Omega B200 Aperiodic Production Model I

konut · « **Reply #20 on:** 1 Sep 2005, 03:39 pm »

In the meantime, just using one Aperiodic 8 is just a cruel tease

More like TAUNTING me! After the driver spent the night lying on its back I hooked it up to the amp .......AND IT WORKED!!!!!!!

A quick installation into the cabinet and I'm in sonic bliss! STEREO!

I called Louis with the good news and he agreed that this was a crazy hobby. (I think I may be conditioning Louis to dread my calls) I'm listening to Sergio and Odair Assad play Rameau, Scarlatti, Couperin, and Bach on their Thomas Humphrey guitars right now. I can see why musicians like these speakers so much, as the detail is so good that the intonation is right in your face. I will be monitoring, in more ways than one, the recalcitrant speaker closely. More later.........

powerbench · « **Reply #21 on:** 1 Sep 2005, 05:01 pm »

Hmmm if i have any trouubles Ill

let eveyone know of course the concern was with the driver itself not Louis workor professionalism ...Let me clarify that!!!

Louis O · « **Reply #22 on:** 2 Sep 2005, 02:18 am »

Hi Konut,

Really sorry about the driver's on and off operation. I did play them for 3 days and tried to get a jump-start in breaking the in for you. I was really surprised to hear about the problem. I hope it works out and please keep a me posted. I'll send you a new one if it fails again, no worries at all.

I'm so happy your enjoying the speakers and the speed, Tone and articulation gets you into the music so much more. The only other speaker that does is so good is the HempTones. Can't wait to hear what you think after they fully break in. Dan is so right about the B200s being very good out of the box.

Hi JLM,

I've had a few F200a's fail and just sent one back to Madisound last week for a buzzing problem and another driver who’s motor fell off the basket (bad glue). It's something that happens.

Hi Powerbench,

I ran yours for a couple of days and no problems at all. I hope you get them before the weekend.

Hi Vinnie.

Thanks for posting about the 1.5 way speaker. It will be the Hemp version at the show and the modular aspect of it allows so much flexibility and this is why I will be offering it as my first floorstander. The B200 version will be available too.

Thanks again,
Louis

konut · « **Reply #23 on:** 2 Sep 2005, 02:39 am »

I spent the better part of the day throwing many different kinds of music at the A8s. Some general conclusions are in order. First and foremost these speakers will reveal any weaknesses in the upward stream of your components. Most music sounded great. Those pieces that featured a dynamic(loud) presentation in the mid highs(4k-8k) showed the weakness of the power supply and opamps of the Pioneer DV578A.(I see a SB2 in my future) My somewhat 'live' room didn't help in that regard either. The overall presentation is VERY well balanced. The lowest notes of an electric bass are down a few db, but from there on up the response is smooth and fast. Vocals take on a very intimate nature. Every syllable, consonant and vowel is revealed. If its in the recording, your gonna hear it. You can even tell if the singer flossed that day,

, just kidding. I'll echo everyone elses comments that the single driver coherance and lack of crossover makes the midrange something special. I think I'll keep em.

powerbench · « **Reply #24 on:** 2 Sep 2005, 02:47 am »

COOL

miklorsmith · « **Reply #25 on:** 2 Sep 2005, 03:41 pm »

I haven't heard these speakers and take these comments as such - The 4k - 8k band you refer to is right about the area that many high-eff, single drivers struggle with. I know my Fostex 206E's have problems there and I've heard the B200's have published spec's which include a rising response around that same area. I've introduced some series resistance at the positive lead with the Fostexes, and it is somewhat better now, but this is definitely a native characteristic of many drivers of this ilk.

Is it possible the "accent" you're hearing is related to the driver/speaker itself and not the electronics? Now, I'd guess your particular electronics would sound fairly incisive and direct (no tubes) and would illuminate this type of response-bump if present.

