AudioCircle

Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Hagerman Technology => Topic started by: hagtech on 29 Apr 2013, 07:59 pm

Title: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 29 Apr 2013, 07:59 pm
I finally added a BUGLE2 page to the website.  Taking pre-orders now with expected delivery in June.  Many people had been asking how to get one of these since the Kickstarter project has closed.  Here it is!  All parts are in stock except for the translucent cases, which are supposed to ship this week.

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: WireNut on 29 Apr 2013, 09:40 pm
I finally added a BUGLE2 page to the website.  Taking pre-orders now with expected delivery in June.  Many people had been asking how to get one of these since the Kickstarter project has closed.  Here it is!  All parts are in stock except for the translucent cases, which are supposed to ship this week.
jh

Hi Jim.
Trying to download the kit manual or user manual for the bugle 2 from your site I got the following message.

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /pdf/ on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 1 May 2013, 12:15 am
I haven't finished the manuals yet - waiting for the plastic enclosures to come in.

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: ttan98 on 25 May 2013, 05:50 am
Hi,

I am from Australia, the Bugle II arrived yesterday.  It is very well documented and I don't think I will have difficulty in putting the kit together.

Thanks...
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: homsup9 on 27 May 2013, 06:11 pm
Hello Jim,

Are you going to offer the "Elite" version of the Bugle 2 to the public?  If so, what's your timeframe on that?

Thanks.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 27 May 2013, 10:57 pm
You can already buy the ELITE at www.haglabs.com/bugle2.html. 

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: kc8apf on 6 Jun 2013, 05:20 am
My Bugle2 kit from the Kickstarter arrived last week but I only found time to assemble it tonight.  Pretty straightforward with the directions and took a few hours.  Family is asleep so critical listening will need to wait but Foreigner's self-titled album sounds pretty good at low volume.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81733)
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: REY on 21 Jun 2013, 05:02 pm
My kit arrived a few weeks ago, it took me catching a cold and not been able to leave the house to put it together, It took  about 3 hrs, the little sucker sounds amazing, quiet, with a lot of authority and detail, this is my third or fourth bugle built, battery operated, external power supply, audiophile parts, etc. This is  by far the best sounding one, thanks Jim, sometimes less is more.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Batty on 26 Aug 2013, 11:31 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85891)

Since the picture was taken I have altered the gain to 54dB and changed the output IC to a pair of OPA627s, this has improved the bass quite a bit.
I now prefer this over my Marshall Leech pre pre into my phono input on the Copland.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Brinkman on 19 Sep 2013, 03:38 am
Hi Jim,

I am using a reasonably precise L/C meter to measure and channel match the capacitors for my Bugle2 (I do the same with the resistors). I also have spare 1500pF and 3000pF caps that I can use to add capacitance for better matching.  So I have two questions. Should I be concerned with the extra inductance introduced by the leads of the paralleled capacitors? And while i'm adding capacitance, is there some other value than the nominal ones to more precisely fit this circuit's RIAA correction EQ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 1 Oct 2013, 06:18 am
Stick with the specified capacitance values.  Any lead inductance will likely not be a problem.

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Brinkman on 2 Oct 2013, 04:57 pm
Thanks Jim. I posted before checking your FB page. Glad you got to see some National parks before the shutdown!

As for the Bugle2, it is up and running well. A very solid, tells-it-like-it-is preamp.

As I mentioned before, as an additional step in the sorting process, I L&R channel match the components. Beyond this, the voltage dividers in the op amp feedback loops were also channel matched by quotient.

As for the stock capacitors, I upgraded the four 220nF and two 10nF capacitors. I had a big bag of 10nF film/foil Dayton caps from Parts Express so it was really easy to find a pair of 9.9nF caps. The stock 220nF were within spec (I don't recall the exact values) but didn't allow for any additional capacitance for matching or RIAA precision so I swapped these with some AudioCap alphas I salvaged from a discarded active crossover PCB. While the Audiocaps are film/foil types, they also had a poor tolerance, ranging from 210nF to 240nF. With the help of some 3000pF soviet Teflon FT-1 caps, 3300pF polystyrene/foil caps and an extra 10nF Dayton cap, I was able to match the RIAA at 219.9nF and the coupling caps at 240nF.

