[Peter J]

Can't say enough about the "sleep on it" approach. By and large, we hurry too much, methinks, but I guess that's the luxury of being jobless. Seems we have some common ground, fishboat.  I once took a class from David Marks on gilding and chemical patination. I wondered about him when the fires were all around Santa Rosa. Was that last year?

In another thread, you mentioned that you were a polymer chemist. I bet we could have some laughs about "all that glitters is not gold" jargon that adorns things in the woodworking and furniture world, especially finishes. One that I remember to this day was a tag on a piece of furniture that read; "authentic simulated hand-rubbed finish". Yep, you guessed it... old school wood grained vinyl wrap.

I'm enjoying your thread. Been thinking about your edgebanding on the curved surfaces and how I might approach it. Perhaps a big dowel or small roller to follow the hot iron, but you'll get it done, I'm sure.

[fishboat]

Glad you're enjoying things so far Peter. A few hiccups along the way, but I'm managing to mostly land on my feet.

Being jobless is undoubtedly the best job I've ever had. I put in 4-6 hours in the shop if I want to or do something else if I prefer.  Today I'm riding bikes with my significant other and her son. We usually put in a solid 30+ miles. For an older fart..it's enough these days.

About a month ago I finished watching all the 20-21 seasons of the New Yankee Workshop(youtube). It took me about a year, but it was good to see Norm again.  David Marks started putting his shows up on youtube also.  I've been digging into those too.  "Well, let's get started, but first we'll make a jig..."  (it appears the fires never reached Santa Rosa, or thankfully, the Gamble House in Pasadena)

A lot of modern furniture, and even furniture 50 years back, does look pretty, but often when you look under the hood.."Oy!"  One trend that has me scratching my head is the zeal that young woodworkers seem to have as they produce items in the MCM(mid-century-modern) style.   Not a fan here. I understand the design and where it came from, but, still, it's a total yawn for me. Maybe it's due to having grown up on the tail end of the years when that stuff was new.  I really like distressed-looking furniture and make some pieces now and then. When my Mom was still around I'd point out a nice piece we'd see..she didn't care for it, at all. She said she grew up(during the Depression) with pieces that looked like that, as that's all they had.   I digress..

Back to speakers..

Edgebanding..I think I did mention way up on the top of this thread about using wood veneer on the SV's.  That plan has changed over the years.  I agree, edgebanding these curved surfaces would be a trip.  I think where I was at back then was a veneered outer (and inner) face on the sides and black, painted edges.  Where I'm at now is possibly textured black inner parts(baffles & sub boxes) probably Duratex and a Target Coatings satin black lacquer on the inside of the side faces and edges.  On the outside of the sides I'm thinking, don't ask me why but it seems to be sticking, an authentic simulated hand rubbed..laminate.  It is authentic in a sense as laminates (and vinyl wood floors) are actually photographs of the real thing printed on laminate surface.  I've considered many options and I keep coming back to "Sahara Noir".  I think it might look pretty good. It's not locked in yet, but, as I'm quickly running out of parts to build, I'm going to have to really start thinking about finishes and what to do, when.

This is "Sahara Noir"...



...and speaking of gilding and chemical patination(that must have been a great course), I've considered using a patinated copper leaf to accent the edges of just the side panels.  The patination would be subtle, like a copper penny, to match the copper streaks in the Noir.  The edges would accent the black grills rather than having a completely black pillar when viewing from the front. Something like this



I've seen there are some materials that darken copper without going various colors. Maybe you have some thoughts on that. Marks did a lot of great patinations.

[fishboat]

..oh, and new power is in da house!

[Tyson]

Super V is pretty much a perfect match for those 2.  Nice!

[Peter J]

Here's a sample board I saved from that class. IIRC, sodium sulfide is what I used on baffles of X-Otica. That would be top row second from left. Bare copper far right. Purchased from artchemicals.com. Other gilding is Dutch Metal and Silver.

[fishboat]

Cool..very nice, thanks.  Any idea what was done on the very top left corner?

I remember the copper work you did on your speakers.  Looked beautiful.

I've watched a number of videos from Pedulla Studio on u-tube lately and he uses copper leaf in some of his work.  Looks nice. I ordered some and have been looking for some application.  Not sure I'll use it the the SVs..I have to do some trial runs to see how it looks. It'll be after final painting so I really don't want to mess anything up.