Not to detract from what is undoubtedly an excellent speaker - I am SURE they are far better and more even than my half-baked homebuilts which I enjoy immensely. I'll take dynamics, coherence, and life over "flat" any day.

konut · « **Reply #26 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 02:15 am »

Of course you may be right. Now that I think more about it though, maybe I wasnt completely accurate about the offending frequencies. The most noticable 'transgresion' occured with a Telarc disc of Malcolm Frager playing Chopin on a Bosendorfer Imperial concert grand. He can really pound those keys in a dynamic manor. The top notes on a grand stop at about 4100hz, so its gotta be under that as he wasnt even near the top most octave. With most material there is no accentuation of the upper registers. Its only when really loud dynamics occur does some clang set in which is why I postulated the cause as the DV578. I'm only guessing here. I havnt had these speakers even 3 days yet and there is much wringing out to do yet. I'm sure that my placement is less than ideal and there are other numerous variables yet to be played with. As I work 4-10hr days and have a 45min. commute each way, experimentation will have to wait until my next day off which is next Tuesday.

powerbench · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 02:36 am »

My experience has been trying different sources,type and quality of material is clearly portrayed with the Aperiodic.I hear more and more as i have been direct and indirectly listening to them. For the heck of it I suggest buy a $30 T-amp with a $6 wallwort supply and give it a shot,I know it sounds silly but you might be suprised.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Sep 2005, 01:00 pm »

Quote from: konut

Its only when really loud dynamics occur does some clang set in which is why I postulated the cause as the DV578. I'm only guessing here....

Hi konut,

While I am not familiar with the sound of your amps, I am familiar with the sound of the stock 578, and believe it may be your weakest link. I bought one to try a while back (around the time I was heavily modding Toshiba 3950s/3960s) and found it to be unpleasing in the mids and highs, and yes, especially during transients. It had a sharp and grainy sound that I didn't care for, and the overall presentation was not to my liking ("digitalitus").

It could also be that your 578 and Kenwood amps don't have the best syergy? As you stated, you only had the speakers for a few days and need to get everything all adjusted. Play around with speaker toe-in, positioning, etc. You'll get there...

Regards,

konut · « **Reply #29 on:** 4 Sep 2005, 12:49 am »

"digitalitus" I think if you look in the dictionary you'll see a picture of the stock 578 under that word.

I've got a 250GB drive waiting to be put in an external enclosure and as soon as I can scrape the funds together, I'll get a stock SB2.That should go a long way to alliviate my digitalitus Its going to be awhile before I can afford mods to it though. In the meantime I'll let the A8 break in and enjoy what I can.

konut · « **Reply #30 on:** 9 Sep 2005, 01:53 am »

As I worked an extra day this week I didnt have a chance to do any fiddling until yesterday and today. I did however set my 578 to run burn in tracks while I was at work so with the burn in that Louis did, my burn in and music listening, I estimate about 100 hours on this pair. There is no evidence of the problem that plagued the one driver on the first day. Both speakers are sounding superb. Initially I had set the A8s about 5ft apart and 2ft from the back wall with a severe toe in on my home brew Lowes speaker stands. See this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=21272 Then I saw this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=21445&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 when I woke up this morning and as the 1/4" lip on the wall brick wasnt giving me enough height, I decided to pick a pair up so as to use some points under the cabinets and add a couple inches of height. I also spoke with Vinnie today and he recommended 6 to 8 feet of separation and maybe moving the speakers back tward the wall as to get a little more bass reinforcement and either no toe in or slight toe in. So now they're 7ft apart and 14" from the back wall.
I put on the Telarc 20 bit Rachmaninoff: A Window in Time. This is a recording of piano rolls made by Rachmaninoff digitaly transfered to play on a Bosendorfer 290SE reproducing piano. WOW!!!!! Sergei was in my room! If you love virtuoso piano performances of superb recording quality run, dont walk, and pick up this disc! The imaging? Superb! The soundstage? Expansive! Detail out of this world! Next was Kind of Blue. Ouch! Master Tape Hiss! Great sound though. You could hear the saliva in the sax mouthpiece! I could go on, suffice to say this speaker WILL point up any defect in either the recording or your reproducing chain. Reference quality monitors by any measure. Louis, your gonna sell a TON of these!

