AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: Yog Sothoth on 24 Jun 2022, 05:47 pm
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Hi all,
For any of you who might have Ascend Sierra 2EX speakers, I greatly would appreciate your advice.
I have a pair of Sierra 2's which I love dearly. For me it's hard to beat the speed, accuracy and overall pleasantness of the RAAL tweeters. Recently I have been considering upgrading them to the 2EXs. I drive them with either a McIntosh MC300, a Nord Acoustics NC500, or an Odyssey Stratos stereo extreme. I love all of them and could live with each of them. I also use them in conjunction with a DIY subwoofer using a Dayton Titanic driver in a sealed enclosure; I drive it with one of the other amplifiers that I'm currently not using. I use it for 2 channel and HT. I'm quite happy with it.
But, like many of us, I seek for the next step forward toward something better.
If anyone has done an upgrade to their Sierra 2's, or heard the EXs, or just has an opinion on anything, anything at all, I would love to hear it! Do you feel the upgrade cost is worth it to your ears?
Thanks!
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:D try it. Don't they give a 30 day trial ? Not sure ,, :D
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I think that you'd be better off with the Philharmonicaudio.com BMR.
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Since you demand my opinion I'll give it. I think chocolate ice cream is always the best. It can only be made better by putting more chocolate in it, flakes, pieces, swirls, whatever, more chocolate is always better.
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Since you demand my opinion I'll give it. I think chocolate ice cream is always the best. It can only be made better by putting more chocolate in it, flakes, pieces, swirls, whatever, more chocolate is always better.
Excellent! Best opinion I've heard all day! I shall get me some.
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I think that you'd be better off with the Philharmonicaudio.com BMR.
Thank you, I shall check it out!
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:D try it. Don't they give a 30 day trial ? Not sure ,, :D
Good point! They do claim that in big bold letters, but I'm not sure it applies to the upgrade kits. But I shall ask! Thanks.
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The upgrade kit to go from 2 to 2EX is available for $368 each from Ascend Acoustics. For an extra charge they'll do the work for you.
According to their site: it includes new crossover and the "EX" woofer "which dramatically improves bass extension, mid-bass punch, midrange detail and improves overall power handling."
I've owned the original CBM-170 for 20 years and still love them (use them in FL/FR positions in my AV system). Like the company's methods for online shopping, high content value including individual loudspeaker testing, and upgrade paths. Did have the HTM-200 for use as a center channel but it was a dud, finally replaced it with CMT-340SE as movies changed from left/right front channel emphasis to center channel emphasis when I replaced my TV.
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The upgrade kit to go from 2 to 2EX is available for $368 each from Ascend Acoustics. For an extra charge they'll do the work for you.
According to their site: it includes new crossover and the "EX" woofer "which dramatically improves bass extension, mid-bass punch, midrange detail and improves overall power handling."
I've owned the original CBM-170 for 20 years and still love them (use them in FL/FR positions in my AV system). Like the company's methods for online shopping, high content value including individual loudspeaker testing, and upgrade paths. Did have the HTM-200 for use as a center channel but it was a dud, finally replaced it with CMT-340SE as movies changed from left/right front channel emphasis to center channel emphasis when I replaced my TV.
That is a positive report. I don't mind doing the work; my background is electronics and this is a fairly simple change.
I also find the BMRs interesting, also using a RAAL tweeter. Perhaps the kit from Meniscus at some future time.
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I also find the BMRs interesting, also using a RAAL tweeter. Perhaps the kit from Meniscus at some future time.
That would be so cool!
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The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but not necessarily better. If you "dearly love" the Sierra 2, why jump ship completely?
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Better do your kits soon because inflation is coming. Components' prices will be going up - a lot.
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The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but not necessarily better. If you "dearly love" the Sierra 2, why jump ship completely?
Because sometimes the grass actually is greener and better! I dearly loved my original Dali IV speakers too in 1985, but I would have sorely missed out on so many better things if I had not forged forward over the years.
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Better do your kits soon because inflation is coming. Components' prices will be going up - a lot.
Good point.
