Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction

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Captainhemo

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #100 on: 10 Dec 2014, 06:22 am »
I just noticed the amp stands.  Great idea!  Gives me some ideas.   :idea:

Yeah  they  were  just quickly thrown toether with some scraps of 1/2" MDF  and leftover 2x2's from a dog house project.  A few quick cuts, some router work, and some black paint . Simple but they work  just   fine,  and my Minibuss found a home on the bottom shelf of one

-jay

ThePriest

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #101 on: 10 Dec 2014, 06:30 am »
Nice work, Jay!

I am really looking forward to get my own pair up and running.
Painting starts in the weekend (mother-in-law is visiting, so I have to have something to do  :lol: ).
The amps are almost ready, one is finished, the box is ready for the other one.

Cheers!

The Priest

bdp24

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #102 on: 10 Dec 2014, 06:34 am »
I just noticed the amp stands.  Great idea!  Gives me some ideas.   :idea:
You don't want to get the Rythmik plate amps too far from the Servo drivers. In fact, the closer the better.

ThePriest

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #103 on: 10 Dec 2014, 06:52 am »
What is 'too far'?

I have kept as much as possible of the cabling from the plate amp itself, so how much speaker cable would be too long? 1 meter? 2?

Cheers,

ThePriest

bdp24

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #104 on: 10 Dec 2014, 09:12 am »
What is 'too far'?

I have kept as much as possible of the cabling from the plate amp itself, so how much speaker cable would be too long? 1 meter? 2?

Cheers,

ThePriest
Good question. Danny has commented on the question before, maybe he will now.

lacro

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #105 on: 10 Dec 2014, 02:05 pm »
Wow Jay!

Are you trying to catch up with Mike? :green: Nice set-up :thumb: It looks like it's a fairly small room for all those speakers, must sound awesome.. What are the big black boxes on the wall, is that room treatments? Also, is that a Crown power amp sitting on the floor?

Danny Richie

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #106 on: 10 Dec 2014, 04:09 pm »
What is 'too far'?

I have kept as much as possible of the cabling from the plate amp itself, so how much speaker cable would be too long? 1 meter? 2?

Cheers,

ThePriest

Shorter is better. I use a SpeakOn connector at the end of the factory wiring coming off of the amp. Then plug that into the female SpeakOn that gets mounted to the back of the H frame.

Captainhemo

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #107 on: 10 Dec 2014, 04:30 pm »
I thought I read in one of the threads that a few feet was okay for  leads to the H-frame.   Mine are 4' using   the 16 ga solid copper  Danny sells.  I use the same connectors Danny mentions but   I have the cables soldered direct tothe   H-frame and the male plug at the end.  Then I mount the female side in the amp box.

Larry
The room is It is  18' x 12', wish it were a couple feet wider. Those are  poly diffusers behind the  OB7's which I hope to eventually replace with some  "MR T" diffusers from PI Audio.   Nope, no Crown amp

-jay

Danny Richie

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #108 on: 10 Dec 2014, 04:49 pm »
A few feet is okay. Shorter is better.

bdp24

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #109 on: 12 Dec 2014, 02:58 am »
I thought I read in one of the threads that a few feet was okay for  leads to the H-frame.   Mine are 4' using   the 16 ga solid copper  Danny sells.  I use the same connectors Danny mentions but   I have the cables soldered direct tothe   H-frame and the male plug at the end.  Then I mount the female side in the amp box.

Larry
The room is It is  18' x 12', wish it were a couple feet wider. Those are  poly diffusers behind the  OB7's which I hope to eventually replace with some  "MR T" diffusers from PI Audio.   Nope, no Crown amp

-jay
12' IS a very common room width. My room is a little wider at 13, but I too would love a foot or two more on each side of the left and right front speakers. My dream room would have a 10' ceiling, with the width and depth in the "Golden Ratio" proportions (see the Cardas site for details) of 1 : 1.6 : 2.6, which would make the width and depth 16' and 26' respectively. Dream is right! The only rooms like that I've been in are the ones Brooks Berdan built for his hi-fi shop (Brooks Berdan Ltd. in Monrovia, CA) and his son Brian Berdan just built for his new shop in Pasadena, CA, Audio Elements. Those dimensions give the most even spread of room modes and lowest resonant signature possible in an enclosed space.

glynnw

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #110 on: 13 Dec 2014, 02:48 am »
I am slowly building one of these sub cabinets with an eye to finishing and ordering the electronics in a month or so.  For the outer walls I am using 2 pieces of 3/4" MDF to get a 1 1/2" wall.  I am using 6 1/2 " as the depth of each woofer well as per the plans  but want to make the outer of the 2 MDF pieces 1 " wider to give a 1/2" overhang on each end to frame a grill cloth.  Will extending the depth of each woofer well by 1/2" seriously change the sound?  I can give up the 1/2" extension - I just think a frame around the grill cloth would look nice. Or should I adjust the size of each wall piece so that the final depth is still only 6 1/2" with a grill attached"?