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #31 on:** 9 Sep 2005, 02:03 am »

Quote from: konut

So now they're 7ft apart and 14" from the back wall.
...

Hi konut,

Don't hesitate in putting them even closer to the wall...they don't seem to get boomy at all (gotta love the seal box for this!). I'm getting very tight, fast, and tuneful bass! This speaker is so good it is unreal, and my well broken-in pair will be at RMAF

konut · « **Reply #32 on:** 9 Sep 2005, 02:06 am »

roymail · « **Reply #33 on:** 13 Sep 2005, 01:49 am »

Hi konut,

Quote

Next was Kind of Blue. Ouch! Master Tape Hiss! Great sound though. You could hear the saliva in the sax mouthpiece! I could go on, suffice to say this speaker WILL point up any defect in either the recording or your reproducing chain.

Miles Davis, Kind of Blue, is a remastered Columbia CD that I enjoy more every time I listen to it. So when you mentioned "tape hiss" I just had to go back and listen again. I listen pretty critically, too, and just didn't recall any tape hiss at all. Frankly, I just don't hear it. But, what I do hear as evident on track 5 & 6, to my ears sounds like a brush making light circles on a snare drum. I listened several times to be certain and got pretty close to the Super 3s. You might do this... when you hear it out of one speaker, move to the other speaker and listen. Trumpet and tenor sax solos usually come out of one channel on this CD. What you hear from the other side is mostly an echo of that instrument along with whatever else is playing out of that channel. Same is true with this sound. If it were tape hiss, I think you would hear the same from both channels. Of course, I'm no recording engineer, either. Try it again and let me know what you think. I could be wrong... I was wrong once before, you know!

Maybe others who own this CD will jump in and give us their take on this. One more thing, you're exactly right about the saliva in the tenor sax mouthpiece. I use to play tenor sax in a group, so I know what it sounds like. That's one of the instruments that has very obvious "breathy tone." Love it! Thanks, konut.

konut · « **Reply #34 on:** 13 Sep 2005, 02:08 am »

While my revisit of Kind of Blue will have to wait until tommorow, the hiss was VERY evident. It was dramatised by the comparison to the previous disc which was that Rachmaninoff piano roll disc by Telarc. The Telarc is a modern digital recording with no hiss whatsoever. I listen at quite loud levels The piano averaged between 95 to 100db peaking at 105 to 110db. This recreated a piano at 'live' levels. I had not turned the level down and as soon as the 'Blue' began the hiss was THERE. There are a number of cuts on 'Blue' where the drummer uses brushes and those were reproduced with no tizz or hash, very realistic. Ultimately as the music plays the hiss is buried by ones involvement, but initially it was very evident. What the A8 does so well is give you a sense of the space the music was recorded in. Very satisfying.

powerbench · « **Reply #35 on:** 13 Sep 2005, 03:45 am »

I agree with every one .I also have them about 12-14in from back wall,and 6ft apart. Are they recording dependent ...YES but a very amazing degree of detail (of course with ClariT),whats suprising is off axis depersion is interesting, there is quite particular soundfield I never have heard before.

Yup Louis and Vinnie are going to be VERY busy soon

roymail · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Sep 2005, 05:16 pm »

Hi konut, (gotta love that alias)

Hey, my friend, I bow to the A8's and your ears even though you listen at very loud volume levels (95db - 105db). You may want to turn it down occasionally so you can continue to enjoy music for a long time. My normal listening volume is 80db - 85db with some peaks in the 90's.