When all is said and done, I regret not splurging on a large assortment of Vishay Dale RN resistors to obtain the noise figures of the Bugle2 Elite and perhaps even more accurate RIAA & channel matching. In fact, I do not think it would be too extreme to use Vishay naked foil resistors in this circuit.

I did have Browndog adapter with a pair of AD729s mounted so I socketed the third op amp position and rolled that in. I also socketed the input loading resistors. Gain is set at 40dB.

As for feedback, I think it would be a nice touch for there to have been a proviso for optional trimmer resistors in both legs of the RIAA EQ. With the help on an online RIAA EQ calculator, builders could punch in the measured value of their RIAA capacitors and a target resistance would be output based on that. The trimmers could be dialed to hit that mark.

I also really think Jim should bring back the Bugle power supply. Once builders get a taste of what a wall-wart powered Bugle2 can resolve, the stock wall-wart really starts to feel kinda shabby. A plug-and-play power supply upgrade to the Bugle2 is worth considering. Pro-Ject did the same thing with their entry-level turntables and the power supply upgrade became the major "must-have" upgrade for folks on the upgrade path.

So yes, I love my Bugle2. It chugs along with an authority that effortlessly rivals other well-regarded entry-level offerings such as my Bellari VP-129 (also upgraded). This is a real tells-it-like-it-is phono stage. No euphoria, just clarity. This is a fantastic kit.

Thanks Jim!
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Oct 2013, 07:48 pm

When all is said and done, I regret not splurging on a large assortment of Vishay Dale RN resistors to obtain the noise figures of the Bugle2 Elite and perhaps even more accurate RIAA & channel matching. In fact, I do not think it would be too extreme to use Vishay naked foil resistors in this circuit.

I also really think Jim should bring back the Bugle power supply. Once builders get a taste of what a wall-wart powered Bugle2 can resolve, the stock wall-wart really starts to feel kinda shabby. A plug-and-play power supply upgrade to the Bugle2 is worth considering. Pro-Ject did the same thing with their entry-level turntables and the power supply upgrade became the major "must-have" upgrade for folks on the upgrade path.


I think PRP resistors get you close to Vishay naked quality for a lot less money. As for the PS someone posted their Bugle 2 build recently and showed how the Jim's filter does an amazing job at smoothing out the power.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/237627-hagerman-bugle-2-a-2.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/237627-hagerman-bugle-2-a-2.html)
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Folsom on 25 Oct 2013, 08:52 pm
I put the can version of the OPAMP used in the Bugle2, into my original Bugle and can say it is leagues ahead of the original. I'd like to know just how much better the can version is because I don't suspect 627's could be an improvement in my case. Bass certainly is no issue. Clarity is off the chart.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Oct 2013, 11:31 pm
I put the can version of the OPAMP used in the Bugle2, into my original Bugle and can say it is leagues ahead of the original. I'd like to know just how much better the can version is because I don't suspect 627's could be an improvement in my case. Bass certainly is no issue. Clarity is off the chart.

Yes the canned version (lme49720HA) has a large following...
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Folsom on 26 Oct 2013, 12:28 am
For very good reason. They give some serious harmonic qualities, some real body to instruments.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Brinkman on 1 Nov 2013, 11:58 pm
As for the PS someone posted their Bugle 2 build recently and showed how the Jim's filter does an amazing job at smoothing out the power.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/237627-hagerman-bugle-2-a-2.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/237627-hagerman-bugle-2-a-2.html)

His filtering is excellent. I shouldn't have implied it was hindering the Bugle2's performance. However, frankly speaking, a wall wart is a wall wart is a wall wart. The Bugle2 is aimed at entry-level iPod/iphone turntable neophytes, so it probably bugs it's intended audience less than it does me (as I type from my iphone).

Regardless, the Piccolo head amp also requires a power supply.  Maybe we'll see a wall wart for the Piccolo2 as well... but I'd still prefer a high quality standalone solution for both.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Brinkman on 13 Nov 2013, 10:12 pm
Quick question:

If I wanted to remove the Allen Wright time constant, which components would I jumper/change?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: poty on 14 Nov 2013, 06:44 pm
If I wanted to remove the Allen Wright time constant, which components would I jumper/change?
Jump R11.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: izerbi on 15 Nov 2013, 08:58 pm
Hi All,
I'm looking for a bit of advice please.
Been really busy but i'm planning to assemble the bugle2 up to christmas as a gift to myself :wink:
So these lme49720ha opamps are the ones to use at present...? Why not in all positions or replace the 3?
I'm using the bugle at present and really happy so looking to get the best of the new version and for a long time.
Thank you for helping
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Folsom on 15 Nov 2013, 09:52 pm
Get the can version with some heatsinks, all three, you won't be sorry.

