Help with really poor? setup please.

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DaveWin88

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Help with really poor? setup please.
« on: 17 Oct 2022, 10:24 pm »
Hello
I have my couch up against the back wall. I know it's far from ideal, but do I have any options. I know it would be just a band aid, but I'm OK with that for now. The picture I've added is pretty much how my system is set up (I currently have a pair of open baffle) so that alone was pretty massive. Right now I have a couple of ceiling tiles behind the couch :) believe it or not it made a hell of a difference. It seemed to push the upper mids / highs back to the speaker plane. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you


toocool4

Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #1 on: 17 Oct 2022, 10:39 pm »
From your image, you have room to move your couch forward a bit which will improve things a bit more. Give it a try and see what you think. You can probably move your speakers forward a bit and put them a bit closer together, to keep the distance between the speakers same or less than the distance you are from the speakers. The sound stage may not be as wide, but it will be deeper.

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #2 on: 17 Oct 2022, 11:16 pm »
toocool4, that's a great idea. If I lean in, it does improve. I definitely can and will do that. Here are a couple newer photo's just to show what I have to work with. Thank you toocool4





VinceT

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #3 on: 17 Oct 2022, 11:24 pm »
Have you tried putting your seating position in the corner of the room, and use the opposite corner for components and speakers each side of that? You could probably get away with that with the OB speakers you have now.

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #4 on: 17 Oct 2022, 11:35 pm »
Have you tried putting your seating position in the corner of the room, and use the opposite corner for components and speakers each side of that? You could probably get away with that with the OB speakers you have now.
I have thought of trying that. Here is a photo of what on the other side of the room. I only have the couch :) I thought about going the other way (the room is 15x12) might go that route down the road. Thank you for the advice.



VinceT

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #5 on: 17 Oct 2022, 11:44 pm »
Would certainly open things up with the doorway behind you

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #6 on: 17 Oct 2022, 11:55 pm »
Would certainly open things up with the doorway behind you
I tried it with the couch facing this way, but it just didn't work. Open baffle you really do need the front wall to be even (whats behind the speakers)

artur9

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #7 on: 18 Oct 2022, 02:01 am »
Your couch is right against the wall.  If you're willing to give up a few inches (4 to be precise) then there are acoustic panels that you could put there.  For experimental purposes, you can get some fiberglass or cotton insulation and build the panel yourself.  Something like 2 inches of insulation in a frame of 2x4 where there's a hollow in the panel that is against the wall.  I forget the name of the manufacturer that makes nice looking panels like this.

Alternatively, as diffusion on the back is more a la mode these days, an artsy acoustic diffuser might work there as well.
You'd want one that's mathematically defined (qrd?).  Try searching for "Wall Art Panel Acoustic Diffuser" to see if anything out there is palatable to you.


VinceT

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #8 on: 18 Oct 2022, 04:06 am »
I tried it with the couch facing this way, but it just didn't work. Open baffle you really do need the front wall to be even (whats behind the speakers)

That is a tough room. One thing is the right speaker is also closer to the wall versus the left. You can't change the room, maybe consider changing the couch out for a chair? You could remove that table right of the couch and if you need to keep the couch in that room, move the couch's arm all the way toward that hall way.  Get a chair (use that office chair for now) put it where the TV is and the speakers on the wall right across. In that position you can pull the speakers out into the room little more as well. Your distances to the side wall would be more equal in that arrangement, not have the huge window behind your speakers. Just a thought, not sure if possible. Just need to keep experimenting with it. Best of luck!

JWL.GIK

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #9 on: 18 Oct 2022, 02:14 pm »
Shared living spaces are always tough, both in terms of getting the setup dialed in and also getting enough treatments into the room. For setup I'd experiment -- apart from the challenges of open baffle speakers (especially with getting an accurate bass response), it's good to have the reflection points on the side walls & ceiling and hte front corners behind the speakers available for treatments. Rear wall behind you also help as you've observed (if it's noticeably better with those office ceiling tiles it will be really good with actual treatments).

Let us know how we can help if you are thinking of using GIK treatments, we can do a deeper dive.

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #10 on: 18 Oct 2022, 10:05 pm »
Your couch is right against the wall.  If you're willing to give up a few inches (4 to be precise) then there are acoustic panels that you could put there.  For experimental purposes, you can get some fiberglass or cotton insulation and build the panel yourself.  Something like 2 inches of insulation in a frame of 2x4 where there's a hollow in the panel that is against the wall.  I forget the name of the manufacturer that makes nice looking panels like this.

Alternatively, as diffusion on the back is more a la mode these days, an artsy acoustic diffuser might work there as well.
You'd want one that's mathematically defined (qrd?).  Try searching for "Wall Art Panel Acoustic Diffuser" to see if anything out there is palatable to you.
artur9. Putting something 4" thick would be no problem at all. I might have to look at the art panels. Pretty pricey, but they would serve a dual purpose for sure. Thank you for the advice.

