AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: JohnR on 15 Feb 2017, 01:40 pm
-
We're going on tour!!
To enrol in the tour, please see Pi Peregrination 2017 C&C Tour and Contest (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149149).
This thread is for technical info. FAQ and other info follows below.
What the heck is a "peregrination"?
According to the dictionary, it is "a journey, especially a long or meandering one." This seems to be fitting not only for the tour itself, but also for our own journeys in audio and hifi.
Why are you doing this?
For two reasons. One is to encourage experimentation and discussion of "cheap and cheerful". The second is because many people are interested in networked audio but don't know where to start, so here's a (very) cheap way to get some hands-on experience.
What do I need to be able to use it?
- A home network with ability to connect the unit to it via Ethernet.
- A reasonably modern computer. A iOS or Android phone or tablet for the control app is optional.
- Music files of your own. We'll provide some freely available samples on a USB stick. But to go further, you will need to have your own music library as files. Or be prepared to start ripping your CDs.
What is it?
It's a Raspberry Pi 2 (bottom board), together with a Kali reclocker board (https://www.allo.com/sparky/kali-reclocker.html) (middle) and a Piano DAC (https://www.allo.com/sparky/piano-dac.html) (top board).
The Raspberry Pi 2 is technically superseded by the Raspberry Pi 3 but for our purposes it's the same.
We're also sending along a little 5V linear power supply to use from here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132023725092).
The cool part of this "stack" is the Kali board. It actually does nothing but "clean up" the clock and data signals coming out of the Raspberry Pi. It is also by far the most expensive board in the stack.
-
Setting up/getting started
Physical setup is fairly simple. You will need to connect
- DC power from PSU to streamer (middle board)
- Ethernet cable to streamer (bottom board)
- RCA cable from streamer (top board) to preamp/headphone amp
- IEC power cable to PSU (not supplied in package, just use one of your own)
Then turn on the power.
The streamer is controlled via a web interface. Enter http://runeaudio.local into your browser's URL/address bar. This is known to work with:
- Safari on Mac
- Edge on Win10
This is known to not work with (so don't use one of these):
- Opera on Mac
- Chrome on Android (and probably not on Android at all)
(Worst comes to worst, you will need to figure out the IP address of the streamer. Ask in the thread if you get stuck.)
You should get a screen that looks like this:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157949&size=large)
The screenshot shows the popdown menu at the top right. Take a look through here but please don't change settings without discussing them in this thread first. (Doing so may make it difficult for the next person to get it going.)
-
Playing music from USB stick
- Plug a USB stick into one of the USB ports. (You should have gotten one with the Pi, which we sent with some samples.)
- Click on the Library tab at the bottom. You will see:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157951&size=large)
- Click on the USB storage item, then "drill down" into the file system.
- When you see an album you want to play, use the "three bars" icon over on the right:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157952&size=large)
-
Playing music over the network
- Install minimServer on your computer: http://minimserver.com/installing.html.
- Add the path to your music library in the properties panel:
(http://www.hifizine.com/files/2015/12/T2.-Minim-Server-Properties.png) - Install BubbleUpnp server on your computer: http://www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver/#download_and_installation
- In your web browser, go to http://localhost:58050 (http://localhost:58050). In the Media Renderers tab, click on RuneAudioUPnP and check the boxes as shown below. Also enter a name for "Room" - I have used "Rune-tidal". This is the one to select from within the control app.)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157945&size=large)
- Install a control app on your computer. You can also/instead install on a phone or tablet. Here are recommended options:
- Mac: Linn Kazoo (https://www.linn.co.uk/software#kazoo)
- Windows: Not sure but Linn Kazoo (https://www.linn.co.uk/software#kazoo) probably OK
- iPhone/iPad: Lumin App (http://www.luminmusic.com/app.html)
- Android: BubbleUPnP (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp&hl=en) (may cost a few $)
- Use the control app to select your MinimServer Library and tell it to stream to the Rune-tidal streamer. This varies depending on the app but it should be fairly easy to figure out. If you get stuck, post in this thread.
- If you have a Tidal account, enter your username/password in the control app. You should then be able to stream from Tidal directly to the Pi!
This is how it looks streaming Tidal:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157944&size=large)
-
Advanced stuff
Can I plug in a USB hard drive?
Yes but only if it's either self-powered, or connected via a powered USB hub. Please don't connect a bus-powered drive directly to the Pi.
I plugged a hard drive into a powered USB hub and nothing happens.
The drive has to be formatted in FAT.
Can I use WiFi?
