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I've owned hybrids for 10 years, a 2012 Lincoln MKZ, and a 2020 Toyota Avalon. Both have been very trouble free, Lincoln averaged 37mpg and Toyota 40, 450 mile range, both respectable for their size, luxury, and comfort.I keep an eye on EV development, but for my purposes EVs are not nearly as practical a solution- yet.I like taking road trips in the open spaces of the Northwest (live in Seattle), and planning how to hit charging stations and planning around charging times is very inconvenient, whereas gas stations are easy to find everywhere. I can't charge at home.Until longer range/fast charging batteries are common (Toyota has a 750 mile ss battery on the way) I won't be interested. These future developments may well make existing EVs obsolete very rapidly, making total cost of ownership very expensive. Who will want to pay up for a used EV with 250 mile range when there is 750 miles available? I think my Avalon hybrid will be very useful for another 10 years or so. By then things should settle out in the EV space, including infrastructure shortfalls.
I agree, people will buy full EV's when they are better, cheaper and more convenient than a gas car. We're getting closer to that point now but, IMO, we are not there yet. Right now, for some people it IS better/cheaper/convenient (like me), and for others it's not. As we were coming back from the mountains in my Model Y the other day, I was joking with my son that he'll live to see the day that gas stations are obsolete and will simply disappear like video stores. His response was "What's a video store"?
Respectfully disagree. The battery technology is a real bottleneck. Besides, the rare earth materials have to be purchased from the CCP (not good). The electric grid is not set up to handle the entire country using EVs. The cost of doing so is prohibitive. Not to mention the environmental impact of dealing with spent batteries. EV's are actually more environmentally worse than the current ICE cars, when all the factors are considered. There is also the hidden costs of road maintenance, as EV's are heavier. They also wear out tires on average over legacy cars. There are use cases for EVs, but the push to mandate is irresponsible at best. Then let's talk the trucking industry. They have been sounding the alarm about long distance transport/cost if forced to switch to all EVs. If you think inflation is bad now (and it is) just with if this mandate actually goes through. Once the reality of this is actually realized by the general public, opposition will continue to grow. It's already well over 50%. [size=78%] [/size]Fuel Cells make a lot more sense in the long run.
I appreciate your point of view and optimism, but it fails to address the real issues with the cost and upkeep of the power grid, actual long term costs of logistics and upkeep of delivering goods , the longer environmental impacts, and that is just for starters. I'm still against forcing this solution on the public, and that position will not change. Still argue that Fuel Cells and Nuclear power are the better engineering and scientific answers to fossil fuel.BTW, my car is a Chrysler Van, made in Windsor, Ontario.
EVs are currently about 1% of all vehicles sold in the US. Scaling up battery production will take time. Manufacturers are only going to make EVs if they can sell them. I think they are overestimating demand for them.Customers are fickle and a segment of the population wants nothing to do with an EV. EVs are a stop gap until fuel cells and hydrogen technology improves.Currently Roadwork is funded via Motor Fuel Tax based on gasoline purchases. Since EVs are heavier, they wear out the road faster. States will be coming up with other methods of taxing EV owners to contribute to road maintenance. In IL it costs more to license an EV vehicle than a ICE vehicle.I don't have an EV or Hybrid. My wife likes convertibles and there are no EV convertibles available yet. I have an SUV. It was not available as a hybrid. On other vehicles the cost delta between the Hybird version and the regular version didn't cost out well. We use it to tow a boat, so we need something with towing capacity. I know that some EVs have towing capability, but it really reduces range.
Well, I could talk in detail about how the grid is actually fairly robust and not fragile and how the transition is going to be even better/easier/cheaper than most people think it will be, there's already really good data on all of that and it's all moving in a positive direction.But, based on the bolded part above, your mind is already made up and won't be changed regardless of the actual facts. So, I won't bother.
Personally, I'd never buy a Tesla because Elon. EVs are definitely the way forward, but imo the tech isn't there for large scale adaption. The initial investment is currently too high in terms of energy and materials unless you're looking at a short-range city car or bike. This is why hybrids are the best current solution, they don't need huge batteries. When battery tech provides several times the energy density it does now, they will be more feasible. For now, Toyota is right and hybrids are the best solution. The issue is their own Prius, introduced in 1997 as a very ugly and slow car, it tarnished the image of hybrids. If Toyota had started out with the same philosophy on the Prius as the current model... it combines great looks and good performance with excellent efficiency... hybrids would be much more popular. Elon somehow made EVs desirable with the model-S, imo it's ugly and ridiculously heavy and expensive, but because he made them with powerful motors they were accepted. Elon, for all his issues, realized that cars are emotional purchases and marketed his EVs accordingly and very successfully. The new Prius looks great, but it took Toyota 25 years to understand the Prius' largest issue was simply due to a lack of style and power. Sure, many don't care, but the Prius ostracized auto enthusiasts in a way Tesla never did. As far as weight the lowest end Tesla M3 is the only one with a reasonable weight, M3P is 4250 lbs, and on average Teslas weigh a lot more than ICE. Teslas in general have far too large a battery and motor to have any sort of environmental cred, they are luxury vehicles for affluent folks who feel less guilty buying EV vs ICE.