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=7lkVKPoqpbb%2FUQ6Cn%2FcA5g%3D%3D

(don't cut the legs too short, they might have to tilt slightly for heatsinks, there are smaller heatsinks BUT they aren't in stock)

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Aavid-Thermalloy/323005B00000G/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMttgyDkZ5Wiug5Aw9MG1ojffhIht%2fGvkUE%3d
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: izerbi on 17 Nov 2013, 11:47 am
Right! Just a couple of things; Why not the NA version which is easier to solder on the pcb? And, are there any "side effects" of using these opamps, for example i notice the voltage between 2.5V to 17V while the power supply on the bugle is 24V i believe.
Cheers
 
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: poty on 17 Nov 2013, 03:19 pm
...i notice the voltage between 2.5V to 17V while the power supply on the bugle is 24V i believe.
The suggested opamp can work up to +17V - 0 - -17V power voltage. The BUGLE2 has 24V input voltage, but then the voltage is divided to +12 - 0 - -12V, so at least the voltage is in the margin.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Clive on 29 Nov 2013, 04:10 pm
Jim,

Are you going to be doing a version if the Bugle2 with adjustable 78 settings or is this something I should be able to work out from original Bugle and BuglePro manuals?  It looks like the mods are the same as they were for the original Bugle.

Thanks,

Clive
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 1 Dec 2013, 11:22 pm
I probably will not do an adjustable version of the BUGLE2.  The modification in the BUGLE PRO manual should work just fine.  You'll need a bigger box.

Or you can always buy a TRUMPET REFERENCE instead.  ;)

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Clive on 2 Dec 2013, 10:55 am
I probably will not do an adjustable version of the BUGLE2.  The modification in the BUGLE PRO manual should work just fine.  You'll need a bigger box.

Or you can always buy a TRUMPET REFERENCE instead.  ;)

jh
Thanks Jim, the component values look incredibly close between Bugle and Bugle2 at the two crucial points on the circuit so that's cool.

While a save up for the Trumpet Reference   :icon_surprised: I have one other question.  The Bugle Pro only has turnover settings for the bass, cut is for treble measured at 10kHz, is my understanding correct?  Sorry if it's obvious!

A second question.....I can get my hands on a Cornet2, the Monogram mods to the original Cornet look like they'd work on the Cornet2, albeit as  stereo version.  Are there any issues with doing this?

Appologies for going OT.

Clive

Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 3 Dec 2013, 07:07 am
Yes, you could build up a C2 with MONOGRAM circuit.

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 12 Jan 2014, 07:33 pm
I made a time-lapse video of how I build the BUGLE2...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=417691971695099

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: izerbi on 13 Feb 2014, 03:08 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94666)

Outstanding!
Finally arranged some time to build the bugle2 and I’m very pleased.
It replaces the bugle and just like Jim said the noise at 60db gain is significantly lower, it is now residual and in no way an issue anymore, brilliant! I believe there is more detail now and a bigger soundstage with better separation of channels. Good stuff!
Went for the cans with the heatsinks and everything fits nicely in the box, also like the led. Decided to improvise some sockets for the gain and loading resistors but I’m not entirely sure about any contact issues with time, the cans look very solid in the sockets though.
First time I turned it on I realized that unlike the bugle this one needs the ground connection, did that and music is on!
Congratulations Jim on another fantastic kit which is fun to build and delivers an excellent performance.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Folsom on 14 Feb 2014, 02:09 am

Those cans are magic. I'm curious how JFET stages sound compared to them. I tried the OPA2134 that was for the original Bugle, in my Bugle, in just the output stage. I turned it off, it's a joke. There just isn't a contest.

However I also tried going back to Caddock TF resistors for the input on my original Bugle. Thats after replacing them with these (http://www.buildanamp.com/Resistor-Replacer-RR.htm). That was just as bad as trying to use the OPA2134 again.