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Because sometimes the grass actually is greener and better! I dearly loved my original Dali IV speakers too in 1985, but I would have sorely missed out on so many better things if I had not forged forward over the years.
+1 :lol: it sure can be!
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To answer-ish your original question I demo’s the 2EX and really liked them but ultimately went with Salk Supercharged Song Surrounds. The 2EX low end occasionally surprised me and overall sound, build quality, and value were well balanced.
I would never discourage anyone from trying Ascend but since someone introduced BMR into the mix I will say the BMR is in another class - at least the generation I own.
I have a pair of the originals in Salk boxes. I cannot imagine a better value. Read any review or thread. You’ll not find a negative comment. Nothing but praise for the product and Dennis Murphy. That said, my BMR use a 7” Scan Speak woofer compared to the current 6’ SB Acoustics. I can’t compare low end grunt, but one reason I love the BMR is one of the reasons I bought the Songs;Dennis’ cross over magic.
What sets Dennis’ speakers apart may be less about what you hear and more about where you hear it. What I mean are subtle but very noticeable sound stage details.
Either way you can’t go wrong. Dave and Dennis are passionate about their product and the people who enjoy them.
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To answer-ish your original question I demo’s the 2EX and really liked them but ultimately went with Salk Supercharged Song Surrounds. The 2EX low end occasionally surprised me and overall sound, build quality, and value were well balanced.
I would never discourage anyone from trying Ascend but since someone introduced BMR into the mix I will say the BMR is in another class - at least the generation I own.
I have a pair of the originals in Salk boxes. I cannot imagine a better value. Read any review or thread. You’ll not find a negative comment. Nothing but praise for the product and Dennis Murphy. That said, my BMR use a 7” Scan Speak woofer compared to the current 6’ SB Acoustics. I can’t compare low end grunt, but one reason I love the BMR is one of the reasons I bought the Songs;Dennis’ cross over magic.
What sets Dennis’ speakers apart may be less about what you hear and more about where you hear it. What I mean are subtle but very noticeable sound stage details.
Either way you can’t go wrong. Dave and Dennis are passionate about their product and the people who enjoy them.
Thank you very much! I shall check them out.
I too had questions about the Scan speak vs. the SB Acoustics in the 2EX, so that is something to look further at also.
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I have the Sierra 2 EX and like them a lot. I can’t comment on how they compare to the Sierra 2 as I haven’t heard them. This is what the website says the improvements the SEAS midrange brings.
With the development of this shockingly high-performance new woofer, we have improved upon every aspect of our award winning Sierra-2. Truly stunning bass extension and midbass punch, mids are cleaner - smoother and more detailed, improved dynamics and better composure at higher volume levels.
As you mention, a lot of the magic of the Sierra 2’s is in the RAAL tweeter. My pair was custom ordered with the RAAL 70-20 XR upgrade which I think takes them to another level.
So if you like the speaker I would say the upgrade is probably worth it. Although only you can decide if the upgrade kit yields enough improvement for the money.
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I have the Sierra 2 EX and like them a lot. I can’t comment on how they compare to the Sierra 2 as I haven’t heard them. This is what the website says the improvements the SEAS midrange brings.
With the development of this shockingly high-performance new woofer, we have improved upon every aspect of our award winning Sierra-2. Truly stunning bass extension and midbass punch, mids are cleaner - smoother and more detailed, improved dynamics and better composure at higher volume levels.
As you mention, a lot of the magic of the Sierra 2’s is in the RAAL tweeter. My pair was custom ordered with the RAAL 70-20 XR upgrade which I think takes them to another level.
So if you like the speaker I would say the upgrade is probably worth it. Although only you can decide if the upgrade kit yields enough improvement for the money.
Excellent, that you very much!
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After much research and soul searching I have decided to build a pair of Philharmonic BMR monitors rather than upgrade the Ascends.
I ordered the parts from Meniscus and the flatpack cabinets from Speakerhardware. I'm excited about building another pair of speakers; I've been so ill for so long I've not been able to do much. While I wait, I must also clean out my garage (workshop really, as a car has never been in it!).
Thank you all for your input; your suggestions have been very helpful. If anyone has built these and has any advice I would welcome it gladly. I've also turned up plenty of information online.
