AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Peter J on 20 Dec 2015, 11:34 pm
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Ok audio nuts, here we go!
The latest
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133765)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133766)
I've been messing around with potential finishes and mulling over how I'm going to do the things I imagine. Also gathering odds and ends material wise. The wire grill frames aren't going to happen, I'm afraid. 1/8" wire just isn't stiff enough and jumping up to 3/16 it just gets to unwieldy for the ways I have to work it. So now I'm thinking wood frames with wire reinforcements, but need to do some prototyping. On the grills I want something kinda sheer so it doesn't look like conventional grill cloth, think negligée for speakers. This is the first Danny design I built. Yep, it's window screen! Something like this only more refined.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133767)
The paint and wood idea wasn't sitting well with me, and I don't want to have a trendy color like grey, else they look dated ten years from now. I'm leaning toward mahogany main box with chemical patina on copper gilding for the baffles...time consuming but the whole project will be. Here's some of the stuff I'm considering:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133768)
I could gild the legs, but a little of that goes a long way. There's lots of interesting powder coatings...just gives more to think about.
I'll update as things progress. Don't expect lightspeed, Rome wasn't built in a day, you know :wink:
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:drool:
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Negligee for speakers - intriguing indeed. Keep those gears turning, Peter.
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I really like the copper gilding, did you add the paint on top of it?
Are those purple leather couches? We had a set several years ago that look the same color, now we have very modern, low profile light purple couches.
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I really like the copper gilding, did you add the paint on top of it?
Are those purple leather couches? We had a set several years ago that look the same color, now we have very modern, low profile light purple couches.
The other way around on the gilding. One has a red base coat and the other blue with a little red. Size and gilding on top of that, then patina and finally clear to protect it all.
That ottoman does kinda look purple in photo, but is closer to blue. It's a chair and ottoman in our living room where the X-Oticas will live. I'm laying the samples around to get a feel for what looks best.
Received some potential grill material today. Will be messing around with that in the next few days.
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I've been pondering some, messing with the leg/footer design... just not loving the totally tubular look. I thought I'd throw it out to the group and see what y'all think. Ideas and comments encouraged.
Some considerations:
In some cases feet could be wood or at least wood encased.
I'm not a huge fan of cones or spikes, hence the spheres
There's a limit to what I'll spend for someone else to machine metal stuff for me. There's 16 of 'em after all!
I tend towards the unconventional (just in case you haven't noticed)
Here's some brain food
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133941)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133942)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133943)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133944)
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I've been pondering some, messing with the leg/footer design... just not loving the totally tubular look. I thought I'd throw it out to the group and see what y'all think. Ideas and comments encouraged.
Some considerations:
In some cases feet could be wood or at least wood encased.
I'm not a huge fan of cones or spikes, hence the spheres
There's a limit to what I'll spend for someone else to machine metal stuff for me. There's 16 of 'em after all!
I tend towards the unconventional (just in case you haven't noticed)
Here's some brain food
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133943)
Peter,
Of the ones you show, I like the long round leg. How about using carbon fiber tubing for the leg?
(http://i.imgur.com/409Yqoa.jpg)
Another leg style I like is this:
(http://i.imgur.com/NJ2bGgr.jpg)
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Peter, I like the long bar stock version, I may end up borrowing that one!
Merry Christmas,
Ed
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Hmmmm, carbon fiber...tubing rather than rod...gets the wheels cranking.
Here's next go. Wood standoffs, CF tube (sorta), not really fleshed out, still in concept stage. I think I like the standoffs.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134017)
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Hmmmm, carbon fiber...tubing rather than rod...gets the wheels cranking.
Here's next go. Wood standoffs, CF tube (sorta), not really fleshed out, still in concept stage. I think I like the standoffs.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134017)
Carbon Fiber really looks nice with wood. You could also make the stand-offs full length. Angle the top of the CF tube and insert a nice wooden cap (plug).
Or- you could make a wooden leg like one of your other pics, and cover it with twill weave CF cloth/epoxy. I always wanted to do a front baffle in twill weave CF.
(http://i.imgur.com/H13f66f.jpg)
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I kinda tapped into a whole market I didn't really know existed. Seems between drones and cameras there's a boatload of fittings and accessories for CF tubing. I'm liking the idea more and more, thanks for the suggestion.
http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=187
https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/accessories
I've got a roll of woven CF purchased years ago with just that (baffles) in mind. After experimenting with it, it's hard to keep weave straight once saturated with epoxy. Wrapping a 3D shape would make that even harder. I've wondered if using pre-preg would help, but the whole process is time consuming and expensive. I'll likely stay with pre made components for simplicity's sake.
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I kinda tapped into a whole market I didn't really know existed. Seems between drones and cameras there's a boatload of fittings and accessories for CF tubing. I'm liking the idea more and more, thanks for the suggestion.
http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=187
https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/accessories
I've got a roll of woven CF purchased years ago with just that (baffles) in mind. After experimenting with it, it's hard to keep weave straight once saturated with epoxy. Wrapping a 3D shape would make that even harder. I've wondered if using pre-preg would help, but the whole process is time consuming and expensive. I'll likely stay with pre made components for simplicity's sake.
Yeah - there are lots of suppliers of carbon ready-made products. It shouldn't be difficult to find a profile you like. Actually I live 15 min. from Dragonplate, but have never been there!
Laying up your own cloth isn't really that difficult, but like everything else, it takes some practice. If you decide not to use round tubing, and you don't find what you want ready-made, you could use a very thin premade panel glued to your legs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x2-twill-black-carbon-fiber-panel-12-x24-x-02-Cutoff-Panel-730-/111603518696?hash=item19fc168ce8:g:UmUAAOSwstxU52Em (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x2-twill-black-carbon-fiber-panel-12-x24-x-02-Cutoff-Panel-730-/111603518696?hash=item19fc168ce8:g:UmUAAOSwstxU52Em)
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Peter J, You recently suggested to Keith, in his very nice Wedgie Base Build thread, that he could incorporate wrap material into his base finish. In your experience , how well do wraps adhere? ...Do you suggest bare wood be shellacked or primed before wrapping? Should additional adhesive be used? I have not yet worked with wrap material, but am thinking of using some carbon fiber wrap for my upcoming 8" sealed sub build...a single 8" to add support for a pair of desktop speakers.
Oh, and as for supports...I bet you could successfully pull-off some CF wrapped sconce'ish looking supports...two per side of each speaker. At first I was thinking the sconces would not be lit but what the heck...there will be cables/wires attached to the speakers anyway so why not have LED, back-lit sconces (warmish, <3000 kelvin)? Your speakers would not only be works-of-art in the day, but in the night also! 8)
Thanks, Pete
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Peter J, You recently suggested to Keith, in his very nice Wedgie Base Build thread, that he could incorporate wrap material into his base finish. In your experience , how well do wraps adhere? ...Do you suggest bare wood be shellacked or primed before wrapping? Should additional adhesive be used? I have not yet worked with wrap material, but am thinking of using some carbon fiber wrap for my upcoming 8" sealed sub build...a single 8" to add support for a pair of desktop speakers.
Oh, and as for supports...I bet you could successfully pull-off some CF wrapped sconce'ish looking supports...two per side of each speaker. At first I was thinking the sconces would not be lit but what the heck...there will be cables/wires attached to the speakers anyway so why not have LED, back-lit sconces (warmish, <3000 kelvin)? Your speakers would not only be works-of-art in the day, but in the night also! 8)
Thanks, Pete
Pete, although I haven't' seen them used a lot, wraps seem like a really viable way to rapidly finish a variety of things. It works for the most part like old fashioned contact paper, but with the ability to reposition and heat to fit. And by the way, not much heat is needed if you use heat at all...trust me on that. A quick swipe with a hair dryer is all I've found to be necessary.
The adhesive on the wraps I've used seems more than adequate for speakers. I had to remove some after a couple of hours on primed wood and the primer came with it. Which leads me to your next question. The smoothness of the surface that you're applying to is important. I'd seal and sand raw wood...primer, sanding sealer, shellac. It probably doesn't matter much which as long as it's well adhered. The film is thin enough to telegraph irregularities in substrate.
Here's a photo of a Baltic Birch cover I made and wrapped for my computer. I think I probably sealed it with lacquer or shellac. I hope shows up with photo but you can see the plies on the end cap telegraphing through...suffice to say surface prep is important. It would probably be less so with a textured finish like CF. BTW, I think the 3M DiNoc wraps are most realistic I've seen.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134687)
These folks have lots of choices:
https://www.fellers.com/
Here's a photo of a sub I wrapped the sides on with Di Noc
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134688)
I'm big on LEDs and have considered ways to incorporate into speaker design, although I'm not getting a clear picture of what you're suggesting. Any chance you could post a photo or describe in more detail?
Edited to add: Pete, if you haven't found them already, uTube has many videos on wrapping...it's interesting stuff.
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Question for y'all.
I'm considering having these made for supporting the CF legs. Only one problem, I need to order a BIG quantity to make it happen at reasonable cost. They'll fit 25mm (1") tubing and be anodized black. Only difference from drawing will be a 2mm hole centered on base portion.
If I get a bunch of these, is there any interest out there for your own projects? I'll have extras...lots and lots of extras.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134753)
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I'd possibly be interested; they'd be a great way to build height adjustments into some projects.
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Possibly me as well. Any idea about what type if weight they would support and what type of cost are we talking about?
Mike
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Pete, although I haven't' seen them used a lot, wraps seem like a really viable way to rapidly finish a variety of things. It works for the most part like old fashioned contact paper, but with the ability to reposition and heat to fit. And by the way, not much heat is needed if you use heat at all...trust me on that. A quick swipe with a hair dryer is all I've found to be necessary.
The adhesive on the wraps I've used seems more than adequate for speakers. I had to remove some after a couple of hours on primed wood and the primer came with it. Which leads me to your next question. The smoothness of the surface that you're applying to is important. I'd seal and sand raw wood...primer, sanding sealer, shellac. It probably doesn't matter much which as long as it's well adhered. The film is thin enough to telegraph irregularities in substrate.
Here's a photo of a Baltic Birch cover I made and wrapped for my computer. I think I probably sealed it with lacquer or shellac. I hope shows up with photo but you can see the plies on the end cap telegraphing through...suffice to say surface prep is important. It would probably be less so with a textured finish like CF. BTW, I think the 3M DiNoc wraps are most realistic I've seen.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134687)
These folks have lots of choices:
https://www.fellers.com/
Here's a photo of a sub I wrapped the sides on with Di Noc
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134688)
I'm big on LEDs and have considered ways to incorporate into speaker design, although I'm not getting a clear picture of what you're suggesting. Any chance you could post a photo or describe in more detail?
Edited to add: Pete, if you haven't found them already, uTube has many videos on wrapping...it's interesting stuff.
Peter J, very good info you shared on using wraps...will be helpful! After searching for images of sconces, I can see how I need to add further explanation to clarify my suggestion to use "Sconces" as part of legs for speakers. Hmmmm...probably easier for me to send a pic of a mock-up rather than me come up to speed on sketchup. I am "forced" to be attending a conference in Sun Valley the rest of this week so it will be awhile before I can get to a mock-up. Thanks, Pete
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Question for y'all.
I'm considering having these made for supporting the CF legs. Only one problem, I need to order a BIG quantity to make it happen at reasonable cost. They'll fit 25mm (1") tubing and be anodized black. Only difference from drawing will be a 2mm hole centered on base portion.
If I get a bunch of these, is there any interest out there for your own projects? I'll have extras...lots and lots of extras.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=134753)
Hey Peter...
Instead of have the brackets made, maybe you could re-work 25mm rifle scope mounts that are pretty cheap.
Lot of choices: http://www.aliexpress.com/af/rifle%252Bscope%252Bmounts%252B25mm.html?site=glo&g=y&SearchText=rifle+scope+mounts+25mm&isAffiliate=y&initiative_id=SB_20160106061716&shipCountry=US&needQuery=n (http://www.aliexpress.com/af/rifle%252Bscope%252Bmounts%252B25mm.html?site=glo&g=y&SearchText=rifle+scope+mounts+25mm&isAffiliate=y&initiative_id=SB_20160106061716&shipCountry=US&needQuery=n)
(http://i.imgur.com/7DgzPvn.jpg)
How about this one? It fits a 20mm weaver scope rail that could be attached to the speaker cabinet.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/Free-shipping-1-25mm-Ring-Tactical-Laser-Scope-Sight-Weaver-Picatinny-20mm-Rail-Rifle-Mount-S/1914130494.html?spm=2114.10010108.100005.12.ev2Hqq
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Mike, I think weight capacity would be considerable. I added the center hole in base to accommodate either a roll pin driven into captured rod/tube or drill it out for a machine screw. The thru holes will accommodate M3 screws, so assuming all three go through base material and center pin is used, I'll bet shear strength would be upwards of 100 lbs per unit. That coming from my seat-of-my-pants engineering degree :o
Larry, I saw those and similar. I just couldn't find what I envisioned, hence the "make it" mentality. I have a penchant for making the simple complex so this fits right in!
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Peter J, very good info you shared on using wraps...will be helpful! After searching for images of sconces, I can see how I need to add further explanation to clarify my suggestion to use "Sconces" as part of legs for speakers. Hmmmm...probably easier for me to send a pic of a mock-up rather than me come up to speed on sketchup. I am "forced" to be attending a conference in Sun Valley the rest of this week so it will be awhile before I can get to a mock-up. Thanks, Pete
I'm sure you can tough it out in Sun Valley. Are you flying in and out of Boise (my stomping ground)?
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Hi Peter,
Suggestion if I may. No need for front 'legs', at least not for X-Otica Main's. Much more elegant look would be with something like 'Q Acoustics 3050' speakers.
Here's a few photo's and some of my 'editing' (thought it will be quicker on photo but now I see I could easy draw it in SketchUp..)
(http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab79/giokka/3050_Walnut_web__54676.1430105428.1280.1280_zpskhf2seof.jpg) (http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab79/giokka/3050_White_web__70891.1430105427.1280.1280_zpshg4xcut7.jpg)
From back, original & my quick editing:
(http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab79/giokka/q_acoustic_3050_4_zpsvjzohlrg.jpg) (http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab79/giokka/q_acoustic_3050_edit_zpsirt2qwqy.jpg)
Leg's inner sides front to back must be angled following X-Otica's trapezoidal shape. Spheres instead spikes, if that's your preference. Hope you like it.
George
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Peter J, I came in to Sun Valley directly to Haley, through Seattle and hope to leave the same however, I am told 30% of flights are modified due to weather here, so I may go through Boise yet. You are in Boise...nice area!
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Peter J,
Ok, I created a little mock-up of what a "sconce" with LED's COULD look like built-in to your outriggers. Of course, the sconces could be square'ish instead of the rounded ones in my mock-up, if desired. Oh blast, I just remembered I was going to add spheres to the outrigger mock-up for legs, but forgot!
Here is how it might look during the day...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135262)
And might look like this in the evening...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135263)
Hmmmm...I think it would look better with a bit more focused beam aimed vertically up the side.
Pete
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Hi Peter,
Suggestion if I may. No need for front 'legs', at least not for X-Otica Main's. Much more elegant look would be with something like 'Q Acoustics 3050' speakers.
Here's a few photo's and some of my 'editing' (thought it will be quicker on photo but now I see I could easy draw it in SketchUp..)
Leg's inner sides front to back must be angled following X-Otica's trapezoidal shape. Spheres instead spikes, if that's your preference. Hope you like it.
George
Thanks for taking the time to draw that. I considered similar but I'm kinda hung up on symmetry front to back and pretty sure I'm going with the kinda industrial look of the tube leg and clamp arrangement. Who knows though, I may change my mind! Wouldn't be the first time.
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Peter J,
Ok, I created a little mock-up of what a "sconce" with LED's COULD look like built-in to your outriggers. Of course, the sconces could be square'ish instead of the rounded ones in my mock-up, if desired. Oh blast, I just remembered I was going to add spheres to the outrigger mock-up for legs, but forgot!
Here is how it might look during the day...
And might look like this in the evening...
Hmmmm...I think it would look better with a bit more focused beam aimed vertically up the side.
Pete
I'm thinkin...
Probably won't be on these, but some day I'm gonna get LEDs on a speaker.
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I'm gettin' going on the main baffles. Some of this will be rehash of prior projects, but some will be unique to this project or perhaps new technique.
When I built the protos, I made a "master baffle". Sounds almost sinister, huh? Anyway it's a template I could use later if things worked out on Danny's end. And they did!
