[gstraley]

    I have read a number of posts here on AC and have read a number of links to online magazine reviews about RMAF 2010. I also had a couple of audio friends that attended and spoke to them about different rooms.
    What I came across is that there are no 2 people that agree about what they heard in each room. Some liked room A and hated room B. Other people hated room A and liked room B. I also picked up on that if a person owns some piece of equipment from a room, they liked what they heard from that room.
    From what I understand there were 4 rooms that were using the same Daedalus speakers. I have read posts here on AC that a number of people liked the Daedalus room with the Modwright equipment. A couple of friends told me the only room with Daedalus speakers they liked was the one with a SET amp driving them. One friend felt that it was one of if not the best sound of the show. He did not like the room with the Modwright equipment or the other 2 rooms.
    Some people commented that the GR Research room had the best bass of the show. Others that I have heard from thought that it was over blown and boomy. A couple of guys here on AC felt that the treble was a bit on the bright side. A friend of mine that for the most part does not like solid state amps (except for a few) felt that the treble was pretty good and non fatiguing to him. Is it the recording they did not like or are they blaming the speakers?
    One reviewer commented that the Aperion Audio Verus Grand Tower Loudspeakers were a speaker that he would buy. At the price, if it is really that good it is a steal and the audio bargain of the century. He is about the only one that even mentioned that speaker. You usually do not even get a finish like that unless the speakers are way over $5,000.00 not to mention that they were only $1800.00. What did he hear in it that room that most other people did not? Was it the really nice finish for the money or was it the sound?
   I read some peoples "best of show" rooms and they were other peoples "worst of show" rooms. How can there be that much difference in peoples opinion? I can see "best of show" and it was pretty good but "best of show" and terrible?
   I have been to a number of audio shows and have been an exhibitor. I came across feeling that no hotel rooms at Audio shows really sound as good as your own room. What I also noticed was smaller speakers that do not do low bass as well as other speakers tended to sound better in those hotel rooms. The one time that I exhibited at RMAF I was in a room that had 3 speakers from this one manufacture. The only one that sounded even remotely balance was their smallest speaker. Unfortunately every one walking in wanted to hear the large statement speaker. The speaker over powered the room.
   The other thing that seems to be apparent is that some (online) magazines usually only talk about the ultra expensive rooms and seem to dismiss other rooms unless there is an innovative product they want to talk about. Some of the best sounding rooms IMO were not the ultra expensive rooms but the mid priced rooms. A good number of the ultra expensive rooms usually ended up sounding the worst IMO.
   I was not there so I cannot personally comment on what I heard. This posting is not to single any one person or manufacture out. I was just point out what I read and heard from people that were there. It is also to point out how many differing opinions there are even amongst audiophiles. Who do you believe? Anyone? No one?

[Tyson]

Well, there's actually only one opinion that's right, and that's mine.  Ignore the rabble and let the divine truth of Tysonius guide you.  Since he generally agrees with me, we'll allow the opinion of Jasonius (PEZymandius) to maybe attain demi-godhood as well.

[Baranyi]

Gregg,
        Wish you had come.  Had a good time with Rich until we somehow lost him the second day. Bob

[bombadil111]

I think the best beer in the world comes from Germany, my friend prefers the English. He just doesn't get it!

I spent years buying off other peoples recommendations, but have since learned that the maxim applies:  YMMV!!! 

I've finally found the sound I've been searching for; and wouldn't you know it, someone just posted in the "OB" forum that my beloved Hawthornes have a "stuffy midrange and dull highs."  He doesn't get it either! 

Seriously tho, what is dull for you, sounds more natural to me.  Again the maxim:  YMMV.

I've never been to RMAF or similar, but would like to attend for the entertainment, and also to hear the "potential" in various designs.  But for now, I will continue down the road I'm on; improving and tweaking my system.  It does not matter now what someone else says.  This works for me.  For the relative newcomers to this crazy, and fun, hobby; find out what works for you. . . and if you can get to one of these shows!! It'll probably be AK fest for me next year.

[Tyson]

Seriously though, there is no magic bullet in high end audio.  You gotta listen for yourself and make your own judgment.  Hard to do, unless you go to a B&M store or spend the $$ to go to a show like RMAF.  Once there, ignore everyone and just listen.

