[KTS]

Good Morning,
I enjoy listening to music at low levels from time to time, I have noticed with the Encores that they really start to express their capability at moderate volume,  say 80-85 decibels. They sound very very good I just wanted to ask a couple of questions, but in anticipation of possible future questions I will include some pertinent information.

System- Emotiva CD player used as a transport, Denefreps Aries II, Schiit Freya+ and Shiit Vidar.

Speakers I replaced- Elac unifi 2.0

Questions
Will this improve with break-in? I have around 30hrs on the Encores
Will more power improve low level listening, currently 100 watts per is plenty if I turn it up. I can run mono to increase output, but I will need another Vidar.


I love the Encores sound and would like to improve the detail and clarity at lower levels if possible.

Thank you for your thoughts, Kelly

[nlitworld]

The low level detail should improve a bit as your speakers break in. Did you go with the stock crossovers or did you go full tilt boogie with upgrades? This would be an area that could be improved down the road. Next would be looking at cables from cd to dac, and lastly some tube rolling in the freya+. Be patient for them to break in. Shoving more power their direction won't help playing at low level when they're using 1/4W.

-Lloyd

[KTS]

The low level detail should improve a bit as your speakers break in. Did you go with the stock crossovers or did you go full tilt boogie with upgrades? This would be an area that could be improved down the road. Next would be looking at cables from cd to dac, and lastly some tube rolling in the freya+. Be patient for them to break in. Shoving more power their direction won't help playing at low level when they're using 1/4W.

-Lloyd

I have the upgraded crossovers, the overall detail has improved during break in (they sound awesome) and low level sound has improved, but it is not as impactful as the 90 Db and up level of detail.

[KTS]

The low level detail should improve a bit as your speakers break in. Did you go with the stock crossovers or did you go full tilt boogie with upgrades? This would be an area that could be improved down the road. Next would be looking at cables from cd to dac, and lastly some tube rolling in the freya+. Be patient for them to break in. Shoving more power their direction won't help playing at low level when they're using 1/4W.

-Lloyd

The coax cable is an audio quest (green)

[corndog71]

You have 4 cables:

CD to DAC - Digital -

DAC to preamp - Interconnect -

Preamp to Amp - Interconnect -

Amp to Speaker - Speaker cable -

There’s 4 ways you can change the sound. 

Another option:  Get a Schiit Loki Mini+ / Lokius EQ.

[KTS]

You have 4 cables:

CD to DAC - Digital -

DAC to preamp - Interconnect -

Preamp to Amp - Interconnect -

Amp to Speaker - Speaker cable -

There’s 4 ways you can change the sound. 

Another option:  Get a Schiit Loki Mini+ / Lokius EQ.

All the interconnects are the same Audio Quest (green unbalanced) the speaker cables are the 24 strand offered by GR research with tube connectors.

I will investigate the Loki Mini, I appreciate the advice.

[listenermark]

I have a pair of 18 month old encores and similar electronics and find low volume listening really satisfying. When I first ran the encores I would start a listening session at my "normal" volume but would inevitably increase the volume 10 - 20% because they really did open up.  I don't find myself doing that much these days.  The only change in my system has been some DIY room treatment.

[corndog71]

Forgot to write, just give them more time to break in.  They should open up a little more in time. 

[tom739]

Break in has nothing to do specific to low listening.
Swapping cables also is not specific to low level listening.

Both of these items affect all volume levels. So they do not answer your question.
Lots of speakers sound flat or boring at very low levels. To compensate for this, many amps and receivers of the past had a "loudness" switch. This was meant to be used only at low volumes. When engaged, it added more bass, and sometimes more treble. That is your answer. At very low levels add some bass with an EQ or turn up a sub.

[KTS]

I really appreciate everyone’s thoughts on this! What a great community of audio enthusiasts and professionals. As a rule of thumb I generally wait to change anything in my system for 20 days from the prior change and only 1 thing at a time. I will wait until break-in is complete as per recommendations of 400 hrs. I will investigate all recommendations and move forward. Again I appreciate everyone’s comments and advice. The Encores should be broke in at the end of November, I will follow up with this thread to let you know what if anything was done.

Thank you, Kelly

[EdwardT]

I built the tower version of the X-LS with the Sonicap and Miflex upgrade and put them to work last October (21) in our main playback system. It was July before I felt like they were “broken in” - they were dull at low volume and overly bright at high volume before but now they’re very balanced. My bet is patience is your friend and will reward you.

[mlundy57]

Break in has nothing to do specific to low listening.
Swapping cables also is not specific to low level listening.

Both of these items affect all volume levels. So they do not answer your question.
Lots of speakers sound flat or boring at very low levels. To compensate for this, many amps and receivers of the past had a "loudness" switch. This was meant to be used only at low volumes. When engaged, it added more bass, and sometimes more treble. That is your answer. At very low levels add some bass with an EQ or turn up a sub.

For more information on this, check out Fletcher-Munson (a.k.a. equal loudness) curves. Here are a few sources for a start.
https://www.first.edu/blog/fletcher-munson-curves-explained/
https://www.parloursmusic.com/fletcher-munson-curve-explained/
https://audiosolace.com/fletcher-munson-curve-explained/

As for listening levels, I usually listen at 70-75 dB with only peaks hitting the high 80's and into the 90's. I've never had an issue with the X-LS Encores in the 70-75 dB range. If I want to listen at a lower volume, moving closer helps. If I need to listen at much lower though to not disturb my wife when she goes to bed I switch to headphones. I find a good pair of headphones and headphone amp to be preferable to speakers that have to be at an average much below 70dB.