Here's baffle pattern and first victim
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135481)
I pinned them together
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135482)
It's winter and cold outside. I strongly dislike, possibly hate, the dust MDF makes when machining, so I rigged this up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135483)
Other end
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135485)
So I could do this mostly dust free...woo-hoo!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135486)
I decided to make speakers like layer cake :o
Gluing up the "cake"
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135487)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135488)
Flush trimmed second and third layer individually using the Dust Deputy same as before
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135489)
Some holes next, but I'm going to post in case the sky falls on the internet
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I'm pretty fussy about how I mount drivers, (some would say anal). I've tried t-nuts, wood screws into MDF, nut and bolt and I'm sure some others. Like the look of button head machine screws, but really don't like t-nuts so I've used this several times now with success.
Centering bit for hole location
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135490)
Gettin' holes perpendicular
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135491)
Here comes the crazy part. Who knew you could tap MDF? ( also part of the reason for layer cake)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135492)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135493)
Drip in some Cyanoacrylate (how's that for ostentation?). It's super glue
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135494)
Let it dry overnight, run tap again to clean up. Slow and gentle.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135495)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135499)
Baffles were cut oversize so they were easier to work, but didn't want the BB core on the edge so I trimmed and banded perimeter
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135496)
Round over on the backs using my "mega base" and the vacuum setup from earlier
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135497)
Here's where we stand now
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135498)
Next puzzle will be grill frames, stay tuned!
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It's winter and cold outside. I strongly dislike, possibly hate, the dust MDF makes when machining, so I rigged this up
Studying your picture using Dust Deputy to see how you're pulling in the dust when using the router to cut circles. Can't quite see how you're doing it... are you locating the pick-up port directly under the router when you're cutting circles?
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You do great work Peter , always love your builds :thumb:
-jay
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So the baffles are three layers thick, Baltic Birch sandwiched between two layers of MDF? How thick is each layer?
You have my curiosity up. Why the sandwich?
Mike
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Studying your picture using Dust Deputy to see how you're pulling in the dust when using the router to cut circles. Can't quite see how you're doing it... are you locating the pick-up port directly under the router when you're cutting circles?
You got it. I didn't really want to hack my bench, so I cut hole in the particle board big enough for vac hose, and clamped it all to bench. I had to cut each hole individually but it was worth the time...very little dust...amazingly little. Dust deputy is a jewel.
Here's the before pic, just before routing
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135502)
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So the baffles are three layers thick, Baltic Birch sandwiched between two layers of MDF? How thick is each layer?
You have my curiosity up. Why the sandwich?
Mike
Yes 2 MDF layers are 1/2", BB is 12mm so net is just under 1 1/2"
Why? Because I like to make the simple complex :?
But seriously, a few reasons. The assembly is lighter and has more structural integrity. The thing that originally put me onto doing things this way was years ago when I built George Short's Northcreek Rhythms. If I remember correctly, his contention was that having dissimilar materials with different resonance characteristics in an assembly would sort of short circuit the vibrational energy. My seat-of-pants engineering degree likes the notion and I assign some credibility as a result. Is it a benefit in this open baffle design? Don't honestly know the answer to that. But I doubt it hurts anything and has that cachet of high level bullshit that's so favored in this industry. Besides, I get to use the vacuum press, which never fails to be a thrill. I get giddy thinkin' about it! Is that weird?
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Yes 2 MDF layers are 1/2", BB is 12mm so net is just under 1 1/2"
Why? Because I like to make the simple complex :?
But seriously, a few reasons. The assembly is lighter and has more structural integrity. The thing that originally put me onto doing things this way was years ago when I built George Short's Northcreek Rhythms. If I remember correctly, his contention was that having dissimilar materials with different resonance characteristics in an assembly would sort of short circuit the vibrational energy. My seat-of-pants engineering degree likes the notion and I assign some credibility as a result. Is it a benefit in this open baffle design? Don't honestly know the answer to that. But I doubt it hurts anything and has that cachet of high level bullshit that's so favored in this industry. Besides, I get to use the vacuum press, which never fails to be a thrill. I get giddy thinkin' about it! Is that weird?
When I built my new audio building the salesman from the window company new what I was building it for. He suggested using dissimilar glass (different thicknesses) in the double pane windows, the reason was the same. Different vibration patterns stop more of the sound from getting to the other side. The neat thing is it works both ways.
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Constrained layer, now I understand
Mike
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Is there any concern over the different woods expanding/contracting at different rates ? I suppose if everything is sealed up perfectly it shouldn't be an issue but it seems to me this same issue has been disucssed previously :scratch:
jay
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years ago when I built George Short's Northcreek Rhythms
Built pair of those also with Oak veneer over Mdf/Baltic birch and then when my boss let me have a damaged sheet of Japanese Tamo Ash
I rebuilt them using just Baltic Birch. Did not sound any different to me. Still regret selling them because they were the most beautiful
speakers I have ever built, but they could not compete with the Wedgies/Wedge base sonically.
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I'm not big on T-nuts either. But that looks like a lot of work... :scratch:
Have you tried Hurricane or Barbed?
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Is there any concern over the different woods expanding/contracting at different rates ? I suppose if everything is sealed up perfectly it shouldn't be an issue but it seems to me this same issue has been disucssed previously :scratch:
jay
If there was solid lumber in the mix, I'd be more concerned. The Rhythms are about 15 years old and if the light is just right, I can sometimes glimpse the glue line under the veneer. So From a structural standpoint, I really don't have concerns. Visually, I wanted the glue line on face rather than edge. It will be harder to see close to the baffle roundover and behind grill the majority of the time.
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I'm not big on T-nuts either. But that looks like a lot of work... :scratch:
Have you tried Hurricane or Barbed?
I have used various inserts over the years. My concern in this case would be visibility because they would have to be face mounted and the driver flange doesn't cover a lot.
I imagine I spent a couple of hours additional time on driver mounting holes over just using tapping screws. Speed is why I chucked the tap into drill. I suppose the time spent on this project doesn't concern me much because it's for me and I enjoy it. I also like exploring new techniques. Trust me, my OCD hasn't really surfaced yet! It all started with me wanting a particular look on mounting screw heads and then figuring out how to make that work.
FWIW, I've used the Superglue technique on holes for self tapping screws as well. What I like is how it consolidates and hardens MDF fibers. Two or three in and outs on raw MDF and there's just not much grab left. Try it!
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Built pair of those also with Oak veneer over Mdf/Baltic birch and then when my boss let me have a damaged sheet of Japanese Tamo Ash
I rebuilt them using just Baltic Birch. Did not sound any different to me. Still regret selling them because they were the most beautiful
speakers I have ever built, but they could not compete with the Wedgies/Wedge base sonically.
This will be my first foray into open baffle, I'm excited. What sort of work do you do, Keith? Sounds like you might be in a cabinet shop.
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Peter, As always, your work in impeccable!
I don't like pronged T-nuts in MDF either, but I do like Hurricane nuts.
http://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-10-32-hurricane-nuts-50-pcs--081-1082 (http://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-10-32-hurricane-nuts-50-pcs--081-1082). In your case where they will show on the back side, you could counter bore the heads with a forstner bit so they would be flush with the surface. They could be pre-painted black or you could use a gasket hole punch to make stick on covers using the 3M carbon fiber look vinyl you have used in the past.
I have use these on MDF speaker stands with good results: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/fasteners/Threaded-Inserts/thread-inserts-for-wood/m6-10-insert-for-soft-wood-flanged-900610-20?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CNu8yJrZuMoCFYqPHwodFJEGAg
Your idea of tapping the MDF hardened with Super Glue is a good one. I carry the method a little further with something I learned in boat building to hold screws in soft woods. Over drill the hole, and fill it with epoxy. You then have a very hard plug to hold the screws, either tapped hole machine screws or wood/tapping screws.
Another method I have had good luck with in MDF is using plastic screw anchors with tapping/wood screws.
-
http://www.audiocircle.com/thumbnails/user/52624/2968/45591_thumbnail.jpeg
I have found inserts to work quite well with reasonable labor. The threaded, super glued MDF however is a really cool idea.
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Got some photos of the leg base prototype. Black headed bolt would look better, methinks, but overall design looks promising.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135550)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135551)
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Wickedly good info in your build thread(s)! Thanks for documenting and sharing! I look forward to seeing your finished product!
Pete
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Wickedly good info in your build thread(s)! Thanks for documenting and sharing! I look forward to seeing your finished product!
Pete
X2
Always great ideas in your threads Peter, thanks.
Best,
Ed
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As much as the audio geek world eschews grills, I sorta like them. Don't get me wrong, I like staring at naked drivers as much as the next geek, but in the real world with guests, curious fingers and non-naked-speaker loving significant others, some compromise is needed.
From my perspective, most grills look a lot alike. Black cloth stretched over a frame looks OK, but I'm shooting for something a little different that still embodies the pragmatic aspects but doesn't follow the conventional esthetic. Overthink? Probably, but I like pushing boundaries, so why not push a little here?
So here's my foray into what I'll call OCD sheer and sexy floating grills.
These were test mules to prove concept and explore some options
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135999)
Frame stock en masse
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136000)
Staple channel close up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136001)
Mitering Sled
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136002)
The cut parts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136003)
And the glue. With the accelerator, this stuff goes off almost instantly. Perfect for fussy stuff like this
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136004)
Ended up with these
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136005)
Added cross pieces
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136006)
And corner blocks
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136007)
Ended up here
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136008)
Drilled 1/8" holes in the corners of frames, centered the grills where I want them and drill a pilot in baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136009)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136010)
Drilled 1/4" hole 7/16" deep
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136011)
Epoxy and 1/4" x 3/8" N52 magnets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136012)
End result
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136013)
Because upper and lower grills gotta be aligned to satisfy my OCD, a little wax paper to keep things from gettin' stuck together
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136014)
Drill out 1/8" hole in frame to 5/16", retape grills in position, add epoxy from top. Guarantees alignment just so...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136016)
End up with this after epoxy dries
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136017)
And now for the final touch so they don't look so blocky
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136018)
My "keep it from chattering" jig
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136019)
And here's the result
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136020)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136021)
Waiting for some epoxy filler for the holes, then they'll get sprayed in black and covered in no-see-up net like first photo
More later...
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Peter J -- that's ridiculously awesome!
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I really like it Peter, the best of both worlds. Do you think the raised grill going to cause any issues with the drivers dispersing the sound?
Greg
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I really like it Peter, the best of both worlds. Do you think the raised grill going to cause any issues with the drivers dispersing the sound?
Greg
Thanks Greg, it's a little different than what I originally wanted (wire frame), but I think it will look interesting when all is said and done. My reasoning concerning reflections is that a conventional grill for these surface mounted drivers needs to be 1/2" thick for clearance. Total height on these from baffle to top of frame is just a bit more @ 9/16" so I doubt it will be any worse than that.
One of the reasons I made two grills was to accommodate taking the top one off easily if I'm critically listening. The tweeter would be most susceptible to refraction but I needed the center brace to beef up overall stiffness with so little structure. I played around with a center diamond shape brace around tweeter and even considered a circle, but in the end went with what you see for simplicity and also to be consistent with bottom grill.
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PeterJ, what type of drill press are you using there? I have this one http://www.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-4525404-Attachment-4-Inch-8-Inch/dp/B000JCIMEA/ref=sr_1_4?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1453898636&sr=1-4&keywords=drill+press (http://www.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-4525404-Attachment-4-Inch-8-Inch/dp/B000JCIMEA/ref=sr_1_4?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1453898636&sr=1-4&keywords=drill+press). Yours looks a whole lot sturdier.
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PeterJ, what type of drill press are you using there? I have this one http://www.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-4525404-Attachment-4-Inch-8-Inch/dp/B000JCIMEA/ref=sr_1_4?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1453898636&sr=1-4&keywords=drill+press (http://www.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-4525404-Attachment-4-Inch-8-Inch/dp/B000JCIMEA/ref=sr_1_4?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1453898636&sr=1-4&keywords=drill+press). Yours looks a whole lot sturdier.
I had to go look and see! I've had it for years, but it gets little use. Seen more action lately than in the three years prior. It's a General. Looks like they've added a handle on the side which might be handy.
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-Instruments-36-37/dp/B00004T82L
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I am slack jawed in stunned amazement, Peter.
You do beautiful work.
:notworthy:
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More futzing with the minutia while I wait for epoxy to cure.
I started to wonder what the grills would look like with a faux fastener in the corner so I hacked my test mule for a real world look. Appreciate your thoughts on this one, I'm on the fence. Bear in mind the finished grill frame will be mo betta looking and have radiused edge. Might tie in with the sort of industrial theme on the leg mounts.
Copper rivet might look nice with the copper dust cap on upper drivers
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136212)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136213)
Or button head screws
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136214)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136215)
Of course there's always the option of nothing, which was my original intent. But then I got to thinkin....
I messed around with the sample leg clamps to explore possibilities of different ways to use them. The base has clearance holes for metric M3 screws which would take nuts on the opposite end. Looks like anything 1"(25mm) diameter would be workable. That's a walnut dowel on the right. In my experimenting I discovered a happy accident. The clearance hole for the M3 screw is just the right size for running a 6-32 tap which opens up all kinds of options for mounting and different looks. My mind's eye sees these on amp stands or racks, maybe adornment on DIY electronics boxes....many possibilities.
On right is M3 nut and bolt, left is #6 button head machine screw threaded into base. Sharpie is there for scale
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136219)
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I like the copper and I do think it would stand out and look good with the dust cap. IMO the black makes it look like your trying to hide it so at that point why put it on?
I think the machine screw head would look good on the grill in copper and also the same copper on the black leg would look great. All just my opinion of course but you did ask :lol:
Greg.
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I like the copper and I do think it would stand out and look good with the dust cap. IMO the black makes it look like your trying to hide it so at that point why put it on?
I think the machine screw head would look good on the grill in copper and also the same copper on the black leg would look great. All just my opinion of course but you did ask :lol:
Greg.
Thanks for your thoughts, Greg, I really am soliciting them and like input from a different perspective...don't be shy y'all!
Kinda funny when I think about it. Bury the magnets to conceal the fastening mechanism and then add a fake...hmmm. In the end, I decided against either, seemed too busy, despite the copper tie-in. There'll be plenty going on, I probably don't need to add yet more detail, but my mind just doesn't go there without some coaxing.
Got the frames filled, primed and lacquered.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136421)
And the baffles sealed and ready for gilding
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136422)
FWIW, you did spark another idea, though. I was planning on black fasteners for drivers, but then got to wondering what copper might look like. Yeah, yeah, I know that's a rivet, just imagine it's a screw and tell me what you think.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136423)
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Peter,
The copper dust cap/phase plug stands out by itself. I think adding copper fasteners would make it too busy and detract from the effect. Less is more ...
Mike
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I like it, a lot.
-
Peter,
The copper dust cap/phase plug stands out by itself. I think adding copper fasteners would make it too busy and detract from the effect. Less is more ...
Mike
I'm with Mike on this one, but I think using them on the legs would be a really good way to tie everything together.
-
Looking great peter.
I agree with Gregg and Mike....
If you are thinking of going with the fake fastners on the grills, I like the copper idea, it wouldn't be over kill but I think it would add a little "extra" to the appearence.
With regards to the driver mounting screws, I too think they'd be a bit too much... I had actually considered doing the same thing myself with the NX-Otticas but again, felt it was just too much and took away from the "pop" of the NQ's copper phase plug
jay
-
Thanks for your thoughts, Greg, I really am soliciting them and like input from a different perspective...don't be shy y'all!
Kinda funny when I think about it. Bury the magnets to conceal the fastening mechanism and then add a fake...hmmm. In the end, I decided against either, seemed too busy, despite the copper tie-in. There'll be plenty going on, I probably don't need to add yet more detail, but my mind just doesn't go there without some coaxing.
Got the frames filled, primed and lacquered.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136421)
I didn't say it but I agree nothing is best, you have enough going on with the look without adding things that make the speakers too busy...
And the baffles sealed and ready for gilding
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136422)
FWIW, you did spark another idea, though. I was planning on black fasteners for drivers, but then got to wondering what copper might look like. Yeah, yeah, I know that's a rivet, just imagine it's a screw and tell me what you think.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=136423)
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Going backwards to go forward....arrghhhhh!
Haven't been able to work on these much lately but decided to get the grills done and out of the way. Shortest staples I had were 3/16" and the grills were 1/4". Subtract the depth of the staple groove and a margin for ohshit and I knew it was close. Shot a few staples and looked at the front...good to go. As I was installing the screen, I somehow broke the cross braces loose.
I thought, "I can fix it", so finished stapling and trimming the first one...face down, of course. Flipped it over and heart sank, staple tips barely poking through my nice grills!