Not with what we shipped. It's entirely possible but for the sake of keeping the network configuration and setup simple, we are purposely not shipping a unit with WiFi support.
OK but I REALLY want to use WiFi
Sure. Try plugging in a Wifi dongle into one of the USB ports, and then accessing the WiFi settings (while connected to a wired network). If you are successful, you will be able to unplug the Ethernet cable and still connect to the web interface and stream audio. Please be sure to delete your Wifi password before shipping the unit on to the next person.
Can I try Volumio, Moode, etc?
Sure, but please use your own SD card and put the supplied one back in before shipping to the next person. (You will have to figure out which I2S driver works with the Piano DAC.)
Can I connect a USB DAC?
If you like, although if you are going to do that you can just buy a vanilla Pi. If you do connect a USB DAC, please check that the MPD settings are set back to the correct driver before shipping it on.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157950)
Can I play hi-res files?
Sure, up to 192k works fine. You will see the lights on the Kali (middle board) change to show the sample rate. I'm not sure about DxD as I seem to have lost the two sample files I have.
DSD?
No, it doesn't work properly. The Kali+Piano don't play DSD natively and the Pi doesn't seem to have enough power to convert from DSD on the fly.
-
Everything else
Why does the power supply say 4.96?
Who knows. As long as it's somewhere near 5, it's probably working correctly.
It doesn't work. What do I do?
Post in this thread and we will see if we can help you debug it. Worst comes to worst, we'll have to ask you to ship it to someone who can sort it out and/or ship you some new parts.
How do I buy one / make my own?
You will need:
- Raspberry Pi 2 or 3. For example (https://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Pi-RASP-PI-3-Model-Motherboard/dp/B01CD5VC92).
- A Kali + Piano bundle from allo.com (https://allo.com/sparky/bundle-kali-piano.html). You might want to add the "case" (https://allo.com/sparky/acrylic-case.html) to your cart as well.
- Power supply. You can use a 5V wallwart, but this is what we shipped. (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=132023725092#ht_6522wt_1140) If you order this, be sure to ask for a 2.5mm power plug (in fact, they just throw in a 2.1->2.5mm adapter). CORRECTION/NOTE: the link is now to a different version of the supply. At any rate it chosen to keep shipping weight down and may not be suitable for general purpose use i.e. if you plug anything into the Pi. For general purpose use a higher spec supply like this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/25VA-Full-discrete-linear-power-supply-25W-External-regulated-power-DC-5V-24V-/132021196541) or this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/35VA-Linear-power-supply-USB-AMP-DAC-External-power-supply-With-Digital-LPS-35W-/132021196108) is probably more suitable.
- A micro-SD card to write the OS and application to. You'll probably want to get one with an SD card adapter to make it easy to plug into your computer for writing. May as well get two or three so you can easily try different distros (RuneAudio, Volumio, Moode, plus the various Squeezebox type players).
- Other/random/miscellaneous. Be prepared to source additional board spacers, screws, connectors/adapters etc.
Total cost as listed above should come out to around $200 or a smidgen over.
I don't like the PCM5122, can I use a different DAC with the Kali?
Probably, as long as it has I2S input and you can figure out the wiring.
So if this is the "2017" tour, is it an annual event?
We hope so. Let's see how it goes :)
-
Great idea :thumb:
I will follow with interest.
-
This is a great idea, John. I will look for the thread to open.
-
Thanks guys, it finally cleared Customs, and here is the thread to enrol in the tour: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149149
:thumb:
-
I haven't been successful at mounting my network file share from my NAS. Using SMB/CIFS fileshare protocol. Used the IP address and specified a directory. Always gives me this error message:
mount error(22): Invalid argument Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)
Any ideas? (I'm impatient today otherwise I would spend extra time chasing things down.)
Thanks!
-dave
-
Wrong directory path? Perhaps check here: http://www.runeaudio.com/documentation/runeui/sources/#network-mounts
The two methods I'd recommend though are earlier in this thread.
-
Hi, any luck?
I've just tried it with an SMB network drive (running on another Raspberry Pi :thumb: ) and here are the settings I used:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=162266)
This method of accessing files works fine, but I would in general recommend the method using MinimServer (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148609.msg1589384#msg1589384) etc for better UI, Tidal integration, stream to multiple devices etc.
-
This is really exciting and thanks for doing it. At some point I want to set up a streamer/server independent of my computer (probably Pi-based), so I am following topics like this. For others considering the same, there is now a competitor to the Raspberry called the "Orange Pi", supposedly with lower prices.
