Yes I now agree not to use the sub without a crossover.
I read the tech section of te vandersteen website and below are some interesting points discussed.
Also I have contacted a vandy dealer and they have not yet responded but it looks like I will have purchase the xover after the sub arrives.
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Tony (9/06/10): I just bought a used 2W sub. It only came with one crossover at 50K (one of the two is missing). I have a Audio Research D76a amp going into a pair of 2CE speakers. The listening room is a very small bedroom. I listened last night without crossovers and the 2W sounds was very good. I could have use a little more bass but it was good. What crossover do you recomend with my setup?
Answer: HELLO TONY, YOU SHOULD DOWNLOAD THE 2WQ MANUAL AND FOLLOW THE OPTIMIZATION SECTION AS THE 2WQ WORKS LIKE THE 2W. RUNNING THE SUB WITHOUT HIGH-PASS IS A SURE WAY TO DO $240.00 WORTH OF DAMAGE TO THE 2W AMPLIFIER. THE SYSTEM MUST HAVE A PROPERLY CONFIGURED HIGH-PASS FOR PROPER OPERATION.
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Andy (8/08/10): Hi Richard, i would like to buy Vandersteen 2Wq and the external crossover for it. so can you please let me know what is the crossover model number which suitable for this Sub, do you have them in stock, and how much it is? can i use the Sub without the external crossover? Thank you,.
Answer: HELLO ANDY, ALL SALES ARE THROUGH OUR DEALERS. YOU NEED TO READ THE OWNERS MANUAL BEFORE YOU DO DAMAGE TO YOUR SUB. IF YOU HAD READ THE MANUAL YOU WOULD KNOW YOU CAN NOT USE THE SUB WITHOUT CROSSOVER UNLESS YOU WANT TO PAY US FOR SOME REPAIRS.
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Daryl (12/04/09): I've been trying to audition your 2wq sub for some time now but can't find anyplace closer than 5 hours away and I can't make the trip. I have heard the REL T's and is sounds very, very good for music. They seem to be similar in hook up principal but since I can't hear the Vandy, can you tell me how different it is from the REL T1 and what one could expect in comparison. I know that you use a passive high pass and REL does not...a point of confusion for me. I could really use some help.
Answer: HELLO DARYL, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO USE A HIGH-PASS AS IT LOWER-ES DISTORTION IN YOUR AMPLIFIER, IMPROVES IMAGING DRAMATICALLY, LOWERS DISTORTION IN YOUR SPEAKERS (BECAUSE IT REMOVES WOOFER PUMPING BY REMOVING THE FREQUENCIES THE SUB WOOFER IS REPRODUCING) AND ALLOWS YOU TO PLAY LOUDER BECAUSE THE BASS IS NOT WORKING THE MAIN SPEAKERS. A SUB THAT OPERATES IN PARALLEL WILL NEVER BLEND AS WELL BECAUSE THE CROSSOVER BETWEEN THE TWO IS NOT WELL DEFINED. FIVE HOURS IS A LONG DRIVE BUT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF MONEY AND THE POTENTIAL OF NOT OPTIMIZING YOUR SOUND AS MUCH AS A GOOD PROPERLY INSTALLED 2WQ COULD DO.
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Tom(3/03/09): I understand that Vandersteen subwoofers sample the output from the filtered main amplifier and correct for the roll-off that has been introduced by the passive crossover, b.....
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Carlos (2/10/09): Matt over here in wine country. Hello Richard, I am enjoying my 3a sigs so much without the 2wq's hooked up right now I am wondering if I have a problem with the subs or M5's. The bass has more slam and the imaging is better without the subs. I have tried numerous settings on both the crossovers and the subs, which are in the corners. I don't find any testing procedure for the subs on the site, can you help me?