[cujobob]

There are a lot of prejudices people carry with them that affect their opinions.  Sometimes, certain speakers turned them off and they listen to other similar designs believing they'll have the same tradeoffs.  Sometimes, they'll believe what other people are saying without truly forming their own opinion.  Sometimes, they're fanboys.  Sometimes, they're fooled by trickery (sounds nice in quick demo, not so much for a true listening session)  Sometimes, it's just a matter of personal preference.

As for differing comments on the same speakers...music is likely different and not all of the same recording quality.  Were those giving opinions listening from the same spot to the same music?  Likely not.  I think a lot of times people look at a design and form prejudices and therefore, many would be wise to hide their speakers and let people decide for themselves.  We all have our own beliefs...about how a coax should sound...how a fullranger should sound...etc.

[MaxCast]

Well, there's actually only one opinion that's right, and that's mine.  Ignore the rabble and let the divine truth of Tysonius guide you.

Is that tinnitus? I couldn't find a wiki on Tysonius 
I did find Pezizomycotina which I think was related to dinner Friday night??   

Any who, my take on audio shows.
- I can understand the AC problems.
- I can't understand much of the room problems as I did a pole and hotel rooms were about the size of our average listening room.  As with any room, bring treatments.
- fly by reporting issues.  where were you when you listened (the back wall), type of music (gotta hear something you are familiar with), first impressions (room, looks of the equipment, looks of the host, price, etc.)
- I do believe the sound will change through out the show (tweeks, positioning, gear, etc)
- You will have cheerleaders of certain brands.
- And now the biggest...."that amp sounded great(bad)"  How do you know it was not a different component that was picking up the slack or bringing the synergy down.   


Bass issues? see Big B's post.  I think an eq may be a must for audio shows.

Ultimately, we each have our own idea of what sounds good and skepticism.
I urge everyone to hit an audio show every year and try to audition in your own room.

[2gumby2]

I also thought that the Aperion Audio Verus Grand was one of the best speakers I heard at RMAF and the best value IMO. I probably would buy a pair if I had room. Not quite as good as my Odyssey Audio Kismet speakers, but great for the money. I have five 2-channel systems at my home and my wife made it clear to me before I went to RMAF that I was not to buy any more speakers. So I bought a preamp from Wyred4sound. I just had to buy something. My money was burning a hole in my pocket.

[studiotech]

1.  If people do not use their own music that they are INTIMATELY familiar with, their opinion should count for VERY little.  Sonic memory is fickle enough without throwing in the variable of the recording.  I mean, come on people, did you ever consider that the recording might be bright, bass heavy, over compressed?

2.  Older listeners MAY prefer brighter speakers as their high freq hearing diminished with age.  Hence the varing opinions on something like the GR research top end.  I think they are somewhat bright and measurements verify this, but if your hearing up there is rolling off, maybe they are a perfect fit.

3.  Peoples idea of too much or not enough bass varies wildly.  I know many listeners who are completely happy with a system that plays to 60Hz well and could care less if they get the actual fundamental of the lowest notes.

I wish all so-called audiophiles could attend this seminar:

https://almin.memberclicks.net/assets/Documents/WinterSymposia/sean%20olive%20training%20for%20web.pdf

Greg - tech - www.phatplanetstudios.com

[studiotech]

I would like to add that the only opinions that I trust are those that felt that same way about several rooms we had in common.  In other words, maybe their own personal preferences mirror mine, so I can more comfortably trust their opinion of a room I did not get to hear.  Other than that, I don't trust most other than a few fellow engineers that I've worked with.  IMHO many people at these shows don't know what accurate systems sound like.  When I say "accurate", I mean to whatever is captured on the recording.

Greg

[decal]

It's not magical or mysterious or even hard to figure out.Bottom line....everyone perceives sound differently.There's no reason other than that.

[PeteG]

It's not magical or mysterious or even hard to figure out.Bottom line....everyone perceives sound differently.There's no reason other than that.

I agree, also one can go to the same room three different times (Fri,Sat and Sun) and hear a completely different sound. Someone can say how bad a room sounds (Fri) and I can listen to the same room on Sun and think these guys are crazy it sounds pretty damn good.   

