AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Vinyl Circle => Topic started by: reelvox on 26 Dec 2018, 06:52 pm
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Nice article by Jeff Leaming:
http://fairhedon.com/2018/12/26/should-i-choose-a-moving-magnet-or-moving-coil-phono-cartridge2/
For those more towards the beginning of their vinyl journey... :?
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Good read. Thanks. MC designed by Grado and Grado sells MM Hmmmmm. So many to choose from.
charles
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Good read. Thanks. MC designed by Grado and Grado sells MM Hmmmmm. So many to choose from.
charles
Agree! Choices are endless. I went with a Rega Planar 6/Ania MC. I then got the Fono MC preamp. Awesome combo.
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I could be mistaken but I don't think Grado makes MC carts.
Ric
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I could be mistaken but I don't think Grado makes MC carts.
Ric
My point. Joe Grado has or had the patent for MC and makes only MM.
charles
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Actually, to be a little pedantic, Grado makes Moving Iron carts, not Moving Magnet.... Same with B&O / Soundsmith.
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Actually, to be a little pedantic, Grado makes Moving Iron carts, not Moving Magnet.... Same with B&O / Soundsmith.
Yes sorry for error moving Iron it is not MM. :duh:
charles
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one cartridge i think that can compete with MCs is the nagaoka m500. boron cantilever and from what i hear, dynamics as fas as MCs. i will admit that i haven't actually heard one but a yt from ian on hivynil reviewing the mp150 gives me that impression. if i didn't have a good supply of cartridges on hand, i would be buying one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSFP0PJCE4
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one cartridge i think that can compete with MCs is the nagaoka m500. boron cantilever and from what i hear, dynamics as fas as MCs. i will admit that i haven't actually heard one but a yt from ian on hivynil reviewing the mp150 gives me that impression. if i didn't have a good supply of cartridges on hand, i would be buying one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSFP0PJCE4
I would nominate my Stanton 'WOS CS100' as an MM which can better many MCs. (I'm still not convinced it isn't just as good as my recently-bought ZYX Airy3 ... although this is not run in, yet.)
Andy
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The Grado is a moving iron.
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Does anyone have an off the beaten path explanation why MC carts are so much more expensive than MM carts? I get they
are more, but the difference pricing is a really wide gap. :)
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Does anyone have an off the beaten path explanation why MC carts are so much more expensive than MM carts? I get they
are more, but the difference pricing is a really wide gap. :)
Hey!
Pretty good article especially for someone new to vinyl playback. To my knowledge MC cost more to make, with the precision coil winding and etc. And of course MC carts tend to come with better finer stylus also.
I have a bit of a compromise in my system. Right now I have high output MC cart, Benz Micro ACE HO.
Yes, I started out with MM, this was back in the early '90s with one of the cheapest Ortofon and later on I got Grado black if I remember. Than I jump to high output MC cart with Sumiko Blue Point and than Blue Point Special EVO III. OK, I've never compared MM and MC at the same price point. But I can tell you that I don't think I will go back to MM anytime soon. The MC to me have more detail, speed, and airiness to the sound. Can be good or bad depend on your system. Keep in my that I'm using all tubed, SET amps and Single Driver speaker.
It is easy to use high output MC cart in your existing MM phono stage because of the high output from the cart around 2.5mV or so. There's one problem that I think can be a bit tricky. All MM phono stages are loaded with 47K ohm which is fine for MM carts but with MC you will need to load it down. Benz Micro recommend 1K loading with my cart and I loaded mine at 1K or was it 1.2K I don't remembered.
So, I find it strange that Sumiko recommend 47K for their high output MC. Maybe this was why I seems to always felt their Blue Point Special EVOIII can sound a bit splashy and tilted up at the top back than if my memory served me right.
Anyway, if you going to go with high output MC make sure you have a way to change the resistors for the right loading for you particular HO MC cart. For me it is not a problem since I'm a DIYer, I just have to popped open my Audio Note M1 Pre and change the loading resistors in the phono stage. But I believe there are loading plugs that you can buy to change the loading without opening your preamp I think.
Buddy
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Anyway, if you going to go with high output MC make sure you have a way to change the resistors for the right loading for you particular HO MC cart. For me it is not a problem since I'm a DIYer, I just have to popped open my Audio Note M1 Pre and change the loading resistors in the phono stage. But I believe there are loading plugs that you can buy to change the loading without opening your preamp I think.
Buddy
Sure, you can use 'loaded' RCA plugs to reduce the default MM 47k load. But to enable this, the phono stage will ideally have a 2nd pair of input RCAs, in parallel - so:
* the phono cable goes in one pair, and
* load plugs go in the other.