So I went back to drawing board and redesigned to avoid previous boondoggles. Ordered shorter staples, thickened up the grill frames by 1/16", drilled and epoxied steel left over from wire grill experiment. Also took the opportunity to make the bottom grill mid rail corner blocks a little smaller since they don't need to house magnets and looked kinda bulky. I had misplaced the top grill cross braces so I fixed too. Mo betta the second time around! So I'm back to where I was 2 or 3 weeks ago.
I was finally able to upload photos by using Internet Explorer instead of Edge. Can anybody shed some light there? I've been using Edge since I switched computers a few weeks ago without issue until now.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137661)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137662)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137663)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137664)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137666)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137667)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137668)
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This is one of the things that makes build threads so valuable -- I always appreciate it when someone in the midst of a masterful build details a misstep. It's a bit heartening, as it seems like my own builds have been nothing but....
Thank you for bringing us along, every step of the way. There is quite an audience awaiting your final presentation. :thumb:
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Peter,
Even though reading the above is painful ( I can relateas I've made many blunders as well), I did have a good laugh when I read "I can fix it".... SPICOLI !!! :lol:
jay
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Peter,
I've been using internet explorer for years, then I purchased a new computer with windows 8.1 and all hell broke loose. Finally to save my sanity I switched to google chrome. I have read that IE is going away and won't be supported for much longer. I realize this is opposite of what you wrote but thought it relevant with the added info. I'm posting below.
With that said, My 25 year old daughter who has been filling out applications to get a new job, has had nightmares using google chrome on some applications and has had to switch back to internet explorer to get them to work.
So, it seems like it has to do with compatibility with the site your trying to work with rather than the program itself :scratch:.
By the way, your frames look absolutely amazing, very impressive indeed :thumb: Can't wait to see what you finally decide to do with the details.
Greg
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Peter,
FWIW, you did spark another idea, though. I was planning on black fasteners for drivers, but then got to wondering what copper might look like. Yeah, yeah, I know that's a rivet, just imagine it's a screw and tell me what you think.
I'd be tempted to try those copper fasteners... they sure go well with the center cone.
Can definitely relate to your grill saga... had a room divider project this summer with overlapping slats in the field that were stapled together... same proud staple tip horror when I flipped the panel over.
Big favor to ask... can you say a few words on how you handle the corners of your grill cloth? I've tried many approaches of pleats, folds, cutting, etc and have never had much success. The fronts look OK, but the back side is usually too thick (lessening the power of the magnets) and looks amateurish at best.
-
Jay - Spicoli...had to reach back in my way-back memory. Welcome back Cotter, no? Oops, I accessed the wrong memory bank on this one. Google tells me it was Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
Cody - I'll shoot some photos of the grill fabric installation. The bunching at corners is always a problem and an ongoing quest of mine to deal with. It's part of why I like to recess the back in some way, gives a place for that fabric gob to live. Thinner fabric is easier and this screen is really thin...probably the easiest I've dealt with in some ways, but it's not really stretchy like fabric. It has some give, but not what I'd call forgiving in the same way as fabric.
FWIW, the right magnets has been an ongoing research project too. Currently I'm high on the N52 1/4" Neos in various lengths. Because of the small diameter, they have pinpoint magnetic pull for positioning. They seemed almost too strong at first in this configuration, but once I get a layer of felt between the baffle and grill, it's just about right. Snaps into position without futzing but not so hard a pull that its difficult to remove. Best resource I've found:
http://www.magnet4less.com/
I think I'll forgo the copper screws for this one because the front baffle will be plenty if it goes like my minds eye sees it. Hope to get a little more experimenting in today. The copper screw idea led me to an interesting copper plating resource though. They were quick to respond to my queries...I hope to use their kit someday.
http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/plug-n-plate-brush-plating-kits.html
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Here's another great source for magnets, been buying them here for years.
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/
-
Here's another great source for magnets, been buying them here for years.
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/
Plus they have interesting newsletters!
-
Spicoli...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5cneCgNA9U
:thumb:
-
Peter ...I was wondering what material you are using to cover the
grills? It sort of looks like 'Charcoal Fiberglass Insect Screen'? I will
be fabricating grills for my X-series speakers soon and am weighing
something like you are using versus stretching some Milliskin Matte
(Charcoal) (http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/10491) spandex across the frames (like the DIY projector screen
crowd uses to make acoustically transparent screens). Thanks to the
good shared information on this forum, I had already implanted the
magnets into the speaker enclosures prior to applying the DuraTex
finish :)
-
Plus they have interesting newsletters!
Yes they do! Some great ideas and always interesting what they come up with.
-
Peter ...I was wondering what material you are using to cover the
grills? It sort of looks like 'Charcoal Fiberglass Insect Screen'? I will
be fabricating grills for my X-series speakers soon and am weighing
something like you are using versus stretching some Milliskin Matte
(Charcoal) (http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/10491) spandex across the frames (like the DIY projector screen
crowd uses to make acoustically transparent screens). Thanks to the
good shared information on this forum, I had already implanted the
magnets into the speaker enclosures prior to applying the DuraTex
finish :)
No-See-UM netting for tents and the like.
http://www.seattlefabrics.com/mesh.html#No-See-UM Mosquito Netting
I ordered both the black and slate gray, but the gray just doesn't look right with chosen colors on this build.. Maybe on some other project...like when I build a tent!
-
Here's another great source for magnets, been buying them here for years.
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/
A coule more I have used :
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/?gclid=CL3lmcXNicsCFQusaQodv3IOLA (thanks ron)
and for those up here in Canada
http://zigmystermagnets.com/
jay
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Off we go on the grill saga
First I put a few staples along one side pulling just a smidgen of tension end to end.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137745)
Switch to other side, again pulling just enough tension to pull wrinkles out. This screen is a little different than cloth, but principle is the same.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137746)
Do same on ends
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137747)
Then to corners. I kind of peak the fabric in my fingers. These close ups could have been better if I'd set the camera for more depth of field but...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137748)
I sort of slide stapler down the ridge and towards center and shoot 1 staple diagonally
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137749)
Then a couple more at right angles and perhaps another diagonal. I'm trying to squash and flatten all those folds,
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137750)
I didn't get a specific photo but after I do the corners I staple around the perimeter coming as close as I can to a continuous line of staples. This step seems particularly needed for this screen...its stiff compared to fabric. The staple slot has a convenient by product as it pulls a little more tension into fabric when pushing stapler into groove. I leave fabric so I can get a handle on it then trim with new razor blade. I skate it along parallel to surface
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137751)
This moves right along with sharp blade
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137757)
Flip it over and NO STAPLES pokin' through...woo-hoo!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137758)
Add some felt on the standoffs
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137759)
And we have liftoff!...or something. Success anyway, glad to have this behind me.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137760)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137761)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137762)
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Very nice looking grills Peter, I do my corners almost exactly the same. I haven't tried cutting the extra with a blade thou, seems like you can get a more even cut compared to using small scissors.
I really like the look, somewhere between no grills and hiding the drivers.
I think you should let the copper plug ride alone and then use copper bolts on your legs, super clean, not busy in detail and it all get pulled together.
Very nice indeed!
-
Necely done Peter, I also try and use the same , or similar , technique but mine never turn out so pretty on the rear side. I hadn't used a staple groove previouisly either... I'll have to try that.
I posted this once before in another thread , but it may be useful to some as it's where I got the corner idea from. Some of the info is relavent for grills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1H3_uv2uE
jay
-
Peter, many thanks for sharing your approach to handling the grills... very useful and informative as always.
-
I futzed around with some more patinas on the copper leaf for the baffles. I'm pretty set for color on the mahogany, so it's finding something to go with it while keeping the complexity to a minimum. If you look closely, there's at least a couple subtle variations on each panel. I always feel a little like a mad scientist when I mess with this stuff...probably kindles some childhood memory...
I'll think I'll be finishing these in a low sheen like you see on samples. Same samples with different lighting. See any you like?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137837)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137838)
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O.K. Peter, you asked.
I like both of the pieces next to the wood, I like the pattern on the left piece the best (not sure about the long red line, maybe a few shorter red lines going in different directions) I think the color on the right piece matches the wood better, at least on my screen.
The second picture makes everything more green, again on my screen.
Hope I'm helping and not making it harder.
-
Well Peter,
At least I know what's the perfect amplifier for your speakers: Gerd Sauermann's (http://www.sauermann-audio.eu/en/galerie.html) mono blocks.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137853)
And here's the link to the artist's behind the look of Gerd's front plate(s) - perhaps you'll find their work inspiring: Susanne and Mirko Gersak (http://www.gersak-bilder-skulpturen.de/en/metal-wall-art.html)
Brgds,
George
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Thanks for the input, Greg. Always appreciate having a view from another vantage point.
George, that is some cool stuff. Messing with unusual finishes is certainly intriguing to me...and apparently at least one other! Someday I'd like to try doing something similar, but should get these done first, methinks.
Me being me, I had another idea on how to do the gilding and patina. I think I like this pattern best of all so far and may have reached patina nirvana...time will tell. If there's interest, I'll detail that process when I get there...someday...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138639)
I did get a few licks in on the sides of mains. I was kinda dreading this because of the inset baffle and angles. As much as I puzzled out the details in SketchUp, I was still figuring out a few things on the fly. Here I'm routing the dados for the shelf braces and tops & bottoms.
Routing jig
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138641)
Once routed, jig gave me a consistent witness line to align with scribe marks
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138642)
And got to here
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138643)
Shelf dados cut
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138644)
Routed 3/8" roundover on both edges, then onto table saw to cut rear rabbet for grill
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138645)
And same for front baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138647)
Because I kinda got ahead of myself, I had to do some head scratching to get the shelf brace width right on the money to fit already made baffles. If doing again, I think it would be easier to build cabs first, then baffles. Hindsight and all that...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138648)
A quick mock to keep me motivated
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138649)
Next up will be shelf braces...with a twist.
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Peter, looks very good. Over my ability, but looks very good!
"Me being me, I had another idea on how to do the gilding and patina. I think I like this pattern best of all so far and may have reached patina nirvana...time will tell. If there's interest, I'll detail that process when I get there...someday..."
Yes, please!
-
I've been thinking how to run internal wiring in a neat and clean way. Rather than drilling holes in shelf braces I'm wondering if clipping the corner like drawing will work OK. I'd probably route visible wire in top section in convoluted loom.
My question; For those who've built open baffle speakers before and were faced with similar, do you see any drawbacks to doing it this way?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138694)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138695)
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I can't really see how that would detract from the brace's stability any more than drilling a hole as close to the corner as possible.
-
I've done that same thing before to run wiring and I think it works really well. The wire is (right in) the corner so it is easier to staple cleanly or however your'e going to fasten it.
By the way, I think your last gilding and patina piece is perfect to me and yes, I would really like to know the process :thumb:
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I've considered doing the same thing with subs and the NX-Otticas instead of the holes. Being the holes are already in the program, that is what we've gone with but I don't see what you are suggesting being an issue whatsoever.
In the top section of my OB7's, I drilled holes between the drivers ( in the baffle) then cut slots around the permimiter of the driver to routte the cables up t othe next driver (thanks Neil T ). Neil has pics of this in his build thread of his OB7's
jay
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OK sports fans, here's an update on my (slow) progress.
I got to thinkin' about leg placement, weight distribution, stability and the meaning of life :o. OK, we'll leave the latter for a different time, but the rest is pertinent. The planned legs don't project past front of speaker. In fact, nearly the entire weight of baffle filled with drivers is in front of legs with no back on cabinet or other means to counter balance that out. Thus, my seat-of-pants engineering says the whole affair will weight biased to the front and possibly unstable if standing straight up.
I could tilt the speakers back to compensate, but that wouldn't be fitting for this build, 'cuz it's all about how I can over think things and add complexity to the overall project, right? I weighed the baffle and drivers which came out to about 25 lbs. I considered strapping a pipe to the top of speaker sticking out rearward a couple of feet and then attaching a downrigger weight to that...too ugly. Could use guy wires like a mast on sailboat, but opined it would make the whole affair to hard to move.
So I landed on the idea of adding lead ballast at rear and bottom of box. And so it goes...
Here's the template for top, bottom and center braces.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139563)
I cut out cores of 1/2 Baltic Birch
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139574)
Routed slots. No pics but after this I glued 1/4" MDF on one side
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139565)
Filled compartments with #9 lead shot
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139566)
Poured epoxy resin over shot to make one big gob
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139567)
Tops and mid braces
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139568)
Bottoms got extra dose. After epoxy cured I laminated another layer of 1/4" MDF to opposite side so it's all encased
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139569)
Flush trimmed the last layer, drilled pocket holes to attach baffle later
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139570)
Because I decided to make them thicker than originally planned for more lead capacity, I cut rabbets so I didn't have to redo dados in sides
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139571)
Assembled and ready for next step...someday...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139572)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139573)
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Nicely done Peter, well thought out :thumb:
Kind of surprised that the baffle with drivers is only 25lbs..
But you know, they do make some pretty cool downrigger weights these days
(http://www.cabelas.com/assets/cms/img/additional_info/buyers_guides/ross_dr_shk275x170.jpg)
or, maybe with a built in "disco ball"
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81oSr7ikaDL._SX522_.jpg)
Might have been pretty slick :lol:
jay
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Nicely done Peter, well thought out :thumb:
Kind of surprised that the baffle with drivers is only 25lbs..
But you know, they do make some pretty cool downrigger weights these days
(http://www.cabelas.com/assets/cms/img/additional_info/buyers_guides/ross_dr_shk275x170.jpg)
or, maybe with a built in "disco ball"
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81oSr7ikaDL._SX522_.jpg)
Might have been pretty slick :lol:
jay
The 25lbs is close, I think I actually calculated 26lbs. Lighter because it's only half that nasty MDF
It's done now, but in hindsight I could've mounted a whole downrigger with adjustable arm and covered all the possibilities.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139598)
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Hiya all. Not much progress to report, but have been thinkin' about some aspects. Busy times with work and all. Maybe I'll get some time in this weekend.
One thing I'm considering is external crossovers. Not really about functionality but perhaps more about eyeball and doing something a little different. I've got this idea to house crossover in some kind of project box and integrate that into an amp stand (Ncore) and run balanced interconnects from preamp. Amp and crossover would live in close proximity to speaker.
Any comments on how that will or won't work? Also there's some cool looking aluminum boxes on PE, any reason not to use an aluminum box to house crossover? Actual crossover would be mounted on non-conductive material inside box.
What say you, geeks?
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Putting the crossover external to the speaker removes it from the vibration environment. Always a good thing.
Aluminum is good for shielding and heat dissipation for components.
My Ninja Nobel crossover networks for my N2X's are external in a gloss black box with the plexiglass lid. Fun to see the guts for me.
I think it is a good thing to do.
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This thread is so inspiring!
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Hi again sports fans. No, I didn't fall off the planet or get hit by a car, just been up to my eyeballs in alligators and not much time to work on this.
I have gotten a few things done and made the decision to use outboard crossovers. I've got some cool looking cases coming, amp cases actually, which will house crossovers. More on that later.
Glued some meat on the back to sort of contain the grill and give me a place to mount the connectors, two sets on account of outboard crossovers.
Wanted to see how many clamps would fit in a small area.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142889)
So I could end up with this at the bottom
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142890)
And this on top
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142891)
Glued phenolic cabinet liner on top and bottom to tie everything together and keep seams from telegraphing through veneer on top
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142892)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142893)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142894)
I had the legs all figured out...I thought.
Cut a dowel to fit inside of carbon fiber tube
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142895)
Bevel cut after epoxying in tube, but wasn't loving how it looked
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142896)
So I mocked up some alternatives. Would appreciate your feedback on these. I think I have a fave, but as evidenced by this whole thread, things can change!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142897)
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I like the rounded black end. Blends better than the silver and looks more finished than the beveled cuts.
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I like the black or silver, but it really depends on the rest of the design and color. Everything needs to work together, so silver, brass, copper or whatever needs to all work together as a whole. Unless you can work the red in somewhere else I don't see that as a good option. The round black looks good and the silver looks good but as I recall you were looking at brass screws at some point, so maybe the end needs to be brass on the legs if you are still considering brass screws.
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I prefer the rounded black end, but I don't know what the rest of the cabinet will look like when it is finished.
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I like the bevel, but it needs to be finished with a cap, either from CF sheet or a thin piece of Black Walnut. Even a piece of veneer glued on, or maybe CF vinyl wrap would finish it off. BTW/ I like your dowel lathe set-up :thumb:
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Bevel, for sure.
Neil
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Honestly on the the 3 design elements :
1 - Copper / Brass thumbtack on the grill way too "1962" trust me. Plus it does not go with your flow using carbon fiber legs at all. Your adding work, and calling attention to something that honestly makes it look more "Garage" built in my opinion.