The grid would need a total re-wire if everyone owned EV's and wanted to charge in their homes. Not practical. People who live in condos/apartments can't charge either. The amount of power required to fast charge a car is far more than the current wiring in housing development can handle. This issue is not well understood by the average citizen Again, the issue of logistics with trucking is being ignored. The trucking industry simply will not be able to comply. Hydrogen can be made in mass quantities with the appropriate investments in Nuclear power, which has to happen. Pushing EVs with conventional power sources or wind/solar is not logical or practical. the meme of coal rail cars with the caption "EV fuel" is sadly a bit too accurate. Solar panels are yet another long term environmental problem waiting to happen.
Ask the chick from "Charmed". She tried to call Elon a "Nazi" because she didn't like him buying Twitter. She said she's gonna buy a VW.
Currently Roadwork is funded via Motor Fuel Tax based on gasoline purchases. Since EVs are heavier, they wear out the road faster. States will be coming up with other methods of taxing EV owners to contribute to road maintenance. In IL it costs more to license an EV vehicle than a ICE vehicle.
You won't buy an EV because you don't like a person? That's a really non-rational line of thinking. From what I understand, the prior leader of Toyota (the grandson of the founder) was a real dick too, does that mean I should never buy a Toyota? I mean if you don't like Elon Musk fine but its a stupid reason. I agree with you, Hybrids are better than pure gas cars. But they are not better than pure EV's for the reasons I've been laboriously pointing out. Have you not been reading anything I've posted about current battery sourcing and the localization of supply chains? I've posted about it in detail in the previous posts. Hybrids are more efficient than gas cars but not nearly as efficient as EV's, and you can easily see that in their MPG ratings. A typical gas car has a MPG between 20 and 30. A hybrid between 40 and 50. My model y (a big ass SUV) has an MPG rating of well over 100. Clearly pure EVs are WAY more efficient. If you actually want to use energy wisely, a pure EV is over 2x better than a hybrid, which itself is about 2x better than a regular gas car.
Also, homes do not need a complete re-wire to charge an EV. Any home that has a washer/dryer already has the circuitry needed to charge an EV. It's called level 2 charging, it's only 220v and 60amps which the large, large majority of homes already have. It charges at a rate of 40 miles per hour being plugged in. No re-wiring needed. I know this from personal experience because I have a home built in 1956 and it was re-wired in the 90's to put in a washing machine and a dryer. I just ran a line from the circuit box to my garage. Easy peasy.
I was referring to the amount of current to conduct a "fast charge". There are studies out that state that the grid would need to be re-done to support this on a mass scale. Not to mention the generation of the extra power required. Hope that clears the issue up.My major issue is the government trying to force EVs on everyone. The majority of the population is against the mandate, and I suspect once the Washington DC powers change, there will be changes to the mandates. I'm all for letting the free market decide what consumers want. I'm painfully aware of the Hydrogen arguments. This is another are where if the free market didn't have so much government interference, Nuclear power could be provided at a much lower cost to the public. This would translate to the eventual coast of producing Hydrogen to come down. We are talking longer term, over 10 to 20 years. Then there is still the issue with trucking. Mandating EV trucking is a disaster waiting to happen. This is a more complex issue than the average person realizes.
No, I won't buy a TESLA because of Elon. I'd buy an EV from a different company. Elon crossed the line with me, he gives a platform to people who are evil, anti-American, and just plain unintelligent imo. My goals also don't align, populating Mars is the stupidest thing I've ever heard given current tech. There are far better ways to help humanity. The fact you actually believe all the info you posted is the real issue here. Not saying all of it is off, but the base assumptions used to make many of these claims are biased. Bias is what this comes down to, cars are so emotional most people can't be impartial. The base assumptions used to calculate EVs are 2x more efficient vs hybrids is pure garbage. Toyota agrees with this view, imo they are absolutely correct. Who do you believe? Your questionable sources, including Tesla, who has a stake in selling pure EVs, or Toyota, one of the greatest engineering and manufacturing forces the world has ever seen, who is a pioneer of EV tech and introduced the hybrid Prius 26 years ago? A company who could have a ton of EVs on the market right now if it was actually true that EVs are indeed more efficient and practical vs hybrids. But they don't and are very clear about why. Sorry, but they are right and you and the sources you quoted are wrong.
