Branching out!

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1ZIP

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Branching out!
« on: 26 Jun 2009, 05:36 pm »
Up until now I've relied upon CD's and my highly modified TU-717 tuner for source material.  But now I think it's time to take advantage of downloads from iTunes, LastFM, Rhapsody etc..  What does your set-up consist of and what would you recommend??

Phil A

Re: Branching out!
« Reply #1 on: 26 Jun 2009, 06:03 pm »
Don't do downloading at the moment.  I am in process of ripping CDs (and some digital copies of movies that came with Blu-Rays) to WMA lossless on a USB hard drive.  I compress to transfer to the Zune player for the car and have a Western Digital media player sitting around (waiting to complete the process) that has audio and video outs so I can have tons of lossless audio available.  The main system backs to the bedroom system and I have coax going to the basement and the bedroom feeds remote locations via a speaker switch so i can listen to stuff all over when I'm done.  I still like discs though.  By the way, how do you like the TU-717?  I don't have a tuner in the main system but can use the rec'r in the bedroom (Marantz SR-63000 if I want to listen to FM.  Not much of a radio listener in recent years but have been considering getting a tuner at some point.  Have bid on a few.

danman

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #2 on: 26 Jun 2009, 06:05 pm »
I have started to look into setting up a computer server lately as it sounds interesting. I may get a dedicated computer and DAC for this. I will experiment first of course to see if it is for me but I admire you guys that have set up your systems this way. It is definately part of the future of audio I believe.

1ZIP

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #3 on: 26 Jun 2009, 06:58 pm »
Phil;

I do like the 717 and even more so since I had RadioxTuners do an Audiophile and an Extreme tune on the thing.  The improvements are remarkable!

James Tanner

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #4 on: 26 Jun 2009, 07:01 pm »
Have 3- setups:

1. MAC PRO Laptop
2. Windows XP Professional - Lynx AES-16 Sound Card
3. Windows XP Server - MAudio 192 Sound Card

james

danman

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #5 on: 26 Jun 2009, 07:02 pm »
I was looking into the MAudio card. How does it sound?

James Tanner

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #6 on: 26 Jun 2009, 07:05 pm »
I was looking into the MAudio card. How does it sound?

Hi Dan,

I think its the best value in sound cards out there. Into the BDA-1 it sounds superb. Only issue I have found is it does not like 176.4 files - plays them at 88.2.  I think it is a conflict with Windows Server.

james

Phil A

Re: Branching out!
« Reply #7 on: 26 Jun 2009, 07:07 pm »
Phil;

I do like the 717 and even more so since I had RadioxTuners do an Audiophile and an Extreme tune on the thing.  The improvements are remarkable!

Thanks for the feedback.  I don't listen to FM more than once or twice a year at this point, mainly in the car, but used to always have a tuner so I've been looking at stuff like stock 717s to get my feet wet.  That's a similar reason why I grabbed the Western Digital (WD) Media Player - http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

It (the WD unit) is cheap (on sale at Best Buy most of the time for $99.99) and will give me a taste of what I can do.  I do have an outboard DAC (Micromega DuoPro) that sits in the basement system and barely gets used and still sounds good.  So far I've loaded about 3,500 songs on it and probably a dozen movies.  If I eventually have the WD unit in the main system it can connect via its digital out and the digital out (of hopefully the SP3) will go into a digital input of my Marantz SR-6300 rec'r in the bedroom on the other side of the wall.  The digital out of the SP-6300 will go into the main system pre/pro.

Stu Pitt

Re: Branching out!
« Reply #8 on: 26 Jun 2009, 09:31 pm »
I'm currently waiting for an Apple TV (refurbished from Apple's web store).  I'll run its digital out to an older Theta DAC until I can afford a BDA-1.

I chose the Apple TV over others because it has a quiet hard drive, thereby eliminating the need for the computer to be on.  Since its not streaming, the concern of drop outs is also eliminated.  In my system it'll basically be an iPod with a digital out.  I passed on the Wadia iTransport due to its poor ergonomics.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Apple TV will do internet radio.  I've been told by a few people with one that all you need to do is copy radio stations into a playlist and they'll play.