bdp24

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #111 on: 13 Dec 2014, 06:08 am »
I am slowly building one of these sub cabinets with an eye to finishing and ordering the electronics in a month or so.  For the outer walls I am using 2 pieces of 3/4" MDF to get a 1 1/2" wall.  I am using 6 1/2 " as the depth of each woofer well as per the plans  but want to make the outer of the 2 MDF pieces 1 " wider to give a 1/2" overhang on each end to frame a grill cloth.  Will extending the depth of each woofer well by 1/2" seriously change the sound?  I can give up the 1/2" extension - I just think a frame around the grill cloth would look nice. Or should I adjust the size of each wall piece so that the final depth is still only 6 1/2" with a grill attached"?
I had the exact same idea for my W-frames, and extended the outer 3/4" MDF layer 1" past the inner layer at the front, to allow for an inset 3/4" thick grill frame. It gives the cabinet the look of the 50's-60's (and even 70's) speakers, like Klipsch, AR, Dynaco, Advent, etc. speakers had (Klipsch STILL has that look in it's classic series). That style cabinet (with the grill inset into the front of the cabinet) went out of favor when research discovered the problem of diffraction caused by the sound from the drivers reflecting off of the front edges of the cabinet, solved by having the front baffle not inset into the cab. At subwoofer frequencies, however, diffraction is not a concern. That 6-1/2" depth is a compromise between supporting the lowest possible frequency while not creating too much of a cavity resonance. The depth of the driver cavity doesn't have to be exactly 6-1/2"---You can make it an inch shallower or deeper without incurring a serious penalty in sound quality or quantity.

glynnw

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #112 on: 13 Dec 2014, 05:30 pm »
Thanks.  Just what I needed to hear since 1 of the boards is already glued into place.

bdp24

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #113 on: 14 Dec 2014, 04:44 am »
You may have already noticed this, but there is one mistake in the plans for the H-Frame. The dimension given for the depth of the frame is 13.5", which is incorrect. It is actually 14"---6.5" for each driver cavity plus 1" for the baffle thickness. Unless I'm misunderstanding something!
« Last Edit: 14 Dec 2014, 05:45 am by bdp24 »

Captainhemo

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #114 on: 14 Dec 2014, 06:43 am »
I think the Super-V only used a 3/4" baffle making the depth  13.75".  I don't see the point of making the baffle any thicker as there is really no panel  there to resonate, the coutouts and drivers pretty much take up the whole   area.

If you've got the  material  , making  it thicker isn't going to hurt but  not necessary.

-jay

bdp24

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #115 on: 14 Dec 2014, 06:53 am »
I think the Super-V only used a 3/4" baffle making the depth  13.75".  I don't see the point of making the baffle any thicker as there is really no panel  there to resonate, the coutouts and drivers pretty much take up the whole   area.

If you've got the  material  , making  it thicker isn't going to hurt but  not necessary.

-jay
The 1" spec for the baffle came not from me but from the plans for an H-Frame found in the listing for the GR-12-16FR driver on the GR Research website. I brought it to the OP's attention only in case he is building his H-Frame from those plans, and wanted to let him know that if he uses the 13.5" spec to cut his top piece, it will be 0.5" short. That 13.5" spec, were it to be correct, and assuming that both driver cavities are indeed 6.5" deep, would require the baffle be 0.5" thick, surely not something Danny would suggest.

Captainhemo

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #116 on: 14 Dec 2014, 07:13 am »
I mentioned it only in case the OP is building his H-Frame from the plans found in the GR-12-16FR driver's listing. If he uses the 13.5" spec to cut his top piece, it will be 0.5" too shallow.

Ahh,  you're right, hadn't seen those plans before.  Good catch.   A bit different  than the Super- V drawing

-jay

Danny Richie

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #117 on: 14 Dec 2014, 06:07 pm »
Error noted and corrected.

gab

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Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #118 on: 14 Dec 2014, 07:02 pm »
Error noted and corrected.

I think you missed the note at the top of Pg 3 Front View. It is currently "Top panels is 16” wide and 13.5” deep" and if I understand correctly it should be "Top panels is 16” wide and 14” deep"

gab

Danny Richie

Re: Dual 12" OB H-Frame Construction
« Reply #119 on: 14 Dec 2014, 07:35 pm »
I think you missed the note at the top of Pg 3 Front View. It is currently "Top panels is 16” wide and 13.5” deep" and if I understand correctly it should be "Top panels is 16” wide and 14” deep"

gab

Also noted and corrected.