OK, not to be outdone, I pulled out my old CD player with a headphone jack and volume control. So I put on the headphones, "Kind of Blue" and cranked it. Well, Blow Me Down (i.e. Popeye), I can't believe it... TAPE HISS! Then I slowly decreased the volume, and it went away even though it was still pretty loud. Konut, how about that first cymbal crash... awesome with long decay. So now I know why I couldn't hear it. The Super 3's (wonderful speakers) just can't resolve detail on the level of the A8's (OK, Dmason, stop laughing) at the volume where I do most of my listening. This adds even more credibility to what Vinnie, Dmason and Louis have been saying about these amazing speakers. Another reason is that you have to listen at very high volume to hear it. I don't plan to push my Super 3's that hard. And, finally, I'm certain that you're ears are younger than mine, and I've listened to my share of rock on SS gear a lot during my younger years. So, what have we learned here? First, the Omega A8's ability to resolve detail is absolutely AMAZING and beyond question. The A8's are definitely in my future. Also, we've been reminded that learning never stops especially in this hobby. And, last I've learned that konut is a heck of a nice guy.

We've shared PM's and he's been quite helpful. Thanks, konut.

As the main Samarai leader said in the movie, "The Last Samarai," I've enjoyed this conversation.

-- Roy

konut · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Sep 2005, 08:24 pm »

Thank you for your gracious comments. Your 100% right about the learning never stopping. While I have my own opinions and prejudicises regarding most things, I will authorise anyone to bitch slap me if I dont at least allow everyone else their own opinions and prejudices. Of course I'm gonna bitch slap you right back if your wrong!

Regarding loudness, I am cognisant of the risks and well aware of the parameters of hearing damage. It is my opinion(

) that to recreate 'live' sound levels occasionally allows one to experience the thrill of music as it was intended by the composer. If you've had the good fortune to witness a full scale church organ with 'all the stops pulled out' or Mahler front row center then you know the feeling of emotional involment music can convey upon the listener when allowed the 'full experience'.. Its no wonder that congregants in the middle ages were moved when the organist played. A 16hz pedal note at full volume would indeed convey the presence of God! The challenge for the audio hobbiest is to recreate the event without distortion. Its my view that distorion is the greatest danger to hearing not volume of itself. Orchestra conductors are regularly subjected to volume levels that would make audioligists cringe. Thats one of the many reasons I had chosen the A8 as I thought that it would allow the realistic reproduction of music without compression or distortion. I have not been disappionted!

roymail · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 Sep 2005, 10:47 pm »

Hi konut,

I really like what you said here; "Its no wonder that congregants in the middle ages were moved when the organist played. A 16hz pedal note at full volume would indeed convey the presence of God"!

With a sub that will reproduce a 16hz note at high output and the A8's, I guess you'd have no problem reproducing the live event. And, the collaboration of Dmason and Louis on this new project which uses two B200's per side... well the "live event" may just get a bit more lively. Who knows?

"Its my view that distorion is the greatest danger to hearing not volume of itself. Orchestra conductors are regularly subjected to volume levels that would make audioligists cringe."

I'll think about that one, but I'm certain that it's true to a great extent. All I know is that if I listen too loud for too long, my ears start hurting. Then I figure I'd better turn it down. I still remember leaving a Jethro Tull concert one night and not being able to hear until the next day. That got my attention, so I just try to be careful.

I'll let you know how my project turns out. But I'm slow about it, so it may take awhile. Thanks.

-- Roy

powerbench · « **Reply #39 on:** 14 Sep 2005, 12:23 am »

Im glad your unveiling more of the A8s attributes which just confirms my experiences so far....I just deter in posting them as I dont want to sound repetitive.
After speaking to Louis this week Im really looking at what is upcoming especially mating the A8 with its new bottom counterpart

. I can see myself buiding a second system for my heavier Rock collection with another ClariT + SB2/ and Hemptone but thats gonna wait till after christmas. I want to see what the Hemp 1.5 or floorstander evolves into...