Answer: HELLO MATT, TRY PLACING THE SUBS BEHIND AND SLIGHTLY OUTSIDE THE 3A SIGS. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS UNDER OPTIMIZATION IN THE MANUAL. SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG BECAUSE THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE. ANY PROBLEMS CALL ME 559-582-0324
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Matt (8/29/08): Hello Richard, I have two 2wq's in front with my 3a sig's. I would like to use a third 2wq with my vlr's on the rear channels for HT. Do I use the large speaker setting and no crossovers?
Answer: HELLO MATT, NO!!!!!!!!!THAT WILL DESTROY YOUR 2WQ'S. USE FULL RANGE BUT YOU MUST HAVE THE HIGH PASS INSTALLED AND PROPERLY ADJUSTED.
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Sanjay (3/17/07): I plan a purchase a pair of 2wq subs to augment the Meadowlark Shearwaters I use in my listening/HT setup. Music is my primary concern. My question is, why did you choose not to include a switch able line-level/speaker-level input like some other manufacturers? My past experience is that a properly integrated subwoofer for stereo, fed by speaker-level, sounds very lean for home theater sound. My Outlaw Audio 950 surr processor has the ability to set the subwoofer output level, and adjust the bass boost and cut-off for the front speakers.
Answer: HELLO SANJAY, THE 2WQ IS DESIGNED FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE AUDIO USE AND IS OPTIMIZED FOR THAT. WE DISCOVERED THAT IN ORDER FOR A SUB TO BLEND WITH THE MAIN SPEAKERS SEAMLESSLY THE HIGH PASS AMPLIFIERS CHARACTER HAD TO BE PASS ON AND THE MAIN SPEAKERS AND AMPLIFIER HAD TO BE HIGH PASSED. MOST PROCESSORS HAVE A BASS BOOST CIRCUIT FOR MORE ROBUST HT WORK. A SUB WITHOUT HIGH PASS CAN NEVER CROSSOVER CORRECTLY AND THE MAIN SPEAKERS WOOFERS WILL PUMP USELESSLY USING AMPLIFIER POWER AT FREQUENCIES WHERE THERE IS NO ACOUSTIC OUTPUT.
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Dennis (12/31/06): I'm considering the 2WQ subwoofer. I understand and appreciate the virtues of using two subwoofers, but my budget only allows me to buy one. I'm concerned about localization of the subwoofer using only one, especially with such a shallow filter slope. Is this an issue? Can the crossover be set low enough for this not to be a concern? Also, I have my 2CE Signatures bi-amplified. I know you've said that there aren't many advantages to bi-amping, but I'm already doing it and I'd rather bi-amp than have two idle channels. With this setup, where do I connect the 2WQ? I don't recall the 2CEs having separate high frequency and low frequency connections. Thank you,
Answer: HELLO DENNIS, I WOULD PLACE THE SUB IN ONE OF THE CORNERS FOR BEST RESPONSE IN THE ROOM. THE PROBLEM OF LOCALIZATION YOU MENTION IS ONLY TRUE WHEN USING MINI BOXES FOR MAIN SPEAKERS. WHEN ADDING A SUB PROPERLY (USING FULL RANGE MAIN SPEAKERS) THE MAIN SPEAKERS PROVIDE SIGNIFICANT LOCATION BECAUSE THE SLOPE IS GENTLE. IN THE DEEP BASS MOST RECORDINGS ARE MONO ANYWAY. I WOULD RECOMMEND STEREO SUBS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE NOT BECAUSE OF A LOCATION PROBLEM BUT FOR A MORE LINEAR RESPONSE IN YOUR ROOM. THE 2WQ HAS ITS LOW PASS SET AT 80HZ AND CAN NOT BE CHANGED NOR WOULD YOU WANT TO. WHEN BI-AMPING BOTH CHANNELS NEED TO BE HIGH PASSED TO PREVENT PHASE SHIFT IN THE MID-RANGE. HOOK UP THE 2WQ TO THE CHANEL THAT IS DRIVING THE BASS.
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Luciano (10/31/06): After reading how to use the 2Wq and the article from Audio Perfectionist Journal, I agree that this is the way to go but what if the main speaker is very small i.e. with a low frequency response of around 90 - 95 Hz ? in other words there is no way to change the 80 Hz of the crossover as per 2Wq specs and still getting optimum results ?
