[pstrisik]

After 15 hours or so of music I can't find any disadvantages with the 1.5 HO solution. This driver is more detailed and have more attack. I also find better depth in the soundstage. The biggest difference is (of course) more in the lower end. Of course I'm biased by my expectations but this is better speaker. Still, I will not part with my old speakers, I had a small accident with and notch I made makes the sale value much lower than what they worth to me. A cool thing is the fact that I now can speakerroll back and forth.



Totally off topic; If I can make a solution, can tubeamps be hung on the wall?

Good to hear your impressions and glad they are working out for you.  Now, I must resist.....

Are you talking about mounting to the wall so the bottom of the amp is against the wall?  You could use a shelf and let it sit naturally.  Or, to avoid the heat issue, hang so the transformers are on the bottom and tubes towards the top (if the amp is laid out that way).  Cables, if jacks are on the back of the amp, would hang straight down.  If an integrated amp with controls, might make it more difficult though.

If you have similar climate to me in Alaska, the heat might not be an issue.  If I recall, we are at about the same latitude.

......Peter

[Canada Rob]

I wouldn't recommend putting your amp on the wall unless it's on a shelf and the wall is very sturdy.  Tube amps are more sensitive to outside vibrations and microphonics than solid state amps.  Also, the metal top plate of the amp (assuming it's a Decware or similar) acts as a heatsink and is most efficient when sitting as designed.

[roscoe65]

I suppose that would depend on the tube amp.  The first thing that would occur to me is to investigate if the amp were structurally suitable for hanging at a 90 degree angle (assuming that is your intention).  Most amps are designed with the weight of the transformers resting on top of a horizontal chassis, and the aluminum or sheet steel top plate may not like a 5 pound transformer hanging by four screws.

On the other hand, some designers accommodate sideways mounting.  Don Garber's Fi X amp is cruciform in shape and rests on its "side".

Other considerations include making sure that tubes are aligned for plates to be vertical.

The broader question is what is the purpose of hanging the amp on the wall?

[danabunner]

Is he really thinking of hanging it vertically?  I interpreted his question as hanging a shelf on a wall and sitting his amp on it.  As long as it was securely attached to the joists in the wall, with sturdy shelf brackets, I can't see that being more prone to vibration than a cabinet.   

[pstrisik]

I suppose that would depend on the tube amp.  The first thing that would occur to me is to investigate if the amp were structurally suitable for hanging at a 90 degree angle (assuming that is your intention).  Most amps are designed with the weight of the transformers resting on top of a horizontal chassis, and the aluminum or sheet steel top plate may not like a 5 pound transformer hanging by four screws.

On the other hand, some designers accommodate sideways mounting.  Don Garber's Fi X amp is cruciform in shape and rests on its "side".

Other considerations include making sure that tubes are aligned for plates to be vertical.

The broader question is what is the purpose of hanging the amp on the wall?

Good point about the transformer weight!

[jorgen]

The amps om question are mono zen amps from Decware and I should let you know this was just an idea for a solution which wasn't thought through. I need to figure out a way to have a phono stage, a pre ( for now my miniTori, and these two mono in a smallish cabinet, or rather, I can't make all of them fit. If I was to follow this idea, I would hang them with transformers downwards and Steve states that the chassis is quite robust.

[pstrisik]

You could always put the monos close to the speakers.  I think this is the preferred sonic arrangement as well: Longer low signal cables and shorter speaker cables.  I'm not sure you would hear a difference unless the length was very long, but could be a solution for physical arrangement.

[jorgen]

Yes this the first option to explore, and probably the most obvious way to solve a small luxury problems. Having (too) much audio equipment is a good thing.

The new speakers are really growing on me. I went to my mountain cabin for a few days but my son has been playing a lot of music over the weekend and the HO speakers are developing very nice. I hear a lot more details with this drivers, and also more body is added to the details.

[roscoe65]

I will second Peter's recommendation.  With the small size of the Zen amps they could sit completely in the shadow of your speakers. As a bonus your speaker cables would be very short.  On the other hand, you will be running longer interconnects.

I would also avoid putting too many tube components in a small cabinet.  While they may be ok with the heat, you will find that the life of some components may be shortened.

[jorgen]

Rearranged my cabinet and made enough room for the necessary gear, but I will have a problem if I want to go for a preamp, which I need because of the only one source limitation, or if I want a more solid DAC
 later. Since I have spend all my money this will not be an issue for a long time.

Anybody have any experience what thes speakers prefer in terms of placement? I have plenty of room behind my listening position, and the wall behind them is 4,5 meters, 12-13' 
Maybe unnecessary to write but they have a solid backwards port

[Louis O]

Hi Jorgen,

Thanks and great news regarding the new High Output speakers. Very happy you like them. It was a very good idea to go with the larger 7 XRS cabs for the added volume and still keeping with the small footprint. Bass and mid-bass benefits.

When it's possible a picture would really help in regards to placement.

I also agree with Peter and roscoe65's posts for the amp placement.