The input resistors, any before the first opamp, should without any shadow of a doubt be LDR's. I don't care what your reservations are about them, by the time the signal gets through to the end you won't care. This is the difference between putting a fleece blanket over your ears while listening at a moderate volume. I wish I was exaggerating, but without the LDR's I lost anything that I'd consider to be "Hi-Fi" in the listening. It went from audiophile to audiopile.

It's nice to see the high grade stuff in yours. But if I'm not mistaken it appears you could also upgrade signal path resistors with something like PRP's or Dale's RN55, that'll fit nicely and not cost you an arm and a leg. However, put LDR's in for R16 L/R. The resistors I'd upgrade (besides R16), R 1, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 15 L/R. Then if you want to get even more fancy, C 2, 3, 9, 10, 13, 14, 17, 18 could be these bad boys (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UFG1H101MPM/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22e0BBN1kF1oiuezSIi%252b9VTw%3d).

These look awfully handy to reduce a little inductance and brain strain.  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-TO-99-TO99-to-DIP8-adapter-PCB-round-pin-/110881521168?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d10dbe10)

Ya, I'm one of those silly tweaking people (trying to give you the disease). But ya know, Jim designs some good sounding stuff; that sounds real nice when you let is breath.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 21 Feb 2014, 06:08 am
Quote
You know the only signal path capacitor is C6 L/R

Actually, C4 and C5 are also directly in the signal path.

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: JohnR on 4 Mar 2014, 10:27 am
Hi folks, if it's of interest I wrote a short photo-essay on assembling the Bugle 2 - http://www.hifizine.com/2014/03/assembling-the-bugle-2-phono-stage/

Jim's time-lapse video is very cool. I did actually write the above quite some time ago, just a delay in publishing :)
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 5 Mar 2014, 10:14 am
Hello AC,
 I have just completed the bugle 2 and it seems to work fine although the volume from one channel is lower than on the other, I have tried to troubleshoot by changing the cables around and switching to another input on the amp but everything verifies issue is in the bugle white channel somewhere. Is this to do with my work or could it be a component problem, granted I am a novice so it may well be my poor craftsmanship.

thanks.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Speedskater on 5 Mar 2014, 03:40 pm
At least it's easier to troubleshoot a stereo unit with only one bad channel.
You can compare the DC voltages from channel to channel.
Or measure the resistors from channel to channel. The values won't match the printed number while in circuit, but they should be the same channel to channel
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 7 Mar 2014, 02:50 pm
Thanks for the reply. I shall have a look may be next week and see if I can draw any conclusions.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: oldman45 on 19 Mar 2014, 03:37 pm
This is my first post on this site.  I just wanted to say thanks to Jim for creating a great product. 

I bought the Bugle 2 last summer and finally got around to putting it together in the fall.  It took me a while because I was busy I haven't messed with assembling something that complex in a long time. I also had to scrounge up a few extra pieces, such as trim pots and op amp sockets, to complete the project.  After struggling with finding a decent soldering iron, things went much smoother.  My old iron just wouldn't heat like it should and then I let the salesman at RadioShack talk me into buying a 60 watt iron.  I knew it would be too hot, but I tried it anyway.  That thing would begin to burn the board if I held it too close.  I ended up buying an iron with a variable temp control.  It works very well. 

The only mods I made were to use OPAMP sockets so that I could easily swap out OP amps.  I also replaced the 47k input resistor with 100k trim pots so that I could play with the sound.  I have a V15vxmr cart and I wanted to see if it made a difference to give it more impedance like people suggest to do.  Honestly, I "think" I can hear a faint difference by adjusting it, but not enough to make it worthwhile.

Jim, I do have a question about the MC amp section.  How does the sound of Bugle 2 MC amp compare the Piccolo?  I just acquired an Audio-Technica AT33EV cart.  It has a .3mv output.  Is the upgrade to the Piccolo worth the cost or will the Bugle 2 be comparable?
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: oldman45 on 19 Mar 2014, 03:40 pm
Hello AC,
 I have just completed the bugle 2 and it seems to work fine although the volume from one channel is lower than on the other, I have tried to troubleshoot by changing the cables around and switching to another input on the amp but everything verifies issue is in the bugle white channel somewhere. Is this to do with my work or could it be a component problem, granted I am a novice so it may well be my poor craftsmanship.

thanks.

