Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!

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whydontumarryit

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #20 on: 16 Nov 2022, 10:09 pm »
It is TMR's listing.

If these were a smoking deal at $5900 what do you call $3500? What's going on here?

/mp

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #21 on: 17 Nov 2022, 02:01 pm »
New vs. used.....

whydontumarryit

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #22 on: 17 Nov 2022, 11:21 pm »


I'm just wondering how with premium components and a substantial enclosure and seemingly favorable subjective opinions that a profit can be made considering that the music room is selling these for $3500 and definitely still making money.

Highlighting the swindle of the low tech sector of audio every tom, dick, and harry can squeeze their way into with the promise of superior fidelity and do it with little overhead making the venture viable even on a cottage industry scale by vying for those handful of suckers with 4 figures burning a hole in their pocket these Liquids at this price seem too good to be true. Granted, value in audio has never been better, it's just that the more interest devoted to the hi-end the more aware you are of the obvious advantage being taken of some of us less aware of industry methods.
Obviously deals can be had. What is disturbing to me is that here we have speakers reasonably priced vs performance available (comparatively a good deal although no where near my current panacea the KEF LS60W at $7K) and a phono preamp also used for demonstration that costs $20K and Fremer's question about total system cost sidelined due to complications in performing simple addition. :) (come on, that was pretty funny). besides that, I noticed that Klaus seems to be quite the charmer.

So, what was the total system cost for the CAF setup?

WGH

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #23 on: 17 Nov 2022, 11:43 pm »

these Liquids at this price seem too good to be true.

I have heard Klaus' speakers many times, his price/performance ratio is off the charts. The Music Room is an A++ reseller, I have bought from them a couple of times, everything is exactly as represented, shipping is super quick in bullet proof packaging. The price is right in line with used speakers with slight damage. If I already didn't have Salk speakers that work perfectly in my room I would have bought these days ago. Someone will get a terrific bargain.

whydontumarryit

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #24 on: 18 Nov 2022, 04:29 am »
I have heard Klaus' speakers many times, his price/performance ratio is off the charts. The Music Room is an A++ reseller, I have bought from them a couple of times, everything is exactly as represented, shipping is super quick in bullet proof packaging. The price is right in line with used speakers with slight damage. If I already didn't have Salk speakers that work perfectly in my room I would have bought these days ago. Someone will get a terrific bargain.

Does Salk make an identical looking speaker as the Liquid costing much more? (Song3 BeAT?)

qdrone

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #25 on: 18 Nov 2022, 04:55 am »
I love my  Liquids,worth  every penny and Klaus threw in all up grades for free.

whydontumarryit

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #26 on: 18 Nov 2022, 07:04 am »
I love my  Liquids,worth  every penny and Klaus threw in all up grades for free.
Cool. What is the size of your room? I'm concerned that the in room response may have a huge peak of 20db at 30 or 40 hz from Klaus' description of the soundstage layering being in multiple levels so I assume he means that extra depth coming from behind the front wall. I don't want those room modes excited to the extent that it's unlistenable at high volumes or an endless confrontation with room treatments is necessary.

thanks

klaus@odyssey

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #27 on: 18 Nov 2022, 04:11 pm »


Post deleted for me being a smart-ass towards whydon't....

qdrone

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #28 on: 18 Nov 2022, 04:28 pm »
25 by 20 approximate. I crank mine on occasion  but there is no need. The detail from my system is intoxicating. Analog or digital these speakers deliver. Played Midnight Oil on vinyl for a friend yesterday,a talkative chap, but he sat in the perch silent taking it all in stunned. I too have a Hana Umami red, great cartridge.
Beside sound the kicker for me was The Liquids are 4ohm. This means that i would not have to buy another amp, another power chord, another set of interconnects. I saved 1000's because my 100 watt per channel Modified Plinius drives these Speakers to heaven and back.
« Last Edit: 18 Nov 2022, 08:41 pm by qdrone »

WGH

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #29 on: 18 Nov 2022, 07:58 pm »
Does Salk make an identical looking speaker as the Liquid costing much more? (Song3 BeAT?)