Thanks again,
Louis

[roscoe65]

Hi Jorgen,

Thanks and great news regarding the new High Output speakers. Very happy you like them. It was a very good idea to go with the larger 7 XRS cabs for the added volume and still keeping with the small footprint. Bass and mid-bass benefits.

When it's possible a picture would really help in regards to placement.

I also agree with Peter and roscoe65's posts for the amp placement.

Thanks again,
Louis

Louis,

Is it possible to retrofit a Super Alnico monitor as a 1.5HO?  It would appear to have about 20% more volume than a Super 7XRS cabinet.

R

[Louis O]

Hi roscoe65,

Thanks and it's easy, but you would lose the grill and need a larger port.
For fun I sealed the ports on Alnico HO monitors and was happy with the bass.

I read your post about how far away you are and you must live on Long Island. I have a lot of family there.

Thanks again,
Louis

[roscoe65]

Hi roscoe65,

Thanks and it's easy, but you would lose the grill and need a larger port.
For fun I sealed the ports on Alnico HO monitors and was happy with the bass.

I read your post about how far away you are and you must live on Long Island. I have a lot of family there.

Thanks again,
Louis

I'm in Huntington.  I may give you a call when things settle out in my system to discuss.

[Louis O]

Hi roscoe65,

Great and look forward to speaking with you. Your right across the sound from me on the north shore.

Thanks,
Louis

[jorgen]

This is so much fun. I'll bet 15 hours of fun this weekend and I just want more and more. A question for the knowledgeable. I'm pretty sure Louis stated these was 95 or 96 dB sensitive, but I read that both the HO monitors and the xrs HO floor-standers is 99dB. I might be wrong but i want to ask if size of cab can influence on sensitivity, or other factors? Of course there is an opportunity that I remember wrongly

[roscoe65]

This is so much fun. I'll bet 15 hours of fun this weekend and I just want more and more. A question for the knowledgeable. I'm pretty sure Louis stated these was 95 or 96 dB sensitive, but I read that both the HO monitors and the xrs HO floor-standers is 99dB. I might be wrong but i want to ask if size of cab can influence on sensitivity, or other factors? Of course there is an opportunity that I remember wrongly

The Alnico speakers were originally listed as 93dB and later revised to be listed as 95dB.  Depending on how we measure efficiency, they may be 93 dB (if measured from 100hz to 10khz) or they may be 95dB if measured from 300hz to 10khz.  It depends on how specific we are in defining our measurement terms.

If we now add a second driver below 200hz as in the 1.5 way speakers, we are adding an additional 3dB in efficiency below 200hz, but the efficiency will remain unchanged above that frequency.

This can be can be confusing for a number of reasons.  First is the difference between speaker efficiency and sensitivity.  The former measures the effectiveness of converting electrical power (watts) into acoustical power (dB).  The latter measures the effectiveness of converting a voltage signal (e.g., 2.83V) into acoustical power (dB).  The distinction is that when speaker impedance is halved and voltage remains unchanged, we are actually delivering twice as much power (+3dB) to the speaker.  Simply put:  one watt = 2.83V into 8 ohms.  However, 2.83v into 4 ohms = 2 watts.  In other words, if the 1.5 way speaker is 99dB/2.83v/1m and it measures 4 ohms, it is really a 96dB/w/1m speaker.  My feeling is that the Alnico 1.5 way speakers are a legitimate 95-96dB/w/m speaker over its musical frequency range.

The 1.5 way speakers should be the same efficiency/sensitivity over much of their range.  However, the larger cabinet may increase bass output.  If we are stating efficiency as +-3dB, this increase in bass output may extend the efficiency range a few hz on the bottom end.  This is especially true for in-room (i.e.,, real world) efficiency, which is how we actually experience the speaker.

Generally, we [should] measure efficiency using a standard set of terms, e.g., 96dB/w/m +-3dB from 50hz - 15khz.  That is a meaningful set of measurements when comparing one speaker with another.  That is not saying that this set of measurements define how "loud" we perceive a speaker to be.  That involves other psychoacoustic effects besides simple measured efficiency.

[jorgen]

[roscoe65]

Looks great Jorgen.  Looks like you found a satisfactory solution for your amps.

I like the modest proportions of your speakers in the room.  It looks like Louis took the Super 7 XRS cabinet off the website.  I imagine there is some overlap with the similar Junior 8 XRS.  In fact, I would not be surprised to see the RS7 phased out.  The 4", 6.5" and 8" drivers seem to have things covered, especially with the HO offerings.

[jorgen]

I have a pair of custom cab floorstanders with 7" Alnico drivers and black Sound Anchor bottoms. They are really cool, but sound wise they can't be compared to HO Alnico version. When I have speakers about 6feet from back wall and sides and no walls behind listening position I get a really wide and deep soundstage. Details are all there. Room is 4,6 m wide. Speakers about 1,5 meters from all wall. 180g version of Amused to death is mindbuggling. Handles all types of music I have tested