Did you match the components from one channel to another before assembly?  I tested all of my resistors and tried to match each channel as closely as possible.  Mine match up very well.   Also, have you swapped the turntable cables to see if it is the table?  When I first got mine connected, it was off balance.  It ended up being dirty contacts on the cartridge pins.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 22 Mar 2014, 01:14 pm
Hi Oldman45, thanks for the reply. In short, I didn't match up the resistors before soldering and I have switched around the TT cables to make sure that was not the problem.
I haven't had a chance to take it apart again yet, not sure when I will get a chance to be honest, loads of work on the horizon, I'll be on the road for a few months. I decided when I do get a chance to have a look at it I might do some modification so I ordered the cans suggested by Salis Audio. One question though,does anyone know how are they orientated? When I do look into it again I will post my conclusions.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: poty on 23 Mar 2014, 01:44 pm
Jim, I do have a question about the MC amp section.  How does the sound of Bugle 2 MC amp compare the Piccolo?  I just acquired an Audio-Technica AT33EV cart.  It has a .3mv output.  Is the upgrade to the Piccolo worth the cost or will the Bugle 2 be comparable?
Sorry to intervene... Piccolo is not a phono preamp, it is a pre-preamp, like a substitution for SUT, so in this regard the correct way is to use Bugle 2 (MC version) alone or Piccolo - Bugle 2 (MM version) combo. IMHO, the second option is much better. Second IMHO - to use as much of the Piccolo amplification as possible and lower the gain of the Bugle 2 (at least in the first stage, better - to share equally amongst all stages). Third IMHO, upgrade the level to some Hi-End gear like Trumpet.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: oldman45 on 23 Mar 2014, 07:16 pm
Thanks for the response and clarification.  Even though I understood about the Piccolo, I did a bad job of expressing it. 

While I would love to have it, I certainly can't afford the Trumpet.  I've decided to stick with the Bugle 2 for now and see if the Piccolo head amp makes a difference later on.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 29 Jun 2014, 08:36 pm
Did you match the components from one channel to another before assembly?  I tested all of my resistors and tried to match each channel as closely as possible.  Mine match up very well.   Also, have you swapped the turntable cables to see if it is the table?  When I first got mine connected, it was off balance.  It ended up being dirty contacts on the cartridge pins.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=101700)
Hello again,

 I finally found some time where I could get into the bugel 2 again. First of all I did some modifications while I had it out. For practical purposes I decided it would be handier if the inputs and outputs were on the same side so I rehoused it. (It's a shame as I really liked the transparent case). I added a on off switch as well, I found it a bit awkward to have to power it off by pulling out the jack, the wall sockets where it is plugged in is not easily accessible. And finally i added the opamps as suggested by Salis audio at the top of the page.

When I connected it back up again one of the chanels is now silent. I switched the cables to make sure.

I really have little or no experience with electronics just a simplistic understanding of how some stuff works, so I did some readings with a multimetre to check resistance. I found variations between each side but I am not able to follow the circuit well enough to isolate the issue.  So initially with the mulitmetre set to 200k I just tested from each input to each out put and I found a difference of approximately 11. In order to narrow down where the problem lies can some one tell me the best place to test next.I have the  idea, may be mistaken, that if I can find the mid way point of the circuit I can test again and find out which half the problem is, find the mid way point of that section and test again, each time narrowing  down the area where the problem mat be until I find it. The image posted above shows where the initial readings were taken. Thanks for reading and any help would be appreciated.
Niall.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: poty on 30 Jun 2014, 07:11 am
I do not know how the parts in Buggle have been numbered, in the manual there is only one channel shown. I hope the asterisks after the parts indexes are for L or R suffix in the schematic, so...
I'd start with checking if you have soldered the opamps correctly. Check twice, three times - as many times as need to be absolutely sure they are correctly soldered.
Then power on the device, turn the volume at a slightly less than normal listening level and touch with a thin screwdriver or something metallic the following points in both channels (you should touch the metal part of the thing):
1. The output RCA's center pins.
2. R12*.
3. R7*.
4. R1*.
You should have rather loud hum from all the 8 points. The problem is between the point where the hum is not comparable to the working channel and the previous test point.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: ElacTT on 2 Jul 2014, 04:45 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=101700)
Hello again,

 I finally found some time where I could get into the bugel 2 again. First of all I did some modifications while I had it out. For practical purposes I decided it would be handier if the inputs and outputs were on the same side so I rehoused it. (It's a shame as I really liked the transparent case). I added a on off switch as well, I found it a bit awkward to have to power it off by pulling out the jack, the wall sockets where it is plugged in is not easily accessible. And finally i added the opamps as suggested by Salis audio at the top of the page.