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Since you demand my opinion I'll give it. I think chocolate ice cream is always the best. It can only be made better by putting more chocolate in it, flakes, pieces, swirls, whatever, more chocolate is always better.
:lol: I have always believed that any food can be greatly improved by adding a sufficient quantity of bacon to it...even chocolate ice cream.
--Jerome
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:lol: I have always believed that any food can be greatly improved by adding a sufficient quantity of bacon to it.
Oh, Hell yes!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242628)
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Haha, thanks guys! All opinions welcome, and I suspect barring a couple of holdouts almost everyone would concur. Certainly more agreement than all the differing audio opinions!
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My opinion is that opinions are akin to rectums, everyone has one, but seldom do you want to hear someone else's.
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After much research and soul searching I have decided to build a pair of Philharmonic BMR monitors rather than upgrade the Ascends.
I ordered the parts from Meniscus and the flatpack cabinets from Speakerhardware. I'm excited about building another pair of speakers; I've been so ill for so long I've not been able to do much. While I wait, I must also clean out my garage (workshop really, as a car has never been in it!).
Thank you all for your input; your suggestions have been very helpful. If anyone has built these and has any advice I would welcome it gladly. I've also turned up plenty of information online.
That's so cool!
In terms of building those speakers, you'll probably find the best people are on the avsforum philharmonicaudio speaker thread - but avoid discussing about anything else as a Denon/Pioneer, etc. AVR is "all you need." :roll:
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That's so cool!
In terms of building those speakers, you'll probably find the best people are on the avsforum philharmonicaudio speaker thread - but avoid discussing about anything else as a Denon/Pioneer, etc. AVR is "all you need." :roll:
Awesome, thank you! Despite aceinc's truism, it's not all undesirable rectums after all! :-)
I'll try to keep a running photolog of the construction to post. I think the construction will be pretty straightforward, especially since I've build speaker cabinets from scratch before. Where I have zero experience is in finishing Baltic birch. Likely go with the suggestion from the flatpack supplier. But I'm open to any other rectums, er, opinions, too!
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Awesome, thank you! Despite aceinc's truism, it's not all undesirable rectums after all! :-)
I'll try to keep a running photolog of the construction to post. I think the construction will be pretty straightforward, especially since I've build speaker cabinets from scratch before. Where I have zero experience is in finishing Baltic birch. Likely go with the suggestion from the flatpack supplier. But I'm open to any other rectums, er, opinions, too!
I would love to hear your opinion on the Philharmonic BMRs. I went to an Audio Show in Phoenix in August and heard those speakers. There were a couple of other show-goers who raved about those speakers. It wasn't an ideal way to hear them but they really didn't do anything for me. I was seriously considering the Ascends you were cogitating about so, in the name of science, I demand you provide your opinion.
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I would love to hear your opinion on the Philharmonic BMRs. I went to an Audio Show in Phoenix in August and heard those speakers. There were a couple of other show-goers who raved about those speakers. It wasn't an ideal way to hear them but they really didn't do anything for me. I was seriously considering the Ascends you were cogitating about so, in the name of science, I demand you provide your opinion.
I will say the Ascends are fantastic; I don't think you can go wrong with them! The RAAL tweeter is very smooth, and the transition between the RAAL and the woofer is seamless. The only reason I'm moving to the BMRs is I've been anxious to build something (and they use the RAAL tweeter!). I've been in the process of cleaning out 8 years of workshop constipation (I have been in hospital, gravely ill, undergoing organ transplants) so I can begin working on projects. I now have all the parts and the flatpack cabinet for the BMRs and should begin their construction as soon as I finish a small set of bedroom speakers I'm working on. I will definitely post here the process and results.
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I’ve had a pair of the previous generation (7” Scan-Speak) of Philharmonic BMR in Salk boxes for about 4 years. I auditioned the Sierra 2EX for a month but decided to go with a pair of Salk Supercharged SongSurrounds. No fault of the Sierras. The cabinets are beautiful, solid, and well built. Unless something has changed both BMR and Sierra EX use the same RAAL 64/10 tweeter.