If you don't have a TV in your listening room, the Apple TV can be controlled by an iPhone or iPod touch.

Had it not been for the Apple TV, I'd probably have gone with the Sonos or my laptop directly into a USB DAC.

James Tanner

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #9 on: 26 Jun 2009, 09:36 pm »
I'm currently waiting for an Apple TV (refurbished from Apple's web store).  I'll run its digital out to an older Theta DAC until I can afford a BDA-1.

I chose the Apple TV over others because it has a quiet hard drive, thereby eliminating the need for the computer to be on.  Since its not streaming, the concern of drop outs is also eliminated.  In my system it'll basically be an iPod with a digital out.  I passed on the Wadia iTransport due to its poor ergonomics.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Apple TV will do internet radio.  I've been told by a few people with one that all you need to do is copy radio stations into a playlist and they'll play.

If you don't have a TV in your listening room, the Apple TV can be controlled by an iPhone or iPod touch.

Had it not been for the Apple TV, I'd probably have gone with the Sonos or my laptop directly into a USB DAC.

Stu,

What does the Apple TV have as its digital output - optical?

james

Mad Mr H

Re: Branching out!
« Reply #10 on: 26 Jun 2009, 11:00 pm »
Hi,

I used to have a Mark Levinson CD transport and DAC - the 37 and 360 I think.

I also had a Sony 9000ES SACD/CD player.

I wanted to move towards digital stored media as I have 1TB (full) of music on hard drive.

So I sold all the above and bought a Logitech Transporter - This is a DAC and media replay unit in one, it also has abiity to control volume so output direct to amp.

Do I regret the change - No, It put cash back in the bank and allowed me to buy the BRYSTON amps to go 3 way active.

Do I MISS the audio quality - YES, Without doubt I would like both worlds, my active 3 way Byston system AND a high quality CD transport and DAC......


One day I will afford to go back to cd & High quality DAC.


If you want music in every room for ease of play and quality is NOT the priority the digital stored music is he way forward, Quality is Good, often excellent but NOT "high end"

Andy.

Stu Pitt

Re: Branching out!
« Reply #11 on: 27 Jun 2009, 01:00 am »

Stu,

What does the Apple TV have as its digital output - optical?

james

James,

It is optical.  From what I've heard, optical has more jitter than other connections.  Is this true? 

James Tanner

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #12 on: 27 Jun 2009, 01:24 am »

Stu,

What does the Apple TV have as its digital output - optical?

james

James,

It is optical.  From what I've heard, optical has more jitter than other connections.  Is this true?


Hi Stu

I think this jitter thing tends to get exaggerated - my MAC Pro has the optical out and I use it into the BDA-1 on my Quad 2905's and people are amazed at how great it sounds.

james

srb

Re: Branching out!
« Reply #13 on: 27 Jun 2009, 01:37 am »
Hi,

IIf you want music in every room for ease of play and quality is NOT the priority the digital stored music is he way forward, Quality is Good, often excellent but NOT "high end"

Andy.

I disagree.  Music ripped with error correction fed to a good DAC has the potential to be equal or better than the best spinners.

Steve

Stu Pitt

Re: Branching out!
« Reply #14 on: 27 Jun 2009, 02:42 am »
Hi Stu

I think this jitter thing tends to get exaggerated - my MAC Pro has the optical out and I use it into the BDA-1 on my Quad 2905's and people are amazed at how great it sounds.

james

Thanks for the reply James.  I agree that it does perhaps get a bit exaggerated, but so many things in this hobby do IMO.  Everything except how good Bryston gear sounds and your customer service :thumb:

You have an excellent company in every way.  I've called the US service center in VT and your Canadian HQ.  Everyone was very knowledgable and courteous.  Please don't change anything!!!


Andy,

Just about anything connected to a BDA-1 will sound "high end."

Sasha

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #15 on: 27 Jun 2009, 02:56 am »
Hi,

IIf you want music in every room for ease of play and quality is NOT the priority the digital stored music is he way forward, Quality is Good, often excellent but NOT "high end"

Andy.