When I connected it back up again one of the chanels is now silent. I switched the cables to make sure.

I really have little or no experience with electronics just a simplistic understanding of how some stuff works, so I did some readings with a multimetre to check resistance. I found variations between each side but I am not able to follow the circuit well enough to isolate the issue.  So initially with the mulitmetre set to 200k I just tested from each input to each out put and I found a difference of approximately 11. In order to narrow down where the problem lies can some one tell me the best place to test next.I have the  idea, may be mistaken, that if I can find the mid way point of the circuit I can test again and find out which half the problem is, find the mid way point of that section and test again, each time narrowing  down the area where the problem mat be until I find it. The image posted above shows where the initial readings were taken. Thanks for reading and any help would be appreciated.
Niall.


Just finished my "hot rodded" bugle 2 with a switch and DC jack for case mounting. Before mounting in the case I fired it up and played two albums late into the night. Unplugged the unit for the evening. Plugged the unit in the next morning and nothing, complete silence. The LED was flashing but no sound. I took voltage measurements on pins 4 & 8 of the op amps. One pin showed voltage close to wall wart voltage and the other pin was almost zero. Traced the problem back to the U1 (TLE2426) voltage divider. Take your multi meter and measure in-out-virtual ground. Output/V. Ground should be around 12vdc. Bypass Power circuit with two 9 volt batteries and unit sounds great. Waiting for new TLE2426.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 2 Jul 2014, 12:20 pm
I do not know how the parts in Buggle have been numbered, in the manual there is only one channel shown. I hope the asterisks after the parts indexes are for L or R suffix in the schematic, so...
I'd start with checking if you have soldered the opamps correctly. Check twice, three times - as many times as need to be absolutely sure they are correctly soldered.
Then power on the device, turn the volume at a slightly less than normal listening level and touch with a thin screwdriver or something metallic the following points in both channels (you should touch the metal part of the thing):
1. The output RCA's center pins.
2. R12*.
3. R7*.
4. R1*.
You should have rather loud hum from all the 8 points. The problem is between the point where the hum is not comparable to the working channel and the previous test point.

Hi Poty and thanks for taking the time to look at the problem I have. I have checked the opamps, at least the soldering and it seems to be ok but I suspect the problem lies in one of them.

I did the hum test and what I got was as follows

The RCA center pin left and right - no hum  (did you mean the input RCA?)
R12 (left) mild hum                         R12 (r) hum
R7 (l) hum                                       R7 (r) deep hum
R1 (l) hum                                       R1 (r) Loud hum
RCA input center pin (l) hum           RCA input center pin (r) loud hum

At one stage during testing the left speaker also went off, but I powered off and back on the Bugle and it came on again.

I did some more resistance testing with the multimetre set to 200k and it is as follows

Out put center - R12 (l) 50.6                Output center - R12 (r) 60.7
R12 (l) - R7(l)                 74.6                R12 (r) - R7 (r)              74.6
R12 (l) - R16 (l)              50.6                R12 (r) - R 16 (r)           60.7
R7 (l) - R1 (l)                  74.6                R7 (r) - R1 (r)                74.6

So I am guessing it might be in the opamp U4?