No. I think you are comparing the price of used Liquids to a new Salk Song3 BeAT.

Klaus said the Liquid price is $5900 in the CAF video (1st post in this thread) . More reviews on the Odyssey website:
https://odysseyaudio.com/audio-shows/

If you think the Liquids at TMR are too cheap you can offer to pay them more.

Tyson

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #30 on: 18 Nov 2022, 09:10 pm »

Post deleted for me being a smart-ass towards whydon't....

To be fair I think he might have been drunk-posting, which seems to be happening more and more frequently.  And I say that as a former drunk-poster myself.

Loki57

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #31 on: 18 Nov 2022, 09:18 pm »
Yeah but Klaus doesn't drink

Tyson

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #32 on: 18 Nov 2022, 10:58 pm »
Yeah but Klaus doesn't drink

I meant that whydontyoumarryit was drunk posting, not Klaus.

Letitroll98

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #33 on: 19 Nov 2022, 12:22 pm »
Hey,
I’m not sure where the confusion is coming from, not in your post but in some of the others. The main ‘unconventional’ thing about this setup is how far out into the room the speakers are. I didn’t measure but they looked almost at the half-way point, not quite, but close. Speakers at least 10’ apart, again, I didn’t get a tape measure out but they were probably north of 10’, not south. Then I may have misremembered what Klaus told me about the distance to the chair. I said 90% in the original post, I now think he said 80%. Klaus will surely stop by and clarify this point when he’s back in town.

So this is NOT the “Rooze” setup that you mentioned in your post. I came up with that setup over a decade ago and talked about it over on Audio Asylum, and as you say, it involved a listening chair on the same line as the speakers, or actually a little farther back, and was more specific to a dipole like a Magnepan.

So, Klaus took advantage of having a large room and pulling the speakers and the chair well away from boundaries to minimize room interaction. Even with the speakers firing straight ahead, as they were (almost, perhaps as little as 5 degrees of toe-in), with the dispersion pattern from the drivers you’re still sitting in the direct sound field. You are NOT sitting out of the direct sound field listening to room reflections as the primary sound field as one does (to some extent) with the old “Rooze” setup from way back when.

Hope that clarifies things a little.

Rooze

Thanks for the reply, somehow I missed it until this morning.  It now makes sense.  Klaus has always used this or a similar set up at shows to good effect.

I wondered if you were "that" rooze.  Thanks for your efforts, it provided months of fun exploring placement with my Maggies.

JMW73

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #34 on: 19 Nov 2022, 02:54 pm »
My room is in a bit of a disarray right now, so it's a good time to experiment...  Also talked to Klaus about some unrelated things and one of the first things he said (I had sent him a picture) was to pull out my speakers.

I started playing with this last night.  I pulled my speakers out and took some REW measurements to see if I was on the right track.  Took a listen, and there wasn't a HUGE difference, but there was a noticeable difference for the better.  My speakers had previously been just under 2' from the back wall, and I was out to 4-4.5'  The biggest difference was less sibilance and harshness on top.  Soundstage opened, but only slightly.  And all this without losing any bass response.

Rocket_Ronny mentions 5' as the magic point for the delay to the back wall... so I changed to longer speaker wires, moved the rug and kept going!  Once I got to 5' (which doesn't sound like a lot, really, but with an 18" deep speaker that takes a lot of real estate) something different happened, the bass was noticeably tighter but not as present and overall dynamics felt lacking.  Took a REW measurement and couldn't believe that it looked basically the same.  I thought for sure there would be a marked difference on the sub 100hz curve and there was not.  Now, I have subs (which were off) so the amount of bass is a non-factor, but the overall dynamics are!  So I'm going to play around with some smaller moves (see next paragraphs) to fine tune this.

