Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?

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S Clark

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Wiring for headphones differs from wiring for interconnects which differs from wiring for power cords which differs from wiring for speakers.

Would internal wiring for woofers have different optimization than wiring for tweeters?  In a line source, would any differences be magnified?

Speedskater

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Only wire gage and mechanical differences would matter. Things like solderability and flexability. At audio frequencies, wire is not vary demanding.

Speedskater

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For inside the loudspeaker enclosure, I would use stranded tin-plated copper wire. Probably course stranded, fine strand might be too flexible and it's hard to solder all those tiny strands. For a crossover network you could use solid copper (tin-plated if available).

FullRangeMan

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Would internal wiring for woofers have different optimization than wiring for tweeters?
It will depend on the personal taste and the hearing ability/age of the ears, I would perfer Neotec solid copper Teflon UPOCC awg 12 or 14 from Sonic Craft for all drivers, stranded wire seems not reliable over the years, there is plenty of used interconencts with two years old for sale.

Speedskater

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Oh dear.

S Clark

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Ok, back to the original question. 
Would there be a benefit to different gauges for woofers and tweeters?   

jonbee

Would internal wiring for woofers have different optimization than wiring for tweeters?
It will depend on the personal taste and the hearing ability/age of the ears, I would perfer Neotec solid copper Teflon UPOCC awg 12 or 14 from Sonic Craft for all drivers, stranded wire seems not reliable over the years, there is plenty of used interconencts with two years old for sale.
In general, I've found sonic differences between wires are mostly tonal in nature. Larger wires on woofers often tighten up the bass compared to smaller, but that is not always desired for different speakers.
I'm using the above mentioned Neotec 20 ga. for the tweeters on my Revel M105s, which smoothed and opened the top end some compared to the industrial grade stock wiring. 13 ga. Goertz M1 on the woofers did tighten and focus the bass some.
I've used these wires in the past in these roles to good effect.
To me wires and cables are like spices in cooking, whether the final effect is good or bad is dependent on many other things, including the taste of the listener.

S Clark

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Thanks for the input. I'm changing caps in my crossovers and think I'll rewire them at the same time.   
These are Danny R's old LS9 line source speakers, so there's lot of drivers and lots of wire and connections.   
I'll look into some OCC wire in different gauges. 

BobM

You may need a larger gauge for the woofer, just because of its power requirements, but I would stick with the same brand cable for both drivers. And if someone tells you wire doesn;t sound different, just ignore them and listen for yourself. You don;t need Nordost, but definitely get something decent and not Home Depot tin plated copper.

VinceT

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Thanks for the input. I'm changing caps in my crossovers and think I'll rewire them at the same time.   
These are Danny R's old LS9 line source speakers, so there's lot of drivers and lots of wire and connections.   
I'll look into some OCC wire in different gauges.


I look forward to your findings. My LS9s our completely stock AV123. When I do the no rez I may as well do it all at one time since i will have the drivers out. Are you sticking with all copper wire? What caps are you considering?

S Clark

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #10 on: 21 Nov 2022, 03:41 pm »
I'll be replacing the primary tweeter cap with Mundorf Silver/Gold in oil, then bypassing the second tweeter cap with Miflex copper.  The internal wiring between drivers will be replaced with Ohno continuous cast copper... from whoever can supply it cheapest.   I think I'll use Danny's binding post.  If interested, Sonic Craft has the 8.2uF cap on sale (after I had bought mine  :duh:)

jonbee

Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #11 on: 22 Nov 2022, 05:35 am »
partsconnexion, sonic craft and vh audio are worth checking out. I've used them all. I think I bought my neotech from vh audio.

wushuliu

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #12 on: 22 Nov 2022, 07:09 pm »
Ok, back to the original question. 
Would there be a benefit to different gauges for woofers and tweeters?

Yes. In general I'd recommend as large a gauge as is manageable for woofers. I aim for ~14awg or even 12awg for 6-8in woofers. Bass response/dynamics should be noticeable compared to say typical 18awg or 20awg found in retail. Tweeters I like solid core, maybe 2x 21awg. I think solid core vs stranded is noticeable for tweeters and I also prefer a larger combined gauge. Imaging tends to be more precise with solid core. Science wise, one can say the overall increased gauges reduces resistance to the amp and provides benefits that entails.