I hope you can read something out of this,

Niall.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: jimdgoulding on 2 Jul 2014, 02:59 pm
I bought one two months ago assembled for $189.00US to include shipping and its fine as good wine in my system.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: poty on 3 Jul 2014, 06:38 am
The RCA center pin left and right - no hum  (did you mean the input RCA?)
I mentioned output RCAs, but I guess you touched the output RCAs in this test. It seems strange for me there is no hum at either points, but lets think it is OK.
R12 (left) mild hum                         R12 (r) hum
The difference starts here. It may be U4 or something else around it or even some solder bridge earlier in the circuit. Taking into account the following reading (I hope you do that when the Bugle was switched off and everything disconnected from the output):
Out put center - R12 (l) 50.6                Output center - R12 (r) 60.7
it seems there is some difference (around 10k) in the last stage. Could you check (measure) the following resistances in both channels: R13, R14, R15 and across the output RCAs?
Just for "not walk twice" on the same circuit could you make one more test: put a short wire between R12s in both cannels (one end on the left channel, the other - on the right) and listen of the outcome? Be very careful not to short out some other circuits.
At one stage during testing the left speaker also went off, but I powered off and back on the Bugle and it came on again.
Could you elaborate more about the incident?
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 3 Jul 2014, 10:22 pm
I mentioned output RCAs, but I guess you touched the output RCAs in this test. It seems strange for me there is no hum at either points, but lets think it is OK.The difference starts here. It may be U4 or something else around it or even some solder bridge earlier in the circuit. Taking into account the following reading (I hope you do that when the Bugle was switched off and everything disconnected from the output):it seems there is some difference (around 10k) in the last stage. Could you check (measure) the following resistances in both channels: R13, R14, R15 and across the output RCAs?
Just for "not walk twice" on the same circuit could you make one more test: put a short wire between R12s in both cannels (one end on the left channel, the other - on the right) and listen of the outcome? Be very careful not to short out some other circuits.Could you elaborate more about the incident?

Solved  :thumb:. I started the diagnostic and found that R15 (l) and (r) were giving different readings. R15 (r) was giving a reading of 1.3 and was not the correct resistor,  I search the spares that came with the kit and there was another 130k with which I replaced the wrong one. But that was not the reason that one channel was down. I discovered one of the wires I used to connect to the RCA to the PCB was not allowing current through it. I had used headphone wire to make the connections between the RCA's and the PCB but there is a insulation that need to be burned off before soldering and on one end of one of the connections the it was not making a contact. Resoldered the faulty connection and it works!

I am delighted as I had not really done anything electronic like this before and was a little nervous modifying the kit in case I made a bollocks of the whole thing.

For me this is one of the most amazing thing about the internet, that some one who has some experience can help some one like me who is a total novice. But its also the fact that it is totally altruistic, people are willing to give their time and knowledge to some one they don't know, and I am incredibly grateful for this. THank you Poty for your help, you solved my problem, also thanks to ElacTT for your post.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: poty on 4 Jul 2014, 06:50 am
I'm glad I was able to help you with the problem. I must say that you were very active and give much information. :) It always helps!
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 4 Jul 2014, 03:35 pm
I'm glad I was able to help you with the problem. I must say that you were very active and give much information. :) It always helps!

Damn, spoke too soon :(. I put on an album this morning and after I turned it over there was some intermittent cracking and popping, it happened a few times 20 or 25 seconds apart so I decided to turn it off. It made quite a loud pop when I turned the bugle off.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: ElacTT on 4 Jul 2014, 11:33 pm
I feel your pain. Received the new "U1" yesterday, and quickly installed and mounted the PCB in the case. Played perfectly. Something about "over night". I had a ground hum this morning. In playing around trying to find the source; the unit started cutting in and out. Source of the ground hum is interconnects to close to turntable wall wart. I thought at first the can op amps may have been loose in the dip 8 sockets because they were a real ......to mount. But the cracking and breakup seems to be caused by the interface of the DC plug and Switchcraft DC jack. Going to be ordering from Mouser soon and will order a new DC plug for the wall wart. Hope this is the problem. In the mean time everything is good if I don't touch it. Plays beautifully. Just played Jerry Garcia and David Grisman on a Mobile Fidelity recording and WOW.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 9 Jul 2014, 06:33 am
I have a few hours today and I am going to open it up again and re check all the solder connections. One thing I noticed, while measuring the resistance, on the right channel the measurement for the higher levels, (from output center pin to input center pin for example 61.7), started in the mid 50's an rose slowly until it stopped at  at 61.7, where as on the left channel it jumped straight to the final reading of 61.7. Is this of any significance?
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 9 Jul 2014, 05:11 pm
 :scratch:The continuing saga, 2 steps forward 1 step back. I found what I thought was a poor soldered wire between the RCA and the circuit board, re soldered the rest rest of the connections as well anyway. Put the bugle 2 back into service and it seemed to run perfectly, well for one album at least. On the second album it started cracking and popping again. It also made a loud pop when I turned off the Bugle.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Speedskater on 9 Jul 2014, 08:47 pm
Some headphone wires (cores) can be extremely difficult to work with! It is not designed to be soldered, and only works with special compression connectors.