-
Hi dB Cooper, sure no worries. Are you on the tour? PM Dan (Letitroll98) - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149149
There are quite a number of SBCs now ("single board computers"). I haven't looked at the orange one at all. Actually the people (allo.com) who make the reclocker board and DAC that was sent on tour make one themselves. The catch (if you are not creating your own system build from scratch) is whether the distro/player you want runs on it. For those interested in a player to connect to a USB DAC, the ODroid C1+ may be a good option as it supposedly has better USB hardware and RuneAudio and Volumio have images for it (I have one but haven't compared directly ...)
Lots of fun for C&C peoples :thumb:
-
Hi, any luck?
Not much JohnR. Mainly because I didn't have time to fiddle with it.
Thankfully, I like sample tracks you had on the USB key and I played a bit of Radiohead files copied to another USB key I had. So had some good time to listen and compare.
If this thing gets packaged up in a nice case with some fancy schmancy eyecandy, I really think you could make a nice profit selling these things at 100% markup! :green:
From the days of using the first version of the Logitech Squeezebox, this unit is something I might have heavily considered for a streamer if I didn't already have a microRendu!
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
-
Hi, no worries. I'm not sure if "you could make a nice profit" is referring to me but just to be clear I'm not selling anything :)
-
John-
If I wanted to use my dac but just use the Pi I can do that; right? I would just need #1 above. Can I use Roon and just use the Pi as the streamer?
-
I have an RP3 so im ewating to hear some impressions before ordering the reclocker and the DAC. Maybe I will finally be able to play my music without the use of a full fledged Windows desktop PC
-
jtwrace,
At a minimum, you would need to load different software to use Roon.
DietPi (http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5) uses a stripped down version of Linux and comes with lots of software to use with different programs. It has the software to turn any SBC into a Roon bridge.
A Raspberry Pi, alone, may not be the best platform to use to stream to a DAC. There are some concerns about the USB ports. There are some HATS that offer improved digital outputs with SP/DIF.
If digital output from USB is wanted, the Odroid-C2 (http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G145457216438) might be a better choice. It can also run DietPi and serve as a Roon bridge.
-
Re Roon, I'm using the HifiBerry DIGI+ board with their Roon image, easy to set up.
For USB out, I've had issues with both DietPi and the Roon installer (http://kb.roonlabs.com/LinuxInstall), on both RPi and an ODroid C1+. I'll try again at some point, but at any rate YMMV... :)
-
I am using a Pi3 running Volumio to a Schiit Modi DAC via USB. I have it setup as airport end point from iTunes. It seems to work fine.
-
Hi WC, I was referring specifically to USB output with RoonBridge (not just on the RPi but other ARM7 boards as well... in my experience).
-
Hi WC, I was referring specifically to USB output with RoonBridge (not just on the RPi but other ARM7 boards as well... in my experience).
I had heard that not all the Pi music software works the same. There could be an issue with RoonBridge. If I had experienced any issues with the USB when I first set it up I would have added a hat board with digital out and either bought a DAC with a Toslink/Coax connection or just ran it into my AVR receiver.
-
Hi WC, I do suspect it is a RoonBridge issue but have not had time to look into it further. Perhaps there is something that needs to be tweaked in the ALSA driver settings or something. I haven't had issues with running the USB output with Volumio or RuneAudio (which is not anything to do with Roon in case the question arises for anyone).
[Edit: ALSA not ALSO :P ]
-
I currently have the tour Pi. With the installed software, I am also having a problem getting the unit to see my music files on my network.
It plays the files on the USB stick with no trouble and it sounds very good. I got in touch with JohnR to see if it would be okay if I tried some other software. He said no problem.
Right now I am running Ropieee (http://www.ropieee.org/) to use the Pi as a Roon Bridge using the USB outputs.
Pez has loaned me his iFi Micro iDSD Black Label and the system is sounding very, very good. It is early days yet and I hope to try a few other variations.
For now, this combo may be very hard to beat.
Thanks for sending out the Pi and hats on tour.
-
Cool, thanks Wayne. I'll give Ropieee a try :thumb:
For non-Roon networked playback, I recommend using minimserver rather than a direct mount, and a control app like Lumin, Kazoo or BubbleUPnP. I documented how to do this here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148609.msg1589384#msg1589384
-
A quick update on Ropieee. I contacted the author of the software and asked about adding support for the Piano and Kali duo. This morning there was a new image available to download. I did so and installed it and the entire stack is now working, playing Roon.
I will probably try out some of the builds that support Logitech Media Server as well.
Thanks again. This is a lot of fun finding a low priced component that sounds very good and is easy to operate.
