[JLM]

Wifey and I will be building a house starting this fall that will include a dedicated listening room/office for me.      

I've been spending considerable time designing the house/room, lately using the Cardas website information.  The room will be 15.54 ft wide by 20.29 ft long by 7.75 ft tall and slightly irregular with about 2,000 cu ft.  By using wooden floors; drywall ceiling; and combination of 2 inch foam, drywall, and built-in bookcases I've achieved (on paper) RT60 values of 0.41 - 0.44 for frequencies from 250 to 4,000 Hz.  The Cardas speaker/listener location formulas would have the speakers 5.60 ft from the front wall, 5.62 ft apart, and 5.62 ft each speaker to the listener in an equalateral triangle in a definite nearfield arrangement.

Being a single driver speaker fan, the thought of the nearfield arrangement does not intimidate me nearly as much as it would otherwise.     So I'm debating between the Super 3 or the 3 BPC.  Currently my amp choice would be the Cayin TA-30 (4 wpc SET mode, 35 wpc push-pull) with subwoofer outputs.  Here's the link:  http://2baudio.com/

I listen mostly to classical and jazz, but have been spoiled with deep and very tuneful transmission line stereo bass.  So what suggestions would you make for a powered sub/subs?  Could the subs be used as speaker stands?  Wouldn't the ideal placement be under the Omegas?

Thanks for the input.

[Louis O]

Hi JLM,

Sounds like a great plan. It really great being able to build the room from scratch and doing it right from the beginning. The Cardas golden ratios are very good and I think Steve at Decware has an interesting corner placement idea for the equipment.

As far as subs, I want to put up a page for recommended subs on the site when I return from the show. We will have a Creative sound sub in the room and I will let you know how it works. I think it's based around a Rava SE. The other sub that I really like is the Magellan from VBT, I'm pretty sure that's the name. This sub was very fast and will mate with the Super 3s very well. It's a bit more pricy than the Creative sound unit though.

Thanks and talk to you soon. I will be back on the 13th.

Best Regards,
Louis

[Jim W.]

Anyone know which is more desirable?  How is the quality of the amplifier used in powered subs and what if it's not up to par with your system amplifier?  Also, is more power in your system amplifier required to drive a passive sub?  My guess is yes, but it seems that better sound and seamless integration might be had from a passive sub - don't know - that's why I ask.  I hear the HSU VTF subs are good - actually I read that at the Lowther website, which brings me to my next stupid question for another post...

Thanks,

Jim

[Jim W.]

I guess the HSU TN Series subwoofers are better for music, according to HSU.

[RickRichardson]

I have used an Omega Subwoofer that I got from them to go with my TS1R's in my home office system.  It has a 10" driver, a 450 watt power supply and adjustable crossover.  It can be run using line level or speaker level inputs.  It worked great with my TS1R's, blending very well to add that bass missing in most monitors.  Whether such a sub would work in your large room, I don't know.  

I have the sub for sale, as I am going to full range speakers.  If you are interested, check it out on Audiogon at :  http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrmoni&1078791535

I don't know if Louis is still making these custom subs, but he should have an idea about the applicability to your room.  The quality of the sub is the same high quality as the monitors, great fit and finish.

[JLM]

Jim:

Output from a passive sub cannot be controlled and would require a crossover, thereby turning a two-way speaker into a three-way for instance, in order to have it properly blend with the main speakers.

I had such a setup 20 years ago (the mains I bought, the passive sub I built, but it was designed to go with them).  Bass performance was outstanding, but only in a huge room, it overpowered any residential room.

The amps used for subs only cover a limited range and can be matched to the driver, so their jobs are simplier/easier than full range amps powering unknown loads.

Hsu are not bad, even the VTF-2 is O.K., but it's only a ported 10 inch driver plus amp for $450 (what do you expect?).  SVS may be a better option if you want a tube sub, but they seem to service the HT crowd more.

[Bosh]

I recently built the Vance Dickason Titanic MKIII sub kit from Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com/).

My listening room is on the smaller side, and I'm using the big TS1-R Grandes to begin with, so one could question the need for a sub in this set-up at all.  But I know what I like and I figured I'd like this system even more with a stronger low end.  As usual, I was right

These subs are offered in 10", 12" and 15" versions--all massively engineered Dayton drivers--with the plate amp on the 10" rated at 250w (I believe the 15"s amp is 1000w).  For the reasons detailed above, I went for the 10".

With fairly minimal set-up (with the help of the Cardas/Ayre set up disc and a lot of source material I know well), this unit integrated VERY well with the TS1s.  

And I sure as Hell know what "pressurize the room" means these days!

It's an easy build (no solder, for example), but because it's DIY you're getting a LOT more quality for your money.  The only complaints I've heard about these subs is that the larger cabinets (not the 10") could use more/better internal bracing, which again is a simple thing to do.

These powered sub kits get very good rap on the 'phile message boards.  That's how I found mine and it's not going back for that full refund, no Sir.

Good luck and have fun.

[Louis O]

I heard good things about all the subs mentioned. Here's another choice I had the opportunity of trying at the show.

It's the Creative Sound 10" sub. This sub is a downfiring sealed 10" with a Hypex 200 watt amp. The sub sounded very musical and blended very well with all the speakers. The crossover is a variable 4th order which does a great job integrating with the speakers. It also has a variable bass boost and phase switch. The cabinet is pretty small and finish in Black gloss. I was also very surprised with the price $599. I think it's a very good deal. http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=CLARUSX!0

Thanks,
Louis