Platter frozen on WTA

vortrex · « **on:** 7 Oct 2012, 02:01 am »

I just got back from being out of town for 2 weeks and wanted to listen to some tunes tonight, but my platter is frozen up it seems. At first I thought the motor wasn't running, but it was and the thread was simply spinning because it wasn't strong enough to move the platter. Everything was fine the day I left! Any ides? If I spin the platter by hand with the belt off there's a lot of friction. I did check and there is oil. Did the bearing get out of whack somehow?

SteevA · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 03:30 am »

Does the oil reach up to the top bearing? Also, is the top bearing still a nice clean V shape without any sign of wearing to the shape of the spindle?

Can you post a picture of it?

Steve

vortrex · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 04:00 am »

By top bearing do you mean the white poly piece with the triangle cutout?

SteevA · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 04:48 am »

Yes. If there is any is oil in there, and you say there is, then the only bearing that might not be getting enough is the top one.

I found it very hard to be sure I had the right amount of oil in there so I just added it incrementally so that when I put the spindle in the level rose to, or just above, the top bearing. It was then easy to see because when I took the platter off there was a little left on the top of the bearing.

You have to be very careful to add only a little bit between each level test (putting the spindle in) since if you put in too much it will overflow out onto the plinth.

Actually, thinking about it now, I should have just used the blunt end of a drill bit in place of the spindle to test for oil level. I doubt the fact that one is pointed and one isn’t would have made a significant difference if you chose a drill bit of the same diameter as the spindle.

I would imagine that those bearings are relatively easily replaced if you have munted one.

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 04:49 am »

Accidental duplicate posting

coverto · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:27 am »

Are you sure the bearing oil should rise to the level of the top bearing? I just bought one of these, and the instructions indicate the oil should be 5mm above the lower bearing, if I understood them correctly. I attained this level by measuring it with a drinking straw. Not sure whether at that level the oil rises to the second bearing once the spindle is inserted?

I ask all of this partly to make sure I'm not causing wear to the upper bearing by not oiling it properly.

vortrex · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:28 am »

No, the oil was not covering the top bearing, but it never has and was fine. I was using the table the day I left on my trip and it was behaving normally, then 2 weeks later with nobody touching it, it stopped working. I added more oil to cover the bearing, did not help. What it seems to be is the black plastic round piece with the 4 allen heads is rubbing against the underside of the platter. Is it possible the bottom bearing dropped?

SteevA · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:38 am »

Quote from: coverto on 7 Oct 2012, 05:27 am

Are you sure the bearing oil should rise to the level of the top bearing? I just bought one of these, and the instructions indicate the oil should be 5mm above the lower bearing, if I understood them correctly. I attained this level by measuring it with a drinking straw. Not sure whether at that level the oil rises to the second bearing once the spindle is inserted?

I ask all of this partly to make sure I'm not causing wear to the upper bearing by not oiling it properly.

Only when the spindle is in. If it reaches the top bearing without the spindle in you will have mess to clean up. Teflon is good but it is not immortal.

Irrespective of what the instructions said I determined that the top bearing needed to receive some oil so I proceeded accordingly to make sure it did.

I did run a test with it lower, just in case the oil wicked up the rotating spindle to the top bearing when the oil was at a lower level, but I did not detect this happening so increased the level till I got wetting of the top bearing.

I have found enough flakey stuff in the Versalex instructions to decide to rely on my judgement and not what the instruction manual says. The instruction manual for the arm would have you setting up the anti skating in reverse if you followed it blindly.

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 06:00 am »

Quote from: vortrex on 7 Oct 2012, 05:28 am

No, the oil was not covering the top bearing, but it never has and was fine. I was using the table the day I left on my trip and it was behaving normally, then 2 weeks later with nobody touching it, it stopped working. I added more oil to cover the bearing, did not help. What it seems to be is the black plastic round piece with the 4 allen heads is rubbing against the underside of the platter. Is it possible the bottom bearing dropped?

If that is happening it sounds like the bottom bearing has collapsed. Either that or the platter has slipped down the spindle. It is hard to imagine that happening but I guess it can’t be ruled out.

From what I have read the WTA and the Versalex have exactly the same platter so you should therefore have 37mm of spindle sticking out the top of the platter (measured without the mat). If you have more then it would indicate that the platter has dropped down the spindle. I can't really see that happening though, unless it was hit with a hammer from below, or perhaps dropped on its pointed end.

Steve

vortrex · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 06:41 am »

It's right at 37mm.

I'll pull the bearing assembly out tomorrow for a look.

SteevA · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 07:21 am »

Have you looked underneath? Perhaps the bearing housing has cracked. If it has there would be oil underneath.

vortrex · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 07:43 am »

Yeah I had, no oil underneath.

SteevA · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 10:17 am »

You are only really left with bottom bearing failure. Bathed in oil it is unlikely to have worn out already so a split seems more likely, unless some metal swarf got down there. The platter only needs to drop by about 1mm before it would catch.

Mike Pranka · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 02:41 pm »

"Vortrex" Derek-

There aren't too many variables, here. Your bearing should be fine. Most likely you (unfortunately) have the 'table sitting where it can receive direct sunlight. The black platter has become hot enough that the bond between it and the spindle has weakened a bit (altered clearance).. causing the platter to slide slightly down the spindle. Heat it up again, slide the platter back a few mm and keep the 'table away from direct heat sources. This is a good general rule for any home electronics.

Anyone with a technical question would be wise to contact me first rather than starting a thread. I've probably set up more of these 'tables than anyone at this point.. have taken a couple completely apart and have Firebaugh's home number in my cell phone. I don't know everything, but can sort out most anything in a timely manner.

Mike

vortrex · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 04:05 pm »

Definitely no sun or heat. It's in a darkened room.

vortrex · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 04:16 pm »

Resolved. Even though it sits in a dark room I guess the spindle did slip. I pressed it into the carpet and saw it is moveable, so I raised it a bit and all is good again. Strange that it somehow moved when I was out of town!

SteevA · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 07:49 pm »

I guess I should have measured the length of spindle sticking out the bottom rather than assuming all the spindles were the same overall length and all the platters the same thickness.

Steve

guf · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 05:04 am »

Quote from: vortrex on 7 Oct 2012, 04:05 pm

Definitely no sun or heat. It's in a darkened room.

we had 2 of the hottest days of the year while you were gone. if "heat or sun" can affect it maybe that was it.

vortrex · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 05:23 am »

That's what I heard. I think the house got hot enough on the inside to make it slip. These 1930's houses with no insulation really heat up when it does get hot outside, which is quite rare.

Plink · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Oct 2012, 02:44 am »

Quote from: Mike Pranka on 7 Oct 2012, 02:41 pm

"Vortrex" Derek-

There aren't too many variables, here. Your bearing should be fine. Most likely you (unfortunately) have the 'table sitting where it can receive direct sunlight. The black platter has become hot enough that the bond between it and the spindle has weakened a bit (altered clearance).. causing the platter to slide slightly down the spindle. Heat it up again, slide the platter back a few mm and keep the 'table away from direct heat sources. This is a good general rule for any home electronics.

Anyone with a technical question would be wise to contact me first rather than starting a thread. I've probably set up more of these 'tables than anyone at this point.. have taken a couple completely apart and have Firebaugh's home number in my cell phone. I don't know everything, but can sort out most anything in a timely manner.

Mike

Is this in the manual?