There are caveats. Someone like Planet10 may recommend very small gauge for certain single driver and amp setups because, again, of the resistance which in those cases would experience an increase. But that's a more niche approach.

My personal experience with the teflon Neotech is that the top end is too prominent. Has that teflon upper sheen. But lot of folks like that. I like Jupiter/cotton wire or even the regular PVC neotech OCC for a more 'natural' or relaxed presentation.

None of this is set in stone. As usual, synergy and personal preference. It's worth experimenting and comparing though. Results may surprise you.

Personally I can't stand silver-plated wire, especially for internal wiring. Too much top end tizz and hash. Been there done that.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #13 on: 22 Nov 2022, 11:09 pm »
My personal experience with the teflon Neotech is that the top end is too prominent. Has that teflon upper sheen.
It was a thin/slim gauge ? or happens with thick gauges also?

S Clark

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #14 on: 23 Nov 2022, 03:01 am »
My personal experience with the teflon Neotech is that the top end is too prominent. Has that teflon upper sheen.
It was a thin/slim gauge ? or happens with thick gauges also?
It's available in PVC and even bare.  I'd prefer both to teflon.  Sonic Craft is closed for a week or so. When they re open I'll order some.   

FullRangeMan

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #15 on: 23 Nov 2022, 03:17 am »
Its would be great if PVC was better sound than Teflon which are expensive,
I noted the PVC red jacket are stiffer than the Teflon on Neotech.
I suspect bare wire will oxidize fast.
« Last Edit: 23 Nov 2022, 04:30 am by FullRangeMan »

wushuliu

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #16 on: 23 Nov 2022, 05:49 pm »
I noted the PVC red jacket are stiffer than the Teflon on Neotech.

Are you sure? IIRC it was the opposite, PVC was much more pliable - but maybe it's changed since I last purchased.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #17 on: 23 Nov 2022, 11:50 pm »
Are you sure? IIRC it was the opposite, PVC was much more pliable - but maybe it's changed since I last purchased.
Yes both are from Neotech but I had not used the PVC yet.

JakeJ

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Re: Internal speaker wiring- different wire for different speaker?
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 01:35 am »
Yes. In general I'd recommend as large a gauge as is manageable for woofers. I aim for ~14awg or even 12awg for 6-8in woofers. Bass response/dynamics should be noticeable compared to say typical 18awg or 20awg found in retail. Tweeters I like solid core, maybe 2x 21awg. I think solid core vs stranded is noticeable for tweeters and I also prefer a larger combined gauge. Imaging tends to be more precise with solid core. Science wise, one can say the overall increased gauges reduces resistance to the amp and provides benefits that entails.

There are caveats. Someone like Planet10 may recommend very small gauge for certain single driver and amp setups because, again, of the resistance which in those cases would experience an increase. But that's a more niche approach.

My personal experience with the teflon Neotech is that the top end is too prominent. Has that teflon upper sheen. But lot of folks like that. I like Jupiter/cotton wire or even the regular PVC neotech OCC for a more 'natural' or relaxed presentation.

None of this is set in stone. As usual, synergy and personal preference. It's worth experimenting and comparing though. Results may surprise you.

Personally I can't stand silver-plated wire, especially for internal wiring. Too much top end tizz and hash. Been there done that.

I agree with wush overall.  I think the wire is the most important factor, metal purity, casting method, surface polishing, etc.  Next is, I think, insulation as it is the dielectric part of the formula.  I also do not like teflon due the difficulty in stripping and manipulating into the final product.

My latest cable experiment is made up of Neotech's new NEMOS 3080 and Viborg BFA bananas all around.  You can check the wire out here.  I found the Viborg connectors on Amazon and they are well made.  One can make a set of internally bi-wired, I made mine single wire.  I will also say that because this is a solid ribbon it has all the extra difficulties in manipulation of any solid core wire, like Romex.  Probably won't make another set.





« Last Edit: Today at 04:31 pm by JakeJ »