must for me. The room configuration is not conducive to the type of set up where the listener has to be dead center to get 'the full effect'.

Because of this reason, I've been pondering using Odyssey amps with nOrh 9.0's for front 3 speakers and 4.1's for rears. Again, my inexperience showing through, but I understand the nOrh's allegedly have a pretty wide dispersion and the wide sound stage presence of the Odyssey's are legendary. I've also considered M&K's too.

Having said all of that......I'm looking to be in the $10,000 range for amplification, pre-amp (processing), speakers, DVD transporter, power conditioners and cables. I'm not married to any particular equipment, so any/all suggestions are welcome. The above mentioned set up is not locked in stone. Again, my main desire is nice, clean sound reproduction with 95% use for Home Theater.5.1 or 7.2...it doesn't really matter to me.

I mention power conditioners because I'm suspicious of the quality and stability of my power into my TV room. Also seem to have a grounding issue because I've forever dealt with this annoying vertical transparent line that rolls across my screen - most noticeably seen on black backgrounds.

Also, another consideration, I have 4 teenagers, so fine, delicate equipment probably isn't prudent for me at this stage in my life (until they all move out that is).

Having said all that.....please help me spend my money wisely.

secori · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 10:23 am »

How about 11k for the speakers and $2k for receiver & DVD?
If that's workable I have recently heard something better than I've ever heard before - and speakers that are brand new- just coming to market.

bpape · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 10:32 am »

Best speakers I've heard that would fit your bill would be the Ronin's. If Paul's new Sentinels throw the same huge soundstage, I think you have a winner. When we auditioned them, we could literally sit outside the left speaker and still get a decent left to right soundstage presentation.

Scott F. has a set of the Sentinels right now for review. Hope to be able to listen to them in the next week or 2.

Bryan

dsmith5740 · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 03:07 pm »

Sorry Secori......I can't see $11k for "new speakers just coming out on the market".

Nor can I pop all my $$$ on speakers alone. As I said, I'm looking for speakers, processing, amplification, power and DVD.

Cacophonix · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 03:22 pm »

$10k territory is quite competitive in my book. There are a whole bunch of options that you can consider.
But first, how big is ur room? Do you want to buy new equipment or go the used route?

sts9fan · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 03:36 pm »

I find it hysterical that someone asked for recs with a very nice budget and the first person to respond can't even stay with budget..

jqp · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 04:01 pm »

I do have experience with nOrh 9.0s as the 2 mains and the center...they sound great and look great also if you like them.

woodsyi · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 04:06 pm »

If 95% of it is for movies, I don't see why you would need to spend that much. 5K will probably do the job, but I am not a big HT person. I just use midfi stuff for HT -- Outlaw electronics and Aperion/Polk speakers -- and I get clear dialogs and visceral LF. I would use the other 5k on a good visual display.

jqp · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 06:02 pm »

Here is what I have:

3 nOrh marble 9.0s - 2 MAINS and a CENTER (my other 2 9.0s are in my bedroom)
2 nOrh Teak Prism 3.0s for surrounds - these are adequate but you would be better with 4.0s of course

nOrh Multiamps are driving the 2 MAINS in Active Biamp mode 2x100 for each MAIN (each driver gets 100)
Le Amps/ MB-100s are driving the CENTER and SURROUNDS

nOrh ACA is my Preamp for stereo and also does A/V passthrough to the mains for the HT

Outlaw 950 preamp/processor, for the HT, sends MAINS signal through the nOrh ACA, Center and surrounds signals go to MB-100 amps

audio connections to the Outlaw 950:

Oppo 971H for DVD via optical digital

Sony DVD-Recorder via optical digital

XBox 360 via optical digital

My display is a Sony WEGA KV-40XBR800 - a 40" CRT (300lbs). It has 1 DVI (like HDMI without the audio), 2 Component and various other svhs and composite inputs

video connections to the Sony are:

Oppo 971H via DVI (HDMI) (720p)

Sony DVD-Recorder via Component (480p? need to check)

XBox 360 via Component (720p)

Analog cable - looks suprisingly good on the Sony due to 4x upsampling?