2 - I am not 100% sure if these are planned for real world production or simply a concept for maybe providing flat packs or something, however you can get grill frames punched out 20 at a time from single sheets of whatever .25" material you want with all the beveling, cross bracing etc... on a CNC machine for probably 20 bucks a pair which would save you a ton of time, materials, and money unless you love the self inflicted pain doing details like this!
It's a grill so I see it as 100% industrial function for protection so I would never listen with them anyway.
By the way I do know of a mass production place super professional that can do the grill frames with state of the art CNC for any possible design you want punched out, and they will do pretty small quantities, with magnets, and all installed already, and yes they are easy to talk to, and located in the U.S. I think they will even put the fabric as a finished product, but that would cost more obviously.
3 - The leg concept is interesting, and I get going for the "Design" element of it, but I will make a serious suggestion here. First you are putting a ton of stress on those bolts holding it to the cabinet regardless of the clamp mechanism, so if somebody tilts this thing, or pulls its weight across the floor I think you risk some type of cracking, or damage at a point in the future. I would highly suggest simply cutting out full "Outriggers" that cross the bottom of the entire cabinet either from metal, or even wood could work, and this will take all the stress off, and give you plenty of surface area to bolt, and place wherever you like into the the speaker. Gravity will do the rest. And then use the "Legs" attached the to the top of the outrigger simply as an ornament with a single fancy clamp you came up with just for audio jewelry to give the design element your looking for, and ultimately save a ton of assembly time.
Then you don't need to try and get the shear strength of bolts like the M3 you mentioned, or anything into the tube itself for alignment, and keeping it from slipping, you just put your tube thru the clamp tighten up so it looks cool, but really has no a critical function at least that your battling with. Otherwise your putting a lot of bank on those tubes to do it all, with clamps holding a heavy speaker in the lateral plain basically "Floating". Again this can be eliminated with a simple cheap, and very effective fix using outriggers like in the photo to pull it off, and you never have to worry about the engineering on this part. Plus it still looks just as cool, and maybe even more robust than before.
Yes I have built many speakers :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142927)
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I like the bevel, but it needs to be finished with a cap, either from CF sheet or a thin piece of Black Walnut. Even a piece of veneer glued on, or maybe CF vinyl wrap would finish it off. BTW/ I like your dowel lathe set-up :thumb:
Is your mandolin a Gibson?
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Honestly on the the 3 design elements :
1 - Copper / Brass thumbtack on the grill way too "1962" trust me. Plus it does not go with your flow using carbon fiber legs at all. Your adding work, and calling attention to something that honestly makes it look more "Garage" built in my opinion.
2 - I am not 100% sure if these are planned for real world production or simply a concept for maybe providing flat packs or something, however you can get grill frames punched out 20 at a time from single sheets of whatever .25" material you want with all the beveling, cross bracing etc... on a CNC machine for probably 20 bucks a pair which would save you a ton of time, materials, and money unless you love the self inflicted pain doing details like this!
It's a grill so I see it as 100% industrial function for protection so I would never listen with them anyway.
By the way I do know of a mass production place super professional that can do the grill frames with state of the art CNC for any possible design you want punched out, and they will do pretty small quantities, with magnets, and all installed already, and yes they are easy to talk to, and located in the U.S. I think they will even put the fabric as a finished product, but that would cost more obviously.
3 - The leg concept is interesting, and I get going for the "Design" element of it, but I will make a serious suggestion here. First you are putting a ton of stress on those bolts holding it to the cabinet regardless of the clamp mechanism, so if somebody tilts this thing, or pulls its weight across the floor I think you risk some type of cracking, or damage at a point in the future. I would highly suggest simply cutting out full "Outriggers" that cross the bottom of the entire cabinet either from metal, or even wood could work, and this will take all the stress off, and give you plenty of surface area to bolt, and place wherever you like into the the speaker. Gravity will do the rest. And then use the "Legs" attached the to the top of the outrigger simply as an ornament with a single fancy clamp you came up with just for audio jewelry to give the design element your looking for, and ultimately save a ton of assembly time.
Then you don't need to try and get the shear strength of bolts like the M3 you mentioned, or anything into the tube itself for alignment, and keeping it from slipping, you just put your tube thru the clamp tighten up so it looks cool, but really has no a critical function at least that your battling with. Otherwise your putting a lot of bank on those tubes to do it all, with clamps holding a heavy speaker in the lateral plain basically "Floating". Again this can be eliminated with a simple cheap, and very effective fix using outriggers like in the photo to pull it off, and you never have to worry about the engineering on this part. Plus it still looks just as cool, and maybe even more robust than before.
Yes I have built many speakers :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142927)
Thanks for your input. Let me see if I can address your concerns.
1. Agree with you on Copper rivet. Idea was abandoned, grills are complete.
2.There is no aspiration to mass produce this version. It's a one-of-a-kind that won't get repeated. My motivation is to push at the boundaries of my knowledge and try things I haven't seen/done before. The thread is here to make those explorations public and perhaps entertain or have someone take a little something away for their own project. If it was just about getting 'er done, I'd be listening to them now...eh?
The grills are an example of that, it's a design exercise and won't be for everyone, but then it only has to please me. CNC would be fun, and it's on my bucket list to own, but that's a long and ever changing list...time will tell.
3. You raise a valid concern. I may fly by the seat of my pants, but I didn't get this far along without vetting ideas for functionality. The clamp design was partially borrowed from an existing design that's supporting significant load. Clamping force is more than you might guess and shear strength of mounting fastener is augmented by friction provided by base/substrate interface.
To test your assertion, I half assed a demonstration which I'll show some photos of here. It's not super scientific, but I'll put my stock in real world scenarios rather than conjecture most any day.
Bases were imagined to work in several ways. A 3mm pilot was drilled in center to facilitate what I envisioned. I drilled the hole to 3/16" and countersunk for #8 flathead screw. Corner holes were tapped for #6 machine screws. Machine screws were engaging threads I base by 3/16" of so. In practice I'd use longer, but it's what I had handy.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142950)
I clamped a piece of same sandwich used in speaker side in vice
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142953)
The bottom insert for tubing is a barbed push in affair, so I bolted a piece of ply to it
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142954)
Here's a 25 lb. bag of shot and about 7 lb. in the jar
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142955)
No movement whatsoever. The whole setup is kinda precarious, but I was tired...that's my excuse. As an acid test, I hung my body weight on it but it wanted to rotate or pull the threaded insert out of tubing, but no slippage of clamp. Had I been reading that last statement in a thread I imagine I'd be dubious, but I dare say if I were to rig this up a little better, I think I could stand on a pair of them...no kidding.
I do this for fun, and like most fun, there are moments of woo-hoo! and the inevitable oh, shit!. It's mostly about building the thing and in this case I've put my trust in Danny's design so I can let my imagination run on the construction part. It's my thing, ya know, to puzzle through the minutia.
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I'm taking a little time to get some licks in on the subs. I want to do veneering and gilding on both subs and mains at same time.
What I'm gunning for, so you don't have to back peddle for a reminder
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143690)
Glued up all the "sandwiches" and made rabbets and dados and sawdust, oh my...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143691)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143692)
Mostly ready for assembly
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143693)
Dry run
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143694)
Before I assemble these, I'm hoping those that have built them can give me their thoughts on wiring holes through baffles and shelf so I can drill them now and not look back with the coulda-woulda-shouldas. Connection to amp will be a Speakon, but looking for clean and least visible scheme to drivers. Nothing teaches like experience and I'm hoping y'all that have experience with them can share your horror stories insights. I'm imagining running up the side behind the No Rez and putting terminals on drivers at 9:00 and 3:00.
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Sub parts looking good Peter .
Typically, I've done the wiring on one side of the subs (mirrored so that each sub has the wiring running up the inside).. The last set we sent out, I used holes in each side of the baffle and rear brace to keep wiring shorter... if you go up both sides, you don't need to run back and forth to get back to the passthrough hoels.
I've been using a 15/32 bit (if you go up both sides, you could go smaller as you'll be passing less wire through each hole), the baffle holes end up in the lower "cavity" (assuming the lower driver is facing rearwards) a. I keep the holes right near the edge so that the no rez covers up any wiring, you can tuck it right in the inner corner and it is not visible until yo upop it out to make the connection t othe driver/servo coils.
With the current set of triples I'm building for myself, I'm going to run all 3 drivers facing forward and see just how rearward weighted they end up.... eliminates the need for holes in the baffle and might look cool too
jay
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Thanks Jay, that helps. I don't know if you use the Speakons, but do you see any problem putting them right through the side of cabinet just behind plane of center baffle? Or perhaps dead center, modify baffle to accommodate so wire could be run on either side saving thru the baffle holes up higher? Just thinkin' out loud on that last one...
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I do mine like Jay is describing: holes through each side of the divider behind the baffle and one on each side through the baffle below the divider (if bottom driver is facing rearward). I also run the wire along the edges so they are hidden by the NoRez as much as possible. Also, I use wire clamps like on the back of the Wedgies to keep everything tidy. However, I use a 3/8" bit.
I orient the top driver with the coils angled towards the corners rather than straight across. Gives me a little more room to get my hands in.
Mike
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Thanks for the confirmation, Mike, that sounds like a good plan.
I (think I) remember something about the wiring of the servos and drivers. Servos paralleled and drivers in series or something like that. There was a drawing of a Super Vee showing connections. Does that ring a bell with anyone?
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Thanks for the confirmation, Mike, that sounds like a good plan.
I (think I) remember something about the wiring of the servos and drivers. Servos paralleled and drivers in series or something like that. There was a drawing of a Super Vee showing connections. Does that ring a bell with anyone?
I can send you those drawings if you like.
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LOL, yeah, facing rearward.... that's what I meant ....long day !
Peter, I don't see an issue with using the spectron connecotr like that. If you use holes, you can use a little silicone to fill the holes after wirign, plus if you keep them tight to the conrers, they really aren't obvious once the no rez is in place.
When guys have been buying the flat packs with front and rear grills, I've ben recommending they put the female spectron connector ust in front of the rear grill rabbet.
jay
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That'd be great Danny. I gotta talk to you about another thing too... you going to be around tomorrow?
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Just thought of something else. I ran a 5/8" radius on backside of driver opening. Is that adequate? Would bigger be better?
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Just thought of something else. I ran a 5/8" radius on backside of driver opening. Is that adequate? Would bigger be better?
It'll be fine Peter, not even necessary with the long wave lengths.
I always do them too, can't hurt
jay
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That'd be great Danny. I gotta talk to you about another thing too... you going to be around tomorrow?
That's fine.
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Just thought of something else. I ran a 5/8" radius on backside of driver opening. Is that adequate? Would bigger be better?
That's fine too.
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Is your mandolin a Gibson?
The avatar photo is David Bromberg, and his mandolin is a Gibson,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bromberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bromberg)
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The avatar photo is David Bromberg, and his mandolin is a Gibson,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bromberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bromberg)
Guess I haven't seen a picture of David lately!
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The saga continues...mistakes and all!
Glued up bass cabs.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144253)
Belt and suspenders
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144254)
Y'all might remember I glued thin phenolic sheets to top and bottom on mains. This does two things; finishes bottom nicely because I won't veneer it, also keeps top glue joints from telegraphing through veneer. Rather than clamp, I had this idea to flip upside down on some Styrofoam and weight the top, figuring the foam would support evenly and save me clamping. Makes sense, no?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144255)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144256)
After drying I was surprised to find that those little ridges you see in the Styrofoam had mirror images on the phenolic...fail.
I removed the furrowed stuff and went back to what I know works
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144257)
Moving on to my next learning experience. Needed to make the front applied panel pattern so I could sandwich laminate the like the mains. These will get gilded before installation so I wanted to be precise on lineup with cabinet. Thought I could do it with pocket screws, but what you can't see is it slit the narrow strips of plywood on sides...fail.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144258)
Next tried to use cabinet as pattern for routing this MDF. Just to hard to control with handheld router...fail
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144259)
The bone pile
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144260)
So decided to glue up frame on cabinet, just enough glue to hold it together until I can get I laminated. Clamps are just lightly screwed down to keel joints in plane
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144261)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144262)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144263)
After vacuum bagging, one routed, one not
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144264)
Banding perimeter with 1/4" MDF
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144265)
Trimmed and ready for more nasty MDF sawdust
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144266)
Routed rabbets for grills
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144267)
Jig for making big radius smaller. Right is before, left is after
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144268)
Square off corners with corner chisel
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144269)
Routed the radius on outer perimeter, drilled and glued grill magnets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144270)
Tomorrow will shoot some primer and start to get these ready to gild.
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I love these build threads.
Thanks, Peter, and thanks to everyone who posts their build threads with pictures and notes.
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Thanks Peter for the very well documented post with plenty of good pictures,
I love pictures, because a picture is worth a thousand words.
Guy 13
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Here's a few more pics for the photo junkies. And just so you know, I count myself as one of 'em.
The distributor I get a lot of supplies from has a wood finishing guru on staff and he recommended this stuff to me. In the past I've used automotive 2k primer for it's filling capability, but it's really spendy and not specifically designed for wood. This is about half the $$ and one of it's listed strengths is edge filling MDF. I cleared over it for the grills and used it for priming on all the black parts you see. Works really well and lays down really nicely.
Kind of repetitive work and dirty (because it's black), but worth the effort to get that monolithic look in the end product. Prime, fill imperfections, sand, shoot more primer, sand again and then more primer. These and the main baffles will get topcoated in red which will be the undercoat for gilding. You'll see when I get to that point.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144410)
Here they are after final coat of Clawlock. There's an MDF seam right in the middle of the roundover and the sandwich lamination on the inside of frame. Not bad, huh?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144414)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144411)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144412)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144413)
Next up more grills or maybe veneer...
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Peter, the product info says it's avaiable in white or black and can be tinted :)
https://www.mlcampbell.com/products/searchdetail?search=W3701116
and the data sheet
http://www.richelieu.com/documents/docsGr/117/043/2/1170432/1308252.pdf
I'd like to try this stuff, funny, we were just alking to our painter over the weekend about a better ,more suitable primer.
Your cabinets are coming right along Peter, always so impressed reading your build threds :thumb:
jay
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I'm going to check out this primer also.
Thanks Peter
Mike
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The primer looks good enough to be a final top coat! I love the smooth charcoal-color eggshell-sheen look, almost Hotrod Black.
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Peter, the product info says it's avaiable in white or black and can be tinted :)
https://www.mlcampbell.com/products/searchdetail?search=W3701116
and the data sheet
http://www.richelieu.com/documents/docsGr/117/043/2/1170432/1308252.pdf
I'd like to try this stuff, funny, we were just alking to our painter over the weekend about a better ,more suitable primer.
Your cabinets are coming right along Peter, always so impressed reading your build threds :thumb:
jay
ML Campbell is Canadian too, so there's that...
I recently shot the white color on some bookcases for a client before installation. Painter liked it as base coating, although it was all plywood and hardwood. I avoid working MDF as much as I can, but it has advantages so I live with it on some things. Since I'm using this as color under clear too, I didn't want to tint.
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I'm going to check out this primer also.
Thanks Peter
Mike
Most of my finishing stuff, lacquer, stain, etc. comes from them. They're sort of geared towards the furniture/cabinet industry.
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The primer looks good enough to be a final top coat! I love the smooth charcoal-color eggshell-sheen look, almost Hotrod Black.
I've thought the same thing. On the grills, I used satin sheen lacquer topcoat which brightens it up, but someday I'll try it with low sheen to see if it would come closer to the Hotrod black. I have this idea to do Hotrod black speakers with white and/or red pinstripes...someday.
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Beautiful work as always Peter. That finish looks great, how did you apply it?
Best,
Ed
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Beautiful work as always Peter. That finish looks great, how did you apply it?
Best,
Ed
You know Ed, a couple of years ago, I thought I'd give a cheapo gun a try and sort of reserve my "better" guns for finer work.
I bought this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-pc-professional-automotive-hvlp-air-spray-gun-kit-60239.html
The cup lid weirdly swelled when I left thinner in it so I replaced it with this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Devilbiss-StartingLine-20-oz-Metal-Gravity-Feed-Spray-Paint-Gun-Cup-with-Lid-/141893598787?hash=item2109847e43:g:m~MAAOSwa-dWsJRS&item=141893598787&vxp=mtr
From what I can gather, Devilbiss Starting Line and these are very similar, perhaps the same. But even with the cup, I'm in it for less than the Devilbiss.
It's not a Sata or Iwata. Not a precision tool you hand down to your kids, but for what I paid, it functions well enough and I don't feel so compelled to be fussy about taking care of a $400 spray gun. The little gun I haven't found lots of uses for, although I did shoot some gilding size with it.