If you don't have this (and you are not DIY-savvy enough to change the default resistors, like you did) ...you need to use RCA 'T'/'Y' connectors in the sole pair of input RCA sockets. Some people say this extra connection degrades the SQ, slightly - so is not ideal.
Andy
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Hey!
Pretty good article especially for someone new to vinyl playback. To my knowledge MC cost more to make, with the precision coil winding and etc. And of course MC carts tend to come with better finer stylus also.
I have a bit of a compromise in my system. Right now I have high output MC cart, Benz Micro ACE HO.
Yes, I started out with MM, this was back in the early '90s with one of the cheapest Ortofon and later on I got Grado black if I remember. Than I jump to high output MC cart with Sumiko Blue Point and than Blue Point Special EVO III. OK, I've never compared MM and MC at the same price point. But I can tell you that I don't think I will go back to MM anytime soon. The MC to me have more detail, speed, and airiness to the sound. Can be good or bad depend on your system. Keep in my that I'm using all tubed, SET amps and Single Driver speaker.
It is easy to use high output MC cart in your existing MM phono stage because of the high output from the cart around 2.5mV or so. There's one problem that I think can be a bit tricky. All MM phono stages are loaded with 47K ohm which is fine for MM carts but with MC you will need to load it down. Benz Micro recommend 1K loading with my cart and I loaded mine at 1K or was it 1.2K I don't remembered.
So, I find it strange that Sumiko recommend 47K for their high output MC. Maybe this was why I seems to always felt their Blue Point Special EVOIII can sound a bit splashy and tilted up at the top back than if my memory served me right.
Anyway, if you going to go with high output MC make sure you have a way to change the resistors for the right loading for you particular HO MC cart. For me it is not a problem since I'm a DIYer, I just have to popped open my Audio Note M1 Pre and change the loading resistors in the phono stage. But I believe there are loading plugs that you can buy to change the loading without opening your preamp I think.
Buddy
Hi Buddy:
Excellent post. I especially appreciate the insight and the detail with personal experience.
Most that go to MC generally don't go back to MM. We all just have to be careful not to be sucked into spending
huge sums. And dealing with specs and loading issues is another factor.
I actually question the specifications most cart manufacturers publish.
Thanks again,
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One of the issues with stepping up to more expensive MC cartridges and getting all they can offer is that you probably also have to upgrade your phono stage, and possibly get a step up device too. That's even more $$$ out of pocket, but essential if you want to hear what those cartridges over $1K can offer, let alone those over $3K.
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Soundsmith has some excellent info on their web site.
Their cartridges which are mi are excellent sounding and very reasonable to have retipped.
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One of the issues with stepping up to more expensive MC cartridges and getting all they can offer is that you probably also have to upgrade your phono stage, and possibly get a step up device too. That's even more $$$ out of pocket, but essential if you want to hear what those cartridges over $1K can offer, let alone those over $3K.
Completely agree with you. And I might add you have to match the cart to the phono stage. There is def. some incompatibility, regardless of price, you can run into, especially if the cart
is very low output.
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Soundsmith has some excellent info on their web site.
Their cartridges which are mi are excellent sounding and very reasonable to have retipped.
Soundsmith is real artisan stuff.
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Hey guys, regardless of cart type, here is a really nice LP (AAA!) to acquire:
http://fairhedon.com/2019/03/18/vinyl-spotlight-jerome-sabbath-greg-tuoheys-no-filter/
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MM with a replaceable stylus.
P
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I don't think I will go back to MM anytime soon. The MC to me have more detail, speed, and airiness to the sound.
I reached the same conclusion many years ago. My jaw dropped the first time I heard a Dynavector MC with an ARC step up, it was far better than I expected it would be, but to be fair it was also a fair bit more costly than a top tier Grado. The MC preamp alone was 2k.
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I reached the same conclusion many years ago. My jaw dropped the first time I heard a Dynavector MC with an ARC step up, it was far better than I expected it would be, but to be fair it was also a fair bit more costly than a top tier Grado. The MC preamp alone was 2k.
What do you think the top Grado costs - the Statement Reference? :) I recently saw a price of USD3,500!
This is only 0.5mV output (so you need an MC phono stage). And btw, it's no use using a SUT with it - as it needs to be loaded with 47K (that's according to Grado; I wouldn't be surprised if it actually sounded better at 33K. :) ).
Andy
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What do you think the top Grado costs...
I said many years ago - meaning more precisely almost 4 decades ago. :wink:
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you can get excellent results with either a Nagaoka mp200 which is very lively or one of the soundsmith cartridges.
https://www.amazon.com/Nagaoka-Turntable-Cartridge-Elliptocal-Diamond/dp/B06X9GZWCG/ref=asc_df_B06X9GZWCG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312039478953&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18422927793717947623&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1014250&hvtargid=pla-567906385580&psc=1
https://www.sound-smith.com/products/fixed-coil