Eventually I will get subs, but the nOrhs can give you better bass than many 'consumer' HT subs anyway.

bpape · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 06:05 pm »

If it's purely for HT and music is not a consideration, then I'd agree with the Outlaw and maybe Ascends. I have several customers who had Rick Craig do some custom 7.0 stuff that turned out really nice - especially for the money.

Bryan

dsmith5740 · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 01:37 pm »

Thanks everyone for the responses thusfar. I'll try to answer questions/comments:

1) My TV room is 16w x 18d. But bookcases and furniture placement dictate that my large sectional sofa has to be 11.5 ft back from the wall, so the workable footprint is more like 16w x 11.5d. I also have 11ft cathedral ceilings.

2) The Ronins sound very interesting, however I've read posts from Paul that they might not be best suited for HT in a room my size. I'll try to copy him on this topic to get his thoughts.

3) I'm open minded when it comes to new vs. used. In fact, it might make sense to get used amps anyway (burn in). I would probably want to hear the items 1st before purchase though.

4) (woodsyl) (jqp) As for processing, I've heard a lot of good about the Outlaw equipment. Sounds like big bang for the bucks. Any negative feedback out there on Outlaw?

5) (jqp) The nOrh's have long enjoyed good support thru various blogs, but I worry about having those beasts on stands in my TV room. Remember the teenagers I mentioned..........just a little worried about someone bumping into the nOrh and knocking it over.

6) (woodsyl) I'll check out the Aperion/Polk speakers on your recommendation. How is the width of their soundstage image? Remember. I need a pretty wide image since the wide couch is so close.

7) (jqp) How do you like those nOrh amps? I haven't heard much good or bad about them really. But, I've heard many raves about the Odyssey amps and their wide sound stage imaging.

No comments on the Odyssey amps?

sts9fan · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 01:41 pm »

Your not going to read too much bad about Outlaw for HT

dsmith5740 · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 01:50 pm »

Quote from: sts9fan on 11 Apr 2007, 01:41 pm

Your not going to read too much bad about Outlaw for HT

That's encouraging. Any thoughts on the speakers and amps?

bpape · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 02:02 pm »

Well, the Ronins are going to probably shoot your budget - that's why I said something about the Sentinels.

IMO, the Odyssey would be a step up from the Outlaw and drive the #$)*(&% out of the Sentinels. The Outlaw processor is a great bang for the buck HT piece.

Bryan

sts9fan · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 02:07 pm »

well Outlaw could provide pre pro and amps. They have a beastly 200watt/7ch amp or they have the stackable 200 watt monoblocks. For speakers I would look at Paradigm Studio series. They don't get a ton of love here but I had the Studio 60 v3s and loved them. Great performers for a good price with good looks to boot. For HT they would kick ass. You could get a 5.1 setup for under 5k. Add 3k for the Outlaw gear and you have plenty of room for power conditioning and cables and under your budget. Also if you go to a Paradigm dealer make sure they give you a discount. 10% off is not unusual for these speakers.

gooberdude · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 07:34 pm »

A home theatre set-up with 4 Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris OB drivers would be cool. I'm still getting used to mine, but they easily throw a gigantic soundstage that's amazing for watching movies...people can clearly be heard walking around, when cabs pass by on the street (in the movie) it sounds real. The dimensionality of these drivers is kick-ass.

No need for a center channel and integrating subs would be easy. Using these with a multi-channel HT receiver should be a cinch too, they only need 20 watts or so to reach high SPL's.

Would $700 for drivers & plywood work?? aa You'd have $ left over to buy some powered REL subs too.

I had a chance to demo the Ronins 2 weeks ago for about 4 hours at a friends house, they are awesome. It was this experience which convinced me to buy the SI's... OB in a HT would be a very good match in my 'still wet behind the OB ears' opinion.

matt

PaulHilgeman · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 07:47 pm »

Hey Guys,

Brian - Thanks for the recommendation, let us know your thoughts when you get to hear the Sentinel.