I disagree.  Music ripped with error correction fed to a good DAC has the potential to be equal or better than the best spinners.

Steve

Ripping is not an issue, jitter is.
There is no computer based transport that can come close to best optical players, let alone best them.
This is my personal experience and experience of many others who did compare at length best optical players to best purposely built PC transport, paying attention to every conceivable detail in effort to minimize jitter out of PC into an external DAC.
No match, period. PC is inherently inferior in many aspects, it would have to be re-engineered significantly to be able to compete, from its noisy PSU, to noisy mobo and bus.



1ZIP

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #16 on: 27 Jun 2009, 06:41 am »
Maybe, at this point, someone could provide a laymen's explanation of "jitter".  If I look at Wikipedia it speaks to several kinds of jitter and after several readings I confess to a migraine coming on.  What I can glean is that jitter affects the spectral density, i.e., frequency content of a signal.  I guess the fundamental question here is how does downloadable music using a high quality DAC(Bryston) compare to that from a CD player(Bryston).  It's beginning to sound like CD has the advantage.

Unless the downloadable music is a least equal to a CD it would seem we have now undone what we have have spent $xx,xxx.xx on our systems to achieve.  Many times I have music playing in the background but I don't use my Bryston set-up to do so.  If I want background music I use one of my restored Marantz receivers which provide a very pleasant sound through my Paradigms, but it is not of a quality that I would accept for critical listening.

It may be, as someone noted, that a PC source has the potential to meet or exceed a CD source, with potential being the operative word. This implies that the equality does not exist at present.  At this point it doesn't seem like spending several thousands of $$$'s to provide a sub CD standard of sound makes much sense.  I guess the one up side here is that I could have access to a very large bank of music at a cost far less than what it would cost via CD's.  The down side being it just doesn't sound as good.

So....how far off base am I on this whole thing....or am I?

khfm865

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #17 on: 27 Jun 2009, 10:30 am »
Dear All,

I am wondering whether you have come across the Linn DS range of sources. I personally run a Majik DS (looking to go for Akurate asap) directly into my 4Bsstsq (it has a digital volume control on board)

The Linn DS products are a hybrid type where you essentially stream packets of information via an ethernet that is easy to set up at home via cat 5/6. You can use a NAS or simply use your pc as the media server. The DS then has a DAC on board for output as phono (unbalanced or balanced as you go up the range). I am not technical enough to understand the advantages of this technology over using USB directly to a DAC. I think one of the advantages might lie in the buffering that the DS does with the PC/NAS. Either way, I have been very pleased with the results.
I have got around the re-wiring situation by using ethernet via mains plugs that incidentally to not degrade the signal quality (to my or anyone on the Linn forums ears)

Anyway - control of all my albums is remotely via my ipod touch with some software that accesses the ethernet remotely via a wireless access point.

Worth considering as an alternative.

Cheers

James Tanner

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #18 on: 27 Jun 2009, 11:21 am »
Hi,

IIf you want music in every room for ease of play and quality is NOT the priority the digital stored music is he way forward, Quality is Good, often excellent but NOT "high end"

Andy.

I disagree.  Music ripped with error correction fed to a good DAC has the potential to be equal or better than the best spinners.

Steve

Ripping is not an issue, jitter is.
There is no computer based transport that can come close to best optical players, let alone best them.
This is my personal experience and experience of many others who did compare at length best optical players to best purposely built PC transport, paying attention to every conceivable detail in effort to minimize jitter out of PC into an external DAC.
No match, period. PC is inherently inferior in many aspects, it would have to be re-engineered significantly to be able to compete, from its noisy PSU, to noisy mobo and bus.

Hi Sasha,

When doing these comparisons what did people think the differences were.  In other words how did the extra jitter (assuming we can assign that as the fault) manifest itself sonically?

James Tanner

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Re: Branching out!
« Reply #19 on: 27 Jun 2009, 11:24 am »
Speaking of 'jitter' is anyone else experiencing severe jitter when typing responses to "Quotes"

james