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #11 on: 18 Oct 2022, 10:12 pm »
That is a tough room. One thing is the right speaker is also closer to the wall versus the left. You can't change the room, maybe consider changing the couch out for a chair? You could remove that table right of the couch and if you need to keep the couch in that room, move the couch's arm all the way toward that hall way.  Get a chair (use that office chair for now) put it where the TV is and the speakers on the wall right across. In that position you can pull the speakers out into the room little more as well. Your distances to the side wall would be more equal in that arrangement, not have the huge window behind your speakers. Just a thought, not sure if possible. Just need to keep experimenting with it. Best of luck!
That's really what I should try. Good eye :) Yeah that would absolutely make sense. Both subs could be in the corners. Guys I'm telling you, as uneven the room is? open baffle works amazing. Having the drivers out of phase works wonders in this situation. I'm pretty shocked at how good it already sounds :) Here is a photo (backs up what VinceT recommends) btw the house is only 900 sq feet, so it's pretty small (I'm blessed to have it though) the TV weights 167lbs :)


DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #12 on: 18 Oct 2022, 10:17 pm »
Shared living spaces are always tough, both in terms of getting the setup dialed in and also getting enough treatments into the room. For setup I'd experiment -- apart from the challenges of open baffle speakers (especially with getting an accurate bass response), it's good to have the reflection points on the side walls & ceiling and hte front corners behind the speakers available for treatments. Rear wall behind you also help as you've observed (if it's noticeably better with those office ceiling tiles it will be really good with actual treatments).

Let us know how we can help if you are thinking of using GIK treatments, we can do a deeper dive.
I'm still thinking GIK for my needs right now, just have to weight my options. So I'll probably be reaching out to you guys. Thank you

toocool4

Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #13 on: 18 Oct 2022, 11:08 pm »
Looking at the latest picture you posted, personally I would move the system round and have the speakers backing on to the wall on the right of where the couch is at the moment and having your back where the TV is. You will have a more even symmetry things happening on the left and right of the speakers, yes you will have windows nearer the left speaker but still more even than the big space next to the left speaker you have now.

I will never understand why anyone would have a subwoofer near any wall? Give what I say a try, it will cost you nothing more than your time and if you don’t like it put it back. To make any system sound good, symmetry is key. At the moment you don’t have that. At the moment having a great big space next to your left speakers and sub really plays havoc with the reflection time signature of your system. You really need what is going on the left and right hand side of the speakers to be as close as possible.

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #14 on: 18 Oct 2022, 11:52 pm »
Looking at the latest picture you posted, personally I would move the system round and have the speakers backing on to the wall on the right of where the couch is at the moment and having your back where the TV is. You will have a more even symmetry things happening on the left and right of the speakers, yes you will have windows nearer the left speaker but still more even than the big space next to the left speaker you have now.

I will never understand why anyone would have a subwoofer near any wall? Give what I say a try, it will cost you nothing more than your time and if you don’t like it put it back. To make any system sound good, symmetry is key. At the moment you don’t have that. At the moment having a great big space next to your left speakers and sub really plays havoc with the reflection time signature of your system. You really need what is going on the left and right hand side of the speakers to be as close as possible.
toocoo4,  the layout you suggest is on par with what VinceT is saying. Guys OB speakers if you really never heard one, they have very little sound / bass coming from the side, so they don't have the cancellation like the Tektons had. I hear you guys though, and you are right. I actually put the sub on the couch and got on the floor to come up with this spot. I do agree that the sub in the open will not be the same as the other. I'm giving the layout a try this weekend. Thank you for the advice guys. I'll take all the help I can get.

viggen

Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #15 on: 19 Oct 2022, 03:44 am »
i also would like to see the speakers against the wall where you have the wall clock and chair in front of the tv.  I'd have the speakers 4' from side and 5' from back wall.  Basically, give up half your living room to your speakers.  I never had OB speakers before, but I'd imagine them being farther from wall would cancel out some of the unevenness. 

after looking at pic again, with description above, you should have less unevenness since you'd have solid walls on both sides (well window on left side).

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #16 on: 19 Oct 2022, 10:54 pm »
i also would like to see the speakers against the wall where you have the wall clock and chair in front of the tv.  I'd have the speakers 4' from side and 5' from back wall.  Basically, give up half your living room to your speakers.  I never had OB speakers before, but I'd imagine them being farther from wall would cancel out some of the unevenness. 

after looking at pic again, with description above, you should have less unevenness since you'd have solid walls on both sides (well window on left side).
I agree viggen. Setting it up this weekend. Good thing I don't have to worry about waf :)

DaveWin88

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #17 on: 25 Oct 2022, 09:06 pm »



OK guys, I finally got around to setting up the room the other way. After a bit of settling time (it didn't sound very good for the first hour or so) it's a much better layout for sure. The bass is significantly significantly better. I've since moved the subs from out of the corner by a foot or so than in these photos. The sound stage got taller. I feel the mid bass driver is much better off as the whole presentation seems more balanced. The detail just seems to be more dimensional. Super happy and I feel like I can move forward with some room treatment now. Thank you guys for all the great tips.  btw the speakers are 37 inches from the front wall. I also have the speakers on slate blocks so I can listen to the tweeter off axis a bit.

toocool4

Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #18 on: 25 Oct 2022, 09:26 pm »
Nice one, experimenting is the key. Enjoy  :thumb:

VinceT

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Re: Help with really poor? setup please.
« Reply #19 on: 25 Oct 2022, 09:28 pm »
Looks great Dave

I have a couch in my room too, I have the couch legs on sliders and move it back when I do any critical listening. You could pull that couch back toward your hallway when things get serious. I would try maybe putting those subs each side of the amp between the speakers as well. You could also raise them up and decouple off the floor on some milk crates and keep playing around with placement.  I am sure they will continue to sound better as you make your tweaks.