Dsmith5740 - As to your room size, it would probably be in the workable region for either speaker. From your description, if the speakers faces are placed 3.5 feet from the wall, that means we are at 8 feet from the listener to the plane formed by the speakers, and greater than 9 feet from the listener to the speaker, perfectly acceptable for either speaker. The Ronin might like to be out a bit more, but even so, we are still in a comfortable operating area. for placement within your room and furniture.

I have heard the Ronins powered by both the Outlaw 7125 and the 7700, and both are very good amplifiers, and if you are going to go that route, the 990 and 970 are definitely better than most HT Processors from the preamplifier perspective. I have also heard them powered by the Odyssey amplifier and while I wasn't as familiar with the rest of the system, it certainly made great music!!!

The benefits that can be had by using a speaker like the Ronin or the Sentinel in an HT system are the huge reduction of reflected sound waves off of your equipment between the speakers. Both speakers radiate very little 90 degrees off-axis so placing TV's or equipment at moderate heights between the speakers usually turns out pretty nicely without the collapse or congestion that occurs with more conventional speakers.

As a matter of fact, the Ronins throw such a good center image even when seated off-axis that I personally do not run a center channel in my home theater and recommend at least starting like this. In my room, the couch is a few feet farther back, and the speakers are separated by about 10 feet, and all three seating positions on the couch and even outside of the couch there is very good center imaging. I also hate having a speaker above or below the TV, even with micro-perf projection screens and speakers located behind the screen, it has just never been that convincing to me.

That said, if it suited your tastes, I would happily do a custom center channel for you.

As to blowing your budget, the speakers are always where I would put my money, especially in this overall price category, and with your goals.

Have a great day, and hopefully not too snowy if you are in the upper midwest.
Paul

jqp · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 08:39 pm »

From what I have heard the Odysseys are always great, but might be overkill if you are not going to do any 2-channel with the HT. Maybe there are HT-type amps I am not aware of.

I would go with the IRD MB-100s over the Outlaw amps. They are $269 each, Curt may give you a better price for 5?

Keep in mind you can set the L & R Marble 9.0s on end tables, you don't need to use normal stands. They might have a nice WAF that way also. I have my 9.0 Center on one of those wall mounted shelving systems mounted behind the TV, that supports 1000 lbs.

randytsuch · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 12:56 am »

Hi
I am looking to upgrade my HT setup right now, so I thought I would add what I have learned so far, even though my budget is way below yours.

I am getting a new Sony 52" LCD pretty soon, and am thinking about upgrading my HT sound system when I do this.

I have an about 5 year old Sony processor, which was good in it's time, but is obviously not the latest technology anymore.

The drawback with Outlaw is that it does not support HDMI. If you want to future proof your purchase, I would consider buying something that supports HDMI audio, and can do 7.1 uncompressed HDMI PCM. Uncompressed is supposed to sound better than the normal 5.1 DTS sound tracks, but I have not heard it myself. Of couse, you would also need a source that supports it.
(I would consider a Sony PS3 for a source, they are supposed to be very good blu ray players)
There is a long thread over at AVSforum here about future proof receivers,
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738511
but you can learn a lot by just reading the first post in it.
He calls it "level 6" if it supports 7.1 uncompressed HDMI PCM.

If you were going to listen to more music on this setup, then I would lean towards the Outlaw more, but if this is mostly for movies, I would go for something that supports HDMI audio. My HT setup is only for movies, and that is what I plan to do.

I am considering a Denon receiver right now, but have not decided for sure.

And if it was me, I would get a BPT for a power conditioner, good bang for the buck. They show up an audiogon sometimes.

Good luck
Randy

bpape · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 01:31 am »

That's why I'd say Outlaw right now - HDMI 1.3 is still up in the air no matter what the ad blurbs say. It will be end of the year at the earliest before anything is really finalized. That's why I'd not spend a ton right now. Plus, IMO, keeping video separate from audio is a big bennie in terms of pure performance.

Bryan