If you're in the market, I bought one of these at HF too, you need something to hang gravity feed guns on when filling. I screwed it to a chunk of MDF. I can post photos if you like.
http://www.harborfreight.com/gravity-feed-spray-gun-stand-34958.html
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This installment is a double header....grill frames and veneer. Wonders never cease, eh?
These grills are a little different than the front of mains because they inset into box. The side, top and back grills will all be similar.
Raw material
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144863)
Because it's a beefier frame, I can add a dowel to locate center bar...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144864)
Starting to take shape...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144865)
And it all fits!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144866)
Grills got set aside for now. There's more to do, but I'll wait until I have all the other grills made to finish.
I tried Heat Lock a some years ago, but since having vacuum bag, what little veneer I needed to do outside the bag, I did with good ol' Titebond I. This would be doable but I think almost harder in bag...it's not good for everything.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144867)
Using sheets of paper backed veneer because I didn't want to mess with all the bookmatching if I used raw. So I let someone else do it and I'll live with the veneer line. It'll mostly disappear in the stain. Lined up bookmatch with center of cabinet so it looks pretty
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144868)
After ironing and before trimming
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144869)
I drilled Speakon holes earlier so just had to trim holes and drill pilots for mounting
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144870)
Looking more and more like drawing...which it should, I guess
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144871)
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My God ! ! !
Peter you're good, they look nice,
anxious to see the finish product.
Quite a large shop you've got there.
Please, keep posting.
Guy 13
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Peter,
Looking good
I have found paperbacked veneer and an iron work well together however, raw wood veneer and an iron don't to want to play together very well. No matter how tight I have the seam when the veneer is ironed down, once it cools the pieces shrink just enough to show the seam.
Mike
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Whoa, I am a rank amateur compared to you NICE WORK!! :bowdown: :bowdown:
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Peter,
Looking good
I have found paperbacked veneer and an iron work well together however, raw wood veneer and an iron don't to want to play together very well. No matter how tight I have the seam when the veneer is ironed down, once it cools the pieces shrink just enough to show the seam.
Mike
I've never tried it, but I can see how the moisture in the glue could do that. I have laminated veneer to veneer and then glued to substrate...I wonder if that would change things? Was it something you could conceal later in the finishing process?
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Thanks all, My neighbor called the whole thing my "Magnum Opus". I take on these involved builds knowing it will take me a while, but it occasionally seems like a never-ending story!
And Guy, I'll keep on keeping on until they're done or I croak or the whole lot of you looses interest. I've got the photo shrinking and posting process down pat! Plenty more when we get to gilding and patina....and then there's the finishing process. I'm planning on pulling out the stops and making that mahogany proud.
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Ooo, mahogany, my favorite wood. I have a fair number of British-made pieces of furniture with mahogany veneer. The Brits loved it in the first half of the 20th Century, apparently. The Infinity Servo-Statics were available in mahogany, but they finished them too glossy for my taste. A nice low-gloss sheen on mahogany is more to my liking.
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Ooo, mahogany, my favorite wood. I have a fair number of British-made pieces of furniture with mahogany veneer. The Brits loved it in the first half of the 20th Century, apparently. The Infinity Servo-Statics were available in mahogany, but they finished them too glossy for my taste. A nice low-gloss sheen on mahogany is more to my liking.
There was a time when Honduran Mahogany was considered the shizzle. Unfortunately the harvesting was unregulated and other than poached stuff isn't available anymore...a sad thing.
The stuff available today is similar in grain structure, but color and texture is somewhat different. What I'm using in most likely Khaya from Africa, although several variants are marketed as mahogany.
None the less, I'm shooting for that deep reddish brown patina of those old furniture pieces. Haven't decided on sheen yet, was thinking really low sheen as it's popular now, but a more satiny look would be more timeless I suspect.
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The latest chapter in the Magnum Opus forever build along. The end's in sight!...well, not really but it's incrementally closer. Should be listening by Christmas...
My placement jig for leg standoffs on subs. Using unthreaded base for drill guide
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145240)
Now they're holey
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145241)
Epoxying in ABS leg caps
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145242)
By their nature, the caps are not exactly the same size as tubing, nor are they precisely centered. Can't have that, so I fixed it. Before and after
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145243)
Used this to get 'em flush
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145244)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145245)
Then some sanding and buffing
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145246)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145247)
Stuff in a threaded insert
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145248)
Before and after buffing
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145249)
They're ready when I get to assembly...someday...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145250)
Veneering the mains
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145251)
Once sides were done, I needed to fill in across the back. Masked and spread some Heat Lock
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145252)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145253)
And ironed on the wee pieces
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145254)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145255)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145256)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145257)
Here's my cutout templates for top and side windows
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145258)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145259)
And now these sides are holey, too
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145260)
Here's an unexpected bonus. Sides have a little fiddleback figure at the bookmatch...this should highlight when I get to finishing...around Halloween...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145261)
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Slowly but surely your'e getting there.
All the pictures makes the agony sweeter,
agony to see the finish product that is.
Thanks for the up-date.
Guy 13
If you finish right before Christmas,
that would be a nice gift for us AudioCircle members
and for you, of course.
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Peter, I've built more than just a couple enclosures for just a bunch of projects over the years.
You are the master I know I'll never become........awesome!
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Peter, I've built more than just a couple enclosures for just a bunch of projects over the years.
You are the master I know I'll never become........awesome!
Thanks for the compliment. Creating and solving problems along with working wood have been passions for much of my 60 years. If I had more time and money, I'd apply same to metal working and, and, and... the list never ends. Interestingly, I think I've better learned to balance my life by kinda strolling through stuff like this as it protracts over months. My tendencies run toward obsession which would have me up till midnight forcing myself to finish.
I'm sometimes too curious (and occasionally ambitious) for my own good. These projects make little sense from a "dollar return on investment" standpoint, but the enjoyment that comes along for the ride is really what I treasure anyway, so I don't really give to much thought to it.
But that might be more than you want to know. I'd insert an emoticon, but Edge browser evidently thinks that's too much to ask.
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Thanks for the compliment. Creating and solving problems along with working wood have been passions for much of my 60 years. If I had more time and money, I'd apply same to metal working and, and, and... the list never ends. Interestingly, I think I've better learned to balance my life by kinda strolling through stuff like this as it protracts over months. My tendencies run toward obsession which would have me up till midnight forcing myself to finish.
I'm sometimes too curious (and occasionally ambitious) for my own good. These projects make little sense from a "dollar return on investment" standpoint, but the enjoyment that comes along for the ride is really what I treasure anyway, so I don't really give to much thought to it.
that might be more than you want to know. I'd insert an emoticon, but Edge browser evidently thinks that's too much to ask.
Peter, I just wrote a long and somewhat personal response to your very open post and some how when I tried to save it as a word doc on my computer to finish later, well you know........ So, You and I are a lot a like from what you wrote. I make things out of my head when there is a need "or sometimes not". They don't belong on AC so no one here will see them but I take on a challenge when I need to. One project recently was my Mom needing to keep her feet above her heart "long story" so I made a foot lift with an actuator and an IR remote that does just that. I built it into a square post made out of aluminum and oak plywood. She can put her feet on a pillowed platform and lift it up or down when she needs to. Another recent project was a kite retriever for my cousin who has an enormous kite he takes to the ocean in Oregon each year. Sometimes he can't bring it down manually because the wind is too strong. I used a 24v DC motor and the joy stick from a wheel chair and he could let out or bring in his kite no matter what the conditions and at any speed he wanted. Needless to say a lot of people took notice.
You are a man of my own heart and I appreciate you bringing your ideas and projects to the community (especially with pictures) and letting us all tag along.
Peter, keep your imagination, incredible skills and your passion out where we can observe, learn and appreciate all that you do.
Greg
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+1 on what Greg said. :thumb:
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Soooooo, ideas and pictures you say?
Today I made not one single particle of sawdust, but did spend some of the day forking around with ideas for amp boxes. For whatever reason, I have a hard time loving the mental image of the plate amps on their backs with wires sticking up sitting next to the Magnum Opuses (Opusi?) in all their imagined glory. I'm thinkin' something more refined, but am limited by the amp itself.
This is where I'm currently headed, perhaps with some changes, but generally kinda the same...how's that for vague? Input and power wiring would enter/exit bottom, output and sensing wires will exit side via female Speakon connectors much like the subs themselves. Grills would be magnetic at least on front for access, amp would screw to flange you see inside.
Easier to draw than make me thinks....something more to ponder.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145695)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145696)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145697)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145698)
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Soooooo, ideas and pictures you say?
Today I made not one a single particle of sawdust, but did spend some of the day forking around with ideas for amp boxes. For whatever reason, I have a hard time loving the mental image of the plate amps on their backs with wires sticking up sitting next to the Magnum Opuses (Opusi?) in all their imagined glory. I'm thinkin' something more refined, but am limited by the amp itself.
This is where I'm currently headed, perhaps with some changes, but generally kinda the same...how's that for vague? Input and power wiring would enter/exit bottom, output and sensing wires will exit side via female Speakon connectors much like the subs themselves. Grills would be magnetic at least on front for access, amp would screw to flange you see inside.
Easier to draw than make me thinks....something more to ponder.
I like it. Would there be sufficient clearance for a really thick power cord to run underneath?
I would definitely be interested in purchasing better amp boxes. Mine are lying flat on the floor behind the speakers with power and input cables sticking upwards. That's not pretty.
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I like it. Would there be sufficient clearance for a really thick power cord to run underneath?
I would definitely be interested in purchasing better amp boxes. Mine are lying flat on the floor behind the speakers with power and input cables sticking upwards. That's not pretty.
I'm not sure about that, only about 1 1/2" of space from front of amp to back of grill as drawn. I'm figuring on making my own cords for this very reason. Will use right angle plugs.
https://www.parts-express.com/marinco-320iec15-iec-power-connector-15a-120v--110-400
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/marinco-15ra-right-angle-adapter-p-1626?osCsid=67b35cee24fa6969204d2b83cc1e48b2
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LOVE it! Looks like the Wavestream Kinetics V8 amplifier that George Cardas has in his home system. Each mono amp has a line of four tubes sticking out horizontally from either side, looking like a V-8 engine, hence it's name.
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Love it!
Using Pangea 9awg cable with my HX800 amps and they are big! :o
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Really cool idea Peter, I like them a lot. I guess I don't mind my amps in the boxes Ruben built, definitely a conversation piece.
Your grills look great and I like the idea of them standing up, kind of like my ipad mini in its stand up case.
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Futzed around with the details and think I got where I want to be on the amp house
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146818)
And to complete the ensemble, matching amp bases
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146819)
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Got some more grillin' done, but then had to take time out and go to Michigan and play Monopoly with the grandsons...I schooled 'em.
Gees, who designed this grill laden thing? Didn't Motley Crue do a song about this...Grills, Grills, Grills. Or something like that...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146820)
Not putting corner gussets in like the front so I reinforced corners with a spline. Routed them flush after glue dried
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146821)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146822)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146823)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146824)
More magnets. I bought 200 magnets and haven't counted but have used a good chunk of 'em. Of course there was that front grill snafu...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146825)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146826)
Primed and cleared. Glad that's behind me. What was I thinkin'?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146827)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146828)
Moving on to prepping for copper gilding. What's up with the red, you're asking. This is the undercoat color. It'll peek through copper here and there after gilding...you'll see when we get there. Sub fronts will get the same treatment
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146829)
Before and after scuffing so gild size has some tooth
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146830)
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Peter, that's quite a nice, large
and well equipped wood working shop you got there ! :thumb:
Nice work, I'm anxious to see the finish product.
Guy 13
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Peter, that's quite a nice, large
and well equipped wood working shop you got there ! :thumb:
Nice work, I'm anxious to see the finish product.
Guy 13
Don't hold your breath, Guy, but you'll see them completed sooner or later.
The shop was a dream of mine for many years. For a long time I worked in a small garage at another house and when we moved to this one, the driveway was my workspace because I had equipment stored in the garage. It was a few years before I got this built. Occasionally I have to pinch myself and remember how my dream became reality. I'm grateful for the space but, of course, there's plans for it that have yet to come.
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Futzed around with the details and think I got where I want to be on the amp house
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146818)
And to complete the ensemble, matching amp bases
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146819)
I like them Peter, very nice 8)
I don't envy you dealing with all those grills, think I'd go crazy.
Got some more grillin' done, but then had to take time out and go to Michigan and play Monopoly with the grandsons...I schooled 'em.
Congrats on that, enjoy it while you can, the day will come.... :lol:
jay
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I like them Peter, very nice 8)
I don't envy you dealing with all those grills, think I'd go crazy.
Congrats on that, enjoy it while you can, the day will come.... :lol:
jay
Well, those same boys absolutely kick my ass when it comes to anything involving a conventional (I think) game controller for the Xbox. I am so clueless I'm certain I appear to be a doddering old fool. Now, mind you, they do have some appreciation of my skills, having built some small things together. I'm kind of speechless, though, when queried about the possilbity of building a car or house or some such. Should be easy, right? Maybe take a weekend at best.
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Well, those same boys absolutely kick my ass when it comes to anything involving a conventional (I think) game controller for the Xbox. I am so clueless I'm certain I appear to be a doddering old fool. Now, mind you, they do have some appreciation of my skills, having built some small things together. I'm kind of speechless, though, when gueried about the possilbity of building a car or house or some such. Should be easy, right? Maybe take a weekend at best.
A house isn't so hard. I've built a few of them. Granted I was considerably younger then so would probably take a couple of weekends now :lol:.
X-Box, what's that?? :o
Mike
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A house isn't so hard. I've built a few of them. Granted I was considerably younger then so would probably take a couple of weekends now :lol:.
X-Box, what's that?? :o
Mike
Two weekends? I'm afraid that's just too long, Mike. By then something else will have captured their fancy. What could you do in two hours?
An Xbox is a time-wasting box with lights and buttons and, I'm told, supposed to entertain a person...kinda like audio, eh?
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I get a little nervous when it's time to build crossovers, so before I build the actual boards I wanted to post a photo and make sure I'm not committing some electronic sin I'll regret later. I'm particularly concerned about inductor orientation and proximity. This will be mounted on the rubber standoffs you see and resistors, bypass cap and wiring will be underneath. Does it look copacetic?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146996)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146997)
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That doesn't look too bad, but I'd twist the one on the left a little so that if it were to roll it would roll into or away from the large inductor that is mounted flat.
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That doesn't look too bad, but I'd twist the one on the left a little so that if it were to roll it would roll into or away from the large inductor that is mounted flat.
Thanks Danny, that was my biggest concern. For whatever reason it only came into focus after I laid it all out and drilled the holes. Fortunately I can modify my template and then get it right on the final boards.
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It was a dark and stormy night...no, wait....lost myself for a second.
The Magnum Opus saga continues. You sure can't say I hurried through this one. I can hear them in my head, but then I hear lots of things in my head...perhaps fodder for another thread.
I almost forgot about to grill storage on the side of cabinet, soooo
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147416)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147417)
Final assembly on crossovers
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147418)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147419)
And now what you've all been waiting for...or not. Gilding, Peter J style. Not quite like the masters.
Here's the size and what I used to spray it. Mohawk is the cheap stuff, fine for this gig. Other stuff is for special occasions...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147420)
Best place I've found for copper leaf, they sell on eBay. Got that cheapo gilder's brush from them too.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147421)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147423)
Masked off where I didn't want to spray the size. plug made it easier. Gilding sticks wherever size is
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147425)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147435)
Sprayed size. Size is, as near as I can tell, varnish. Maybe other things in it, but primarily quick drying varnish. If you're trying this, you gotta wait until the size gets just the right tackiness. Too soon and the gilding will become saturated and consequently won't be affected by chemical patina-ing. Wait too long and, well, it won't stick. And by the way this is quick size, the not quick stuff stays tacky for looooong time, like days.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147424)
Gilding progress. I'm purposely being semi careless and tearing sheets and applying in a haphazard way. You'll see why
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147426)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147427)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147428)
Kinda aggressively brushed excess off to expose the red in a random way.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147429)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147430)
The hairy baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147431)
After pouncing with brush
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147432)
After brushing like before
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147433)
Some of the carnage...it's messy. Oh, and can't be breezy either, I sometimes hold my breath so I don't mess things up, but on this kind of thing, it's specifically not fussy.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147434)
I always wondered about this, are dimentions what you use if you have dementia?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147422)
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WOW Peter thanks a lot for the well documented built.
Lots of good pictures tell everything about your talent and work of art.
I admire people that can do special things.
Thanks again.
Guy 13
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Wow :thumb:
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When I see someone capable of making such a masterpiece and I start thinking about doing it myself, I just want to cry.
Fabulous work and ideas!!!
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When I see someone capable of making such a masterpiece and I start thinking about doing it myself, I just want to cry.
Fabulous work and ideas!!!