[Peter J]

Fortunately, I have a grid on the back identifying what did what to what. Far left top is Copper with Sulfated Potash. A couple of things I might mention with patination and gilding. Patination results are often uneven and somewhat unpredictable, so factor that into design. Also, if the size is too wet when you apply gilding, it will saturate through it and thus seal the top surface and interfere with the patination process. It's not exact science. If one were just clearing over it that wouldn't pose much of a problem, but the chemicals used must contact the actual metal to have an effect.

There are some really pretty laminates out there but unfortunately, in the residential building world at least, they play second fiddle to almost all other countertop materials which means manufacturers don't develop a lot of new stuff for a shrinking market. They still have all the virtues, just not the public appeal. I've used it some for speakers and would again.

[fishboat]

Thanks for your thoughts Peter.  It'll all come down to some experimentation to see what effects I can create and whether it can be repeated(acceptably).   I'll be applying (if I do) the copper leaf to a finished surface.  The last thing I want to do is mess that up as it'll be some work to get it back.

 

[fishboat]

Short day today.

I completed all the threaded insert installs into (wet)epoxied bore holes for both the 2 coax drivers and the 4 subs.  Wiring holes have been laid out and drilled in the sub baffle and sub boxes as needed. A 1/2 inch radius was routered on the rear side of 4 sub mounting holes.  A 3/4 inch radius was routered on the rear side of the coax mounting holes and sanded smooth.

Not too exciting to see.





I'm drafting and planning the fabrication of the footer on the front-bottom of the speakers.  It'll mount into the tapered speaker base with wood dowels or steel or aluminum rods. It won't be weight bearing normally, but it probably should be able to support the speaker in an upright position if needed.  I'll fabricate it now so it can be finished/painted/gilded along with everything else.

This is a rough drawing.  The real thing will be smaller than this, I just want to make a blank big enough that I can pare it down to a final size.

[fishboat]

Still at it.  I've reached the sanding stage..not terribly exciting, but necessary.  I'm sanding, sealing, filling with epoxy, and sanding again to a silky-smooth feel everything that is visible when the speakers are fully assembled. 

I'm coating MDF edges where there are joints with epoxy to seal them up and make them all one, smooth surface.









I'm using the JB Weld Liquid Hardener to seal MDF edges where there is no joint. Apply a liberal coat, sand down, and apply a second, thinner coat, then sand smooth seems to work pretty well.  The MDF is mostly glass smooth after this.  This hardener is a styrene/acrylic emulsion polymer(waterbased) very similar to products I worked with in years past.  It's high solids..I'd guess 55% polymer with the rest being water, mostly.  I'm using Medex(water resistant) MDF.  It'll still absorb water like a sponge if you soak it, but this hardener forms a film  quickly and the MDF doesn't seem to swell when I apply it. The Minwax epoxy filler offers a better seal to the edges I think, but, once mixed, the pot life is brief. The JB Weld hardener is easier to work with and still dries very quickly.  I sand it about 15 minutes after application. I'll still be applying an auto glazing putty on top of this hardener later on, but one step at a time.





Lots of parts, lots of sanding.



And today I started the assembly of all the parts..Sub boxes are attached to the sub baffles by glue and screws.



I'm also starting to dabble with the copper leaf I may be using.  I have a fair amount of experimentation to do to work out a patina that'll look right. I think I'll be using shellac as the leaf-binder.  Everything sticks to shellac so using it will eliminate any issues with the lacquer topcoat I'll be using.  Shellac also can speed up the leaf application process as you lay on a thin coat of shellac and apply the leaf within a minute or two.

I did a little home-chemistry by making up a sodium version of "Liver of Sulfur" (potassium sulfide). Liver of Sulfur is a common material that produces a patina on metal foils. I made sodium sulfide by mixing 100g water, 25g of lye(sodium hydroxide), and 10g of garden sulfur(used to lower the pH of garden soil).  I had the ingredients around the house, so finally I didn't have to make yet anther run for supplies. 



I'm hoping to mist onto the copper leaf a dilute solution of the sodium sulfide and give it a patina before I apply the leaf to the speaker side edges.  That way I won't be applying a high pH water solution to fresh clear lacquer.  We'll see if it's possible.

(As an aside..a hundred+ years back roofers that installed copper flashing or copper roofs on houses sped up the green copper patina(verdigris) by wiping the copper down with horse or mule urine.  The urine has a high ammonia/nitrogen content and this yields the green patina within a couple hours.  Now days, liquid fertilizer works well and smells better.  I built a cupola years ago and put a copper sheet roof on it..copper sheet is nice material to work with.)