Both are fine speakers but in my experience the BMR is a step above. Dave did a masterful job with the EX. They occasionally surprised me how deep they would dig. But the BMR has the driver and box size advantage. And Dennis Murphy is a cross over magician.
At the end of the day I’d happily recommend either the BMR oSierra EX. But I think they scratch different itches. The BMR is a big book shelf speaker with a fuller sound.
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Here (https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/compare.html?origin0=ASR&measurement=CEA2034&speaker0=Philharmonic+BMR&origin1=Misc&speaker1=Ascend+Acoustics+Sierra-2EX+V2&version1=asr&version0=eac-v2-20220518) is your comparison.
BPT
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Here (https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/compare.html?origin0=ASR&measurement=CEA2034&speaker0=Philharmonic+BMR&origin1=Misc&speaker1=Ascend+Acoustics+Sierra-2EX+V2&version1=asr&version0=eac-v2-20220518) is your comparison.
BPT
Oh, that's great, thank you!
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I've just picked up the Ascend Sierra LX to play with. Big mids and it digs low. Nice sounding speaker. I swapped some KEF LS50 Metas which I had in the area to compare and the LX filled the room better but didn't have the highs that the KEFs did so well. There have been a few user reviews out there and I'm thinking the LX might be better in a HT set up but I'd like to see if it breaks in and opens up.
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I've just picked up the Ascend Sierra LX to play with. Big mids and it digs low. Nice sounding speaker. I swapped some KEF LS50 Metas which I had in the area to compare and the LX filled the room better but didn't have the highs that the KEFs did so well. There have been a few user reviews out there and I'm thinking the LX might be better in a HT set up but I'd like to see if it breaks in and opens up.
Interesting. The Sierra 2EXs have have the RAAL ribbon tweeter and they shine especially in the high frequencies. I've never heard the LXs so that's good information to know!
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Right now, if you want that upper end beauty and transparency, stick with the Sierra 2EX. I'm still trying to figure out this LX and I like it but not the high ends. I don't know if there is a fix for that or whether there is a break in period. It really sounds great in the HT set up but not as much in a stereo set up. There is an interesting user review here:
https://byrneweb.com/sunburn/blog/2022/05/01/ascend-acoustics-sierra-lx-vs-sierra-2ex-comparison/
I would say that the review is fairly accurate. I don't know about measurements. Maybe I'm used to ribbon and AMT tweeters but I miss that in the speaker in the two channel system so the LX is a bit frustrating there. The mids and lows are really something though.
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Daryl Zero--are you using EQ (https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html (https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html)) on these speakers when making comparison. It would be nice to have your comparison opinion with EQ on each.
BPT
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Right now, if you want that upper end beauty and transparency, stick with the Sierra 2EX. I'm still trying to figure out this LX and I like it but not the high ends. I don't know if there is a fix for that or whether there is a break in period. It really sounds great in the HT set up but not as much in a stereo set up. There is an interesting user review here:
https://byrneweb.com/sunburn/blog/2022/05/01/ascend-acoustics-sierra-lx-vs-sierra-2ex-comparison/
I would say that the review is fairly accurate. I don't know about measurements. Maybe I'm used to ribbon and AMT tweeters but I miss that in the speaker in the two channel system so the LX is a bit frustrating there. The mids and lows are really something though.
Yeah I think I would really miss the shimmering highs if I went back to a non-ribbon high end. I'm in the process of building a set of Philharmonic BMRs and they use the same RAAL tweeter; I'll be very interested to hear them when they are done. Ultimately I'll have to sell the Ascends to cover the BMRs though.
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Daryl Zero--are you using EQ (https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html (https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/eqs.html)) on these speakers when making comparison. It would be nice to have your comparison opinion with EQ on each.
BPT
Not using eq. My amp is the Cambridge Audio CXA81 which does not have tone controls. The app on the phone or ipad probably can do some eq but I haven't needed it for the LS50s. The amp is a bit on the warm side so that might be taming the LS50s to a degree as I have read about others complaining that they are too bright. In my HT set up, the LXs are driven by a Denon AVR and sound pretty good there. There is more room and open space but there are several other speakers so I'm not as zoned into what they sound like there.