Oh man, don't cry, I'll start feeling responsible :wink:
It's supposed to be inspirational!
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This week's installment is about the age old dilemma of designers vs. builders. But I'm both in this case, so I'll go stare in the mirror and swear at the designer for his apparent callousness in not considering how this will get built. Problem is, I liked the looks so I didn't bring it up to him earlier and just pressed on...
Amp boxes went as planned mostly...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147808)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147809)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147810)
Then came the grills. I wrestled with how to do this and even started down one path only to stop midstream and hatch another game plan.
Dados...,many dados. Easier to cut them in bigger blanks and cut down later. Look closely at miter gauge fence and you'll spot my jig for getting consistent spacing
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147811)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147812)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147813)
Was gonna do the whole thing in MDF. Thought I'd make a pattern and rout all eighty :o, yes, 80 bars/slats. Then the winds of change blew in and I nixed the MDF in favor of Poplar. At least I had the setup figured out so not too bad in the overall scope of the forever build.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147814)
Glued up some blanks
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147816)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147824)
To end up with these
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147817)
Then trimmed to dimension
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147818)
To end up with these...is there an echo in here?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147819)
Then lots of slicing to finish with these. Well over 100 figuring some would be wonky...and they were
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147820)
Then comes the tedium, but I gotta say I'm jazzed with the result, even did a little dance. Is that TMI?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147821)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147822)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147823)
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Wow cool :thumb:
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Just incredible Peter, wow.
Best,
Ed
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Peter that's a lot of glueing and work,
but the result will worth the work.
More pictures please.
Guy 13
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Wow cool :thumb:
ditto !
Very impressive as always Peter :beer:
jay
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Inching closer to the finish line. If I were competing in a speaker build-off, I think I can safely say I'd win the DLBF award. (Dead Last But Finished)
Got the amp cage grills finished
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148327)
Magnets retain them, gotta love those Neo magnets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148328)
Moving on to amp bases. Want to get all the mahogany stuff done so I can finish at same time
My initial idea
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148329)
Changed things just a little. I Heatlocked some veneer onto Baltic birch for perimeter frame.
Gluing up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148330)
Installed threaded inserts for balls
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148331)
Now for the inserts. I laminated 1/4" Baltic Birch to 1/2" MDF so it's like the rest of the madness. But then I thought " hmmm, needs some fairy dust to give it that high-end cachet".
Glued up fairy dust boxes to attach to bottom of inserts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148332)
After gluing onto bottom of insert, I dumped two different sizes of lead shot into them. This will provide differential spherical damping effect
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148333)
Then a careful dose of potent white sand collected from the beaches of western New Zealand. This stuff is spendy but worth it. It will drain away the stresses of the lamination and enhance spatial perception
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148334)
Look closely at the above photo. See that brown fluffy looking stuff? That's the actual fairy dust. It's a special plant that I grow and dry right here in the basement and crush with a magic mortar and pestle. This is what it looks like before drying
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148335)
Once filled with the special ingredients, I entombed it with the vacuum press
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148336)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148337)
Flushed trimmed and sanded the "dust box". The inserts will be finished like the grills and be supported on silicone rubber glazing tape attached to ledge on frame. Amps will be happy.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148338)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148339)
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Peter,
one more time, you have impressed me !
Your work in pictures is captivating me
and I'm always surprised with what you come up with.
Guy 13
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I'm with you, Peter. A system should be beautiful looking as well as beautiful sounding. Great work!
-
Really sharp Peter, as always though your fairy dust plant looks suspiciously like Swiss Chard :thumb:
Mike
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The slats look really cool.
It looks like somethings been eating your fairy dust plant, is that what fairies eat?
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Really sharp Peter, as always though your fairy dust plant looks suspiciously like Swiss Chard :thumb:
Mike
No way that's Swiss Chard, Mike. The fairy that sold me the seeds assures me I have the only FD plants above the equator. Chard just doesn't have the magical sonic punch this stuff does. Turns out genuine FD plants like the climate in Idaho and particularly our flower bed....don't tell anyone...
It's the Duke's Mixture of all three elements in the Dust Box that makes it all come together and sonically integrate and enhance the surroundings. I'm told it radiates in about a four foot radius, so I'm hoping it spills over on speakers as well. I didn't say so in original post, but I also included a 1928* penny in each box. My amps won't settle for anything but the good stuff...they're fussy that way.
*Mickey Mouse's birth year.
-
The slats look really cool.
It looks like somethings been eating your fairy dust plant, is that what fairies eat?
Oh no, Greg, it's poisonous to fairies. Might have been a Sonic Slug or a confused leaf cutter bee.
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Oh no, Greg, it's poisonous to fairies. Might have been a Sonic Slug or a confused leaf cutter bee.
Well, Obviously I'm confused, I thought fairies distributed fairy dust? If the plant is poisonous where do they get their dust?
Ummm, I'm starting to get suspicious. Are you really who you say you are, or does your last name really start with a P?
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Well, Obviously I'm confused, I thought fairies distributed fairy dust? If the plant is poisonous where do they get their dust?
Ummm, I'm starting to get suspicious. Are you really who you say you are, or does your last name really start with a P?
My understanding is that they can handle it, but not ingest it. Like food one's allergic too, you know? It's one of the odd and little known facts about FD.
An imposter? Might be a possibility but for one thing. Who in their right mind would want to impersonate me? I would think it would be to their detriment.
But that assumes one is indeed of right mind... hmmm
-
I ignored work I should have been doing today, and did this 'cuz I was excited about it. Probably my favorite part of the build, although listening will be pretty cool, too.
I'll pay my penance tomorrow.
I sprayed the amp base inserts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148435)
And then the chemist in me got to come out and play
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148436)
Made yet more samples. I suppose I've been all over with this part, but landed on something that would stand out.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148437)
Cheesecloth first
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148438)
Then tissue
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148439)
Wet down with Sodium Sulfate solution
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148440)
Four minutes go by
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148441)
Comes out looking a little different, no? Before and after
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148442)
After the sub frames I did the mains baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148443)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148444)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148452)
I use shellac as a barrier coat. The gilding size doesn't always play well with solvent based stuff I'll be finishing with
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148445)
Added some Transtint
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148446)
Tone coat in cup. It looks like a lot, but when sprayed out, the effect is subtle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148447)
Here's where they stand now. The overall effect will be toned down somewhat by drivers, grills and subsequent finishing steps. All in good time...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148448)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148449)
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Peter,
Not sure how to respond, WOW!!! doesn't seem to cover it.
It's the fairy dust isn't it? Must have drifted over from the amp boxes. That's it, yeah.
Mike
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Peter,
Not sure how to respond, WOW!!! doesn't seem to cover it.
It's the fairy dust isn't it? Must have drifted over from the amp boxes. That's it, yeah.
Mike
It's possible I accidentally snorted some. They remind me of a trip I took a long time ago...
-
Started on finishing today.
Yet more samples to make sure I'm headed where I want to go.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149134)
Dye and sealer. After futzing around some I found that straight bright red Transtint got the tone I wanted. Surprised me a little, but with the color of the mahogany +straight red dye the base color is just what I envisioned. It will shift a little more towards red as the finishing progresses...you'll see as I move along...trust me! This will be a "fully filled" finish, meaning the open grain of the mahogany will filled so the final lacquer coats will be close to glass smooth...very little if any texture. Imagine dining room table or high end furniture.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149135)
Here's the amp boxes after spraying dye and two coats of Level sealer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149136)
And here's a close-up. You can see the red dye on the non-veneered parts (those will all be black), and the open grain structure of the wood. This will change as I progress
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149137)
Subs and mains after sealer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149138)
And here's the bonus fiddleback figure after the dye "pops" it.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149139)
Next on agenda: sand, fill, sand, spray more dye, spray Level, sand, spray Level, sand, spray Level, sand and on & on till it's glass. Then the topcoats.
-
I can only say:
WOW !
and :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.
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Peter - your detailed and well documented build threads are one of my favourites here at at AC. Thank you for sharing your amazing work. :thumb:
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Peter - your detailed and well documented build threads are one of my favourites here at at AC. Thank you for sharing your amazing work. :thumb:
Ditto ++++
and what Guy said
Neil
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Thanks for the kudos... nice to hear (read). It's enjoyable for me, too. I get to share some bit of myself through the process. To follow the paths I do and have others with similar interests along for the ride is just cool. Probably why I like forums in general, but this one in particular. In addition, I get to be a passenger on other's threads.
As I get nearer the end, the excitement of having them in the house playing my tunes builds and re-motivates me, although there's much left to do. It's as if the build has taken on an epic life of it's own and I'm just the facilitator, it that makes any sense. Probably says something about me and my sometimes nutty notions.
I could wax philosophical on and on I suppose, but I'll digress and go do some sanding...
-
A delayed job gives me some time to work on these. I thought I might detail the finishing a little more because, truth be told, because I like this part a lot! I'm using some products that might be a little hard to come by in the DIY world but the finish is some of the best I've ever done.
As I was sanding the sealer I noticed that I'd sanded through the veneer where I seamed it so I applied a little camouflage
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149470)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149471)
Hopefully this comes through like I'm intending. Here's what the grain looks like after shooting 2 heavy coats of Level Sealer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149472)
And this is after I sand it back...way back. After this two more fat coats and sand back again and it has all but completely filled the grain. I didn't take any photos at that juncture...oops.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149473)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149474)
Once I got the second coats of Level sanded, I masked off the mahogany and shot black on interior. Then unmasked and put down three coats of pre-cat lacquer, sanding between 2nd & 3rd coat.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149475)
Close-up of the same area that I was showing grain in prior photo, for comparison
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149476)
Had to stick the grills on to get a taste
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149477)
Some shots showing finish on amp base, it's kinda hard to photograph, but while you can see the grain and still get the wood vibe, the surface is dead flat and smooth. I once heard this type of finish described as something like "makes you want to touch it" and that's apt, I think. The most impressive thing to me is that this is the finish off the gun, no cutting and buffing. I'm pretty stoked!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149479)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149480)
Next up will be same treatment on mains and sub boxes. If there's something specific y'all would like to see, let me know and I'll take photos.
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Thanks Peter for the pictures. :thumb:
Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.
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The next chapter. Still finishing, some assembly.
This is silicone rubber glazing seal...seemed just the thing for this application. I sprinkled fairy dust on it before installation and should probably name it something more elegant for audio use.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149771)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149772)
Got amp stands and cages done
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149773)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149775)
Masked off mahogany to spray interiors. Was going to do mains but the extra can of Clawlock I got just so I had it on hand was...........white! Shit! I had just enough black to do subs. Can't get more until Tuesday.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149776)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149777)
Once interiors on subs were done, I masked them to shoot final lacquer coats on sub. Lots of masking....not my fave. I had to do a mockup afterward to satisfy curiosity.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149778)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=149779)
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O my Freak n Gosh, you are kill n me. But don't ever stop post n pictures and thanks.
Most of us can only dream of getting results like that.
Thanks for setting the bar so high.
Neil
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Peter,
you are an excellent wood worker, cabinet maker
and very important, you are an artist in design, creation
and making.
I've seen a lot of speaker enclosures in my life,
but yours are... A work of art and I am not only trying to be nice,
I really think it's a unique creation.
Everything about your speakers enclosures
and even the box for the plate amplifiers is unique.
If I were you, I would keep it for myself.
If you sell it, as for 1,000,000 USD for it.
Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.
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Peter,
you are an excellent wood worker, cabinet maker
and very important, you are an artist in design, creation
and making.
I've seen a lot of speaker enclosures in my life,
but yours are... A work of art and I am not only trying to be nice,
I really think it's a unique creation.
Everything about your speakers enclosures
and even the box for the plate amplifiers is unique.
If I were you, I would keep it for myself.
If you sell it, as for 1,000,000 USD for it.
Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.
Thanks Guy, that's really thoughtful of you to say. I must say the process of dreaming up something, planning how it's going to get done and finally bringing it to fruition is heady stuff for me. It certainly feeds my soul. It also hones my skills and raises my bar, which is a lot of what drives the whole thing. It took me a long time to make the commitment to a build like this. I considered it with Danny's Super V's but never got on that horse for a variety of reasons. But here the stars aligned and away I went!
When I think about it, it's a little odd that I've never even heard these and yet made this time and money commitment on the front end. I can't imagine I won't like them, but as you may have noticed, this is more a woodworking exercise than a speaker design experiment. I'll leave that to Danny and others. These are intended for our living room and I imagine keeping them for a long time. I wouldn't begin to know how to price something like this. I've exceeded my most pessimistic time estimates and have quit keeping track. That said, I probably would part with them for a million. And then start another...
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More progress and I need some help. I know I've seen but can't seem to find the diagram showing sub wiring. Drivers in parallel and sensors in series or maybe the other way around. Direction appreciated or just post here. Thanks.
Finishing up the mains
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150138)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150139)
Then glue and screw the baffles using PL Premium. Small bead all around...don't want it oozing out all over...inside's got to be pretty too!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150140)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150141)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150142)
Couldn't live with those big silver eyeballs staring out at me. Apologies Danny for taking your stickers off, they just don't jibe with my vision!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150143)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150144)
And y'all know how fussy I am about driver installation hardware so I put spacers on the mounting screws so they didn't disappear into the holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150147)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150148)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150149)
And some late afternoon sun vanity shots
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150150)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150151)
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Nice to watch when people pull out all the stops. Well done.
Rocket Ronny
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Peter, I've never seen something so beautiful.
Please, keep the pictures coming.
Looking at your pictures is as good, maybe even better,
than eating a chocolate chips muffin
and a chocolate chips muffin is. is....
No word to describe it.
Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.
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Peter,
Here you go
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150155)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150156)
Mike
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Peter,
Here you go
Mike
Thanks Mike, I don't think I've seen these before. The one I was remembering was a Super V silhouette.
In my case using two drivers rather than three, I would just eliminate the bottom driver and wire bottom driver in subs as if they were middle driver in drawings? Does that make sense?
-
This one is for 2 subs:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150170)
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This one is for 2 subs:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150170)
That's the one I remember. Thanks Rich. Danny, maybe these could be stickys here or available on your site? Seems like it's brought up from time to time.
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Thanks Mike, I don't think I've seen these before. The one I was remembering was a Super V silhouette.
In my case using two drivers rather than three, I would just eliminate the bottom driver and wire bottom driver in subs as if they were middle driver in drawings? Does that make sense?
Sorry about that. I drew these out when I was wiring up my 3x8" H-Frames then accidentally saved them in the wrong place (a folder for dual drivers). When I posted these I didn't look close enough to realize they were for a triple hook-up.
Mike
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And some late afternoon sun vanity shots
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150150)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150151)
Wow, beautful Peter, the sun shots did it for me
Your "Christmas morning" is fast approaching :beer;
One of the easiest ways to remember the sub wiring is , no matter what # of drivers are used the driver coils are all wired in parallel, the servo coils are all wired in series. If any driver is reversed in the cabinet, it's wired out of phase (reverse the polarity)
-
A trick I used wiring the servo subs was to wire the amps to the wiring as if they were all front facing and just reverse the wire colors on the rear facing drivers. Much easier for me to remember.
-
Thanks all. That's really helpful. For whatever reason, this is hard for me to conceptually grasp, but this makes it easier.
-
Beginning assembly. Paying work has been gettin' in the way of my speaker building! Grrrrr. While I'm thinking of it, I'll finish subs before mains and may put in existing system 'cuz I'm anxious to hear them. I know it's been discussed before, but for my benefit do y'all have some beginning settings for the sub amps so I'm not completely wingin' it? Would be appreciated.
The strap bases I had made needed to be set up for 6/32 machine screws coming from both sides so I drilled the straps for clearance and tapped the bases through
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150660)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150661)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150662)
Needed to do a little customizing on screw length so they don't interfere with each other in the middle of base
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150663)
Then
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150664)
Balls and studs
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150665)
And the end result...woo-hoo!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150666)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150667)
Because I am who I am and this build is about minutia, I can't just cut the No-Rez square ended and be done....so I mitered the ends.
Setup on bandsaw. As an interesting aside, I'm thinkin' that backing on No-Rez has some significant mineral content. I could see little sparks come off as I cut. I was willing to sacrifice the blade though so I pressed on...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150669)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150670)
Midstream in the miters I thought it might look cool to bevel the front edge of foam
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150671)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150672)
Final result
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150673)
Moving on to box lining. Some knuckle rapping on box before and after the No-Rez makes the difference really apparent. I submit that No-Rez probably has Fairy Dust on it. How cool is that?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150674)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150675)
And just in case you're wondering about the holding ability of the strap bases and shear strength of those little #6 screws I sat on it. Speaker must weight around 80#, plus me at about 175#....I think we're good, not a hint of movement. No jokes about my bird legs, it was an impromptu test...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150676)
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:dance: :banana piano: :bowdown:
-
Nice work.