Answer: HELLO LUCIANO, 80HZ IS ABOUT THE LIMIT IN MY OPINION. MOVE THE X-OVER HIGHER AND THE BASS WILL GET DIRECTIONAL AND THE TWO WILL NEVER SOUND AS ONE (OUR GOAL). SUCH A SMALL SPEAKER CERTAINLY WILL BENEFIT FROM THE HIGH-PASS AND YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO TRY GOING WITHOUT IT, UNLESS YOU LIKE WATCHING A SMALL WOOFER BEAT IT SELF UP, AND LISTENING TO THE RESULTING DISTORTION.
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David (6/10/06): Six weeks ago I had a pair of 2Wq Subwoofers installed in my listening room in my home. I was aware that a break in period was required, but even after the manual instructions, I was not impressed. I also had ordered a X-2 Fixed Crossover which I am waiting for. I just wanted to report that the sound is NOW awesome!! The deep bass is tight with absolutely no hangover (maybe not correct terminology). It just took a little longer to break them in than the manual indicated. Am told that when the crossover arrives the sound will be improved more. Can't wait. I can strongly recommend your subwoofers. I have owned other brands of subwoofers in the 80's and very early 90's and they were not close to yours in the quality of sound. I know you know all this, but thought you might like to hear again. David Glover The Woodlands, Texas
Answer: HELLO DAVID, ENJOY YOUR MUSIC AND PLEASE POST HERE WHAT YOU HEAR WHEN YOU INSTALL THE X-2'S. BE SURE TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO BREAK IN.
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Stuart (3/22/06): This is just a suggestion from Stuart: In setting up 2w or 2wq subwoofers, the user has to select the proper crossover capacitor to use between the pre-amp and power amp. If one knows the input impedance of the power amp, this can be calculated using c= 1/(2*PI*R*80) where R is the input resistance of the power amp and PI=3.14. Unfortunately, the input resistance of the power amp is often not published, or even if published, the published value is often not accurate. The input resistance of the amp cannot be easily measured (a multi-meter will not work). An an alternative to determining the right capacitor I suggest the following: 1. Wire the subwoofer and main speakers to separate speaker outputs on the amplifier. 2. Download and burn a test tone cd containing an 80Hz test tone ( available from
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm ) 3. Play the cd alternating between the main speakers and subwoofer. 4. If the proper capacitor is chosen (with the sensitivity/db pot in the back of the subwoofer properly set), the main speakers and subwoofer will each have the same loudness. You could use a dB meter to determine loudness, but the ear is really sufficiently accurate.
Answer: HELLO STUART, THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION. THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IN THE SET UP IS GETTING THE 3DB DOWN POINT OF THE CUSTOMERS (MAIN) AMPLIFIER. THIS SUGGESTION IS MORE ACCURATE. TAKE ANY DIGITAL VOLTMETER SET TO AC VOLTS. WITH THE MAIN AMPLIFIER PROPERLY HOOKED UP TO THE MAIN SPEAKERS, VOLT METER ACROSS THE BLACK AND RED OUTPUT TERMINALS. PLAY A TEST DISK WITH TEST TONE AT 1000HZ ADJUST THE PREAMP VOLUME FOR EXACTLY 1 VOLT. PLAY THE 80HZ TRACK AND THE VOLTAGE SHOULD BE .707 VOLTS. IF IT IS HIGHER THAN .707 ADJUST THE WX-2 TOO A HIGHER IMPEDANCE SETTING. IF THE VOLTAGE IS LESS THAN .707 ADJUST THE WX-2 TOO A LOWER IMPEDANCE SETTING. ACCURACY OF THE EXACT X-OVER FREQUENCY IS NOT AS CRITICAL WITH THE 2WQ AS WITH THE 5'S AND QUATRO'S WHICH NEED TO BE RIGHT ON.
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