[Bigfish]

I attended the show a couple of years ago and I found the show to be amazing while also being frustrating.  I was able to see/hear a tremendous amount of gear and meet many of the key people in this industry.  For me it was difficult to make an A versus B versus C comparison and I think that what a lot of folks do when they attend RMAF.  You walk into a hotel room (usually poorly treated)
and it has speakers and other gear you probably have never heard before.  Are you listening to the gear, the speakers, the cables, etc?  Maybe you can hear enough to say I would like to hear that in my home/system.

Bottom-line for me is that I enjoy reading the comments about the rooms and the gear but I take the opinions about the room sound quality with a grain of salt.  Heck, it is even difficult to read professional reviews of gear and wonder if you would agree with the reviewer.

Ken

[K Shep]

 
  Some people commented that the GR Research room had the best bass of the show. Others that I have heard from thought that it was over blown and boomy.   

Depending on where one sits or stands in a room, the bass response changes.

[eclein]

If everyone heard the same thing this hobby sure would be boring. 

[jriggy]

I have been wondering with these same dilemmas about this years RMAF. IMO this subject is just as important, if not more, than the actual show coverage from ACer's.
Too many variables... and I have wondered if it is possible for a 'bad show situation' or one to many negative comments from a 'trusted', 'popular' or 'experienced' personality on the internet can do more overall harm than the entire show did good for a manufacturer.

[vinyl_lady]

From what I understand there were 4 rooms that were using the same Daedalus speakers. I have read posts here on AC that a number of people liked the Daedalus room with the Modwright equipment. A couple of friends told me the only room with Daedalus speakers they liked was the one with a SET amp driving them. One friend felt that it was one of if not the best sound of the show. He did not like the room with the Modwright equipment or the other 2 rooms.

There are a lot of variables involved here. Two of the 4 rooms used Ulyesses with the all poly crossover upgrade. One room was a large suite powered by ModWright KWA 150 amps; the other room was a smaller room powered by a Berning OTL. The preamps, DACs, sources and cables were different. One room was a large suite with only vinyl. The Ulysesses in this room did not have the AP crossover (the upgrade was preformed after the show) and were powered by Atma-Sphere OTLs and pre with phono and different cables. The 4th room had the smaller DA-RMa speakers powered by a ModWright KWA 100 with the LS 100 pre with phono and ModWright modded Sony & Oppo source equipment and different cables than any of the other rooms. So, was the difference in the rooms the amps, the sources, the cables, the size of the room, the speakers, the music being played or a combination of all the above?

I think it boils down to we have different "likes" when it comes to audio gear and music. Some like tubes; some like SS; some like computer streaming, some like vinyl; some like classical, others like RnR; some like a warm sound, others like a strong bass sound, etc., etc. And it is all good! We perceive sound differently. The bottom line is to trust your own ears. Thus, I think we should expect many different opinions on room sounds at RMAF.

This years RMAF was a blast and IMO, the best one yet (this was my 6th in a row).

[Letitroll98]

Even the industry reviewers, as much as they are derided on this and other forums, all include caveats with their show reports like, "Sounded good at the show but will hold opinion pending full report".  These are professionals who have been to a zillion shows and know how colored perceptions can be at these things because of all of the variables mentioned so far.  The wide variance in reports from AC'ers is to be expected, nothing unusual at all. 

[jriggy]

I just hope someone interested in a product [that was not at the show] does not cross a manufacturer off their list due to comments and perceptions made from a 'flawed' situation.

[adydula]

This is probably the worst scenario to really do critical listening in and comparisons...combined with perceptions and being human its a wonder that the opinions are as close or as far as they are from each other.

I would walk into a room (no i didnt attend this show) in other shows and if the music was not to my liking I instantly got a not so great feeling etc...depending on how many people are in the room, the attitudes etc all feed into ones overall analysis.....its hard to be objective.

I need to have some time with the setup, play certain familiar cuts etc...

I guess if you can put aside all your bagagge etc then you probably could come up with a gut feel on how things sound in a particular room if you get to listen to somthing your familiar with.

If the rooms are acoustically different for whatever reason, then something you know sounds good is in a lousy room, setup etc will most likely sound lousy.

Imagine vendors on day one are in one room, day two they all swap rooms around!! Day three they swap again!! Oh boy!

This would be an incentive to stay for all three days etc!!

Alex