-
Looks fantastic! I still have to add No Rez to my cabinets.
-
Peter, your attention to detail is second to none. I love the way you trimmed the no rez, it turned a functional item into an accent. Well done. I was uncertain how the legs would turn out, but those look great as well.
Best,
Ed
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Man, I love what you did with the No Rez too. Nice job!
-
Stunning work there. And the No Rez bevel work is stunning in it's self. No detail to small has been left out. :flame:
Alan
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Nicely done Peter, I've considered doing 45'd conrners a few times but always feel i'll come up short on no-rez . Withthe 13" x 13" opening, you can cut the no rez into 27 x 13 and 27 x 11 strips then cut to lenght (13's go horozonaally, 11's go vertically)... if you do 45's, they all need to be 13. I guess with hte shorter span due to he grill frame (5.5" instead of 6.5") , you can still get enough.pieces.. I'll have to try that next time :thumb:
Try this for starting with the A370's
PEQ - OFF (first row of dials won't be in use)
Phase - 180
C/O - as needed
volume - as needed
Slope - 12/AVR (if you want a steeper slope, use either 24/50 or 24/80, you get 12 db/octave at either 50 or 80 hz and another 12 at dial setting)
Rumble filter - Off
Extension - 14 hz
Damping - Low
That should get you going
jay
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Peter, your attention to detail is second to none. I love the way you trimmed the no rez, it turned a functional item into an accent. Well done. I was uncertain how the legs would turn out, but those look great as well.
Best,
Ed
Well said ED, but what legs are you talking about, his or the sub's? :)
Neil
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Peter, your attention to detail is second to none. I love the way you trimmed the no rez, it turned a functional item into an accent. Well done. I was uncertain how the legs would turn out, but those look great as well.
Best,
Ed
I agree 100% with Ed & Danny. The mitered/ beveled No Rez really adds to the beautiful fit & finish of the cabinets. Top notch work!
I must admit though that the gold plated connections & wiring stand out, seems like they should be painted black or hidden with a cover plate somehow. That's what happens when you make something so beautiful, it makes the small warts stand out ! :lol:
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I agree 100% with Ed & Danny. The mitered/ beveled No Rez really adds to the beautiful fit & finish of the cabinets. Top notch work!
I must admit though that the gold plated connections & wiring stand out, seems like they should be painted black or hidden with a cover plate somehow. That's what happens when you make something so beautiful, it makes the small warts stand out ! :lol:
I assumed the connectors would be hidden by grill cloth, but maybe grill cloth is not planned?
-
Hmmm, I hadn't really considered disguising the connectors and wiring, but you got me thinkin' now. These will have grills, but they're the sheer and sexy ones shown earlier in thread so we'll see if that tones down the look some. If not, it may be time to put on my thinking cap...
The mitered No-Rez was a little bit of a booger getting the last piece in. Once the release paper is removed, the adhesive almost leaps to anything it gets near. I ended up flexing it in a shallow U shape and sorta popping it into place. It wasn't without it's frustration but at that point I was committed...no turning back! That adhesive is just wicked stuff.
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Once the release paper is removed, the adhesive almost leaps to anything it gets near. I ended up flexing it in a shallow U shape and sorta popping it into place. It wasn't without it's frustration but at that point I was committed...no turning back! That adhesive is just wicked stuff.
:lol: This just cracked me up Peter, that's exactly how I felt when I was putting on, by myself I might add. As soon as you take the blindfold off of that stuff it jumps to the first thing it sees :lol:
-
Progressing slowly right now, in the midst of a to-the-studs bathroom remodel for client and just seems like there's lot's of things demanding my attention. Did get some licks in today and nearing the home stretch.
I had to get the subs in the house after getting them completed and installing dedicated outlets for sub amps and Ncores... just couldn't wait to hear the open baffle bass I see talked about so much.
Here's a pic with and without sheer and sexy grills. The earlier post about the terminals had me wondering. I can live with it, in fact, I like that it ties it with the somewhat industrial vibe of the legs. Also had an idea to have amp house live on top, but that'll have to wait for another time...would require some forethought on wiring.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151336)
Placed in their home and hooked up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151337)
Right angle AC and RCAs to accommodate grill. I've never used the Speakons before. They are elegantly made little connectors. If you should use them, I'd suggest investing in a #1 Posidrive screwdriver or tip which is what the jamb screws are.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151338)
A view from the other side. Mains will replace what you see. I plugged the ports temporarily, the subs just do a better job down low
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151340)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151341)
Got all the grills covered and had one crossover yet to solder. I'm really liking the No-See-Um netting for grills...I'm sure I'll use again.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151342)
The bases on the mains attach a little differently than subs because of shelf brace and other obstructions
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151343)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151344)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151345)
Wiring and No-Rez on the horizon...probably next weekend. I'm almost giddy!
-
I got to cutting No-Rez for the mains tonight and hit an impasse...would appreciate input.
I assumed I would cut the bevel to kinda look like the subs, but mocking it up I'm not sure it has the same visual impact without the corner miters. Following photos show both with and without grills and a couple different angles.
What do y'all think?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151504)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151505)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151506)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151507)
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I'm about as picky as it gets but I really don't think anyone will notice the detail differences. The Reason is that you are using the same materials on both and that is what most people will notice and nothing more.
I go crazy making everything perfect, but what I have learned is very few people, if any will actually see any difference.
Just my opinion from my experience designing and making things...
Greg
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gregfisk has a good point. But YOU will look at them, no? That said, I like your beveled edge. The extra level of detail goes nicely with the "over the top construction" theme. :thumb:
BK
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Thanks for the insights. I judge stuff like this mostly on how it looks to me and after staring at it for a while, I actually like it without bevel. I recognize it's almost a nothing but I gotta lavish on the details somewhere just to satisfy my compulsion...
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If I may:
It looks better w/out bevel but aligned to back hrz/vrt edge, with some angle to NoRez applied to meet that 'delta' or 'trapezoid' enclosure shape.
Plus: For sure Danny will have proper advice on this as this is more technical than aesthetics Q: I think that NoRez should be 1-1/2" away from baffle,
leaving more free air around driver(s) ?
-
If I may:
It looks better w/out bevel but aligned to back hrz/vrt edge, with some angle to NoRez applied to meet that 'delta' or 'trapezoid' enclosure shape.
Plus: For sure Danny will have proper advice on this as this is more technical than aesthetics Q: I think that NoRez should be 1-1/2" away from baffle,
leaving more free air around driver(s) ?
Yes on 10° angled face of No-Rez.
I think in the case of open baffles the primary function of No-Rez is to damp panels which is facilitated mostly by the thin vinyl layer. The foam comes into play more when it acts as box stuffing on conventional speakers, but admittedly that's conjecture on my part. I'm considering damping upper non-windowed side with vinyl layer only (foam removed) but it ain't purty, so there's that.
Danny, can you weigh in here?
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Yes on 10° angled face of No-Rez.
I think in the case of open baffles the primary function of No-Rez is to damp panels which is facilitated mostly by the thin vinyl layer. The foam comes into play more when it acts as box stuffing on conventional speakers, but admittedly that's conjecture on my part. I'm considering damping upper non-windowed side with vinyl layer only (foam removed) but it ain't purty, so there's that.
Danny, can you weigh in here?
Leave the foam on it. It is still damping and absorbing upper harmonics played by the lower woofers and some of the vertical off axis output of the MTM section.
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This build thread is nearing it's end because....well, because they're done and breaking in!
Doing the wiring. I'd make the holes for the MTM section a little bigger next time. It was tight but I was determined...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151654)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151657)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151655)
No-Rez installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151658)
Close up of MTM section
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151659)
Adjusted the "landing gear" to accommodate the sink-into-carpet effect
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151660)
Grills on, then off, then stored
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151661)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151662)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151663)
Now I get to clean the shop...
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They look great Peter! Congratulations!
Now the next long term fun part begins. Listening time!
-
:bowdown:
They called him 'Il Maestro'...
:)
Few more pics please
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WOW Peter, not much more to say. The choices you made throughout the build along with your execution, really amazing. Fantastic final product. Love the magnetic grill holder on the side, very clever.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the sound.
Question regarding the crossover, I assumed the lower M165s to the M165NQs crossover would be the same as the NX Ottica, however I don't see a bank of caps that I believe are in the NQ portion of the crossover, do the two speakers differ or did you use a higher value cap?
Congrats on a great build,
Ed
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This build thread is nearing it's end because....well, because they're done and breaking in!
Now I get to clean the shop...
Peter, they look fantastic!!!
I'm very impressed with your start to finish process and how you brought it all together.
I'm also impressed that you have a plan to "clean up the shop" that's the part I always skip and boy does it show :duh:
Thank you for taking the time to post all of the pictures, it is one of my favorite things to follow and you have some great ideas :thumb:
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WOW Peter, not much more to say. The choices you made throughout the build along with your execution, really amazing. Fantastic final product. Love the magnetic grill holder on the side, very clever.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the sound.
Question regarding the crossover, I assumed the lower M165s to the M165NQs crossover would be the same as the NX Ottica, however I don't see a bank of caps that I believe are in the NQ portion of the crossover, do the two speakers differ or did you use a higher value cap?
Congrats on a great build,
Ed
Ed,
It looks like Peter used the single 100uF cap (big black cap between the Sonicaps) that is standard. The four 25uF Sonicaps is an upgrade.
Perer,
Fantastic. Now you get to kick back and enjoy the fruits of your labor, and what sweet fruit it is!!
Mike
-
Ed,
It looks like Peter used the single 100uF cap (big black cap between the Sonicaps) that is standard. The four 25uF Sonicaps is an upgrade.
Thanks Mike, much appreciated.
Best,
Ed
-
It is a statment to your day job when I look at your pictures :duh:
I could also use a lesson in shop cleanup. :thumb:
A most stunning and informative thread.
Alan
-
Shazam! Those are beautiful!
Enjoy!
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Peter Purrrr fection, Thanks for sharing this with us. Inspiration and admiration beyond words.
Neil
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Thanks all, I appreciate it.
To address the crossover question. I just picked out the parts that were prettiest and pitched the rest...looks are everything, you know.
Just kidding on the above, Mike addressed it correctly I believe.
Nik, happy to take more pics. What would you like to see?
Now, as to sound. I'm not feeling much like a dissertation and hyper use of adjectives is not my thing. so brevity will be order of the day. I probably have 50 or so hours playing music, but no particular break-in strategy. They have changed really significantly in this time. Out of the chute they were thin on bass, brash and almost harsh in the top end. That has transformed more than I would have imagined.
Low frequency kicks it. Open, unrestrained, uncongested...very natural sounding, even at low volumes. This trait would be hard to give up, but it takes some space and I kinda shoehorned it into this space. I get it now!
Mids are detailed, revealing and smooth
High frequencies I hope will morph a little more. Rim shot on snare is almost to thwacky. Vocals are a little glassy. One thing I'd forgotten and should mention. IME, the more resolving my system becomes, the more recordings I find deficient in some way because warts are more hear-able now. That's a sad truth and can be the root of a lot of tail chasing.
Overall I'm very happy with both sound and looks. Oddly now that I'm finished there's a void as there's no project to plan for. OK, the house still needs paint and pickup needs ball joints but it's not the same, you know.
Thanks for following along on my journey.
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Peter,
I've found the high def recordings from AIX Records to be really clean and sound really good, especially on my OB system http://aixrecords.com/
If you like Jazz/World music give the "Ernest Ranglin - Order of Distinction - Collectors Edition" Blu-Ray a listen http://aixrecords.com/catalog/ce/ernest_ranglin_ce.html
Mike
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I probably have 50 or so hours playing music, but no particular break-in strategy. They have changed really significantly in this time. Out of the chute they were thin on bass, brash and almost harsh in the top end. That has transformed more than I would have imagined.
Low frequency kicks it. Open, unrestrained, uncongested...very natural sounding, even at low volumes. This trait would be hard to give up, but it takes some space and I kinda shoehorned it into this space. I get it now!
Mids are detailed, revealing and smooth
High frequencies I hope will morph a little more. Rim shot on snare is almost to thwacky. Vocals are a little glassy. One thing I'd forgotten and should mention. IME, the more resolving my system becomes, the more recordings I find deficient in some way because warts are more hear-able now. That's a sad truth and can be the root of a lot of tail chasing.
Overall I'm very happy with both sound and looks. Oddly now that I'm finished there's a void as there's no project to plan for. OK, the house still needs paint and pickup needs ball joints but it's not the same, you know.
Thanks for following along on my journey.
Glad you are enjoying them Peter ! Knew you were going to love the bass, pretty amazing isn't it ? I'm guessing after another 50 hrs or so you'l l be more impressed with the speakersm I felt it took some time for the NQ's to really come alive although I'm using some different parts in the network that may have taken a bit longer to settle in
with regards to the lower quality recordings, unfortunately it seems to be an issue and something you just have to get used to, try and enjoy the recording for what it is... I know, it can be tough .
Listening to the recording Mike recommended, just off Tidal it sounds great :thumb:
Enjoy your new system man
jay
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Hey Peter,
Few more close-up photos with grills on would be nice. You took a lot of effort (& thinking) in constructing them, they should be seen to.
Perhaps top and side view fm outside and front, top poar. Close-up of NoRes at back (to point out the 10deg. angle) etc.
Thanks in adv!
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Here ya go, Nik. Some with flash, some without. Flash tends to wash out what eyeballs actually see but highlights other things. I imagine bounce flash would be best, but don't have the capability.
In real life and ambient light the grills came out just like I envisioned. You can glimpse the inside but it's not upstaging the exterior. Another interesting thing is it's got some sheen which mimics wood finish sheen...a happy accident I didn't really anticipate.
Better photographer could net better photos, I suppose, but I try!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151835)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151836)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151837)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151838)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151839)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151840)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151841)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151842)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151843)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151844)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151845)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151846)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151847)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151848)
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Peter-
Outstanding. Each phase of this build/thread has been either drool-inducing or jaw-dropping, and the end result did not disappoint. Great job.
Are you running these with any sub-woofage for the bottom end?
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Peter-
Outstanding. Each phase of this build/thread has been either drool-inducing or jaw-dropping, and the end result did not disappoint. Great job.
Are you running these with any sub-woofage for the bottom end?
Oh yeah, we got sub-woofage. Dual 12" open baffle per side, handling form around 100 hertz on down. See post 216 for a look. Making good use of 'em right now...listening to Morphine. And open baffle bass is probably addictive like morphine.
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Oh yeah, we got sub-woofage. Dual 12" open baffle per side, handling form around 100 hertz on down. See post 216 for a look. Making good use of 'em right now...listening to Morphine. And open baffle bass is probably addictive like morphine.
Morphine is a great band, sorry for the loss of the lead singer. Anyway, you just made me realize since I have had my Super V's I have't even listened to any yet :duh:
By the way and once again, really nice build and I'm sure they sound fantastic :thumb:
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LOL. :D
Brain cramp on my end. Completely forgot the dual 12 OB servos and the trapezoid-ish amp stands you built and detailed in this thread.
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The continuing saga…
Recently corresponding with Jay (Captainhemo) he reminded me that I really hadn’t done any further review of these. I’m not much for reviews as they often strike me as vehicles for feathering one’s own cap or reassurance for a decision made and subsequent desire to have others climb on board your thought process…so there!
This has been a process for me that was both eye-opening and at times discouraging.
As many here know, my thing is the physical design, woodworking and problem-solving within those arenas. The acoustic design and mechanics of crossovers and such is significantly less intriguing…that’s my reality. The other reality is that I casually listen 90% of the time, often from another room. My desire to sit and critically listen for extended periods comes infrequently.
When I initially got these done, in the system and dialed in pretty closely, I was impressed with many aspects but, to be honest, it wasn’t the quantum leap in overall sound quality I expected. At first, I attributed it to break-in, which did make a difference, but there was still some “is this all there is?” going on for me.
I assumed that either my expectation was too high, my hearing was flawed, or had some system synergy that wasn’t right. The biggest beef I had was a mild harshness that seemed to increase with volume, I described it to someone as “cacophonous”. Not a glaring fault, but rather a subtle aggravating annoyance. It was, however, affecting my enjoyment in the rare moments of sitting and listening, and subsequently these became fewer.
The problem-solver in me rose up and I began to plot my course forward. Maybe I should build the NX-Oticas, perhaps changing amps, DAC, preamp, or wire was the key to nirvana. The projected $$ outlay just grew and grew to the point that it sucked the joy from the whole damn thing. I needed some outside perspective, which I asked for in another thread, and the advice I received helped me to gain some better understanding and persevere.