Back t speakers, the better loudness controls were variable with volume. The lower the volume, the more EQ was applied to the lows and highs. As the volume was increased, the level of EQ was reduced to the point the EQ was essentially off when the volume was loud enough to not need the correction. I'm not sure what if any modern products have this ability.

[RMarshall]

400 hours. Is that the standard time it takes speakers to break in? I think I heard that # for the Miflex caps, but that seems a lot for speakers.

[nlitworld]

400 is not uncommon when tossing in copper film caps. First 100 are always the funkiest, but then keep getting better after that.

[mlundy57]

I'm way to impatient to wait months to accumulate 400 hours so during break in, I let them play 24/7 for 3 or 4 days, leave them off for 12-24 hours, then repeat as many times as needed to get to 400 hours. If the need arises to not bother someone, I set the speakers close together and facing each other. Reverse polarity on one speaker so they are out of phase with each other and their output will be greatly reduced. Throw a heavy blanket over them to reduce output even more. This will reduce the full break in period to around three weeks or so.

[KTS]

For more information on this, check out Fletcher-Munson (a.k.a. equal loudness) curves. Here are a few sources for a start.
https://www.first.edu/blog/fletcher-munson-curves-explained/
https://www.parloursmusic.com/fletcher-munson-curve-explained/
https://audiosolace.com/fletcher-munson-curve-explained/

As for listening levels, I usually listen at 70-75 dB with only peaks hitting the high 80's and into the 90's. I've never had an issue with the X-LS Encores in the 70-75 dB range. If I want to listen at a lower volume, moving closer helps. If I need to listen at much lower though to not disturb my wife when she goes to bed I switch to headphones. I find a good pair of headphones and headphone amp to be preferable to speakers that have to be at an average much below 70dB.

Great info, thank you for the links!!
Back t speakers, the better loudness controls were variable with volume. The lower the volume, the more EQ was applied to the lows and highs. As the volume was increased, the level of EQ was reduced to the point the EQ was essentially off when the volume was loud enough to not need the correction. I'm not sure what if any modern products have this ability.

[RMarshall]

I guess that's a good news/bad news thing. Good news is that my little Encores are going to keep getting better. Bad news, I will drive my wife crazy leaving them on 24/7. The blanket idea is a good one though.

Is there an ideal volume that is required?

[tubav]

Put 'em in your car in the garage or on your driveway with a blanket over them. I have a cheap Kenwood receiver I found in the trash that I use to break in new drivers or bookshelf speakers. Find a C&W station and you're all set.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

400 hours. Is that the standard time it takes speakers to break in? I think I heard that # for the Miflex caps, but that seems a lot for speakers.

In my experience, woofers need a good 50 hours of physical break-in, playing bass heavy "brown noise" or music under a bunch of heavy blankets gives them a solid workout to help fill out the bottom end.
The X-statiks are notorious for needing this kind of work out, as they sound really harsh when they are fresh.

Budget-level caps usually dont experience much burn in, and what there is usually happens within the first 100 hrs.

Good quality caps like Sonicap need about 200 hours, with gradual improvements over time, namely to soundstage, imaging, and softening of the edge they have when fresh.

High end caps, (especially oil damped/impregnated caps like Miflex, Jupiter, Mundorf, V-Cap, Duelund, etc) often need 400+ and some of them can be gradual improvement, or dramatic, like Jupiter and the V-Cap ODAM which can sound great one day but forward the next.
(As bypasses, the changes over time are usually more subtle, and less dramatic than when used as main capacitors.)

Most retail speakers won't benefit much from burn-in or break-in.

I guess that's a good news/bad news thing. Good news is that my little Encores are going to keep getting better. Bad news, I will drive my wife crazy leaving them on 24/7. The blanket idea is a good one though.

Is there an ideal volume that is required?

For the first 50 hours of break-in, as loud as is tolerable.
Beyond that, any volume from a whisper up to normal listening levels will benefit the process. Some like to fluctuate the volume throughout the day, but a static volume is fine for burn in.

[KTS]

In my experience, woofers need a good 50 hours of physical break-in, playing bass heavy "brown noise" or music under a bunch of heavy blankets gives them a solid workout to help fill out the bottom end.
The X-statiks are notorious for needing this kind of work out, as they sound really harsh when they are fresh.

Budget-level caps usually dont experience much burn in, and what there is usually happens within the first 100 hrs.

Good quality caps like Sonicap need about 200 hours, with gradual improvements over time, namely to soundstage, imaging, and softening of the edge they have when fresh.

High end caps, (especially oil damped/impregnated caps like Miflex, Jupiter, Mundorf, V-Cap, Duelund, etc) often need 400+ and some of them can be gradual improvement, or dramatic, like Jupiter and the V-Cap ODAM which can sound great one day but forward the next.
(As bypasses, the changes over time are usually more subtle, and less dramatic than when used as main capacitors.)

Most retail speakers won't benefit much from burn-in or break-in.
For the first 50 hours of break-in, as loud as is tolerable.
Beyond that, any volume from a whisper up to normal listening levels will benefit the process. Some like to fluctuate the volume throughout the day, but a static volume is fine for burn in.

Thank you Hobbs, much appreciated!