I was trained by Sumiko in the MASTERS set years and years ago.  This has always been my basis for how I place my speakers.  I am always learning more and more, though, so I'm smashing techniques together here.  One of the main tenets of the MASTERS set is to slowly move the speaker into the room until the amount of bass increases.  The theory being that this is a mode and has "energized" the speaker and the rest of the frequency range will likely follow.  It DOES acknowledge that some modes are better than others but there are no measuring devices used so it is all based on listening.  Anyone can do it, and you can tailor the placement to the demands and limitations of the room and family (did someone say WAF?).  There is way more to it, but this post is about placement from the back wall so I'm limiting info to that.

So, rather than starting against the back wall because 1) my speakers like to be at least 18" away anyway, and 2) following the advice of this thread I'm looking at being at least 3.5' and possibly 5' plus.  In addition, I can stop and easily do a REW measurement at any point to make sure I'm not in an antimode sucking frequency response out.  So. I'm going to hover around that 5' mark +/-, make small movements, do some listening, and take some measurements, and see how this turns out.  I'll have to move some furniture and the rug to accomplish this so it'll be a process.  I'll update here!

whydontumarryit

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #35 on: 19 Nov 2022, 06:39 pm »

Post deleted for me being a smart-ass towards whydon't....
No problem Klaus, you're obviously passionate about the product. Now, about those FR measurements. Do you have any?

klaus@odyssey

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #36 on: 19 Nov 2022, 08:20 pm »
Nope......

I have used formulas,  test and measuring equipment etc in the past and what I found that works best for me is that I'm using only the finest one available to me.....my own 2 ears.   I'm doing this for so long now and yes,  I've gotten to be excellent at this and trust myself in setups in  that I know when it's "there"     ...   that also meant that Thursday night / Friday morning I had to lift those 160 lbs $^%&$^%$#^%^&E$^     probably 15 + times on/ and off the platforms,   but it worked really,  really well.........


If ,  however,  you want a measuring / mathematical formula etc.  out of the dozens of different suggestions out there,  then I find it most important to eliminate the first and 2nd wave reflections as much as possible...the extreme nearfield setup of mine does that,  but in general do this:

measure the room long ways...then position the front of the tweeter 1/3rd,  1/5th,  1/7th,  or 1/9th  of the length of the room  to the rear wall......

works most times.


And yes,  most of the times I don't give a shit about math,  measurements,  "scientifically proven"  methods etc.......

JMW73

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Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #37 on: 23 Nov 2022, 02:33 pm »
I think I've found my spot!

I played around the other night in the 3.5 - 4.5' away from the wall.  I figured if I could find a spot, that would use a little less real estate in the room.  Coming forward pushes the loveseat on the side of the room back further and further.  I thought I had a spot, everything sounded good; good dynamics and smooth but nice bass response.  Until I listened to "Ride Across the River" by Dire Straits.  I've listened to this album for years and years.  The bass guitar and kick drum have some very distinct sounds... where I had the speakers they were indistinct and somewhat lifeless.  Back to the drawing board.

So, last night I relented and moved them up to 5' from the back wall.  Had to rearrange the room to make it work, and just went ahead and did that so all furniture was where it was going to be.  I did some calculations and found that this happens to put my tweeters at 1/5 the length of the room.  Here's the trick though; as mentioned before, you can't just place them by measuring and expect them to magically perform.  I had to bump them out a little bit... it was about 1.5 more inches and I found the spot where they interacted with the room correctly.  I did all this by listening, but I was curious and took a REW measurement and found the flattest response I've ever gotten in my room!  That confirmed that I was on to something.  I still need to dial in the subs, but I did some listening and found a very extended and tight bass response.  A lot of people would be happy with this with no subs.  The amazing thing is, the most noticeable change was the smoothness in the treble.  Gone was any harshness or sibilance.  Details are very present but they actually sound like the silk dome tweeter they are.  I must have been getting a lot of rear wall reflections and maybe corner loading.  In any case, it helped a ton.

Eduardo AAVM

Re: Odyssey / Symphonic Line at CAF 2022 - Out of this world!
« Reply #38 on: 25 Nov 2022, 11:31 pm »
Congrats !

20+ years and always praised for his outsantding rooms, wheter they pack a 5000 system or multi thousand bucks one!