For those that don’t know me, I’m suspect of anything that smells of snake oil. I try to remain objective, but for me to look twice, there must be a factual component that hits my analytical buttons. When I first built the CAPS server, one of the current hot tickets (and there were and are MANY) was a product called Fidelizer. As I understand, it works on the core operation of a computer (server), minimizing non-audio related functions. This makes sense to me. The other thing I gleaned from all the buzz was that computers are electrically noisy and this affects playback of audio files.
So I used Fidelizer, and I installed an iFi iUSB to address the issues I thought important and was a happy a camper. Well, as happy as a camper can be when afflicted with an audio obsession, anyway. Then along came Windows 10. Now, I like Win 10. I like it better than 8, which seems like a mildly horrific mess of an OS, particularly the GUI, but that’s another story. Somehow, I came to the conclusion that Fidelizer was causing dropouts within Win 10, so I quit using it…no biggie. Or so it seemed.
Enter the X-Oticas. In an effort to localize the cause of the harshness I was hearing, I eliminated the preamp and used the DAC as pre. Actually sounded a bit worse but still the harshness persisted, so preamp was deemed innocent. In the other thread I wrote of, Tubeburner drew my attention back to Fidelizer…hmmmm. So I installed it, loaded JRiver, reinstalled preamp in system and gave it a listen.
Oh Shit! That instantly did away with the harshness I’d been hearing. I (metaphorically) pinched myself, “can this really be happening”? That little utility, really? Only two things changed; wires were moved from DAC to pre and I ran Fidelizer…that’s it!
So mark me down as a believer in “digital hash”, which I think I truly understand the meaning of now. Insert all the audiophile adjectives here, this made a remarkable difference. The expectations I originally had of the X-Oticas are fulfilled. The high end and mids have a clarity and pureness that is really easy to listen to. The so called “listening fatigue” is absent. It’s damn near an epiphany for me. The only downside, which I mentioned earlier in the thread, is that higher resolving equipment reveals ho-hum recordings for what they are…shitty. Can’t fix that with gear, I’m afraid.
Moving forward, in an effort to further address the “computer noise” I’ll be installing a Sonore microRendu and Uptone LPS-1 power supply, which I’m looking forward to.
-
Peter,
Just to follow up with your digital woos....
I know where you are coming from with that stuff. I have been through some eye opening revelations when it comes to digital playback. For a couple of years there it seemed like a new revelation was found every few weeks that just kept taking things to new levels.
So far I have found the Mac Mini to still better any and all servers. And I am not a Mac guys either. So the format is still annoying.
Then came the mods.... The switching power supply is gone. It now runs on an external 12 volt batter with C-Tek charger. The hard drive is now solid state. The RAM is maxed out with gaming RAM. And I think there was about 60,000 lines of operating code stripped out from the operating system. I also store all the music on an external hard drive.
And Man the USB cables really matter. There is a lot of differences between cables.
For playback software I have iTunes, Pure Music, SBooth's Play, and Audirvana. They all sound different.
And I am sending the digital out via I2S direct (not SPDIF out). Another big difference.
Each thing we did was very significant and just kept making a difference. And I just mentioned the major things. I am still amazed.
So before you think bits are bits and wire is wire.... You have to give this stuff a shot. You are just getting a slight taste right now. It can get even better.
-
A good tale Peter, one that reminds us all that speakers are often incorrectly blamed for any problem which sounds frequency related. Digital noise tends to "ride" on the signal sent to the amplifier and then speakers, and can sound just like a "tizzy" tweeter. The truth is, the better the speaker, the more it reveals any problems created further back in the chain. Ironically, a better speaker can make a not-so-good source sound worse!
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Peter,
Ive heard about Fidelizer but havn't been moved to try it. Guess i need to give it a try.
Mike
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Peter,
Just to follow up with your digital woos....
I know where you are coming from with that stuff. I have been through some eye opening revelations when it comes to digital playback. For a couple of years there it seemed like a new revelation was found every few weeks that just kept taking things to new levels.
So far I have found the Mac Mini to still better any and all servers. And I am not a Mac guys either. So the format is still annoying.
Then came the mods.... The switching power supply is gone. It now runs on an external 12 volt batter with C-Tek charger. The hard drive is now solid state. The RAM is maxed out with gaming RAM. And I think there was about 60,000 lines of operating code stripped out from the operating system. I also store all the music on an external hard drive.
And Man the USB cables really matter. There is a lot of differences between cables.
For playback software I have iTunes, Pure Music, SBooth's Play, and Audirvana. They all sound different.
And I am sending the digital out via I2S direct (not SPDIF out). Another big difference.
Each thing we did was very significant and just kept making a difference. And I just mentioned the major things. I am still amazed.
So before you think bits are bits and wire is wire.... You have to give this stuff a shot. You are just getting a slight taste right now. It can get even better.
Danny, I don't doubt that it can get better, but my wallet does have it's limits...
One thing I have real reservations about and see happening in the audio world in general is just throwing dollars at the supposed latest and greatest widget on the assumption that it'll make things magnificently (and perhaps magically) better. I liken it to the "parts replacers" that pose as mechanics. No fundamental understanding of systems or how individual components relate to each other, lets just add or replace things and hope for the best. And if it sucks? Well, oddly, it seems almost nothing ever sucks, which statistically doesn't make sense. I just can't get myself to abandon reasonable evaluation of data. And of course my data pool is often what I read on forums like this, written by strangers, so that's kind of a wild card too. I don't mean to sound curmudgeonly, but I am a skeptic at heart.
Bottom line is I don't know what I don't know, but sometimes make discoveries along the way. If I had the resources to just give everything a try that I'm interested in, well, that would be a seriously fun playground and an even bigger bone pile, me thinks!
-
Peter,
Ive heard about Fidelizer but havn't been moved to try it. Guess i need to give it a try.
Mike
You can do it for free, and I did for a long time. Although just recently I coughed up the $69 for the pro version. The method by which it's delivered is odd, and documentation is sparse, but I kinda like the "cottage" aspect, I guess. There's much in forums, both wheat and chaff.
I'd be interested in reading your impressions should you give it a go.
-
...
Ive heard about Fidelizer but havn't been moved to try it. Guess i need to give it a try.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Instead of trying optimization software + audio player, download and try the best audio player AND optimization software: XXHigEnd. It costs €72, that's only $78 these days.
Demo XXHighEnd will play between 6 and 60 minutes before automatic shutdown. Simply start it again. Full Windows optimization is available in licensed version, of course.
I went digital somewhere back in 2008. At that time, 2 options were most interesting:
1. cic's Memory Player - as free project for complete PC optimization & player
and
2. XXHigEnd - as commercial one
Tried both ways and never regretted turning completely to XXHighEnd. Last version (2.07) is not only amazing with SQ but runs smoothly on almost average PC
like the machine I'm using right now: 'Pentium' G2030 and 8Gb of RAM - almost bottom line Intel CPU and say nowadays standard qty of RAM. Recommendation is
to have powerful CPU: processing power is welcomed, speed is anyhow minimized. As said earlier, full Windows optimization is possible in licensed version only.
Regarding D/A converters - it will work with all converters supporting either Kernel Streaming or native Windows audio service, WDM. No ASIO support.
Recommended OS is Win10 x64 Pro, version 14393.0 (all further updates disabled)
The author of Fidelizer was active on Phasure forum (home of XXHighEnd) so I know (and tried) the product long time before it went commercial.
Brds,
George
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I was once skeptical too Peter. But for a while there I was running with a group of guys that were really working on that stuff and I got to be one of the beta testers of new everything.
I remember one day Gary Dodd and I look at each other and said what's next? How far can this go? We were just contently making big strides. One thing after another and then another...
It was a fun time. Man, I miss him.
-
I've been using Daphile for a bit now, if you've got a spapre pc lying around you can simply make a boot disc or bootable USB thumb drive from the iso and boot directly from it..... it runs a striped down/ music, networking drivers version of Linux. If all you want to upsample to say PCM 352.8 you don't need anything special processor wise, to upsample to DSD 256, you'll want an i7 6700 or better ( you don't have to upsample if you don't want to). Daphile has exellent SQ, many prefer it to HQP. It can be a bit finicky with regards to how your music is tagged but not a big deal to fix up with free apps. Once it's runing on yournetwork, access it via web interface at the ip, easy and convienent, pretty decent interface too.
It's a free open source program
From teh website:
Features
Headless music server OS
Bitperfect and gapless playback
Extensive audio format support
Native DSD playback up to DSD512
PCM resolutions up to 384kHz/24bit
High quality audio resampling including PCM to DSD conversion
Convolution filtering for DRC and equalizer
"Play from RAM" to minimize CPU load and disk activity during playback
Automatic audio device configuration with multiplayer support
CD ripping with AccurateRip™ verification, automatic metadata tagging and cover art
Supports external file servers as music source
Easy configuration and installation through the web interface
WiFi hotspot support (if compatible hardware exists)
Software update via web interface
Network-attached storage (NAS) service
Whole system included in about 200MB ISO-file
https://www.daphile.com/
jay
-
Hi Mike,
Instead of trying optimization software + audio player, download and try the best audio player AND optimization software: XXHigEnd. It costs €72, that's only $78 these days.
Demo XXHighEnd will play between 6 and 60 minutes before automatic shutdown. Simply start it again. Full Windows optimization is available in licensed version, of course.
I went digital somewhere back in 2008. At that time, 2 options were most interesting:
1. cic's Memory Player - as free project for complete PC optimization & player
and
2. XXHigEnd - as commercial one
Tried both ways and never regretted turning completely to XXHighEnd. Last version (2.07) is not only amazing with SQ but runs smoothly on almost average PC
like the machine I'm using right now: 'Pentium' G2030 and 8Gb of RAM - almost bottom line Intel CPU and say nowadays standard qty of RAM. Recommendation is
to have powerful CPU: processing power is welcomed, speed is anyhow minimized. As said earlier, full Windows optimization is possible in licensed version only.
Regarding D/A converters - it will work with all converters supporting either Kernel Streaming or native Windows audio service, WDM. No ASIO support.
Recommended OS is Win10 x64 Pro, version 14393.0 (all further updates disabled)
The author of Fidelizer was active on Phasure forum (home of XXHighEnd) so I know (and tried) the product long time before it went commercial.
Brds,
George
George,
The lack of ASIO support means it won't work for me. I have quite a few DSD files, from DSD64 to DSD256. All of which require ASIO.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
My music server is a repurposed Dell CAD workstation. It has a Xeon processor, 12GB of ECC Ram (can go up to 25GB), Windows 10 professional (was originally Win 7 Pro) on an SSD, music files on a 2TB Caviar Black HDD and an SOtM sound card. Player is JRiver.
Mike
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I'm writing this as a kinda epilog to my epic thread. I guess there's a plug here too, not only for Danny's work which I think very highly of, but also for two products that helped bring me to where I am now, which is ever so satisfied with results. Three products, I guess. Fidelizer, Sonore microRendu and Uptone Audio LPS-1. The latter two of those just installed last night. It eliminated more of the tag-along hash and added an inky background and yet more clean detail...just incredible. I'm not one to spew superlatives, but this is as good as this system has ever sounded...really.
I gotta say I love moments like this, listening to some of my favorite music, getting goosebumps as my eyes mist up. What's the word I'm looking for? Majestic? Involving? Luscious? In the original thread where Danny introduced these speakers, I'm remembering he described the sound as beautiful. That's completely accurate, they sound beautiful. And I got to build something which I view as equally beautiful. Can't get much better than that, eh?
So in spite of the sometimes bumpy road I took to get here, I'm happy to have traveled it. And to those who vicariously traveled with me, thanks for indulging me and my eccentricity.
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Hey, congrats Peter, I'm glad it has worked out well in the end, enjoy that system :beer:
jay
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Hey, post some more pictures of the completed set up when you get a chance. :thumb:
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Congratulations Peter, as another user of the microRendu and the LPS-1, I understand where you are coming from, they made a very nice improvement for me as well. With regard to your build, I agree, an incredible build and beautiful end product!
Best,
Ed
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150672)
Final result
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150673)
Peter,
What angle did you cut the bevel at?
Mike
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Hi Mike, the bevel was the same as miter...45°. I never thought to try it some other way, might be worth a trial run to see what, say 30°, looks like.
-
I recently received this as a private mail and thought it might be of interest to folks endeavoring to do similar.
I will soon be adding the No-Rez to my NX-Ottica/Triple H-frame Sub build. This time around installing No-Rez makes me a little more nervous since I will be applying it over a gloss clearcoat. On flat paint or unfinished MDF there probably is a little more wiggle room for correction.
Really like the look of your beveled/mitered finish on subs, but getting the last piece in (assume you did a long side) could be problematic. In my sub build, all 3 drivers face forward and a I will have a front grill on (most of time I assume, except for those friends who may be curious as to whats under it). Based on your experience, would you bother mitering and beveling? This question only applies to subs since there are only vertical pieces on the mains. I see you did pose the question about adding the bevel for these.
Another technique you appeared to do which I had also considered was setting the No-Rez back from the exposed edges of bracing/sidewalls (maybe 1/8 inch?). I think this makes for a cleaner look rather than trying to cut it flush. As far a the rear edges go, did you choose to bevel the No-Rez foam (angle?) to clear the drivers and then align the No-Rez backer flush up against the baffle?
My last question has to do with assembly order. Was all wiring in place before you installed the No-Rez? My concern there is that the wiring could possibly hang-up on the No-Rez during installation while trying to push it back into place before letting it adhere to the walls.
Any details or answers to these questions would be most appreciated.
In my case all the sides were equal so I chose to do the top piece last. I have grills on most of the time too, but they're somewhat sheer so when light is right one can see the foam. Would it be worth it to you? suppose only you could decide. The bevel was actually my first idea, but the only way it would work and look right was with miter. I often do things just to be see if it's possible, which bites my ass every once in a while.
All wiring was done prior to NoRez. It was the very last thing I did. It would be way harder to mount driver and fish wiring with it in place.
Back edges near drivers were square cut and 3/4" or so shy of baffle...clearance for driver on one side and wire clearance on the other. I kept it pretty simple. As I remember, I cut all 7/8" or 1" less than cabinet depth, assuming around an 1/8 +or- from front edge.
If you go this route, give yourself some wiggle room. If you look closely the miters aren't tight. I think I cut the sides 1/8" less than actual dimension. The hardest part was the last piece. I set the bottom by centering and leaving my 1/8" at front edge, this can be sort of tipped in front to back. Next the sides which can also tip in from bottom to top. Go slow and steady, the adhesive is crazy sticky. Top last, I tried several approaches, but what seemed to work best is to sorta pre-bend the piece down in middle keeping it away from surface as best you can. Push it to one side and get started there, pushing bend out towards opposite side. You will get your fingers on the adhesive some, but the stuff sticks so well, I don't think it matters. Several things to juggle at this point.
I dry ran it in my head and on actual parts with release paper still in place. It's fussy for sure and there were some tense moments. I'd do it again though, it that's any help.
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Peter,
I wasn't sure if they were 45 or 30 from the picture. I thought 45 but wasn't sure.
I ended up trying with the table tilted at both 45 and 30. I expected 30 would be shallower and would therefore look better. It turned out the cut was actually steeper at 30 and did not look as good. This didn't make sense until I realized the degree markings on the table are what you get on the left side of the blade. 45 is going to be the same on either side of the blade but since I set the bandsaw up like you did, cutting on the right side of the blade, the 30 degree setting actually resulted in a 60 degree cut on the foam. So I cut all mine at 45.
I actually cut the bevel on both edges of the pieces. Not that the inside facing the drivers need a bevel but to keep me from screwing up by getting a piece turned around backward.
Definately install the No-Rez last. Cutting the No-Rez shallower than the depth of the box like Peter suggests will keep the wiring from getting in the way. The only place the wiring will be in contact with the No-Rez is along the edge where the connector is.
Don't forget to strip the foam back about 2" from the drivers.
Mike
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Last pair I did I mitered the corners after seeing Peters results. I did not go with the beveled edge, not my thing. I used to cut the pieces deep enough so they went from baffle to front edge, then I'd cut and inch or so of foam off and notch the inner corners where needed for wiring. Now I've been cutting the pieces an inch short so they don't butt up against the baffle, leaves woofer and wiring clearence.
As Peter and Mike said, all wiring is done prior to no rez, it's the last step. When I install it, I do the 2 sides of each cabity, then the base & top. I put a bit of an arc in the last 2 pieces of no rez then butt it into one corner and work my way across to the other. first piece was a little eawkward but you get the hang of it iquickly.
Pieces were also cut just a hir short to get a good fit in the corner.
There's a pic over in the flat pack thread if interested in the mitered corner with no bevel look.
jay