I would use something more like Cat3 or Cat5 wires.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 10 Jul 2014, 09:25 am
I will be happy to replace all the headphone wire with cat 3 or 5 wire, but I am off on the road again for work so it will be a few weeks before I am free to work on it again. I will update when I get the chance. Thanks Speedskater.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: hagtech on 13 Jul 2014, 03:22 am
You don't really need to turn the BUGLE2 off.  If you do, then make sure volume control is down. 

jh
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 31 Jul 2014, 02:23 pm
 :lol: The saga continues. I got home a few days ago and knew I would have a few hours today to get inside the Bugle2. Yesterday afternoon I put a record on and it played beautifully, for about 20 mins, then a loud pop just as the last track was starting. It scared the crap out of my 1 yr old who was sitting on my lap. So I put the Bugel2 out on the table today and replaced the headphone cable with cat 3 wire.
I was just mulling over from when the problem began to try figure out where the problem lies. When I first assembled the bugle2 and after some basic trouble shooting it worked fine except for the different volume levels on the left and right channels, but no popping or cracking during use and also not when pulling the power jack from the unit.

I assume I corrected the volume issue when I discovered the wrong resistor in one of the channels and replaced it. The other changes I made were, moved the RCA jacks from  the board and connected them by wire, put an on off switch and replaced the opamps. THe problem should be with one of these changes.
Applying naive logic to the timing of the popping I am guessing that there may be something to do with heat, as the unit warms up through use then something changes, possible a bad joint. While I had the Bugel2 out I inspected (as well as I could) all the joints to the op amps and re soldered anything looking like it might not be good.

Put it all back together and hooked it up. With the volume low I turned the Bugle2 on and off a few times and there was no popping, turned up the volume more and indeed there was only a slight sound. I put a record on, played beautifully till the end of the lp and again another loud pop.  Then it popped loudly when I powered it off. :(

Any suggestions as where to go next would be greatly appreciated, I really don't have the knowledge but I am enjoying learning.

Hi Jim, I would not really have an issue with turning the volume down when powering the Bugle2 off but it is annoying me that it was not necessary prior to the modifications I made. I need to fix the popping during use and I suspect it will stop the popping at turn off aswell.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: Wolfgang III on 6 Aug 2014, 05:31 pm
 :thumb: found the issue, went through each solder and found one that was not connected properly, re soldered it and no more popping and cracking, even when I switch it off.
Thanks everyone who gave input towards getting this resolved.
Title: Re: BUGLE2
Post by: soulman on 15 Aug 2014, 08:14 am
I was wondering if anyone has "upgraded" their Bugle2 with better components and if so what did they use? I'm interested in changing capacitors and maybe resistors initially but for what type? Can you sub any high quality capacitor in for the 3 down either side?

Finally I have moved from a MM cartridge to a low output MC and have heard an increase in noise when no record is played, is this down to the extra gain amplifying electronic noise in the circuit? It also picks up what I think is mobile phone wifi interference, would a metal case solve this?
Title: Q
Post by: ElacTT on 18 Aug 2014, 02:35 am
 I upgraded mine on the initial build. Here is a list of the parts:

Vishay Dale CMF55 resistors in the signal and feedback path
Audyn Plus & Q4 capacitors in the signal path
Nichicon FG Electrolytic capacitors
Cardas RCA jacks
Cardas Quad solder
Mogami hookup wire
A metal case from DIY Audio
Toggle switch
Switchcraft DC jack

The last change (upgrade?) was replacing the voltage divider TLE2426 with the noise reduction TLE2426Y chip and capacitor. I don't believe I was getting a good connection with the DC jack(finally changed connector type) which caused voltage surges and blowing two TLE2426's. So when ordering more, I popped for the chip also. As per Tangentsoft.net I jumped pins 2&8 with capacitor. Can't say for sure if it's better since other changes were made in my system.

As for SQ I can't compare it to the regular build, but I think it sounds fantastic. Kills my old Graham Slee SE II.

I thought the unit was pretty quiet, but not completely silent. However I recently plugged my headphones into my new Bryston BP-17 preamp and could hear quite a bit of "hash". In fact I could hear it during vinyl playback. Hopefully, I can get it worked out.

Edit: Knew I forgot something.  Upgraded LME49720 to TO-99 model (can version) with heatsinks.