-
Cool, great news about the Roon support :thumb:
-
Hi John,
I am having an issue with the Pi and my display. It's an older Samsung and I am seeing the boot-up and subsequent rune login which after a few seconds closes and the rune interface opens. All the while the display is flashing the desktop over the left two-thirds of the area then the same desktop flashes over the right two-thirds. Just flashes back and forth like that continually and there is a small rainbow square in the upper right hand corner of the rune interface slightly over and left of the "Menu" button. Not sure what to do about this.
Also I connected a bluetooth keboard and mouse but that does not seem to work. Does this require a touch-screen display?
Thanks,
Jake
-
Hi Jake,
I'm far from an expert, so take what I say with a grain of salt:
The rainbow square is an indication that the Raspberry Pi is underpowered. The Piano/Kali combo requires a 5 Volt 3 amp (15W) PSU, but the one supplied supplies only 1.6 amps (which is only 8W)-- at least according to the ebay page. I'm a little confused by that, since it's advertised as 15W. Having the board underpowered like that is a recipe for corrupting the SD card, which is possibly why the monitor is flashing like that.
Also, I'm not familiar with Rune, but Volumio (for instance) isn't supposed to be compatible with a monitor. You connect to it a browser on your laptop/desktop/iPhone/etc. In your browser address bar, type "http://runeaudio.local". In theory, that should bring up the "WebUI."
Also, the RPi 2 does not have built in Bluetooth. So, unless you've plugged in a Bluetooth dongle, then it's got nothing to connect to. And if you have connected a dongle, it's probably (possibly) drawing more power than it can handle.
Anyway, like I said, I'm no expert. It's just my interpretation from my limited experience. Take it as you will.
-
OK. I think that is my my misunderstanding of how this works. I assumed I needed to connect keyboard mouse and monitor to see the rune interface but it appears I am supposed to do that through a web browser on my PC? Like a remote desktop?
The keyboard/mouse came with the USB dongle but I'll bet you are right, too much for the little Pi. And if I am supposed to somehow remote into the Pi then I assume the computer I am using will provide the I/O capability to control rune.
I'll try starting over.
-
I am not part of the tour, but wanted to weigh in on the Raspberry Pi. I have the series 3 running Rune Music Server, but I am using it basically as a renderer. I have an iFi 5v power supply. I don't hear noise from the usb and I have compared this to the Sonore mRendu. I am still using JRiver as the server and can upsample to 24/352. It is very easy to set up and Rune has several user friendly settings. I thought Volumio was less dynamic IMO. So far, I am not a Roon fan yet. One thing I learned: Power surges will corrupt the sd card and you will need to reformat the card and reload the download. It is quite easy. I was leaving the Pi on all the time and the power company did some change work in the area. Now I shut the Pi down when I am done listening and unplug it. No issues.
Does anyone have a download for the Cubox i4 pro? Rune is still working on this one.
Enjoy!
-
Update - Up and running! Listening to the onboard NIN right now. Exploring the interface in an attempt to access more music.
Thanks, megabigeye, for helping. Thanks to JohnR for doing this. It's pretty cool!
-
So far using USB sticks is no problem. Have yet to actually stream from the web or another computer. I do not have a NAS so is it possible to configure rune to see a network drive on a Mac or Win 10 PC?
-
What player did you use before? Your player on your computer can become a server. You should be able to see it under MPD. I had to set my JRiver to server before I set up the Pi. You will need to allow access through your network. I am NOT an expert so read all you can.
http://www.runeaudio.com/documentation/runeui/playback/
-
Thank you, tubeburner, I do not have a player app on my Win 10 machine amd I use a dedicated Mac Mini as a server for my audio system. Player is iTunes. The Mac Mini is not part of this experiment.
As of now I am playing tunes from the included USB stick and one I copied some known tunes onto. Still haven't figured out how to actually stream from the internet.
-
Glad you got it going :thumb: I guess the power supply may be a bit marginal for general purpose use (was trying to keep shipping weight down)! I'll add a note to the earlier page.
You should be able to mount a network drive, e.g. this post (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148609.msg1607915#msg1607915). However the earlier poster was not able to.
My preferred method for network streaming is using MinimServer (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148609.msg1589384#msg1589384) etc for better UI, Tidal integration, stream to multiple devices etc.
It is possible to turn on Airplay in the settings, although I don't recommend or use it.
-
It is possible to turn on Airplay in the settings, although I don't recommend or use it.
Why do you not recommend AirPlay?
-
Because it doesn't work that well... the method I recommend is on the first page of this thread :thumb: